32 replies to this topic

[OneScrewLoose]

Is there a quality difference from brand to brand? Also, should I worry about ingesting vitamin B6 when I take this? Did any of that worry turn out to be true?

[Advanc3d]

theres extract 5-htp and synthetic
i think all commercial 5-htp is extract

b6 will cause 5-htp to be converted to serotonin in the blood
serotonin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but 5-htp does

its best to take 5-htp with no b6 on an empty stomach

actually its best to take 5-htp with EGCG (green tea) as egcg inhibits the enzyme responsible in the convertion of 5-htp to serotonin in the gut.
so more 5-htp get in to the brain and THEN coverted to serotonin. this is what we want


NOTE:
do not take 5-htp daily for a long time. as this causes depleted dopamine.
also
if you take 5-htp at night, take tyrosine in the morning aswell, i think this is a good idea

Edited by Advanc3d, 27 September 2008 - 04:09 AM.

[ajnast4r]

most extracts are in the 50-80% pure range... which is not desirable. NOW foods makes a 99% extract which is also tested free of peak-X... the NOW brand 5htp is great quality and its cheap, there's no reason not to use i


i think the issues with b6 and 5htp are over-played, i take b6 every day and never found it diminished the effects of 5htp... i would, however, not take them at the same time. ive found 5htp is most effective when taken on an empty stomach, so ingesting simultaneously with b6 should not be an issue.


i also would agree not to take 5htp for a long time... there are way better solutions for managing mild depression (im assuming thats what youre using it for)... check out my posts on st johns wort.

[OneScrewLoose]

Why shouldn't I take this for a long period of time? Can someone link to the study(s) showing depleted dopamine? How long is "a long period of time?"

[daetake]

I'd stick with the NOW brand if you're using 5-htp. I've tried others and nothing compares to the NOW brand. Some of the other brands are more of a brownish color, instead of the white crystalline type like in NOW.

In regard to the b6 with 5-htp, I would avoid taking b6 with it at the same time. I would not worry about the whole cardiac fibrosis thing though. There have been no cases of 5-htp ever causing any cardiac fibrosis. I know you'll read about it ALL over the internet, but there is absolutely no basis for it. It's all from this newsletter by a Dr. Harris and his "Green Banana Award".

I can get some refs later if you want them about 5-htp not causing any liver, heart, etc. abnormalities from trials.

As far as taking it for a long period of time... it eventually stopped working for me after about 2 months. It still works if I take it on an occasional basis. While I don't have studies showing it right now (I don't have much time at the moment), here is a quote I found somewhere that's from some book (I think it might be the 5-htp book by Michael Murray):

"In the early 1970s, Herman van Praag, M.D., and colleagues discovered that about one out of five patients who responded well to 5-HTP tended to relapse after one month of treatment. The antidepressant effects of 5-HTP in these subjects began to wear off gradually after the first month despite the fact that the level of 5-HTP in their blood, and presumably the level of serotonin in the brain, remained at the same level as when they were experiencing a benefit. These researchers discovered that, while serotonin levels appeared to stay at the same levels after one month of treatment, the levels of the other important monoamine neurotransmitters, dopamine and norepinephrine, declined. These patients responded to supplemental tyrosine."

Mind if I ask what you want to take it for?

[OneScrewLoose]

I'd stick with the NOW brand if you're using 5-htp. I've tried others and nothing compares to the NOW brand. Some of the other brands are more of a brownish color, instead of the white crystalline type like in NOW.

In regard to the b6 with 5-htp, I would avoid taking b6 with it at the same time. I would not worry about the whole cardiac fibrosis thing though. There have been no cases of 5-htp ever causing any cardiac fibrosis. I know you'll read about it ALL over the internet, but there is absolutely no basis for it. It's all from this newsletter by a Dr. Harris and his "Green Banana Award".

I can get some refs later if you want them about 5-htp not causing any liver, heart, etc. abnormalities from trials.

