28 replies to this topic

[magrus]

I take it with Piracetam and they seem to work well together. No "Eureka!" factor though, the effect is subtle.

[magrus]

I haven't taken it long enough, a month or so. Piracetam I started about a year ago and have been taking it on and off, sometimes skipping a week or two but that's about it. Picamilone and sulbutiamine have to be cycled but there are different opinions as far as racetams go. Experimenting and seeing what works for you is probably the way to go.

Best of luck.

[Centurion]

I like centro. While it is subtle, if I take enough of it I notice a definite kick!

[nancy_axel]

What are people's opinions here on centrophenoxine as a nootropic? Any positive or negative experiences? I am not currently taking any nootropics but I'm considering adding centro and/or piracetam to my supplement regime. Any opinions or suggestions? I am fairly sharp as it is, but I need some extra reserves of mental energy since I have some major intellectual mountains to scale over the next year or so. I am looking for something that is relatively safe and doesn't get me (too) wired. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I found centro to be an incredibly potent memory enhancer. The problem that I've noticed is that if I eat or drink after having the centro, I notice the centro wearing away. I am also susceptible to mental fog sometimes.

My stack includes 100 mg huperzine, centro and deprenyl.

[nancy_axel]

Centro vs DMAE .. Why is it that DMAE is touted to combat anxiety and depression while Centro (which has DMAE as a major component) has a warning that it may cause Depression and Anxiety? As far as I'm concerned .. these 2 are identical molecules although centro can traverse the blood brain barrier and has a few more potent effects .. couldn't you just scale back the centro?

[Mr.Bananas]

Centro vs DMAE .. Why is it that DMAE is touted to combat anxiety and depression while Centro (which has DMAE as a major component) has a warning that it may cause Depression and Anxiety? As far as I'm concerned .. these 2 are identical molecules although centro can traverse the blood brain barrier and has a few more potent effects .. couldn't you just scale back the centro?

They arent identical
centro:


DMAE:


So a different effect is expected.

[Pike]

I just found this somewhat alarming tid-bit of research on centrophenoxine.

Long-term administration of centrophenoxine and cleregil was found to exert on rats the antiamnestic and anxiogenic-like effects, to increase emotional reactivity and aggressiveness, to reduce motor activity and readiness to contact. The withdrawal of centrophenoxine and especially cleregil was followed by still greater enhancement of emotional reactivity and the appearance of spontaneous aggressiveness

http://www.biomedexp...d_long-term_use

[conradshark]

The drug Centrophenoxine has played a central role in many antiaging experiments. Scientific experiments have proven the free radical scavenging properties of DMAE. It should be stressed that this part of Centrophenoxine is actually incorporated into the brain cell membrane. The presence of DMAE in the brain cell membrane provides increased protection against damaging free radical attacks. The present findings offer strong evidence supporting the observation that vital membranes are protected during continuous treatment with Centrophenoxine. The other compound in Centrophenoxine also is a powerful free radical scavenger, although probably not as important as the DMAE portion. The combined effect of both parts of the drug prevents free radical induced aging damage and improves the body's defence against free radical attack.

Dosage
Elderly people with significant intellectual decline/ may need three to six 250mg tablets per day taken preferably with breakfast and lunch, in order to avoid insomnia. Healthy younger people may need only one or two 250mg tablets daily with breakfast or lunch. To avoid any slight acetylcholine excess occurring, it is wise take occasional breaks from dosage (say, one day a week).

[ta5]

A new article on DMAE:

Drug' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://pmid.us/22300295']Drug Metab Lett. 2012 Feb 2. [Epub ahead of print]
New insights on Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) features as a free radical scavenger.
Malanga G, Aguiar MB, Martinez HD, Puntarulo S.

Source
Fisicoquímica, Facultad de Farmacia y Bioquímica, Junín 956, 1113 Buenos Aires, Argentina. susanap@ffyb.uba.ar.

Abstract
Recently, a number of synthetic drugs used in a variety of therapeutic indications have been reported to have antiaging effects. Among them, Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE), an anologue of dietylaminoethanol, is a precursor of choline, which in turn allows the brain to optimize the production of acetylcholine that is a primary neurotransmitter involved in learning and memory. The data presented here includes new information on the ability of the compound to scavenge specific free radicals, assessed by Electron Spectroscopic Resonance (EPR), to further analyze the role of DMAE as an antioxidant. DMAE ability to directly react with hydroxyl, ascorbyl and lipid radicals was tested employing in vitro assays, and related to the supplemented dose of the compound.
PMID: 22300295

→ source (external link)

[Baten]

I love centro. Works much better than choline. I guess I should take breaks though, since above post warns above emotional instability/agression.

[Junk Master]

I vastly prefer it to any choline source I've tried, and to DMAE. What's the most anyone here has taken? A tablespoon?

[Baten]

I vastly prefer it to any choline source I've tried, and to DMAE. What's the most anyone here has taken? A tablespoon?

When mixing lots of racetams I take 1g of centro.

[solarfingers]

I take 500mg of Centro with ALCAR and Piracetam and my brain has moved from 5 miles to 50 miles per hour. I have a hard time sleeping because I'm thinking so much.

