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Maximizing Resveratrol Effectiveness


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#331 ilanso

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 08:20 AM

A typical value for a drug with a permeation enhancer might be 0.1 to 100. 10 is reasonable for a guesstimate, so if the area was 100 cm**2, the flux would be 1mg per hour

As per above, Niner's transdermal flux guess of 10 micrograms per square centimeter per hour translates to 1mg per hour for an area of 10 by 10 cm (forearm). One obvious way to improve on this is to increase the application surface area. Skin is our largest organ, at a bit less than 2 square meters (or 20,000 cm2) providing a 200-fold real estate reserve. Now I am not advocating keeping a jacuzzi full of DMSO+resv at the ready for twice a day quick skinny dippings (although, if you can afford it...). Instead, using a premixed adequate (just enough for saturation) amount in a bottle with a fine spray nozzle right after the morning shower (from neck to toes) may do the trick. Well, it may help to wait until most moisture is out of the skin (or dry off by using a hair dryer). Experimenting with quantities may then come down to choosing the treated proportion of the body. If deliberately done over minutes, this technique can provide an amount of staggering (much like CD laddering in a portfolio) sufficient to ensure a transient steady flow.

#332 missminni

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 02:21 PM


good morning
While you were all theorizing
about the effectiveness, or lack of, of cutaneous application of Res/DMSO
I had the best night sleep I've had in a loooong time. I don't know if it's
coincidence or not, but the DMSO seems to be helping me sleep, and stay asleep.
Also, I will tell you that since using Res cutaneously, I notice marked improvement
in strength, endurance and mood. Much more than when I was just doing it orally.
I know most posters here have a science or math background and I respect that.
I don't think what I am going to say is in conflict with it, but some might think so.
Here goes.
I think one element that you seem to overlook is the one of belief. What one believes
can often be the most important factor. To my way of thinking, and I think this is backed up by science, our thoughts,
more than anything (except a bullet to the head), control our health. I believe that thoughts
influence our hormone production and hormones are basically what determine our
health, mental and physical. Simply put - mind over matter. (I guess you all might call that the placebo effect?)
That, to me, is the most important element of all. If I were a scientist,
that would be my field of interest. Faith is the most amazing medicine. Don't worry, I'm not
going to preach.

Now I hope some of you will try the cutaneous application and do blood work to find out
exactly what is getting through. If you find out that NONE is getting through, it will only
go to further support my belief, but something tells me you are going to be very pleasantly
surprised.

ETA~

ilanso: As per above, Niner's transdermal flux guess of 10 micrograms per square centimeter per hour translates to 1mg per hour for an area of 10 by 10 cm (forearm). One obvious way to improve on this is to increase the application surface area. Skin is our largest organ, at a bit less than 2 square meters (or 20,000 cm2) providing a 200-fold real estate reserve. Now I am not advocating keeping a jacuzzi full of DMSO+resv at the ready for twice a day quick skinny dippings (although, if you can afford it...). Instead, using a premixed adequate (just enough for saturation) amount in a bottle with a fine spray nozzle right after the morning shower (from neck to toes) may do the trick. Well, it may help to wait until most moisture is out of the skin (or dry off by using a hair dryer). Experimenting with quantities may then come down to choosing the treated proportion of the body. If deliberately done over minutes, this technique can provide an amount of staggering (much like CD laddering in a portfolio) sufficient to ensure a transient steady flow.


The only problem with this is that DMSO does cause bad breath and body odor. At the rate you are suggesting using it, you would not be able to
leave your house. That's why I'm trying to use as little as possible. I noticed the odor when I first used it liberally. Not pleasant. Perhaps the odor
could be mitigated with something. That I don't know.

PS
I see here that Dr. Jacobs has a product that addresses the issue of odor:
https://jacoblab.com...MSODusaSAL.html

DUSA SAL is DMSO gel enhanced with oil of wintergreen for reduced skin irritation and odor.

However, I must add that when I spoke with him on the phone, he did not recommend it. In fact he said the gel compounds were
not as effective in transport as was the liquid. I'm thinking maybe one could take a chlorophyll tablet to mitigate the odor.

Edited by missminni, 01 December 2007 - 02:57 PM.


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#333 VP.