As far as taking it for a long period of time... it eventually stopped working for me after about 2 months. It still works if I take it on an occasional basis. While I don't have studies showing it right now (I don't have much time at the moment), here is a quote I found somewhere that's from some book (I think it might be the 5-htp book by Michael Murray):

"In the early 1970s, Herman van Praag, M.D., and colleagues discovered that about one out of five patients who responded well to 5-HTP tended to relapse after one month of treatment. The antidepressant effects of 5-HTP in these subjects began to wear off gradually after the first month despite the fact that the level of 5-HTP in their blood, and presumably the level of serotonin in the brain, remained at the same level as when they were experiencing a benefit. These researchers discovered that, while serotonin levels appeared to stay at the same levels after one month of treatment, the levels of the other important monoamine neurotransmitters, dopamine and norepinephrine, declined. These patients responded to supplemental tyrosine."

Mind if I ask what you want to take it for?

Anxiety and sleep. It will only be temporary though, as I am doing some other treatments for what is supposedly the real source of my anxiety. I'll explain more later.

[Bghead8che]

theres extract 5-htp and synthetic
i think all commercial 5-htp is extract

b6 will cause 5-htp to be converted to serotonin in the blood
serotonin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but 5-htp does

its best to take 5-htp with no b6 on an empty stomach

actually its best to take 5-htp with EGCG (green tea) as egcg inhibits the enzyme responsible in the convertion of 5-htp to serotonin in the gut.
so more 5-htp get in to the brain and THEN coverted to serotonin. this is what we want


NOTE:
do not take 5-htp daily for a long time. as this causes depleted dopamine.
also
if you take 5-htp at night, take tyrosine in the morning aswell, i think this is a good idea

I take 200mg of 5-HTP two days a week and 2000mg of L-Tryptophan the other 3 days of week on a empty stomach. I take Saturdays and Sundays off. I'm wondering if I would be better off taking the supplements for a period of several weeks straight and then a few weeks off. I wonder which would be more effective? I am taking the supps for depression and anxiety.

Obviously SSRIs would not work with a 5 day on two day off schedule or 4 weeks on 1 week off so I am a little confused as to the best way to supplement 5-HTP/Trypto. I can definately say that for me SSRIs were more effective and I am on a fairly intensive anti-depressant supplement cocktail right now.

I've never heard of Green Tea being taken with 5-HTP for the reasons you mentioned. I don't see how it could possibly help stop absorption by the gut and increase BBB crossing at the same time. Can you provide a reference or source because I am worried about the B6 and 5-HTP conversion. Ironically B6 is required for serotonin production.

-Brian

[Bghead8che]

theres extract 5-htp and synthetic
i think all commercial 5-htp is extract

b6 will cause 5-htp to be converted to serotonin in the blood
serotonin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but 5-htp does

its best to take 5-htp with no b6 on an empty stomach

actually its best to take 5-htp with EGCG (green tea) as egcg inhibits the enzyme responsible in the convertion of 5-htp to serotonin in the gut.
so more 5-htp get in to the brain and THEN coverted to serotonin. this is what we want


NOTE:
do not take 5-htp daily for a long time. as this causes depleted dopamine.
also
if you take 5-htp at night, take tyrosine in the morning aswell, i think this is a good idea

I take 200mg of 5-HTP two days a week and 2000mg of L-Tryptophan the other 3 days of week on a empty stomach. I take Saturdays and Sundays off. I'm wondering if I would be better off taking the supplements for a period of several weeks straight and then a few weeks off. I wonder which would be more effective? I am taking the supps for depression and anxiety.

Obviously SSRIs would not work with a 5 day on two day off schedule or 4 weeks on 1 week off so I am a little confused as to the best way to supplement 5-HTP/Trypto. I can definately say that for me SSRIs were more effective and I am on a fairly intensive anti-depressant supplement cocktail right now.

