61 replies to this topic

[rejwan]

Strange thing from here too. I tried Green Tea for 20 days in December and I had anxiety and I slept only 2 hours a day for a few days. Then had to go to the hospital. It is apparent that it was because of the Prozac I was using that created the manic episode. But after a time I tried Green Tea one more time and I am really having anxiety only after 2 cups and I can not sleep. It seems that it was Green Tea which also contributed to my episode. Green Tea gets me really into anxiety and do not sleep as I always do. So what we all are having the same thing here is a very rare issue. Considering that Green Tea is widely used and seem harmless, it having that much side effects is really strange.

[golden1]

FWIW, I can take caffeine, ephedrine, amphetamines and wellbutrin in various amounts and it has absolutely no effect on anxiety.

In fact, the strangest case is Wellbutrin..which has eliminated my depression and anxiety and has given me confidence like nothing else.

Caffeine also is anxyolitic for me.

The only two things that cause anxiety for me are like I said.. green tea and obviously yohimbine... these two just seem "dirty".... I cringe at the thought of consuming them.

I'll try taking a cap of AOR's egcg with a meal a few times a week just for the health benefit and when the increased anxiety wont be an issue I suppose... what a shame... I bet I have one messssed up neurochemistry.

It would be interesting to make a mega-thread on various substances like phenibut, gaba, ecgc, caffeine, l-theanine, etc. etc. and make people rate them on a scale of 1-10 in terms of ephoria, anxiety, energy, motivation etc. etc. and find some common trends in people's neurochemistry. For instance, phenibut, the first time I took it, was the most euphoric high I have ever experienced in my life...

same here, I get the "dirty toxic" feeling when I take l-theanine and get rather uncomfortable anxiety. It feels like it even makes my heart randomly beat strangely...
I just empty the capsules out now and use them for other things.

Most stimulants I'm fine with, same as you. I've also used deprenyl(which would raise dopamine and norepinephrine though maoi-b) and desoxypipradrol(which is a NDRI same as wellbutrin) and they each also "eliminated my depression and anxiety and has given me confidence like nothing else." Although I am not a depressed or overly anxious person, it's even still obvious they helped in both areas.

phenibut I liked as well, not most euphoric high for me, but definitely has some and it also got rid of any boredom

[outsider]

L-Theanine can cause anxiety, yes..

Only if your dopamine sensitive.

Indeed L-theanine increase dopamine.

[rathycodes]

Hi -- just now found this while googling 'green tea and anxiety'. I have proved over and over to myself now that I just cannot drink green tea. It makes me
crazy. Yes, wicked crazy. In fact, I had to leave my job because of anxiety and it was only after being home for a couple of months and stopping the green tea addiction that I had that I realized I didn't feel as anxious all the time. Of course, at first I assumed it was because of the JOB. But then after a while I drank some green tea one afternoon and when my teenage some came home from school -- I started yelling at him for....nothing. I had to ask myself what on earth made me so utterly full of ...what felt like rage. Later that night I wondered if it was the TEA. So, since then I have been doing little experiments and sho nuff ....IT"S THE TEA!! Too much coffee can make me shaky but NOTHING like the green tea angst! Won't drink any for days/weeks, then have a cup and whammo -- I'm a freaking wreck! I also have ADD (bonified) and was doing research on ADD and anger and ventured off into areas about dopamine and other neurotransmitters that eventually led me here. So, to answer your question -- YES YES YES. Green tea gives me wicked anxiety too. Cost me a pretty good job actually and left behind a bunch of people who thought I was just wound WAY too tight!

[rathycodes]

Just wanted to say that I too get maddening waves of anxiety from drinking green tea. Caffeine generally makes me feel ill at heart, but effects do seem to be worse with green tea than other caffeinated drinks. However if I combine the tea with piracetam, bacopa, or choline then I get a good focusing stack, and the anxiety transitions into clear focused energy. I drink green tea almost every day, and am trying to work through the anxiety by telling myself it is in my head, and breaking down my worries to simple defined problems that can be solved. It might be good training for a truly stressful day in the future. Be aware that anxiety and stress will tax your adrenals over time, and you might start putting weight around your gut. Don't drink too much tea at a time. Also, a hot shower helps ease anxiety bordering on panic.

Thanks for this. I have had anxiety disorders for most of my life along with years and years of panic attacks that I did not use meds for (or know about the hot shower fix). Thought the whole thing was caused by drugs so I avoided all of them. Bad decision. Got anxiety to the point that I was suicidal for years but didn't go through with it because I knew it would really mess up too many others' lives but...did end up with a nice little round belly eventually which was weird because I had always been thin. Didn't know the 2 had anything to do with each other. Funny how after years, and with the internet, you can shed light on so much of your unexplainable past. Thanks for the post.