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 04:08 PM

Maxwatt,
To Max or anyone who has arthritis would you consider using DMSO/resveratrol directly to the hands or feet and report if it makes any difference with your condition? Kudos to Missminni for her brave and hopefully wise self experimentation. : )

#334 maxwatt

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 04:57 PM

Maxwatt,
To Max or anyone who has arthritis would you consider using DMSO/resveratrol directly to the hands or feet and report if it makes any difference with your condition? Kudos to Missminni for her brave and hopefully wise self experimentation. : )


My order has been shipped. I will let you know in a week or two when I've had a chance to try it.

#335 ilanso

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 05:41 PM

3/8ml to fully dissolve the 100mg dose
......
Instead, using a premixed adequate (just enough for saturation) amount in a bottle with a fine spray nozzle right after the morning shower (from neck to toes) may do the trick.

I didn't say increase the amount; just the area of application of the said 3/8ml: use a fine mist to spread yourself too thin. It's like going in parallel vs series: there will be more pores to suck it in at the same time, increasing the transport speed.
But then again, in your case, this may not be necessary. Just will it in will do. :biggrin:

#336 missminni

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 06:27 PM

3/8ml to fully dissolve the 100mg dose
......
Instead, using a premixed adequate (just enough for saturation) amount in a bottle with a fine spray nozzle right after the morning shower (from neck to toes) may do the trick.

I didn't say increase the amount; just the area of application of the said 3/8ml: use a fine mist to spread yourself too thin. It's like going in parallel vs series: there will be more pores to suck it in at the same time, increasing the transport speed.
But then again, in your case, this may not be necessary. Just will it in will do. :biggrin:



I actually did that....increased the area of application.
As far as willing it in, I'm working on it. :wink:


#337 missminni

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:09 AM


I had two nosebleeds today. I haven't had a nosebleed in the two weeks since I started
hi dose res. I used to have them often.
I suspected the DMSO I just started using
as being the culprit.
It seemed logical, especially since I used a much larger amount earlier today
than I did yesterday. I did a google for nosebleeds and DMSO and came up
with this comment from a horse racing forum. I wanted to warn everyone
before they jump on the DMSO bandwagon. Maybe I just used too much today, or
maybe it's a cumulative effect. I hope I just took too much, because I really like it.
http://www.chronicle...hp/t-35234.html

People also don't like hearing what the "L" next to the name of every single horse in a race means. It's little consolation that there's a medication for lung hemorrhages - any caring person would say, and rightfully so, that so many horses shouldn't be bleeding in the first place! (I've even seen first-time starters on Lasix.) Obviously something is wrong. Del Castillo has taken horses off the bleeders' list simply by giving them some R&R in the pasture, allowing their lungs to heal themselves. Interestingly, she also notes that MSM/DMSO could possibly be a cause of bleeding. She was instructed to give a certain dosage of DMSO to a filly she was training. She did exactly as she was told. At the same time, a friend of hers was suffering knee pain, and decided to try DMSO on himself. As soon as he began taking the DMSO, he began having massive nosebleeds that often required him to go to the hospital. He stopped the DMSO, and the nosebleeds stopped. He resumed taking the DMSO, and the nosebleeds resumed. Meanwhile, the filly on DMSO was galloped, and bled. Still on DMSO, she was given Lasix, and she bled through it. Pure coincidence? I think not. It's happened all too often that medications and remedies had to be recalled, or at least warned against, after enjoying enormous popularity, because not enough studies had been done on it initially to realize there were serious side effects.

It must be an anti-coagulant. Like garlic.

Edited by missminni, 02 December 2007 - 01:14 AM.


#338 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:57 AM


I had two nosebleeds today. I haven't had a nosebleed in the two weeks since I started
hi dose res. I used to have them often.
I suspected the DMSO I just started using
as being the culprit.
It seemed logical, especially since I used a much larger amount earlier today
than I did yesterday. I did a google for nosebleeds and DMSO and came up
with this comment from a horse racing forum. I wanted to warn everyone
before they jump on the DMSO bandwagon. Maybe I just used too much today, or
maybe it's a cumulative effect. I hope I just took too much, because I really like it.
http://www.chronicle...hp/t-35234.html

