2189 replies to this topic

[100YearsToGo]

Niacinamide, dexamethasone and others have also been shown to extend lifespan of human fibroblast in vitro, producing as much as 1.6-fold increase in the number of population doublings . Why take a staining compound with a short track record in life extension properties? Astragalus has not been shown to extend telomeres in humans. Cycloastregenol a stronger compound than Astragaloside IV has only been shown to delay telomere shortening is some immune system cells.

In my opinion, the difference is the fundamental mode of action. The more specific and direct a mode of action, the better, I feel, unlike with niacinamide and others, which can reek havoc on other pathways (such as downregulation of Sirt1 by niacinamide) that may matter more in vivo than in vitro. That is, we know niacinamide and other metabolic precursors may have several potentially adverse reactions that could become iteratively exacerbated in vivo. This dye, on the other hand, specifically interacts with the mitochondrial electron transport chain when in proportion to cytochrome c levels to give its effects (upregulation of complex IV and ROS defense enzymes, reversal of mitochondrial dysfunction and senescence, not just prolonging life span but also robustness; may also replace oxygen in accepting stray electrons from complexes I and/or III and thus prevent ROS production instead of scavenging, while keeping mitochondrial respiration at its max), and this only occurs at extremely low doses (~100 nano molar, or ~1mg per day), well below the threshold needed for interacting with the other pathways it can target as part of its medicinal use.

That's another difference, that we're dealing with something that's been around and used in humans for nearly a hundred years, and then decreasing the dose, instead of boosting to obscene levels like with niacinamide and others. Boosting doses increases the probability of adverse and unexpected side effects when molecules begin interacting in unexpected ways due to new and favorable thermodynamics caused by overabundance. That is true for all supplements. I believe everything has a U shaped dose response curve, and so proper levels are important.

At any rate, in my view from all the research out there, there seems to be three main modes of aging, which pretty much go in order: mitochondrial dysfunction leads to increased ROS -> increased ROS damage to DNA/proteins decreases Sirt1 regulation of genes resulting in aberrant gene expression in differentiated cells, potentially disrupting function, leading to cancer, and causing many of the phenotypic effects of aging -> telomere shortening in somatic cells leads to chromosomal break down and ultimate life span limit. The four I listed specifically address these issues, which is why they are so interesting to me, at least. After all, for the replication of any species, all for of those issues have to be circumvented in gametogenic cells, so it's possible or there wouldn't be life as we know it.

That is all just my opinion on the matter - and there's certainly no short supply of opinions in the world . Finally, we'll find out more about astragaloside IV here shortly from Anthony in February, with any luck, or maybe even earlier after this 3 week period he speaks of so suspiciously, heh heh. And besides, any controlled telomerase upregulation should be better than none.

Your opinion is much appreciated. Bruce Ames certainly believes in MB and thats worth a second and a third look. So I'm softening my stance I also found this patent application with B. Ames as an inventor. http://www.wipo.int/...mp;DISPLAY=DESC . It may be worthwile to start a thread on MB.

About Nicinamide; we have an interesting thread about that. It may not be a significan sirt1 inhibitor in humans after all. I invite you to read it and give your opinion, especially if it is a negative one. http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=25586

[rimrockjim]

I found this on a Alzheimers thread


Potential Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Cure Found In Century-old Drug
ScienceDaily (Aug. 18, 2008) — A new study conducted by researchers at Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland shows that a century-old drug, methylene blue, may be able to slow or even cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Used at a very low concentration – about the equivalent of a few raindrops in four Olympic-sized swimming pools of water – the drug slows cellular aging and enhances mitochondrial function, potentially allowing those with the diseases to live longer, healthier lives.

A paper on the methylene blue study, conducted by Hani Atamna, PhD, and a his team at Children's, was published in the March 2008 issue of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) Journal. Dr. Atamna's research found that methylene blue can prevent or slow the decline of mitochondrial function, specifically an important enzyme called complex IV. Because mitochondria are the principal suppliers of energy to all animal and human cells, their healthy function is critical.

"The results are very encouraging," said Dr. Atamna. "We'd eventually like to try to prevent the physical and cognitive decline associated with aging, with a focus on people with Alzheimer's disease. One of the key aspects of Alzheimer's disease is mitochondrial dysfunction, specifically complex IV dysfunction, which methylene blue improves. Our findings indicate that methylene blue, by enhancing mitochondrial function, expands the mitochondrial reserve of the brain. Adequate mitochondrial reserve is essential for preventing age-related disorders such as Alzheimer's disease."

Also impressed is one of Dr. Atamna's co-authors, Bruce Ames, PhD, a senior scientist at Children's and world-renowned expert in nutrition and aging. "What we potentially have is a wonder drug." said Dr. Ames. "To find that such a common and inexpensive drug can be used to increase and prolong the quality of life by treating such serious diseases is truly exciting."

Methylene blue, first discovered in 1891, is now used to treat methemoglobinemia, a blood disorder. But because high concentrations of methylene blue were known to damage the brain, no one thought to experiment with low concentrations. Also, drugs such as methylene blue do not easily reach the brain.

Dr. Atamna's research is the first to show that low concentrations of the drug have the ability to slow cellular aging in cultured cells in the laboratory and in live mice. He believes methylene blue has the potential to become another commonplace low-cost treatment like aspirin, prescribed as a blood thinner for people with heart disorders.