I've never heard of Green Tea being taken with 5-HTP for the reasons you mentioned. I don't see how it could possibly help stop absorption by the gut and increase BBB crossing at the same time. Can you provide a reference or source because I am worried about the B6 and 5-HTP conversion. Ironically B6 is required for serotonin production.

-Brian

OK, I see that Green Tea is a mild decarboxylase inhibitor which would in theory increase the plasma levels of 5-HTP. While there is the possibility it increases 5-HTP levels I could not find any studies or evidence that taking Green Tea inhibits absorption in the gut.

Is it true the L-DOPA is usually taken with 5-HTP in Europe and many clinical trials? I'm REALLY starting to question the long-term safety of 5-HTP given the dearth of safety studies.

I like your green tea theory. What do other's think? It is a worthy combo and would it enchance absorption and/or safety of 5-HTP?

-Brian

P.S. Why the heck can I not edit any of my posts? The Edit button is gone.

[daetake]

OK, I see that Green Tea is a mild decarboxylase inhibitor which would in theory increase the plasma levels of 5-HTP. While there is the possibility it increases 5-HTP levels I could not find any studies or evidence that taking Green Tea inhibits absorption in the gut.

Is it true the L-DOPA is usually taken with 5-HTP in Europe and many clinical trials? I'm REALLY starting to question the long-term safety of 5-HTP given the dearth of safety studies.

I like your green tea theory. What do other's think? It is a worthy combo and would it enchance absorption and/or safety of 5-HTP?

-Brian

P.S. Why the heck can I not edit any of my posts? The Edit button is gone.

Do you mean carbidopa being taken with 5-htp? I've read some cases where that is the case. You don't need a PDI in order for 5-htp to work though. If anything, taking it with carbidopa increases side effects like nausea and some scleroderma illness type of thing (1).

That's probably not the case with the green tea though. That would be interesting to find out. You should get some green tea extract and test it out . I couldn't find any numbers on the dopa decarboxylase activity of green tea, only histidine (60%).(2) It apparently also has some effects on ornithine decarboxylase (3).


[1]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6997735
[2]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14521154
[3]http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a785830479~db=all

Anyway, the green tea thing might be interesting, but from my experience and reading you don't need a PDI for 5-htp to be effective. In my opinion, I wouldn't worry about the b6. If you have a decent diet, you most likely get enough b6 from your diet alone without any supplementation. I think it's just 3mg of b6 that's needed for 5-htp or Trp conversions.

[Wedrifid]

P.S. Why the heck can I not edit any of my posts? The Edit button is gone.

Only the cool kids (navigators, I believe it says) can edit their posts after a time limit. It's a pain in the butt!

[kenj]

The B6 +5-HTP controversy is one stubborn tell tale ISTM, - in fact you *want* B6 (and other B vitamins) to be taken simultaneously with 5-HTP for greater serotonin production in the brain and body.
Been taking 5-HTP (doses of 25-200mg) with B vitamins for many years on and off, no problems, - ISTM this scarecrow will stay strong as long as we have a pharmaceutical company or som'thin, - we wouldn't want the 5-HTP to actually be effective, now would we? ;-).

[Advanc3d]

Green tea polyphenols: novel irreversible inhibitors of dopa decarboxylase.

The green tea gallocatechins, (-)-epigallocatechin-3-O-gallate (EGCG), and (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC) were found to be inhibitors of Dopa decarboxylase (DDC). EGCG and EGC inactivate the enzyme in both a time- and concentration-dependent manner and exhibit saturation of the rate of inactivation at high concentrations, with efficiency of inactivation values (k(inact)/K(i)) of 868 and 1511 M(-1) min(-1), respectively. In contrast, gallic acid behaves as a weak inhibitor of DDC. Protection against inactivation by EGCG and EGC was observed in the presence of the active site-directed inhibitor D-Dopa. Either EGCG or EGC induce changes in the absorbance and CD bands of the visible spectrum of enzyme-bound PLP. Taken together, these findings indicate the active site nature of the interaction of DDC with both polyphenols. On the basis of the properties of the EGCG-inactivated enzyme, it can be suggested that inactivation could be ascribed to a covalent modification of not yet identified residue(s) of the active site of DDC. Copyright 2001 Academic Press.