People also don't like hearing what the "L" next to the name of every single horse in a race means. It's little consolation that there's a medication for lung hemorrhages - any caring person would say, and rightfully so, that so many horses shouldn't be bleeding in the first place! (I've even seen first-time starters on Lasix.) Obviously something is wrong. Del Castillo has taken horses off the bleeders' list simply by giving them some R&R in the pasture, allowing their lungs to heal themselves. Interestingly, she also notes that MSM/DMSO could possibly be a cause of bleeding. She was instructed to give a certain dosage of DMSO to a filly she was training. She did exactly as she was told. At the same time, a friend of hers was suffering knee pain, and decided to try DMSO on himself. As soon as he began taking the DMSO, he began having massive nosebleeds that often required him to go to the hospital. He stopped the DMSO, and the nosebleeds stopped. He resumed taking the DMSO, and the nosebleeds resumed. Meanwhile, the filly on DMSO was galloped, and bled. Still on DMSO, she was given Lasix, and she bled through it. Pure coincidence? I think not. It's happened all too often that medications and remedies had to be recalled, or at least warned against, after enjoying enormous popularity, because not enough studies had been done on it initially to realize there were serious side effects.

It must be an anti-coagulant. Like garlic.



It's probably the resveratrol.

here is a study regarding resveratrol platelet aggregation. I believe it states here that it was found to be more potent than aspirin... (page 3)

http://64.233.179.10...l anticoagulant


This comes from a PDF that doesnt appear to be available now, but google had a copy.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 December 2007 - 04:00 AM.


#339 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:09 AM

DMSO and Resveratrol inhibits Athletes foot...

From:
http://www.sciencedi...345b16650b38c0f

The phytoalexin resveratrol is commonly found in food and drinks, including red wine, grapes, and peanuts. Many studies have shown that this compound has anti-inflammatory properties, and it has been ascribed as having health benefits that help to prevent cancer and coronary heart disease. A treatment that combines antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory actions may be desirable for alleviating many skin conditions that range in severity. Therefore, we evaluated the antimicrobial activity of resveratrol against bacteria and dermatophytes that are major etiologic agents of human skin infections. Using the broth microdilution protocol of the National Committee for Clinical Laboratory Standards (NCCLS) M7-A5, growth of the bacterial species Staphylococcus aureus, Enterococcus faecalis, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa was inhibited at 171–342 μg/mL of resveratrol in the solvent dimethyl sulfoxide. Using the NCCLS protocol M38-P, activity against the fungal species Trichophyton mentagrophytes, Trichophyton tonsurans, Trichophyton rubrum, Epidermophyton floccosum, and Microsporum gypseum was also tested. The growth of dermatophytes was inhibited at 25–50 μg/mL of resveratrol. Thus, this study indicates a novel application for resveratrol, a molecule of plant defense, to combat human fungal pathogens. Resveratrol and its analogs may have wide application to skin conditions that afflict a significant portion of our population, and may also have promising clinical potentials in diabetic wounds.



I think I know where on my body I will start taking this combination now...

:tung:

A

#340 missminni

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:14 AM


I had two nosebleeds today. I haven't had a nosebleed in the two weeks since I started
hi dose res. I used to have them often.
I suspected the DMSO I just started using
as being the culprit.
It seemed logical, especially since I used a much larger amount earlier today
than I did yesterday. I did a google for nosebleeds and DMSO and came up
with this comment from a horse racing forum. I wanted to warn everyone
before they jump on the DMSO bandwagon. Maybe I just used too much today, or
maybe it's a cumulative effect. I hope I just took too much, because I really like it.
http://www.chronicle...hp/t-35234.html

People also don't like hearing what the "L" next to the name of every single horse in a race means. It's little consolation that there's a medication for lung hemorrhages - any caring person would say, and rightfully so, that so many horses shouldn't be bleeding in the first place! (I've even seen first-time starters on Lasix.) Obviously something is wrong. Del Castillo has taken horses off the bleeders' list simply by giving them some R&R in the pasture, allowing their lungs to heal themselves. Interestingly, she also notes that MSM/DMSO could possibly be a cause of bleeding. She was instructed to give a certain dosage of DMSO to a filly she was training. She did exactly as she was told. At the same time, a friend of hers was suffering knee pain, and decided to try DMSO on himself. As soon as he began taking the DMSO, he began having massive nosebleeds that often required him to go to the hospital. He stopped the DMSO, and the nosebleeds stopped. He resumed taking the DMSO, and the nosebleeds resumed. Meanwhile, the filly on DMSO was galloped, and bled. Still on DMSO, she was given Lasix, and she bled through it. Pure coincidence? I think not. It's happened all too often that medications and remedies had to be recalled, or at least warned against, after enjoying enormous popularity, because not enough studies had been done on it initially to realize there were serious side effects.