Dr. Atamna's research, funded by the Bruce and Giovanna Ames Foundation, was conducted at Children's research institute and will continue when Dr. Atamna assumes a position as a professor of Neuroscience at The Commonwealth Medical College in Pennsylvania.

[unglued]

Interesting brand name you picked, Anthony. Maybe you should offer it in three flavors: Astral Mint, Astral Chocolate, and Astral Plain.

But seriously...

There's an obvious safety concern about TA-65 that also could apply to anything concentrated from astragalus. Two of TA Science's FAQ entries could be summarized not too unfairly as:
Q. Has TA-65 been safety-tested?
A. It doesn't need to be. It's derived from astragalus, a natural product that has a record of being taken safety for 1000 years.
Q. Won't an $8 bottle of astragalus do the same thing for me?
A. No, because astragalus contains a negligible percentage of TA-65.
Although the first answer is correct from a regulatory perspective, it isn't very reassuring that they try to have it both ways: Safety-wise, it's got a long track record, but efficacy-wise, there's never been anything like it.

Also, I'm wondering about the recommendation on your RevGenetics web site to take it 3 hours after your list of seven "natural Telomerase inhibitors". It would be inconvenient for me, since I've incorporated green tea, turmeric, and garlic into my diet, especially green tea. Is 3 hours even enough? Is the idea to make sure that the astragaloside and the inhibitor aren't in the blood stream at the same time? I haven't seen any discussion of whether that's a good strategy, to activate telomerase for part of the day in hopes it will be enough time to lengthen the telomeres, then deactivate it. I've seen a little discussion on this topic about the flip side: how long telomerase needs to be inhibited, by taking a break from astragaloside, to let the would-be tumors die off, and someone mentioned that TA Sciences uses three months on TA-65 and three months off.

And isn't taking astragaloside in the morning kind of like taking it within three hours of melatonin, since the body naturally secrets melatonin while sleeping?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Unglued,

I can only speak for our company in regards to your questions.

At this time the results for the Astral Fruit tests regarding telomerase along with res are not complete. So we have to assume res may affect it, at least for now. For other folks that say that res activates telomerase. Well, I have been taking Res since October of 2006 (2 grams!), so my telomere results would have shown something better.

For now they simply show that my telomeres appear average for my age. I don't believe Resveratrol is good at activating telomerase from a personal standpoint.

As far as breaks, TA does not use a 3 month on, 3 month off break. They have a 2 week break every 3 months (it's on their website). Why do they take breaks? I don't know about them, but I do know that our scientist has performed tests that result in the cell stopping growth after a certain time even when a healthy cell is turned telomerase "on" permanently. These cells obviously are not tumors, and do not become tumors even when the telomerase in a healthy cell has been turned permanently on. Because the cell "finds a way" to stop growing after a while, it leads me to believe that when taking 3 Astral fruit capsules or more, you may need a break so as to let your body not get used to it, and have it become less effective. Certainly not because of the issue you mention.

We ask folks to take 1 capsule instead, to avoid the 2 week breaks. But if you take 3 capsules or more... I believe a 2 week break maybe in order simply to make sure of it's continued effectiveness.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 January 2009 - 04:09 PM.

[stephen_b]

Two of TA Science's FAQ entries could be summarized not too unfairly as:
Q. Has TA-65 been safety-tested?
A. It doesn't need to be. It's derived from astragalus, a natural product that has a record of being taken safety for 1000 years.

The conclusion drawn in this quote from TA science's site may or may not be correct. Even if astragalus is safe, it does not necessarily follow that one of its components that occurs naturally as a small fraction of whole astragalus is safe when concentrated many times over.

StephenB

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Stephen,

just an fyi from http://www.itmonline.org/ :

The analysis of active constituents present above reveals that a dose of about 15 grams of astragalus, as frequently used in decoctions, may be sufficient to attain only some of the desired effects of the known active components, but that a 20-30 gram dose would be more suitable.

The Chinese Materia Medica recommendations for astragalus dosing are 9-15 grams/day (with the understanding that astragalus is to be used in formulas with other herbs); high doses of 30-60 grams are also suggested, at least for some applications (usually not specified). When dosing at or below 15 grams, an herbalist is counting on other herbs in a formula to contribute some similar active components in order to get the desired therapeutic action. Thus, for example, a decoction made with astragalus, ganoderma (lingzhi), and red ginseng would provide polysaccharides and saponins from all three herbs, and so long as the total dosing of these three ingredients was sufficient, then astragalus at 9-15 grams/day would be acceptable.

The formula Yiqi Congming Tang has three botanically-related herbs-astragalus, licorice, and pueraria-all contributing flavonoids and saponins, as well as having ginseng with additional saponins. Thus, astragalus is not the sole herb relied on for these active components. This formula is not used for immune enhancing purposes, so the limited amount of polysaccharides from other ingredients is not a concern.

Lower doses of astragalus would not be entirely ineffective, but the action would be limited. As an example, the polysaccharides can have benefits for the stomach (e.g., alleviating ulcers) at doses below that necessary to yield the general immunological effects, because of the direct action of the full amount of the herb ingredients on the stomach before being distributed throughout the body. Thus, pills with a relatively small amount of astragalus included will have this type of action from astragalus. Following absorption from the small intestine, the astragalus ingredients are diluted into a large volume of blood and some begin to be metabolized and eliminated after just a few minutes.