[jolly]

I love centro.

[jly1986]

I've been taking centro with Noopept for a couple of months now. The thing about centro is that it definitely builds up to a point that causes me to get depressed. I've learned, though, when I feel the onset of depression, I simply stop taking centro for a day or two, and after my mood recovers, I can start taking it again. Same thing happens to me when I take too much of the B-complex vitamins.

As for the positives, yes, centro does give me a noticeable boost in sensory experience, and it goes well with Noopept.

[jly1986]

By the way, if anyone else has had similar experiences with centro or B causing depression and figured out an effective remedy against the supplement-induced depression, please share what helped. Thanks.

[solarfingers]

By the way, if anyone else has had similar experiences with centro or B causing depression and figured out an effective remedy against the supplement-induced depression, please share what helped. Thanks.

I must be on the upside of Centro because I am in an annoyingly great mood. Annoying to everyone else I mean! If you are experiencing depression it could be that you are loosing dopamine somehow. You could try L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine as they help you maintain a healthy level of dopamine. Also, SAMe has great benefits of which one is an elevated mood.

Edited by solarfingers, 24 June 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[jly1986]

By the way, if anyone else has had similar experiences with centro or B causing depression and figured out an effective remedy against the supplement-induced depression, please share what helped. Thanks.

I must be on the upside of Centro because I am in an annoyingly great mood. Annoying to everyone else I mean! If you are experiencing depression it could be that you are loosing dopamine somehow. You could try L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine as they help you maintain a healthy level of dopamine. Also, SAMe has great benefits of which one is an elevated mood.

Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah, it's a real bummer when I can't experience the full benefits of a powerful noot like centro due to rate-limiting depression. I will try your suggestions and see if they help. Thanks again!

[solarfingers]

One is happy to serve.

[Dissolvedissolve]

I take 500mg of Centro with ALCAR and Piracetam and my brain has moved from 5 miles to 50 miles per hour. I have a hard time sleeping because I'm thinking so much.

I must be on the upside of Centro because I am in an annoyingly great mood. Annoying to everyone else I mean!

Not to be too alarmist, as you might be totally fine, but pressured thoughts, difficulty sleeping, and elevated mood are signs of hypomania. You might want to lower your dosage slightly - racetams can occasionally precipitate hypomania.

Edited by Dissolvedissolve, 24 June 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[solarfingers]

This is the level of racetams I have been taking for over six months. The only change is the Centro. Do you suspect that this might still be hypomania? I am not familiar with the subject but I'm definitely going to look it up.

[solarfingers]

"Hypomania (literally, "below mania") is a mood state characterized by persistent and pervasive elevated (euphoric) or irritable mood, as well as thoughts and behaviors that are consistent with such a mood state. It is most often associated with the bipolar spectrum. Many who are in a hypomanic state are extremely energetic, talkative, confident, and assertive. They may have a flight of ideas and feel creative. Many people also experience signature hypersexuality. While hypomania often generates productivity and creativity, it can become troublesome if the subject engages in risky behaviors. It is generally less severe than full-blown mania."

Well my good mood is either because of physiological changes due to the Centro or it has more to do with my overall outlook right now. I'm not sure. I am naturally a creative person so it would be hard to tell otherwise. I have about the same swing of moods as most people however so I don't think I'm bipolar... at least not yet. I've only been on Centro for three days. Lets give it a wait and see.

[jly1986]

By the way, if anyone else has had similar experiences with centro or B causing depression and figured out an effective remedy against the supplement-induced depression, please share what helped. Thanks.

I must be on the upside of Centro because I am in an annoyingly great mood. Annoying to everyone else I mean! If you are experiencing depression it could be that you are loosing dopamine somehow. You could try L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine as they help you maintain a healthy level of dopamine. Also, SAMe has great benefits of which one is an elevated mood.

I forgot to ask ... should I take both L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine together, or one or the other?

Thanks!

Also, any recommendations regarding dosage of L-Phenylalanine and/or L-Tyrosine?

[solarfingers]

I take them together 500 mg each in the morning. I can say that I have a very level mood on them... You should read up on them and make your own decision to take them. Never just take anyone's word for it... Unless it's your Mum.

[dav345]

I take them together 500 mg each in the morning. I can say that I have a very level mood on them... You should read up on them and make your own decision to take them. Never just take anyone's word for it... Unless it's your Mum.

 

I recommend around 500 mg of phenylethylamine.  It HAS to be taken with an MAOI inhibitor to work.  Hordenine is a crude sacrificial MAOI, taken at 30 mg dosages 30 minutes before taking the phenylethylamine dose.  Selgiline at 5-10 mg per day is best, if you can get it (not hard).  Tyrosine isn't necessary if you are taking phenylethylamine and an MAOI inhibitor.  Phenylethylamine will stimulate you and make you feel good because it acts like a stimulant by boosting dopamine.  It only lasts around 1.5-2 hours before you have to re-dose, though.  It works best on an empty stomach, and remember to stay very well hydrated if you want to continue feeling good (dopamine is dehydrating).