It must be an anti-coagulant. Like garlic.



It's probably the resveratrol.

here is a study regarding resveratrol platelet aggregation. I believe it states here that it was found to be more potent than aspirin... (page 3)

http://64.233.179.10...l anticoagulant


This comes from a PDF that doesnt appear to be available now, but google had a copy.

A



Except that I was doing Res and it stopped my nosebleeds. maybe when I did it cutaneously more got into my bloodstream?
The first 2 days when I did the DSMO, I was very modertate and used very little DMSO. However, this morning, inspired by ilanso's
post about increasing the application over more body surface, I went overboard. I probably used 5 or 6 times the amount I used yesterday. I think its just an issue of excess.


#341 niner

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 05:29 AM

growth of dermatophytes was inhibited at 25–50 μg/mL of resveratrol

That's about 100-200 uM. As a topical solution, it really might work. Orally, probably not. Don't forget Tough Actin' Tinactin...

#342 niner

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 05:32 AM

Maxwatt,
To Max or anyone who has arthritis would you consider using DMSO/resveratrol directly to the hands or feet and report if it makes any difference with your condition? Kudos to Missminni for her brave and hopefully wise self experimentation. : )


My order has been shipped. I will let you know in a week or two when I've had a chance to try it.

Maxwatt, could you try pure DMSO first? It's supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties by itself, right?

#343 sUper GeNius

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:49 AM

What about sublingual delivery. Isn't that a much faster method? I am think of nitro sublingual. T-res is soluble in ethanol at 50mg/ml. So, put a few ml of alchohol/t-res mix under the tongue ought to be many times better than this DMSO on the skin thing, no?

#344 sUper GeNius

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 07:44 AM

Can anyone use this data to think of a way for sublingual t-res administration? Does not this data suggest that amounts of at least 200mg may in theory be absobed under the tongue? The fentanyl used here was 200mg.

http://www.drugdeliv...cgi?idArticle=5

#345 sUper GeNius

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 09:01 AM

Can anyone use this data to think of a way for sublingual t-res administration? Does not this data suggest that amounts of at least 200mg may in theory be absobed under the tongue? The fentanyl used here was 200mg.

http://www.drugdeliv...cgi?idArticle=5


What about ethanol/mirilax slurry? Can it be made thick enought to saty under the tongue? If t-res is soluble at a rate of 50mg/ml, that would be about 4ml of ethanol to get a nice first-pass avoiding dose of 200mg t-res. What do you all think?

Edited by tobar8, 02 December 2007 - 09:33 AM.


#346 maxwatt

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:00 PM

Maxwatt,
To Max or anyone who has arthritis would you consider using DMSO/resveratrol directly to the hands or feet and report if it makes any difference with your condition? Kudos to Missminni for her brave and hopefully wise self experimentation. : )


My order has been shipped. I will let you know in a week or two when I've had a chance to try it.

Maxwatt, could you try pure DMSO first? It's supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties by itself, right?


That my plan. Also, the solubility of resveratrol in DMSO is given as 16 g/l, so a 30 ml bottle, in a 70% solution of DMSO in water such as I will use (fewer chance of side effects that pure DMSO) so I assume a 30 ml bottle should hold (.7*16mg * 30) = 336. I'll mix in a little less, say 300 mg. Then one dropper-full, which holds 1ml, will administer 10 mg. Two years ago we would have thought this was a huge amount. Since we are bypassing first-pass liver metabolism it should be the equivalent of much more. I also think that tissue lipids will take up resvratrol, so not all of it will go into circulation. This is perhaps desirable for administering to the site of inflammation, so we'll see.