The recommended high doses of astragalus, at 30-60 grams per day (sometimes as high as 120 grams/day), are used in short-term therapies to get a stronger action of the herbs, and this dosage should yield a substantial effect from both the saponins and polysaccharides, with some effect also from flavonoids. It is not known if prolonged use of these higher dosages could be detrimental, but a reasonable caution would be to limit the duration to a few days at a time when needed, rather than a continuous therapy.

If we calculate astragaloside iv amount in these dosages it is interesting:
9 grams = 14.4mg
15 grams = 24mg
30 grams = 48mg
60 grams = 96mg
120 grams = 192mg

of course there are alot of other things that your body is taking that is in astragulus at such doses as well.
So this might be something to consider if you want to take bulk astragalus instead of Astral Fruit which has 33mg per capsule of Astragaloside IV...

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 03 January 2009 - 04:15 PM.

[zorba990]

At this time the results for the Astral Fruit tests regarding telomerase along with res are not complete. So we have to assume res may affect it, at least for now. For other folks that say that res activates telomerase. Well, I have been taking Res since October of 2006 (2 grams!), so my telomere results would have shown something better.

Out of curiosity are you taking 2grams of the Tween 80 TRes?

[Anthony_Loera]

At this time the results for the Astral Fruit tests regarding telomerase along with res are not complete. So we have to assume res may affect it, at least for now. For other folks that say that res activates telomerase. Well, I have been taking Res since October of 2006 (2 grams!), so my telomere results would have shown something better.

Out of curiosity are you taking 2grams of the Tween 80 TRes?

Hi Zorba,

please ask me followup questions on the resveratrol forum, as this thread is not about resveratrol.
Quick answer: No, because of the higher absorption...

Cheers
A

[unglued]

I do know that our scientist has performed tests that result in the cell stopping growth after a certain time even when a healthy cell is turned telomerase "on" permanently. These cells obviously are not tumors, and do not become tumors even when the telomerase in a healthy cell has been turned permanently on.

Once upon a time there was a large apartment complex. All of the five hundred residents were too poor to afford the high-quality health care or high-quality food, and it was just a matter of time before they started to succumb to disease or starvation. The vast majority of them were gentle, honest citizens who worked for the common good as well as they were able and would sooner die than do anyone harm. There were, of course, the usual handful of petty thieves causing everyone trouble. A bigger problem was that dozens of the remaining residents, though basically good people, would, when times got desperate enough, resort to burglary, muggings, and armed robbery. The local police force was chronically understaffed.

Then one day, a philanthropist distributed a large sum of money to the residents. This made an enormous difference in their lives. Children began to up strong and healthy, no one had to struggle to survive. Some say that money corrupts, but the good people of the apartment complex found a way to limit their spending to constructive uses. In fact, with their newly found time and energy, they even organized community work days to clear all the junk out of the hallways, repaint the walls, and make the entire apartment house look as new as it had decades before. No one had to become a criminal out of desperation. As for the few pretty crooks who stole for the fun of it, the larger tax base and lower crime rate gave the local police enough resources to catch virtually all of them and throw them in jail. Everyone was happier, and things began to run smoothly.

What no one knew was that out of the five hundred residents, just by bad luck, one of the neighbors was a psychopath. He was quiet and kept to himself and had gone unnoticed. But he'd been born with psychopathic tendencies, and although nothing might have come of them -- he had a cousin with the same gene who'd grown up fine -- unfortunately, the environment he'd grown up in and a trauma he'd experienced as a child all combined to push him over the edge. Again, many of his neighbors had had equally tough childhoods and hadn't turned into psychopaths, but this man had just the wrong combination of nature and nurture. The only thing that stopped him from becoming a serial killer was that he didn't have enough money to buy any assault rifles. With his share of the philanthropist's donation, he was finally able to buy as large an arsenal as he liked, and begin the killing spree he had always wanted.

Should the philanthropist have taken the chance?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi unglued,

interesting story, but not relevant as we have had crazy people shooting up schools with almost no money to buy an arsenal, because of what reasons?

What were those reasons unglued, do you recall? Was it because they ate too much Vitamin A one day, or chocolate the next? Maybe too much nootropics, or drugs? Maybe video games? Maybe he just woke up on the wrong side of the bed? The story assumes you knew about the psychopath's tipping point or trigger before the it happened to try to prevent it. It appears no one in your story knew.

To that fact, how many mothers who want to test for an issue while the baby is in the womb, get accidentally aborted while the doc is trying to put a needle into the placenta. Would you be psychic enough to know which test to avoid, or which person should avoid such a test? Yes, I have been at the precipice of this decision myself just a little while ago.

You simply have to make informed decisions, and use statistics as a guide. My wife is 42, has had issues... so we did 2 other non-invasive tests.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 04 January 2009 - 03:00 PM.