[tintinet]

I started taking some NSI green tea extract a couple of weeks ago. I quickly developed overwhelming anxiety- really thought I was going bonkers for a few days.

[longevitynow]

I have a friend who gets palpitations from green tea, and maybe black tea sometimes. She claims it is an allergy to green tea/black tea. Quite possible.

Related hypothesis. The tea plant frequently has a high copper content. Many people have high levels of copper and/or an imbalance in their copper/zinc ratio. These people will tend to be sensitive to copper, and the effect is often one of anxiety. In fact, people with high copper levels to to be more anxious than other people in general. They have even done some studies on women where high levels of copper and low levels of zinc were related to an excess estrogen/progesterone ratio, which would promote PMS, etc.

Yet another hypothesis. I tend to do well with green/black tea, but on occasion on an empty stomach I've felt a little weird on it myself, but never when I take it with food. I'm thinking that it may be related to something it does to my blood sugar levels.

[jettrue]

I'm so glad I found this thread! I've been cutting back on caffeine, and starting drinking green tea. Been having massive anxiety. This coincided with a new prescription of Wellbutrin, and I was afraid the Wellbutrin was getting to me, as anxiety is a common side effect. I started to wonder about the green tea, but figured it has much less caffeine than coffee! I stopped the Wellbutrin because it was becoming unbearable, all the while downing green tea. Then I googled and found this. Will be cutting out green tea for the rest of the week and crossing my fingers.

[born-again-Christian]

Yes, L-Theanine give me slight anxiety in both supplement form and via green tea. I won't touch the stuff anymore.

[Delta Gamma]

L-theanine has some GABA modulating effects, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it simply modulates certain regions of the brain more so in certain people. I remember reading a paper on baclofen showing how it had completely different actions on GABA in different regions of the brain. I'm too busy to try and hunt that study down again, but the general message is that GABA has completely different actions in different regions of the brain and GABAgenic drugs can have weird ass side effects in some (a la zolpidem).

Or, maybe DOPA decarboxylase inhibitors found in green tea could lead to a increase in dopamine and therefore a increase in dopamine B-hydroxylase's substrate which would lead to a increase in epinephrine.

Other possible mechanisms for green tea, specifically L-theanine, to have anxiety promoting side effects would likely be its effects on glutamate receptors or serotonin. While the effects on serotonin vary from study to study, its effects could be due to a reduction of 5HT in some regions of the brain and a increase in others.

I'll post more links and elaborate more if I get a break from studying later.
Edit: here's a good introduction to its effectson NT's

Also this:

egcg = comt inhibitor = thermogenic, increase in norepinephrine
this is why green tea extract/egcg is sold in weight loss formulations.

Edited by Delta Gamma, 02 December 2010 - 11:12 PM.

[longevitynow]

My experience is that Theanine is calming and grounding to me, I've only occasionally had issues with green tea making me feel a bit off, never with theanine. So I suspect it is some other component in the tea that is throwing me off. Of course some others might have some specific reaction to theanine, but I do great with it.

[Brainbox]

I also did come to the conclusion that (green) tea is causing a form of light anxiety to me as well. Especially when I was preparing an important meeting or presentation, I had feelings of discomfort bordering to anxiety, which I did contribute to my somewhat perfectionist personality. After stopping drinking it, the discomfort did change back to the normal positive stress I always did experience in these situations. It is something that did slowly increase. I've been drinking tea all my life, but this discomfort is something that did develop during the last year or two. So, either I did develop some form of intolerance or something did change in the tea ......

[kikai93]

.
Go see some sort of doctor. If you can "pop Adderall before sleep" as casually as you state then you must have some means to a doctor.

Honestly, if you can sleep on 10mg of adderall, that alone is worth seeing a doctor about.

My experience of green tea is that it acts as a eugeroic if I sip it throughout the day (which is exactly what I do). If I chug it its effects are similar to coffee.
I find suntheanine calming. You probably have a paradoxic reaction to it. It's similar to how pseudoephedrine puts some people to sleep.

Edited by kikai93, 12 January 2011 - 09:05 PM.

[mastercowboy]

Yesterday tried 200mg of Theanine (Jarrow Suntheanine Type) in empty stomach in the morning and didn't feel anything.Today i tried the same amount same time but with juice.I feel slight anxiety.I will try double tommorow to see if it is from Theanine or just my imagination.

Also last night i found it very difficult to sleep although i sleep relatively easy.However i took a nap at noon as usual..strange!

[JChief]

When I had anxiety and panic issues I quickly resolved that (many years of bad life choices leading to that point) with one bottle of rosavin (!!) No kidding. I suffered from anxiety and random bouts of panic attacks for seemingly no reason. Certainly substances would cause it too (or even extreme temperature changes at one point).. long story short I was able to throw away the benzos and all the experimentation with SSRIs (liquid prozac etc) and .. yup.. just one bottle of rosavin cured all that. Pretty amazing.