The discrepancy between this amount, and what Missminni self-administered by applying it to her skin where it had been sprayed with a 70/30 DMSO/water mix does not agree with the calculated amount of resveratrol that will dissolve in DMSO. Either she was mistaken as to the amount she used, or more resveratrol was delivered than the calculation allows. I believe she is a competent observer; she stated she used 1/8 tsp. I have weighed this amount, and found it to fall between 100 and 250 mg, depending on clumping, packing, rounding, etc.

Either solubility is higher than the published 16 g/l, or something else is going on. I surmise that the DMSO on the surface of her skin acted as a port hole; the DMSO was taken up by lipids in her tissues, and the DMSO served as a pipeline through which she poured resveratrol into her body. This is something else for us to test.

We should all thank Missminni for getting us to reconsider DMSO. I am going to be careful to limit the amount I use to avoid nosebleed. Also, I take vitamin K, which should minimize bleeding.

TOBAR asked about sublingual administration
I looked into this previously. The buccal and sublingual mucosa will take up hydrophobic lipid substances, but the amount is limited by the surface area available, which is not much. The amount one can absorb this way is small, I recall on the order of 10 mg I did not pursue this further, but again there is a discrepancy between what I could absorb under my tongue, with a bit of alcoholic beverage in my mouth, and the theoretical limit. Was the alcohol soluble-izing the resveratrol, so a similar diffusion pump to what I hypothesized for missminni was at work? Or was I somehow swallowing the powder without noticing? (Unlikely, it was a lot of powder, but still possible.)

But to answer Tobar's quest and question for a sublingual delivery method: alcohol, both isopropyl and ethanol, is used in transdermal carriers. No doubt it enhances sublingual absorption. 30 ml, or one ounce, of spirits has been shown to be life-extending for men and women, and up to twice that for men. (Men have more alcohol dehydrogenase, it's genetic and unfair, but still some women can drink me under the table. It's the luck of the draw from the gene-pool.) So if you can tolerate alcoholic beverages, wthout a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism, the following should be feasible.

I think the simplest method of sublingual administration would be to put half a tsp of powdered resveratrol under your tongue --the 98% or more variety-- and sip a little vodka or other spirit-- suitably mixed with water say, so the concentration doesn't hurt you mouth -- and just hold the liquid in your mouh as long as you can. Take another sip, and repeat until the bolus of resveratrol under your tongue is gone. To be sure, you will have swallowed some, but I think you will have gotten as much sublingually as is possible.

#347 missminni

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:37 PM


The discrepancy between this amount, and what Missminni self-administered by applying it to her skin where it had been sprayed with a 70/30 DMSO/water mix does not agree with the calculated amount of resveratrol that will dissolve in DMSO. Either she was mistaken as to the amount she used, or more resveratrol was delivered than the calculation allows. I believe she is a competent observer; she stated she used 1/8 tsp. I have weighed this amount, and found it to fall between 100 and 250 mg, depending on clumping, packing, rounding, etc.

Either solubility is higher than the published 16 g/l, or something else is going on. I surmise that the DMSO on the surface of her skin acted as a port hole; the DMSO was taken up by lipids in her tissues, and the DMSO served as a pipeline through which she poured resveratrol into her body. This is something else for us to test.
We should all thank Missminni for getting us to reconsider DMSO. I am going to be careful to limit the amount I use to avoid nosebleed. Also, I take vitamin K, which should minimize bleeding.



I think this is what happened - I would spray DMSO in the crease where it could gather in a small pool and then put the powder on it. It didn't all disappear immediately, so I would spray another tiny spray, and rub the remaining clumped powder with my fingers and it would dissolve in.
Sometimes there was a light white powder residue on the edges, and I would get a little water and rub it and it would disappear. Now that I've
had the nose bleed, I might even try adding a little water to the DMSO so that I can use more solution without worrying.


TOBAR asked about sublingual administration
I think the simplest method of sublingual administration would be to put half a tsp of powdered resveratrol under your tongue --the 98% or more variety-- and sip a little vodka or other spirit-- suitably mixed with water say, so the concentration doesn't hurt you mouth -- and just hold the liquid in your mouh as long as you can. Take another sip, and repeat until the bolus of resveratrol under your tongue is gone. To be sure, you will have swallowed some, but I think you will have gotten as much sublingually as is possible.

would this method work with milk instead of alcohol?