[unglued]

Personally, I've tentatively concluded that the philanthropist in my parable took a good calculated risk, which is why I'm going to hope the chance that one of my cells is a would-be serial killer is outweighed by the chance it will keep another cell from turning bad when it reaches the end of its rope. But it's worrisome, this theory that one or two papers mentioned, that there may be cells that have had all but one thing go wrong with them and telomerase activation is the last step needed to turn them cancerous. If such cells exist, our inability to psychoanalyze what went wrong with them does not change the danger of giving telomerase to such cells if some of them might never have figured out how to make it themselves.

[unglued]

Anthony -- Any update on the following yet?

Ok Folks, hold on to your hats....

in about 3 weeks we may know if our next formulation will use Astragaloside IV or Cycloastregenol (According to the CAS number, it appears to be the same herbal saponin from astragalus termed as "TAT2" that Geron used in their press release http://biz.yahoo.com...5497.html?.v=1)...

(Yes, this is part of the reason we haven't released the Chitosan/Astragaloside IV formulation)

Meanwhile, there seems to be some uncertainty about how much constitutes a "megadose", since a factor of just 4 made the difference between good a bad:

This is not connected to the use of Astral Fruit per se, but as a caution to the megadose users.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus
P.S. the usage is completely different from Astral Fruit and similar products, so quantities and results cannot be compared.

and we have no way to compare their quantities of 50 and 200 mMolar to oral delivery.

Given the above, if 33mg really is a good oral dose, it may not be such a good idea to buy a bottle of chitlosan and increase it to effectively 1.3g. Better to wait for Anthony to offer a (cheaper?) formula with chitosan and 1/60th the astragloside IV. If, on the other hand, a 60-fold increase in absorption is helpful, it may be useless to take the current formula unless you take it with chitosan. I wish we knew which was the case.

http://pmid.us/16715776 -- The study apparently reports that 0.1% chitosan increases absorption of astragalus by over 60 fold.

One more thought: Geron has been reporting at recent webcast investor conferences that it has developed a quick and easy array to see if telomerase is active, using hair follicles I believe. (Their need for that at the moment is to evaluate their telomerase inhibition drug candidate; their telomerase activation drug candidate is not yet being tested in humans or even mice.) I wonder if there's any possibility of them licensing that diagnostic to a lab that could use it to offer a lower-cost way that the rest of us could find out if a given dose of a given Astral Fruit formula is activating telomerase. The current test is expensive, although it does measure the bottom line of whether the telomeres have been extended (but only with at least two tests).

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Unglued,

we are pursuing Cycloastregenol (ie. TAT2) at this moment, and because of that have slow progress on astragaloside iv w/chitosan.

We are waiting on work being performed for a method of extraction by a U.S. Lab, after this we will have wholesale pricing, and may make the method public depending on the market and pricing offered. This product will get out there, best to make sure people produce it correctly instead of selling people something that will not provide any benefit. I started thinking about this after we got some "Cycloastregenol" from china, that was tested at 2% purity through Dalton in canada, when the COA that accompanied it stated the purity of it was much, much higher.

People buying this from China, will likely not get what they asked for, even if the Chinese COA states it, you must test it at a lab who has developed an expertise for this substance. If we didn't test it, then you all would not be getting what you were paying for.

In the end, we decided to go to a US lab to develop a method o extraction for us.

I believe you will see this end up on shelves at your local health store, even if it's not under our brand name. I know there is a few marketing people that will want to shoot me for this, but I am leaning to help manufacture this for OEM / private label for others on this product because of quality issues regarding china suppliers. I find that if we have folks buying the wrong stuff, their experience will likely affect the reputation of the natural substance and confuse folks as to whether or not there are any benefits. (Much like current resveratrol arguments which confuse alot of folks. Specially if they are not sure about the quality of the product they are taking.)

The simple fact is that other folks will buy this from Chinese suppliers and will not test it specifically for this substance, as most labs do not have proper test methods for this substance yet. We ran into that problem early on when looking for a lab to test the purity, and decided to go to Dalton in Canada. Yes they are pricey, as their prices resemble that of Consumer Labs, but unlike consumer labs they have experience with the substance and the cost was well worth it.

If things go well, it will be available sometime in Q2 this year for OEM, and available late January early February from us.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 05 January 2009 - 02:47 PM.

[stephen_b]

If things go well, it will be available sometime in Q2 this year for OEM, and available late January early February from us.

Cheers
A

As in this month or next? That would be welcome news.

StephenB

[Anthony_Loera]

If things go well, it will be available sometime in Q2 this year for OEM, and available late January early February from us.

Cheers
A

As in this month or next? That would be welcome news.

StephenB

We would like it to be this month, however we are at the mercy of the lab's time frame... when they are ready with the method I will have more news.

Cheers
A

[VinceG]

Anthony -- Any update on the following yet?

Ok Folks, hold on to your hats....

in about 3 weeks we may know if our next formulation will use Astragaloside IV or Cycloastregenol (According to the CAS number, it appears to be the same herbal saponin from astragalus termed as "TAT2" that Geron used in their press release http://biz.yahoo.com...5497.html?.v=1)...

(Yes, this is part of the reason we haven't released the Chitosan/Astragaloside IV formulation)

Meanwhile, there seems to be some uncertainty about how much constitutes a "megadose", since a factor of just 4 made the difference between good a bad:

This is not connected to the use of Astral Fruit per se, but as a caution to the megadose users.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus
P.S. the usage is completely different from Astral Fruit and similar products, so quantities and results cannot be compared.

and we have no way to compare their quantities of 50 and 200 mMolar to oral delivery.