[Mind]

I get some anxiety from green tea, but only if I drink 3 or more cups in a short period of time.

[Luminosity]

This site contains an unusual number of people who react badly to green tea. Green tea doesn't agree with everyone, especially here.

[JChief]

I think it's important to distinguish between green tea (actual tea) and green tea extracts first of all. But I might, on rare occasions, get a little "hint" of jitters if I consume many glasses of green tea within a short period of time, like Mind said. Caffeine in general has resulted in different effects over the years. It was terrible when I was having issues with anxiety in my early twenties so I guess what I'm getting at is a bad reaction may be an indication that something else is amiss. SE/DA/NE/Ach you name it.

[Raptor87]

Green tea makes me tired and a tad dizzy but black tea makes me focused and calm. Cofee makes me jittery and nervous and it also gives me anxiety but I become incredibly happy.

[Madman]

I also get this strange green tea reaction, its a very anxious feeling

 

Its not the theanine that's responsible, and black tea does not produce this anxiety in any quantity for me.

 

The comment on the first page "egcg = comt inhibitor = thermogenic, increase in norepinephrine" fits the anxiety effect perfectly, this is surely the reason for it.

Edited by Madman, 12 January 2017 - 09:19 PM.

[gamesguru]

The disparity in user reports is attributable to variation not only in theanine:caffeine ratios, but also as pointed out above, individual neurochemistry.  Found one study with a hyperdopaminergic psychotic model, and anxiety in that model was reduced by theanine.  It may antagonize dopamine when high and potentiate it when low, acting as a bidirectional modulator? It also lowers glutamate activity when high.

 

All things considered, those in whom green tea elicits an unfavorable response are hereby advised to buy more expensive supplier-direct first-flush tea... or just to buy separately theanine, GTE, and caffeine pills

[Madman]

Fully agree with individual differences caused by varying neurochemistry, however the unusual anxiety effect is not a caffeine or theanine effect, the same anxiety is felt with egcg extract capsules which are both caffeine and theanine free

 

Also had the same effect with top quality green teas

 

 

[gamesguru]

i would venture to assume decaff coffee elicits a similar response?  this is due to the caffeic acids.  these, present in coffee, share the serotonin and acetylcholine uptake inhibiting property of EGCG, which is responsible for much of the characteristic feel possessed by each beverage and which is impossible to get from caffeine alone

 

Several neuronal systems, such as dopaminergic, cholinergic and serotoninergic ones, undergo alterations during ageing. Rats supplemented with EGCG had increased cortical neurotransmitter levels (dopamine, acetylcholine and serotonin) and acetylcholine esterase activity and performed better in radial maze experiments when compared to aged-matched controls [240].

 

sertonin is notoriously correlated with anxiety, and ssris may address this by counterintuitively lessening serotonergic activity (on the presynapse).  acetylcholine is also a huge player in anxiety states, but due to the scarcity of true talent in the establishment, very little research has been carried out on this front.

 

you might perhaps accomplish the impossible, by monitoring intake of tryptophan and choline?  with all the herbal AChEs i get on the daily, i eventually had to limit my choline to around 150-250mg daily (fyi thats pure dietary, none supplemental)

Edited by gamesguru, 13 January 2017 - 12:46 AM.

[Madman]

Spot on Gamesguru - decaf coffee does something similar yes, I actually still enjoy decaf coffee but abstain due to negative behavioral changes others notice.

 

I take 5-htp and tryptophan daily. I used to have a problem with choline and had to avoid it, along with B-Vitamins, but now I take a choline /Inositol supplement daily with no effect on my personality or anxiety but this could be due to the peptides I take now which have wiped out my anxiety and some other supplements.

 

 

For me its always too little Serotonin and too much dopamine/ acetylcholine / and Adrenaline, which I control through diet , the change in choline response is strange

 

Edited by Madman, 13 January 2017 - 11:29 AM.

[gamesguru]

not terribly sure about the peptides and b vitamins clearing your system, but it sounds lovely.  i think the body just gets used to choline after a while and it stops bothering us so much, but will it make you stronger?

 

the inositol only works at ridiculous doses, and I'm not thrilled by the idea of downing tablespoons.  

 

the 5-htp actually has poor BBB permeability, and so accumulates in the periphery to a considerable extent, resulting in such unpleasentries as mitrial valve fibrosis.

tryptophan is far less concerning as an agent for cardiac fibrosis, equally safe are induces of TPH2 such as bacopa, vitamin D and lithium (all of which I checked at least provisionally against dopamine, all I saw was that lithium and bacopa could actually normalize dopamine levels).