#348 maxwatt

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 05:17 PM


I think the simplest method of sublingual administration would be to put half a tsp of powdered resveratrol under your tongue --the 98% or more variety-- and sip a little vodka or other spirit-- suitably mixed with water say, so the concentration doesn't hurt you mouth -- and just hold the liquid in your mouh as long as you can. Take another sip, and repeat until the bolus of resveratrol under your tongue is gone. To be sure, you will have swallowed some, but I think you will have gotten as much sublingually as is possible.

would this method work with milk instead of alcohol?


I don't think so. The resveratrol would dissolve, but bound to milk proteins I dont; think it would be absorbed.

#349 ilanso

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 05:40 PM

malbecman: I did a quick and dirty solubility check with DMSO since it is a polar solvent like water. I was wondering how much t-resveratrol would go into it and whether it would make an effective carrier if one wanted to use the transdermal route of absorption. 200mgs of 99% pure t-resveratrol would almost, but not quite, go into 500ul (1/2 milliliter) of 99.9% DMSO


which translates to 400mg/ml or 400g/l.
OTOH:

/

maxwatt: Either solubility is higher than the published 16 g/l, or something else is going on


Quite a large discrepancy, wouldn't you say?

#350 missminni

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 05:43 PM


I think the simplest method of sublingual administration would be to put half a tsp of powdered resveratrol under your tongue --the 98% or more variety-- and sip a little vodka or other spirit-- suitably mixed with water say, so the concentration doesn't hurt you mouth -- and just hold the liquid in your mouh as long as you can. Take another sip, and repeat until the bolus of resveratrol under your tongue is gone. To be sure, you will have swallowed some, but I think you will have gotten as much sublingually as is possible.

would this method work with milk instead of alcohol?


I don't think so. The resveratrol would dissolve, but bound to milk proteins I dont; think it would be absorbed.


Could you dilute the alcohol with water and remain as effective?

ETA~the nosebleeds didn't return. I used DMSO this AM (2 short sprays) and about 1/8th teaspoon of Res. I feel great, had an amazing workout
and no nosebleed.
Update on my Dad who had amazing results the first day of hi dosing (800 mg 2X a day).
The following day he decided to take a Vicadan and do a comparison test of his own design.
The vicadan, which kicked in within minutes, wore off real fast.
So then he does the res and does not get the quick result he got with the Vicadan and thinks it's not working.
So then the next day, he tried the res with vodka and I think he got sloshed. His words sounded slurred when I spoke with him, although he was adamant about only having used an ounce of gin, however it was 90 proof. He sounded confused so I told him not to use the gin.
let's see, okay so then yesterday he took
it by putting the powder in his mouth and washing it down with water. He said he did get relief from his arthritis, but not like the
first day. Then an order of R300 mistakenly came back to him, and he decided to keep it and try it.
He took 3 at one time yesterday afternoon, and had really bad laxative effect. It kept him up all night. But he did have
pain relief too. This morning he decided to take 1 R300 3 X a day with meals. That's his plan. So far so good. No runs and
decent pain relief.

Edited by missminni, 02 December 2007 - 06:09 PM.


#351 sUper GeNius

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:35 PM

Maxwatt wrote

TOBAR asked about sublingual administration
I looked into this previously. The buccal and sublingual mucosa will take up hydrophobic lipid substances, but the amount is limited by the surface area available, which is not much. The amount one can absorb this way is small, I recall on the order of 10 mg I did not pursue this further,


Maxwatt:

In this link the authors talk about sublingual delivery of **200mg** of Fentanyl, whcih is also lipid soluble. What also caught my eye is that the purpose was to create a "fast acting" method of the drug. Also discussed is how this delivery method avoids first pass liver metabolism. This all implies that sublingual delivery CAN in fact get into the blood stream quickly enough to avoid first pass liver conjugation, and that amounts of substance of at least 200mg can be done this way.

http://www.drugdeliv...cgi?idArticle=5

Can someone find any example of a transdermal delivery of medication that shows a quick delivery and avoidance of first pass metabolism?


