14 replies to this topic

[lindatall2]

Hi,
I'm a 58 year old woman with an incredibly stressful and demanding job. I recently moved to California to kind of "start over." My short term memory, ability to concentrate, even remember meetings and/or faces of people I just met has been very, very poor and very scary. I don't recall ever not being able to remember a face...names, yes, but now I don't recognize a face unless i've met that person a couple of times. I try and remember that over a period of 2 weeks I was introduced to a couple of dozen people and I'm in a highly visible position, so people reach out to me quite a bit.

I don't know what I'm more anxious over, my ability to remember or just the job itself. Needless to say I've been researching what I can do from a supplement perspective that could help. After reading several books I've been taking the following for several weeks:

Dr Wyeth Multi
Omega 3 Fish Oil - 6 grams/day
Gingko - 30 mgs/2x day
Piracetam 800 mgs/3x day
Lecithin - 2400 mgs/3x day
Olmifon (adrifinal) 30 mgs/1x day

I also just bought choline, Vit C and E to add as well. I noticed the greatest improvement in my ability to both concentrate and recall, with the piracetam/adrifinal combination.

I just bought Deprynel and would like to add that as it seems to be such a wonder drug for anti-aging and memory, but I've been taking 300 mg of Wellbutrin for many years for depression and when I've tried to go off, my mood just completely tanks. I also take Klonopin for anxiety (no more than 1 mg a day) and Ambien for sleeping (boy, don't I sound like a wreck).

I'd love any thoughts on what I'm taking...but obviously the interaction of Deprynel with the Wellbutrin is my immediate issue...should I or shouldn't I add? How safe and what's the short and long term risks?

thanks, this site is just so helpful.

[unbreakable]

Wellbutrin (Bupropion) + Deprenyl (Selegiline) is an unsafe combination. Adding an MAO-B inhibitor to a noradrenaline/dopamine reuptake-inhibitor is very risky.

Edited by unbreakable, 17 January 2008 - 10:00 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

The combination is contraindicated to the hilt in the literature, so don't ever try it. That disclaimer aside, I've taken a low dose of 2.5mg deprenyl + 150mg wellbutrin with very positive results for a period of time. However, the dopaminergic boost from multiple angles there slowly snuck up on me, and while I was continuing to enjoy excellent concentration and motivation to pursue goals, I eventually began to get a bit OCD'ish and felt generally unsettled and ill at ease. I attribute that to pushing the serotonin vs. dopamine axis too far in the dopamine direction. Consequently I dropped the deprenyl and am back to a single 150mg wellbutrin sr in the morning.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 17 January 2008 - 03:43 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Another thought just occurred to me. You could very well be causing this memory impairment yourself with the klonopin and ambien. There are many people that suffer short-term memory loss from both of those drugs individually, and you are combining them both. Deprenyl can cause anxiety in the anxiety-prone, so between that and the fact that you are on wellbutrin, I would advise against it. Instead, I suggest you look for ways to wean off the GABAergic drugs that are likely the root cause of your memory problems.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 17 January 2008 - 03:55 PM.

[lucid]

I believe you only need 1mg of Deprenyl to get the anti-aging benefits, and any more is counter-productive. At heavier doses deprenyl can be used to fight depresssion among other illnesses. At 1 mg Deprenyl shouldn't have much of any MOA-B effect on dopamine, so you would probably be OK. I would still be careful and wouldn't do anything without discussing it with a real doctor, screwing around with your head can be dangerous. I'm not sure why deprenyl isn't prescribed more often to treat depression. Maybe there is some story there, the studies I have seen have been very favorable.

[niner]

Lindatall2, It's pretty clear that you're under a lot of stress. That by itself could be the cause of your memory and concentration problems. The klonopin and ambien may or may not be making it worse; I lean toward "may", for what it's worth. (I've used both) The reason I'm posting this is mostly to reassure you that you don't have some sort of dementia brewing, and that things will probably be fine after a while. In the meantime, I'd like to see you exercising as much as you can squeeze into your probably hectic schedule. Try to go easy with caffeine and alcohol.

[edward]

Definitely consider talking to your doctor about the Klonopin maybe he/she can suggest some other anti-anxiety med that has less potential to affect memory, SSRIs, Buspar or what have you, just make sure its not a benzodiazepine, or GABAergic compound. Personally taking Ambien at night has not affected my memory, however taking Lunesta (ezopiclone) did affect it. What you don't want is to not sleep during the time you are changing from Klonopin so my advice is to keep on the Ambien until you get the other issue worked out.

Klonopin has a very long half life so regardless of when you take it, it will be with you all day and night to some extent. Note that the Adrafinil might be helping because of in this case it is blunting some of Klonopin's GABA effects, so my thought is if you get off Klonopin, switch a non GABAergic anti-anxiety med you will be amazed at how your memory will come back. Again don't do this on your own, go to and talk with the healthcare provider that has prescribed you these meds (benzo withdrawl can be difficult experience)

Edited by edward, 18 January 2008 - 04:19 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I think she may have forgotten that she posted here and to come back and reply. Oh, the irony!

[lindatall2]

I think she may have forgotten that she posted here and to come back and reply. Oh, the irony!