 

the major concern here is acetylcholine going thru the roof, and i havent found a better solution than restricting dietary choline which comes with the unfortuante effect of also restricting dietary protein

Edited by gamesguru, 14 January 2017 - 04:39 AM.

[Madman]

The peptides that had a major effect on my mood are Selank and DSIP which I take daily.

 

I take the choline/inositol/L-methionine supplement for liver detox purposes (I think here inositol acts to buffer the effects of choline, I could be wrong) not so much for any possible brain effects, in that combination I notice no disturbances yet... I can also take a B-Vitamin supplement without any issue now, maybe this part is age related ?

 

5-htp and mitrial valve fibroisis, I heard that also but its much more effective mood wise for me than just tryptophan, is this a proven issue now or just one research study pointing to it ?, straight up tryptophan low or high dose does not balance me like 5-htp

 

I tried lithium and bacopa neither did me any good, both made me depressed and wired, with dopamine levels, I am OK, I just have to avoid agonists such as nicotine, broad beans (l-dopa), aspartame, alcohol and others, my natural level is OK, just can't go much higher.

 

As you mention, Acetlycholine is the major one to watch out for. I avoid major simulators of it like green tea, decaf tea and some antioxidants and my levels stay OK.

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread

[gamesguru]

ginseng and ginkgo give me the high dopamine problem, agitated dysphoria states (less of a problem w red korean ginseng, low dose).  not so much anxiety, thats moreso norepinephrine and acetylcholine. DBH inhibitors and low choline diet can address both fronts

 

but it surprises me that lithium and bacopa caused you to feel the same way.  bacopa can restore to baseline, from both directions i thought?  and lithium is weakly anti-dopaminergic?

[Madman]

ginseng and ginkgo give me the high dopamine problem, agitated dysphoria states (less of a problem w red korean ginseng, low dose).  not so much anxiety, thats moreso norepinephrine and acetylcholine. DBH inhibitors and low choline diet can address both fronts

 

but it surprises me that lithium and bacopa caused you to feel the same way.  bacopa can restore to baseline, from both directions i thought?  and lithium is weakly anti-dopaminergic?

 

Bacopa and Lithium must have both had a negative effect on my dopamine levels (lowering), as this has always made me depressed in the past when my dopamine levels are lowered. I do well with the levels I have but when increased too much I get mildly psychotic, Modafinil made me mildly psychotic at 1/4 of the normal dose, and on stopping I had depression for a few days, probably following a dopamine crash of some kind.

 

I was surprised to have not responded as I had expected with Bacopa and Lithium, I had high hopes for both at the time of testing.

 

Ginseng and Ginkgo do the same to me also - agitated dysphoria states.

 

For an opposite positive effect, I find JuJube fruit extract very helpful daily as it has a nice relaxing and chilling effect on mind and body.

Edited by Madman, 15 January 2017 - 04:23 PM.

[chipdouglas]

Before I start writing more directly about my green tea experience (i.e. sencha), I want to mention that I have a fast COMT gene variant and slow MAO-A. 

 

I could on and on, but for the sake of brevity and succinctness, I'll stick to the main points. 

 

I do quite well on most first-flush sencha - meaning, better mood, libido and an increased desire to get things done - this seems to make sense given my fast COMT gene variant. 

 

Most of the time, I get my sencha straight from Japan. I used to get them from O-cha, but I no longer do. He sells many high-end green teas, the aroma and taste of which are amazing (I.e. I've tried them all). However, since his primary objective centers around the taste of tea, he seems to pick out tea cultivars producing low amounts of catechins, as this makes for tastier tea drinking experience. I've recently read that the higher the quality of tea is, the lower the amount of catechins. It correlates with my experience sampling a wide array of O-cha's teas. There's no doubt in my mind that most of his teas have low amounts of catechins, because I get incredibly tense drinking those. 

 

Now, other than O-cha's teas, I've also drank a lot of first-flush sencha without any problem - actually, as I mentioned above, I normally do quite well on sencha. 

 

I also experience much increased inner tension from taking GTE (AOR's or other). As Gamesguru wrote, I think the main difference has to do with the theanine contents in first-flush sencha vs second flush which has much lower around of theanine than first-flush. 

 

I also wanted to add that I've never ever done well on fukamushi sencha - the fine particles increases the amount of caffeine in my cup for one and coupled with the low amount of catechin makes for a very stimulating tea that I just can't handle. My partner has also experienced the same thing. Mind you O-cha recommends his sencha to be brewed for ~ 30 seconds, while my infusions of his teas were like 3-5 minutes. I have no problem doing that with most other sencha though.

Edited by chipdouglas, 11 January 2018 - 07:00 PM.

[chipdouglas]

Here's IMHO a very interesting and enlightening document about the anti-stress effect of green tea. It alone cleared up a lot of questions I've had : https://www.jstage.j...b17-00141/_html