Given the above, if 33mg really is a good oral dose, it may not be such a good idea to buy a bottle of chitlosan and increase it to effectively 1.3g. Better to wait for Anthony to offer a (cheaper?) formula with chitosan and 1/60th the astragloside IV. If, on the other hand, a 60-fold increase in absorption is helpful, it may be useless to take the current formula unless you take it with chitosan. I wish we knew which was the case.

http://pmid.us/16715776 -- The study apparently reports that 0.1% chitosan increases absorption of astragalus by over 60 fold.

One more thought: Geron has been reporting at recent webcast investor conferences that it has developed a quick and easy array to see if telomerase is active, using hair follicles I believe. (Their need for that at the moment is to evaluate their telomerase inhibition drug candidate; their telomerase activation drug candidate is not yet being tested in humans or even mice.) I wonder if there's any possibility of them licensing that diagnostic to a lab that could use it to offer a lower-cost way that the rest of us could find out if a given dose of a given Astral Fruit formula is activating telomerase. The current test is expensive, although it does measure the bottom line of whether the telomeres have been extended (but only with at least two tests).

Anthony, I very much appreciate your personal and company (RevGenetics) efforts to bring practical telomere extension into the availability-range of intelligent health-oriented people. I think it is terrific that you are going to create a supply of Cycloastregenol , probably the same as TA2 which has been reported on by Effros et. al. When you do so, I certainly plan to shift to using it.

I have been taking Astral Fruit now for 4-5 months, at present two capsules a day mid-day with chitosan and an astragalus extract capsule hopefully to increase absorption. My wife is taking a single capsule a day, and several other friends and colleagues are also taking it. I am also taking 325mg of trans resveratrol and other of my Anti-Aging //firewall substances separated by 5 hours from the astral fruit. It is difficult to assess the impact of the astragaloside IV other than via subjective impressions. So far I have noticed:

* decreased susceptability to viral and bacterial infections, such as colds, and resistant to the flu despite close contact with my son who had a case of it
* noticible but not intense increase in sexual interest and capability
* general good health and energy
* no noticible shifts in my head or body hair (a known marker of telomerase expression is activation of hair folicle cells which would produce more black hairs and possibly more grey hairs)
* looking at still photos, at 79 I seem to look almost exactly the same as I looked 5 years ago
* perhaps most significantly, my wife (62) who has scleroderma does not have nasty fingertip infections this winter. She had them the previous three winters and there was no established therapy for them.

Of course it is impossible to clearly identify any of these effects with the Astral Fruit, though I personally think they are.

I would love to hear any anecdotal impressions of others who are taking Astral Fruit.

Vince

[smithx]

I got paranoid about the possibility that stimulating telomerase could allow damaged cells to live long enough to get the full complement of damage required for them to become cancer cells (about 5-7 changes apparently).

So I started researching it, and papers like one quoted below indicate that significant shortening occurs after the age of 55. After the telomeres get shorter, the cells are also more likely to have DNA damage due to replication errors.

So it would appear that stimulating telomerase MAY be safer for those of age 55 or below.

Since there is some evidence that lengthening telomeres improves immune function, and since improved immune function might allow cancer cells to be destroyed before they can grow, it is also possible that the benefits could outweigh the risks at ages above 55 as well.

But both conclusions are completely speculative at this time, of course:

Aging and endothelial progenitor cell telomere length in healthy men.
Kushner EJ, Van Guilder GP, Maceneaney OJ, Cech JN, Stauffer BL, Desouza CA.

1Department of Integrative Physiology, Integrative Vascular Biology Laboratory, University of Colorado, Boulder, CO, USA.

Abstract Background: Telomere length declines with age in mature endothelial cells and is thought to contribute to endothelial dysfunction and atherogenesis. Bone marrow-derived circulating endothelial progenitor cells (EPCs) are critical to vascular health as they contribute to both reendothelialization and neovascularization. We tested the hypothesis that EPC telomere length decreases with age in healthy adult humans. Methods: Peripheral blood samples were collected from 40 healthy, non-obese, sedentary men: 12 young (age 21-34 years), 12 middle-aged (43-55 years) and 16 older (57-68 years). Putative EPCs were isolated from peripheral blood mononuclear cells and telomere length was determined using genomic DNA preparation and Southern hybridization techniques. Results: EPC telomere length (base pairs) was approximately 20% (p=0.01) lower in the older (8492+523 bp) compared to the middle-aged (10,565+572 bp) and young (10,205+501 bp) men. Of note, there was no difference in EPC telomere length between the middle-aged and young men. Conclusions: These results demonstrate that EPC telomere length declines with age in healthy, sedentary men. Interestingly, telomere length was well preserved in the middle-aged compared to young men, suggesting that EPC telomere shortening occurs after the age of 55 years. Clin Chem Lab Med 2009;47:47-50.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19055473

[tomnook]

Vince

I've been taking Astral Fruit on a 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle (as suggested by James A Green) for the past three months and have seen considerable new hair growth - both dark (my natural colour is dark brown) and grey hairs. I'm 54 yrs old and have been almost bald for the past twenty years or more - I began losing my hair in my late teens/early twenties with the grey appearing before I reached my mid-30's.