[Advanc3d]

guys,

half-life of pyridoxine, VITAMIN B6 is 15-20 days, excess b6 has a half life of about an hour before you piss it out.

taking 5-htp with b6 at the same time is a bad idea as b6 activates DDC in the gut and breaks down 5-htp making it useless for any benefits. DDC breaking it down will increase serotonin in the blood, not in the brain! this will cause hypertension and bad side effects.

taking 5-htp without b6 will take 5-htp in to the brain, where there is that B6 storage, remember that b6 storage doesnt get depleted unless you eat a b6 defficent diet for 3-6weeks!!!
then DDC in the brain will convert it to serotonin...

do i need to make anything else clear?

[Advanc3d]

theres extract 5-htp and synthetic
i think all commercial 5-htp is extract

b6 will cause 5-htp to be converted to serotonin in the blood
serotonin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but 5-htp does

its best to take 5-htp with no b6 on an empty stomach

actually its best to take 5-htp with EGCG (green tea) as egcg inhibits the enzyme responsible in the convertion of 5-htp to serotonin in the gut.
so more 5-htp get in to the brain and THEN coverted to serotonin. this is what we want


NOTE:
do not take 5-htp daily for a long time. as this causes depleted dopamine.
also
if you take 5-htp at night, take tyrosine in the morning aswell, i think this is a good idea

I take 200mg of 5-HTP two days a week and 2000mg of L-Tryptophan the other 3 days of week on a empty stomach. I take Saturdays and Sundays off. I'm wondering if I would be better off taking the supplements for a period of several weeks straight and then a few weeks off. I wonder which would be more effective? I am taking the supps for depression and anxiety.

Obviously SSRIs would not work with a 5 day on two day off schedule or 4 weeks on 1 week off so I am a little confused as to the best way to supplement 5-HTP/Trypto. I can definately say that for me SSRIs were more effective and I am on a fairly intensive anti-depressant supplement cocktail right now.

I've never heard of Green Tea being taken with 5-HTP for the reasons you mentioned. I don't see how it could possibly help stop absorption by the gut and increase BBB crossing at the same time. Can you provide a reference or source because I am worried about the B6 and 5-HTP conversion. Ironically B6 is required for serotonin production.

-Brian

OK, I see that Green Tea is a mild decarboxylase inhibitor which would in theory increase the plasma levels of 5-HTP. While there is the possibility it increases 5-HTP levels I could not find any studies or evidence that taking Green Tea inhibits absorption in the gut.

Is it true the L-DOPA is usually taken with 5-HTP in Europe and many clinical trials? I'm REALLY starting to question the long-term safety of 5-HTP given the dearth of safety studies.

I like your green tea theory. What do other's think? It is a worthy combo and would it enchance absorption and/or safety of 5-HTP?

-Brian

P.S. Why the heck can I not edit any of my posts? The Edit button is gone.

taking
l-dopa with 5-htp together is retarded, they will inhibit each others absorption, they are competative,
they both use DDC as an enzyme to be converted.
DDC is a rate limiting enzyme too (wikipedia as a referance)

this is why they say,
serotonin precursors at night
dopamine precursors in the morning.

always live by that rule or you end up with unbalanced levels and depression!
5-htp might sound like a anti depressants but its not in long term, serious depletion of dopamine will happen if daily use of 5-htp is continued with no dopamine precursors taken.