Also some info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

I quote:

"Fentanyl lozenges (Actiq) are a solid formulation of fentanyl citrate on a stick in the form of a lollipop that dissolves slowly in the mouth for transmucosal absorption. These lozenges are intended for opioid-tolerant individuals and is effective in treating breakthrough cancer pain. It is also useful for breakthrough pain for those suffering bone injuries, severe back pain, neuropathy, arthritis, and some other examples of chronic nonmalignant pain. The unit is a berry-flavored lozenge on a stick which is swabbed on the mucosal surfaces inside the mouth—inside of the cheeks, under and on the tongue and gums—to release the fentanyl quickly into the system. It is most effective when the lozenge is consumed in 15 minutes. The drug is less effective if swallowed, as despite good absorbance from the small intestine there is extensive first pass metabolism, leading to an oral bioavailability of 33%. Fentanyl lozenges are available in six dosages, from 200 to 1600 µg in 200 µg increments (excluding 1000 µg and 1400 µg). These are now available in the United states in generic form,[1] through an FTC consent agreement.[2]
However, most patients find it takes 10-15 minutes to use all of one lozenge, and those with a dry mouth cannot use this route. In addition, nurses are unable to document how much of a lozenge has been used by a patient, making drug records inaccurate. The development of small fentanyl buccal pellets may be much more practical. These are effervescent tablets placed in the cheek and is absorbed through the buccal mucosa. One advantage of such tablets is claimed to be quicker absorption into the bloodstream at lower dosage levels."

Edited by tobar8, 02 December 2007 - 06:41 PM.


#352 bixbyte

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 08:07 PM

"Fentanyl lozenges (Actiq) are a solid formulation of fentanyl citrate on a stick in the form of a lollipop that dissolves slowly in the mouth for transmucosal absorption. These lozenges are intended for opioid-tolerant individuals and is effective in treating breakthrough cancer pain. It is also useful for breakthrough pain for those suffering bone injuries, severe back pain, neuropathy, arthritis, and some other examples of chronic nonmalignant pain. The unit is a berry-flavored lozenge on a stick which is swabbed on the mucosal surfaces inside the mouth—inside of the cheeks, under and on the tongue and gums—to release the fentanyl quickly into the system. It is most effective when the lozenge is consumed in 15 minutes. The drug is less effective if swallowed, as despite good absorbance from the small intestine there is extensive first pass metabolism, leading to an oral bioavailability of 33%. Fentanyl lozenges are available in six dosages, from 200 to 1600 µg in 200 µg increments (excluding 1000 µg and 1400 µg). These are now available in the United states in generic form,[1] through an FTC consent agreement.[2]
However, most patients find it takes 10-15 minutes to use all of one lozenge, and those with a dry mouth cannot use this route. In addition, nurses are unable to document how much of a lozenge has been used by a patient, making drug records inaccurate. The development of small fentanyl buccal pellets may be much more practical. These are effervescent tablets placed in the cheek and is absorbed through the buccal mucosa. One advantage of such tablets is claimed to be quicker absorption into the bloodstream at lower dosage levels."




What are the active/inactive ingredients in the fentanyl lozenges?
You could probably design a similar RSV lollipop that is PEG or Lipid based. :thumb:

#353 bixbyte

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 08:33 PM

I decided to do it both ways and get the benefit of both methods.
I take it once orally dissolved in milk,
and once cutaneously in DMSO.
For cutaneous application I spray one short spritz of DMSO - just one - in the crook of my
arm and sprinkle the powder (about 1/8th tsp which I
think is approx. 200 mg) over the oily skin and it dissolves by itself right into
the DMSO. Then I just rub it in.
With that small amount of DMSO, there is no aftertaste or odor.


Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

I will definately test your DMSO Resveratrol cutaneous delivery system.
Thank You So Much