Not only have dozens of new hairs begun appearing on my scalp but I also noticed that some grey hairs on my wrist have entirely disappeared, additionally, body hair in other areas where I'm 99% sure there was some grey, has also reverted to brown. I can't say that I've noticed any other physical changes changes and no-one else has actually noticed/commented on any hair colour changes either. However, I've trimmed my hair after each of the 4-week cycles and placed the resulting cuttings in plastic wallets and a friend today placed them in the correct order of "apparent greyness"! There is certainly a significant difference between the cuttings after one month and those of months two and three.

I decided to adopt the 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle and removed the telomerase inhibitors mentioned by James A Green (no curcumin (turmeric), silymarin, garlic (allicin), melatonin, vitamin E, fish oil EPA, resveratrol, quercetin, green tea, ginseng) most of which I normally would take. During the second 2-wk period I have re-introduced the inhibitors and, obviously, ceased the astrgaloside IV. In fact I have a fairly similar supplement regimen to that of Simon007.

For the 2-wk "on" period I've been taking (at midday) 1 x33mg Astral Fruit, 250mg Calcium Ascorbate, Chitosan ( First 2-wk period 500mg (Now), second 2-wk period 250mg (Source Naturals), third 2-wk period 125mg (50% of a Source Naturals cap.) (I reduced the Chitosan due to comments/research given in earlier postings in this thread and others.)

Coincidentally, I had routine blood tests, a nutritional profile and male hormone panel run after the first 4-wk period - the results were all pretty much in-line with previous ones apart from my testosterone level which has always been high/normal (previous test in Feb 08) - this showed a decline of 50% to approximately the middle of the range. Testosterone is known to be related to male pattern baldness and I wonder if the reduction could have resulted in my new hair growth. I haven't noticed any decline in sex drive so perhaps the result was an anomaly! Lymphocytes were also slightly increased to high/normal however this level is not significantly greater than previous results.

Anthony, if you're reading this - I wonder if you've had any blood tests during the period which you've been taking Astral Fruit? Hormone panel?
From what I've witnessed personally I imagine you'll be giving us all extremely positive news next month after your follow up telomeres length tests!

Edited by tomnook, 16 January 2009 - 07:40 PM.

[VinceG]

Vince

I've been taking Astral Fruit on a 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle (as suggested by James A Green) for the past three months and have seen considerable new hair growth - both dark (my natural colour is dark brown) and grey hairs. I'm 54 yrs old and have been almost bald for the past twenty years or more - I began losing my hair in my late teens/early twenties with the grey appearing before I reached my mid-30's.

Not only have dozens of new hairs begun appearing on my scalp but I also noticed that some grey hairs on my wrist have entirely disappeared, additionally, body hair in other areas where I'm 99% sure there was some grey, has also reverted to brown. I can't say that I've noticed any other physical changes changes and no-one else has actually noticed/commented on any hair colour changes either. However, I've trimmed my hair after each of the 4-week cycles and placed the resulting cuttings in plastic wallets and a friend today placed them in the correct order of "apparent greyness"! There is certainly a significant difference between the cuttings after one month and those of months two and three.

I decided to adopt the 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle and removed the telomerase inhibitors mentioned by James A Green (no curcumin (turmeric), silymarin, garlic (allicin), melatonin, vitamin E, fish oil EPA, resveratrol, quercetin, green tea, ginseng) most of which I normally would take. During the second 2-wk period I have re-introduced the inhibitors and, obviously, ceased the astrgaloside IV. In fact I have a fairly similar supplement regimen to that of Simon007.

For the 2-wk "on" period I've been taking (at midday) 1 x33mg Astral Fruit, 250mg Calcium Ascorbate, Chitosan ( First 2-wk period 500mg (Now), second 2-wk period 250mg (Source Naturals), third 2-wk period 125mg (50% of a Source Naturals cap.) (I reduced the Chitosan due to comments/research given in earlier postings in this thread and others.)

Coincidentally, I had routine blood tests, a nutritional profile and male hormone panel run after the first 4-wk period - the results were all pretty much in-line with previous ones apart from my testosterone level which has always been high/normal (previous test in Feb 08) - this showed a decline of 50% to approximately the middle of the range. Testosterone is known to be related to male pattern baldness and I wonder if the reduction could have resulted in my new hair growth. I haven't noticed any decline in sex drive so perhaps the result was an anomaly! Lymphocytes were also slightly increased to high/normal however this level is not significantly greater than previous results.

Anthony, if you're reading this - I wonder if you've had any blood tests during the period which you've been taking Astral Fruit? Hormone panel?
From what I've witnessed personally I imagine you'll be giving us all extremely positive news next month after your follow up telomeres length tests!