[OneScrewLoose]

theres extract 5-htp and synthetic
i think all commercial 5-htp is extract

b6 will cause 5-htp to be converted to serotonin in the blood
serotonin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but 5-htp does

its best to take 5-htp with no b6 on an empty stomach

actually its best to take 5-htp with EGCG (green tea) as egcg inhibits the enzyme responsible in the convertion of 5-htp to serotonin in the gut.
so more 5-htp get in to the brain and THEN coverted to serotonin. this is what we want


NOTE:
do not take 5-htp daily for a long time. as this causes depleted dopamine.
also
if you take 5-htp at night, take tyrosine in the morning aswell, i think this is a good idea

I take 200mg of 5-HTP two days a week and 2000mg of L-Tryptophan the other 3 days of week on a empty stomach. I take Saturdays and Sundays off. I'm wondering if I would be better off taking the supplements for a period of several weeks straight and then a few weeks off. I wonder which would be more effective? I am taking the supps for depression and anxiety.

Obviously SSRIs would not work with a 5 day on two day off schedule or 4 weeks on 1 week off so I am a little confused as to the best way to supplement 5-HTP/Trypto. I can definately say that for me SSRIs were more effective and I am on a fairly intensive anti-depressant supplement cocktail right now.

I've never heard of Green Tea being taken with 5-HTP for the reasons you mentioned. I don't see how it could possibly help stop absorption by the gut and increase BBB crossing at the same time. Can you provide a reference or source because I am worried about the B6 and 5-HTP conversion. Ironically B6 is required for serotonin production.

-Brian

OK, I see that Green Tea is a mild decarboxylase inhibitor which would in theory increase the plasma levels of 5-HTP. While there is the possibility it increases 5-HTP levels I could not find any studies or evidence that taking Green Tea inhibits absorption in the gut.

Is it true the L-DOPA is usually taken with 5-HTP in Europe and many clinical trials? I'm REALLY starting to question the long-term safety of 5-HTP given the dearth of safety studies.

I like your green tea theory. What do other's think? It is a worthy combo and would it enchance absorption and/or safety of 5-HTP?

-Brian

P.S. Why the heck can I not edit any of my posts? The Edit button is gone.

taking
l-dopa with 5-htp together is retarded, they will inhibit each others absorption, they are competative,
they both use DDC as an enzyme to be converted.
DDC is a rate limiting enzyme too (wikipedia as a referance)

this is why they say,
serotonin precursors at night
dopamine precursors in the morning.

always live by that rule or you end up with unbalanced levels and depression!
5-htp might sound like a anti depressants but its not in long term, serious depletion of dopamine will happen if daily use of 5-htp is continued with no dopamine precursors taken.

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

[daetake]

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

Have you tried phenylalanine?

[OneScrewLoose]

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

Have you tried phenylalanine?

No, I just read up on it though. Maybe I should give it a shot. The thing is though I've been told I'm at risk for schizophrenia by a psychiatrist, so I am weary of increasing dopamine. I've also had to actively fight the schizo-typical ego-centric delusions in the past. Weed and coke both make me feel shitty. But then again I've had ADD since I was little, and have an essential tremor...It's all very confusing. Is it possible that I could have a high level of dopamine in the brain, but for one reason or another certain dopamine receptors, specifically related to attention, are understimulated?

[daetake]

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

Have you tried phenylalanine?

No, I just read up on it though. Maybe I should give it a shot. The thing is though I've been told I'm at risk for schizophrenia by a psychiatrist, so I am weary of increasing dopamine. I've also had to actively fight the schizo-typical ego-centric delusions in the past. Weed and coke both make me feel shitty. But then again I've had ADD since I was little, and have an essential tremor...It's all very confusing. Is it possible that I could have a high level of dopamine in the brain, but for one reason or another certain dopamine receptors, specifically related to attention, are understimulated?

I'm sure it's quite possible. I wouldn't know any specifics on the subject though.

My psych at one point thought that I may have been developing mild forms of schizophrenia, and it had been running in my family. I kind of bought into this and tried to stay away from anything that would increase dopamine. After a while I concluded that that wasn't the problem, but I just had a bit of of a major case of anxiety (GABA problem - less GABA production = more neurotransmitter excitability). No wonder benzo addiction runs wild in my family.