Hi,
I'm a 58 year old woman with an incredibly stressful and demanding job. I recently moved to California to kind of "start over." My short term memory, ability to concentrate, even remember meetings and/or faces of people I just met has been very, very poor and very scary. I don't recall ever not being able to remember a face...names, yes, but now I don't recognize a face unless i've met that person a couple of times. I try and remember that over a period of 2 weeks I was introduced to a couple of dozen people and I'm in a highly visible position, so people reach out to me quite a bit.

I don't know what I'm more anxious over, my ability to remember or just the job itself. Needless to say I've been researching what I can do from a supplement perspective that could help. After reading several books I've been taking the following for several weeks:

Dr Wyeth Multi
Omega 3 Fish Oil - 6 grams/day
Gingko - 30 mgs/2x day
Piracetam 800 mgs/3x day
Lecithin - 2400 mgs/3x day
Olmifon (adrifinal) 30 mgs/1x day

I also just bought choline, Vit C and E to add as well. I noticed the greatest improvement in my ability to both concentrate and recall, with the piracetam/adrifinal combination.

I just bought Deprynel and would like to add that as it seems to be such a wonder drug for anti-aging and memory, but I've been taking 300 mg of Wellbutrin for many years for depression and when I've tried to go off, my mood just completely tanks. I also take Klonopin for anxiety (no more than 1 mg a day) and Ambien for sleeping (boy, don't I sound like a wreck).

I'd love any thoughts on what I'm taking...but obviously the interaction of Deprynel with the Wellbutrin is my immediate issue...should I or shouldn't I add? How safe and what's the short and long term risks?

thanks, this site is just so helpful.

[speda1]

If you are already taking wellbutrin, I don't think boosting dopamine further is going to enhance your memory.

Instead, I would look at boosting acetylcholine: dmae, cdp choline etc.

[graatch]

The supps may be helpful, but you NEED to fix your chronic stress, which has atrophied your hippocampus.

I hope you exercise already.

[yoyo]

Has anyone used both bupropion and selegiline and can compare the effects?

[dclear]

The concurrent use of Deprenyl and Wellbutrin is contraindicated, but isn't unheard of. I took 450 mg of Wellbutrin XL in combination with 10mg of Deprenyl for about three months with no problem. I am currently at 150mg of Wellbutrin XL with 10mg of Deprenyl, and 5-10mg of generic Adderall, still with no adverse effects, despite their contraindications. Deprenyl is a fairly safe medication, especially at lower dosages. Personaly, I wouldn't be to worried about the combination. That said, I am not a doctor, and everyone responds differently to these substances.

One thing to consider is that Wellbutrin is an activating drug, and can increase agitation and anxiety. This could be adding to your stress related problems. As long as you are willing to look at supplements, you may want to look at somthing like 5-htp, which has calming properties. You may also wish to look into a non sedating anxiolytic like buspar, or, as long as you are buying things like this online, something like tianeptine. You could also try adding a good vitamin B supplement, which can help with mental clarity. Along with your C and E supplementation, it may be wise to take a good multi-vitamin (if you are not already doing so). Many people rarely get the amount of vitamins and minerals they require in their everyday diet, and it should be kept in mind that even if you eat something that has "100%" of your daily value, it doesn't mean it will all be absorbed, and the "100%" is really just a minimum daily recommended intake. Most vitamins and minerals can be taken safely in excess, as your body will simply get rid of what it doesn't need, however, i emphasize most, not all.

I don't have any experience with Klonapin, so I cant help there, but I do fine with Ambien. One thing to consider with Ambien is what type you are taking, and how will it works for you. If you are taking the non-sustained release form, and find your self waking up in the middle of the night, you should consider Ambien CR. its pricier, but (in my experience) its worth it.

From a psychological standpoint, it sounds like you may be over exerting yourself. Try to find some time here and there to relax and do something you enjoy. It cant be emphasized enough just how important this is, not only for your physical, but also your emotional health.

I hope this has been helpful!


-DC

[dclear]

An additional thought: (sorry for the rambling.)
I wouldn't say that you sound like a wreck, what you are experiencing is fairly common. From a phylogenetic standpoint, the prefrontal cortex (regarded as the seat of consciousness) is the newest development in the human brain. It is also one of the most integrated, complex, and universally activated parts of the brain. Given this fact, problems involving the frontal cortex (and conscious awareness) are common, and widely implicated. It really has to do with the complexity and interconnectivity of the region; in other words, this area is especially vulnerable to environmental factors, including any variety of stressors. Depression and anxiety problems are some of the most common and universal issues in health today. It's quite 'normal.'

-DC

[Ben]

Ok firstly this site: http://dailymed.nlm....nfo.cfm?id=4960, is telling me that Anafranil shouldn't be used with an mao inhibitor (deprenyl).

Anafranil should not be given in combination, or within 14 days before or after treatment, with a monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitor. Hyperpyretic crisis, seizures, coma, and death have been reported in patients receiving such combinations.

If this is only important for mao-a inhibitors then you should be fine as I'm pretty certain that deprenyl inhibits only mao-b at doses below 10mg.

Also, I'm wondering if you've tried some other methods to improve your sleeping? Such as good sleep hygiene and maybe a melatonin stack? Melatonin production reduces radically as one ages.