Tomnook:
Thanks for your interesting posting. I have been thinking about switching to a schedule like yours but hate the idea of not taking nightly melatonin to help my sleep and giving up the powerful anti-oxidant, anti-glycating, cqancer-protective, etc., etc., effects of the substances mentioned for whole two week periods. I could change my mind in the future. I am a lot older than you, 79, and have had head hair loss since perhaps 40. Definitely there are new grey hairs growing on my head, a light fuzz now where there were very few a year or two ago. They are mostly grey though with perhaps 1 in 10 or 20 coming in black. Skin quality also seems to be excellent. . I am taking photos. No blood tests during the period. The latest ones were taken 6 months ago when I was taking astragalus extract but not Astral Fruit. I have scheduled some, however.
Vince

[ramos]

Vince

I've been taking Astral Fruit on a 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle (as suggested by James A Green) for the past three months and have seen considerable new hair growth - both dark (my natural colour is dark brown) and grey hairs. I'm 54 yrs old and have been almost bald for the past twenty years or more - I began losing my hair in my late teens/early twenties with the grey appearing before I reached my mid-30's.

Not only have dozens of new hairs begun appearing on my scalp but I also noticed that some grey hairs on my wrist have entirely disappeared, additionally, body hair in other areas where I'm 99% sure there was some grey, has also reverted to brown. I can't say that I've noticed any other physical changes changes and no-one else has actually noticed/commented on any hair colour changes either. However, I've trimmed my hair after each of the 4-week cycles and placed the resulting cuttings in plastic wallets and a friend today placed them in the correct order of "apparent greyness"! There is certainly a significant difference between the cuttings after one month and those of months two and three.

I decided to adopt the 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle and removed the telomerase inhibitors mentioned by James A Green (no curcumin (turmeric), silymarin, garlic (allicin), melatonin, vitamin E, fish oil EPA, resveratrol, quercetin, green tea, ginseng) most of which I normally would take. During the second 2-wk period I have re-introduced the inhibitors and, obviously, ceased the astrgaloside IV. In fact I have a fairly similar supplement regimen to that of Simon007.

For the 2-wk "on" period I've been taking (at midday) 1 x33mg Astral Fruit, 250mg Calcium Ascorbate, Chitosan ( First 2-wk period 500mg (Now), second 2-wk period 250mg (Source Naturals), third 2-wk period 125mg (50% of a Source Naturals cap.) (I reduced the Chitosan due to comments/research given in earlier postings in this thread and others.)

Coincidentally, I had routine blood tests, a nutritional profile and male hormone panel run after the first 4-wk period - the results were all pretty much in-line with previous ones apart from my testosterone level which has always been high/normal (previous test in Feb 08) - this showed a decline of 50% to approximately the middle of the range. Testosterone is known to be related to male pattern baldness and I wonder if the reduction could have resulted in my new hair growth. I haven't noticed any decline in sex drive so perhaps the result was an anomaly! Lymphocytes were also slightly increased to high/normal however this level is not significantly greater than previous results.

Anthony, if you're reading this - I wonder if you've had any blood tests during the period which you've been taking Astral Fruit? Hormone panel?
From what I've witnessed personally I imagine you'll be giving us all extremely positive news next month after your follow up telomeres length tests!

Tomnook:
Thanks for your interesting posting. I have been thinking about switching to a schedule like yours but hate the idea of not taking nightly melatonin to help my sleep and giving up the powerful anti-oxidant, anti-glycating, cqancer-protective, etc., etc., effects of the substances mentioned for whole two week periods. I could change my mind in the future. I am a lot older than you, 79, and have had head hair loss since perhaps 40. Definitely there are new grey hairs growing on my head, a light fuzz now where there were very few a year or two ago. They are mostly grey though with perhaps 1 in 10 or 20 coming in black. Skin quality also seems to be excellent. . I am taking photos. No blood tests during the period. The latest ones were taken 6 months ago when I was taking astragalus extract but not Astral Fruit. I have scheduled some, however.
Vince

Vince:
I am 73 and am taking Astral Fruit and micronized reservatrol for 43 days. Began experiencing nervousness three days ago. Also not sleeping through the night for about three weeks. Strangely, my hearing seems to be improving. My barber says I'm getting some new hairs on my balding top. I felt what seemed like a spark on my chest over my heart a few days ago and it repeated a few times afterwards. I stopped taking Astral Fruit two days ago and slept very well since. No sparks. Nervousness gone. Have the feeling of being very alive and feeling very well. Some of these symtoms may be associated with a variety of other meds that I am taking. Sorry to say no improvement in the sex area other than interest. I also feel very alert and seem to better able to concentrate. Have been advised by physician friends to wait for better scientific confirmations. I responded that I don't have the time. I think I will wait for Anthony's new formulation. Would appreciate other's input and advice.

[ampaynz1]

The nervousness might be from simply taking it for too long without a break. Try taking every 3 days, once a week, etc. I used to take L-carnosine 500mg daily. Did this for 5 years. However, when I took astral fruit or other saponin products I would get like a hypersensitivity reaction (no redness or edema) in the face. I guess you could say I was a little flustered. However, astral fruit did not affect my senses at all. I thought about this and decided to stop L-carnosine and this went away immediately after a few days. I take astral fruit every other day or third day and it doesn't really affect me now with any side effects. ß-alanyl-L-histidine is what makes up the structure of L-carnosine. By having excess histidine in the body could allow mast cells to be fully stored with histamine or maybe even have too much. My hypothesis is the excess histamine is what caused most of my troubles. Apparently, it got released at a very low level when by reacting with saponins. Also, the first day I took micronized resveratrol 500mg the skin on the back of my calf leg muscles became hypersensitive and touching something felt like itchy wool. After 3 days this feeling disappeared and I have now taken most of the bottle. Reseveratrol helps my body stay in balance. My dry eyes are gone, my dilated veins are smaller. I also have a dent on my head which is very minor and resverstrol helps it too. I did notice some hairs grow on the front scalp. It is only a few hairs, but I clearly know I never had any there or maybe I lost them and never noticed. They just popped up in the middle of area without hair at the temples. I am 32 years old.