I had (have) similar problems with the ego-centric type of anxiety ("everyone is out to get me"), but again, I found it was probably more of a low GABA and probably Serotonin problem causing the excitability rather than being schizophrenia.

I'm actually on a dopamine cocktail right now which I take in the morning and then take tryptophan at night and feeling a lot better (I realize this wouldn't directly impact GABA functioning). I'm working out some other things to work on GABA that I will introduce in my stacks later, if needed. I find the DA cocktail gives me a lot more confidence and helps quite a bit with the anxiety problems (which one would normally think would exacerbate the problems).

While I don't know any of your specific symptoms or what stimuli causes it, have you considered it may be more of a GABA/Serotonin problem causing excessive neuronal excitability rather than schizophrenia? (side note: Do you know how you react to PEA? Some think high PEA levels might have something to do with schizophrenia)

[OneScrewLoose]

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

Have you tried phenylalanine?

No, I just read up on it though. Maybe I should give it a shot. The thing is though I've been told I'm at risk for schizophrenia by a psychiatrist, so I am weary of increasing dopamine. I've also had to actively fight the schizo-typical ego-centric delusions in the past. Weed and coke both make me feel shitty. But then again I've had ADD since I was little, and have an essential tremor...It's all very confusing. Is it possible that I could have a high level of dopamine in the brain, but for one reason or another certain dopamine receptors, specifically related to attention, are understimulated?

I'm sure it's quite possible. I wouldn't know any specifics on the subject though.

My psych at one point thought that I may have been developing mild forms of schizophrenia, and it had been running in my family. I kind of bought into this and tried to stay away from anything that would increase dopamine. After a while I concluded that that wasn't the problem, but I just had a bit of of a major case of anxiety (GABA problem - less GABA production = more neurotransmitter excitability). No wonder benzo addiction runs wild in my family.

I had (have) similar problems with the ego-centric type of anxiety ("everyone is out to get me"), but again, I found it was probably more of a low GABA and probably Serotonin problem causing the excitability rather than being schizophrenia.

I'm actually on a dopamine cocktail right now which I take in the morning and then take tryptophan at night and feeling a lot better (I realize this wouldn't directly impact GABA functioning). I'm working out some other things to work on GABA that I will introduce in my stacks later, if needed. I find the DA cocktail gives me a lot more confidence and helps quite a bit with the anxiety problems (which one would normally think would exacerbate the problems).

While I don't know any of your specific symptoms or what stimuli causes it, have you considered it may be more of a GABA/Serotonin problem causing excessive neuronal excitability rather than schizophrenia? (side note: Do you know how you react to PEA? Some think high PEA levels might have something to do with schizophrenia)

I don't know how I react to PEA. The next thing I am adding to my stack at the moment is 5-HTP at night. I am on a low-dose of celexa, which helps my anxiety, so serotonin is an issue. The problem is, every SSRI I've ever tried makes my essential tremor worse. And since it's a factor, my sister has schizophrenia.

[Advanc3d]

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

Have you tried phenylalanine?

No, I just read up on it though. Maybe I should give it a shot. The thing is though I've been told I'm at risk for schizophrenia by a psychiatrist, so I am weary of increasing dopamine. I've also had to actively fight the schizo-typical ego-centric delusions in the past. Weed and coke both make me feel shitty. But then again I've had ADD since I was little, and have an essential tremor...It's all very confusing. Is it possible that I could have a high level of dopamine in the brain, but for one reason or another certain dopamine receptors, specifically related to attention, are understimulated?

I'm sure it's quite possible. I wouldn't know any specifics on the subject though.

My psych at one point thought that I may have been developing mild forms of schizophrenia, and it had been running in my family. I kind of bought into this and tried to stay away from anything that would increase dopamine. After a while I concluded that that wasn't the problem, but I just had a bit of of a major case of anxiety (GABA problem - less GABA production = more neurotransmitter excitability). No wonder benzo addiction runs wild in my family.