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#354 sUper GeNius

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 08:48 PM

"Fentanyl lozenges (Actiq) are a solid formulation of fentanyl citrate on a stick in the form of a lollipop that dissolves slowly in the mouth for transmucosal absorption. These lozenges are intended for opioid-tolerant individuals and is effective in treating breakthrough cancer pain. It is also useful for breakthrough pain for those suffering bone injuries, severe back pain, neuropathy, arthritis, and some other examples of chronic nonmalignant pain. The unit is a berry-flavored lozenge on a stick which is swabbed on the mucosal surfaces inside the mouth—inside of the cheeks, under and on the tongue and gums—to release the fentanyl quickly into the system. It is most effective when the lozenge is consumed in 15 minutes. The drug is less effective if swallowed, as despite good absorbance from the small intestine there is extensive first pass metabolism, leading to an oral bioavailability of 33%. Fentanyl lozenges are available in six dosages, from 200 to 1600 µg in 200 µg increments (excluding 1000 µg and 1400 µg). These are now available in the United states in generic form,[1] through an FTC consent agreement.[2]
However, most patients find it takes 10-15 minutes to use all of one lozenge, and those with a dry mouth cannot use this route. In addition, nurses are unable to document how much of a lozenge has been used by a patient, making drug records inaccurate. The development of small fentanyl buccal pellets may be much more practical. These are effervescent tablets placed in the cheek and is absorbed through the buccal mucosa. One advantage of such tablets is claimed to be quicker absorption into the bloodstream at lower dosage levels."




What are the active/inactive ingredients in the fentanyl lozenges?
You could probably design a similar RSV lollipop that is PEG or Lipid based. :thumb:


http://www.actiq.com...sert_4_5_07.pdf

Hydrated dextrates, citric acid, (probably for taste,) dibasic sodium phosphate, magnesium stearate.

See sect 11, Description. I think that this method of delivery holds much more promise than the DMSO thing.

Edited by tobar8, 02 December 2007 - 08:48 PM.


#355 sUper GeNius

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 09:01 PM

Here are the search terms to use to see how to best deliver the t-res sublingually. There has to be someone here that can take this info and run with it. I wonder whther DMSO under the tongue might be a good idea? Would it still provide a quick delivery? I have read that t-res is soluble in DMSO at 15mg/ml, so for a 200mg does we would need about 13ml of DMSO.


BUCCAL DELIVERY


Edit:

It appears that chitosan would be helpful, as it increases oral membrane permeability and also acts as an adhesive. Cyclodextin seems useful as well.

Edited by tobar8, 02 December 2007 - 09:46 PM.


#356 bixbyte

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 02:06 AM

Here are the search terms to use to see how to best deliver the t-res sublingually. There has to be someone here that can take this info and run with it. I wonder whther DMSO under the tongue might be a good idea? Would it still provide a quick delivery? I have read that t-res is soluble in DMSO at 15mg/ml, so for a 200mg does we would need about 13ml of DMSO.


BUCCAL DELIVERY


Edit:

It appears that chitosan would be helpful, as it increases oral membrane permeability and also acts as an adhesive. Cyclodextin seems useful as well.


DMSO under tongue? Maybe just ETOH and RSV is OK.

I just tested the Vodka 99% RSV mix.
Definately absorbs sublingually.
Afterwards looked at my tounge in the mirror.
Observation:
Top of Tongue and lips are white, but the good news is the under tongue and inner mouth are not white, the 99% RSV must have been fully absorbed.
99% RSV apppears to be fully absorbed sublingually.

#357 browser

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 02:22 AM

Here are the search terms to use to see how to best deliver the t-res sublingually. There has to be someone here that can take this info and run with it. I wonder whther DMSO under the tongue might be a good idea? Would it still provide a quick delivery? I have read that t-res is soluble in DMSO at 15mg/ml, so for a 200mg does we would need about 13ml of DMSO.


BUCCAL DELIVERY


Edit:

It appears that chitosan would be helpful, as it increases oral membrane permeability and also acts as an adhesive. Cyclodextin seems useful as well.

This would taste absolutely gross unless using RIMSO50 and would burn like the dickens.

I noted an edit post. I can't find edit anywhere everything is light blue printing on top of light blue controls and every control I've tried has not gotten me to an editor.

#358 sUper GeNius

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 02:33 AM

Here's an interesting page.

http://www.pharmainf...delivery-system

#359 missminni

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 02:45 AM

Which method gets more Res into the bloodstream -
cutaneous or sublingual?
There's an open question I asked on another thread
Resveratrol As An Immune Suppresant
that I would love to know the answer to.
If anybody can answer it, it would be most helpful. thanks


Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#360 sUper GeNius

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 02:57 AM

Is this what we are looking for? Some are made of PEG. :ohmy:


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Suppository




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