[ampaynz1]

When the cycloastragenol forumula gets released I am definitely going to try it. If you listen to one of those old videos by TA Sciences about TA-65 the speaker says they choose their activator from the large Geron catalog of telomerase activators because it has best properties. As in good activation. I thought he said low side effects, but I listened to it and it does not mention this. This has been posted before, but here it isSENS conference TA-65

[bgwithadd]

I've never thought resveratrol was anything but sketchy and the french hypothesis is pretty much just bad science, and the idea of antioxidant age reduction just doesn't hold up well to reason; it could help but it's not going to do anything miraculous. This however, is amazingly promising. I'm not sure if I will get the available supp now or wait for an even better form, but something alone these has to be the ultimate solution to ending aging and we've finally made the first step.

[VinceG]

The nervousness might be from simply taking it for too long without a break. Try taking every 3 days, once a week, etc. I used to take L-carnosine 500mg daily. Did this for 5 years. However, when I took astral fruit or other saponin products I would get like a hypersensitivity reaction (no redness or edema) in the face. I guess you could say I was a little flustered. However, astral fruit did not affect my senses at all. I thought about this and decided to stop L-carnosine and this went away immediately after a few days. I take astral fruit every other day or third day and it doesn't really affect me now with any side effects. ß-alanyl-L-histidine is what makes up the structure of L-carnosine. By having excess histidine in the body could allow mast cells to be fully stored with histamine or maybe even have too much. My hypothesis is the excess histamine is what caused most of my troubles. Apparently, it got released at a very low level when by reacting with saponins. Also, the first day I took micronized resveratrol 500mg the skin on the back of my calf leg muscles became hypersensitive and touching something felt like itchy wool. After 3 days this feeling disappeared and I have now taken most of the bottle. Reseveratrol helps my body stay in balance. My dry eyes are gone, my dilated veins are smaller. I also have a dent on my head which is very minor and resverstrol helps it too. I did notice some hairs grow on the front scalp. It is only a few hairs, but I clearly know I never had any there or maybe I lost them and never noticed. They just popped up in the middle of area without hair at the temples. I am 32 years old.

ampaynz1 I find this discussion interesting. I have had no sleep-loss or nervousness effect from taking Astral Fruit (2 caps, mid-afternoon) along with L-carnosine and resveratrol and several other supplements morning and evening. Nor has my wife. My regimen is that recommended in my anti-aging firewalls document http://www.vincegiul...ngfirewalls.htm. Being much older, 79, I apparently don't have an issue with excess histidine.

[Johan]

Anthony_Loera, how are your telomeres? It's almost six months since the last test, right?

[bdelfin]

Anthony_Loera, how are your telomeres? It's almost six months since the last test, right?

The date on his test was August 15, and it took a few weeks for him to get the results and post them. Which makes six months Feb. 15, plus a few weeks. Assuming that he can find the time, since he'll be dealing with the launch of the new Astragalus supplement.

[Anthony_Loera]

bdelfin is right,

it did take 2-3 weeks for me to get the tests back from the Canadian lab.

A

[Anthony_Loera]

Quick Update,

the first attempt to extract cycloastragenol has left us with a few issues that we need to resolve before we can offer it to the public. We will resume our Astragaloside IV with Chitosan formulation until we can resolve the issues. We basically need to make some additional investments to bring this to market as it is getting quite expensive to produce.

So what happened to the initial batch produced?
It was sent to a university in Southern California for research.


Cheers
A

[mikeinnaples]

For best results, take at least 3 hours after Resveratrol or any of the natural chelators and Telomerase inhibitors below:

Curcumin
Resveratrol
Quercetin
Melatonin
Green tea
cacao
Alliicin (garlic)
Silymarin

Evening for me is Resveratrol, Curcumin, Green Tea, Cacao, Melatonin (later), IP6 ...so if I take Astral Fruit in the morning before work I should be good. I also know I should probably drop the morning fish oil as well (and will).



However in the morning I also am taking:

Benfotiamine, Na-RALA, Astaxanthin, D3, ALCAR, Piracetam, Magnesium, Beta-Alanine, Nicotinic Acid (500mg), Choline, Bilberry, C, Selegiline Citrate, Metformin, Simvastatin



I am beginning to think I may need to drop other things from the AM besides what was recommended above.

[kai73]

Quick Update,

the first attempt to extract cycloastragenol has left us with a few issues that we need to resolve before we can offer it to the public. We will resume our Astragaloside IV with Chitosan formulation until we can resolve the issues. We basically need to make some additional investments to bring this to market as it is getting quite expensive to produce.

So what happened to the initial batch produced?
It was sent to a university in Southern California for research.


Cheers
A

are the tests on astragalus ready to see if it really affect telom? i remember you were waiting for results for february.