I had (have) similar problems with the ego-centric type of anxiety ("everyone is out to get me"), but again, I found it was probably more of a low GABA and probably Serotonin problem causing the excitability rather than being schizophrenia.

I'm actually on a dopamine cocktail right now which I take in the morning and then take tryptophan at night and feeling a lot better (I realize this wouldn't directly impact GABA functioning). I'm working out some other things to work on GABA that I will introduce in my stacks later, if needed. I find the DA cocktail gives me a lot more confidence and helps quite a bit with the anxiety problems (which one would normally think would exacerbate the problems).

While I don't know any of your specific symptoms or what stimuli causes it, have you considered it may be more of a GABA/Serotonin problem causing excessive neuronal excitability rather than schizophrenia? (side note: Do you know how you react to PEA? Some think high PEA levels might have something to do with schizophrenia)

I don't know how I react to PEA. The next thing I am adding to my stack at the moment is 5-HTP at night. I am on a low-dose of celexa, which helps my anxiety, so serotonin is an issue. The problem is, every SSRI I've ever tried makes my essential tremor worse. And since it's a factor, my sister has schizophrenia.

all i have experienced with PEA is negative results.
terrible headaches with any dose range, with or without selegiline.

how are you going to add 5-htp to a SSRI.
isnt that combination a suicide mix?

[Advanc3d]

theres extract 5-htp and synthetic
i think all commercial 5-htp is extract

b6 will cause 5-htp to be converted to serotonin in the blood
serotonin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but 5-htp does

its best to take 5-htp with no b6 on an empty stomach

actually its best to take 5-htp with EGCG (green tea) as egcg inhibits the enzyme responsible in the convertion of 5-htp to serotonin in the gut.
so more 5-htp get in to the brain and THEN coverted to serotonin. this is what we want


NOTE:
do not take 5-htp daily for a long time. as this causes depleted dopamine.
also
if you take 5-htp at night, take tyrosine in the morning aswell, i think this is a good idea

I take 200mg of 5-HTP two days a week and 2000mg of L-Tryptophan the other 3 days of week on a empty stomach. I take Saturdays and Sundays off. I'm wondering if I would be better off taking the supplements for a period of several weeks straight and then a few weeks off. I wonder which would be more effective? I am taking the supps for depression and anxiety.

Obviously SSRIs would not work with a 5 day on two day off schedule or 4 weeks on 1 week off so I am a little confused as to the best way to supplement 5-HTP/Trypto. I can definately say that for me SSRIs were more effective and I am on a fairly intensive anti-depressant supplement cocktail right now.

I've never heard of Green Tea being taken with 5-HTP for the reasons you mentioned. I don't see how it could possibly help stop absorption by the gut and increase BBB crossing at the same time. Can you provide a reference or source because I am worried about the B6 and 5-HTP conversion. Ironically B6 is required for serotonin production.

-Brian

OK, I see that Green Tea is a mild decarboxylase inhibitor which would in theory increase the plasma levels of 5-HTP. While there is the possibility it increases 5-HTP levels I could not find any studies or evidence that taking Green Tea inhibits absorption in the gut.

Is it true the L-DOPA is usually taken with 5-HTP in Europe and many clinical trials? I'm REALLY starting to question the long-term safety of 5-HTP given the dearth of safety studies.

I like your green tea theory. What do other's think? It is a worthy combo and would it enchance absorption and/or safety of 5-HTP?

-Brian

P.S. Why the heck can I not edit any of my posts? The Edit button is gone.

taking
l-dopa with 5-htp together is retarded, they will inhibit each others absorption, they are competative,
they both use DDC as an enzyme to be converted.
DDC is a rate limiting enzyme too (wikipedia as a referance)

this is why they say,
serotonin precursors at night
dopamine precursors in the morning.

always live by that rule or you end up with unbalanced levels and depression!
5-htp might sound like a anti depressants but its not in long term, serious depletion of dopamine will happen if daily use of 5-htp is continued with no dopamine precursors taken.

Would it then be wise to take l-dopa during the day? L-Tyrosine empties my bowels...

sure.
tyrosine to me isn't effective after 2 days of use.

i mix up 1000mg tyrosine + 1000mg phenylalanine + 1000mg vitamin c and 20mg B6 with good results on an empty stomach.
but after my stach of tyrosine and phenylalanine is finished, ill start taking l-dopa instead as i experience better results.

i wouldnt think your suppose to increase dopamine levels if your prone to have schizophrenia, since schizophrenia is a illness caused by Increased dopaminergic activity.
hence dopamine antagonists are prescribed to people with schizophrenia

[daetake]

I don't know much of anything about ET. I don't know if phenylalanine will make it worse.

If you decide to just take 5-htp or tryptophan without a dopamine source, I would make sure to cycle it regularly. Which still might not be enough to develop tolerance after a couple months. But then again, some people claim they've been taking 5-htp for years while maintaining its effectiveness...

[OneScrewLoose]

how are you going to add 5-htp to a SSRI.
isnt that combination a suicide mix?

I certainly hope not. But my dose of Celexa is only at 20, and it's effectiveness has been lowering. On the plus side, my hands have been shaking less. Instead of upping the dose and having them shake again, I wanna give this a shot first.

[Advanc3d]

how are you going to add 5-htp to a SSRI.
isnt that combination a suicide mix?

I certainly hope not. But my dose of Celexa is only at 20, and it's effectiveness has been lowering. On the plus side, my hands have been shaking less. Instead of upping the dose and having them shake again, I wanna give this a shot first.

lol careful;
although i have taken 50mg - of 5-htp on SSRI's before and noticed no real signficant rise in BP.

[OneScrewLoose]

how are you going to add 5-htp to a SSRI.
isnt that combination a suicide mix?

I certainly hope not. But my dose of Celexa is only at 20, and it's effectiveness has been lowering. On the plus side, my hands have been shaking less. Instead of upping the dose and having them shake again, I wanna give this a shot first.

lol careful;
although i have taken 50mg - of 5-htp on SSRI's before and noticed no real signficant rise in BP.

I took it for my first night last night and saw no real difference in my mood. I am very curious about the dopamine levels in my body and want to take something for it in the day, as recommended in the thread. I want to take the direct approach and see what happens with selegeline. Where would be the best place to buy this?

[daetake]

how are you going to add 5-htp to a SSRI.
isnt that combination a suicide mix?

I certainly hope not. But my dose of Celexa is only at 20, and it's effectiveness has been lowering. On the plus side, my hands have been shaking less. Instead of upping the dose and having them shake again, I wanna give this a shot first.

lol careful;
although i have taken 50mg - of 5-htp on SSRI's before and noticed no real signficant rise in BP.

I took it for my first night last night and saw no real difference in my mood. I am very curious about the dopamine levels in my body and want to take something for it in the day, as recommended in the thread. I want to take the direct approach and see what happens with selegeline. Where would be the best place to buy this?

How much did you take? Some people won't notice a real difference until after a few days to a week of taking it daily. I myself was highly dose dependent with 5-htp, lower doses didn't do much at all for me. I would take anywhere from 200-400mg/day, which may seem like a lot, but I've read that people have used doses up to 900mg/day for weight loss without adverse reactions (I believe this was prescribed treatment in Germany). Obviously you'd need to gradually increase the dosage to minimize the nausea that some people get with dosage increases.

I'd be careful with taking higher doses with an SSRI though. I highly doubt you'll get any major serotonin syndrome blowouts 'n whatnot, but a not-so-fun headache would probably be in order.

I'm not sure about the selegiline.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also took my 5-htp in the morning and afternoon. You could try that and see if you notice the effects.

Edited by daetake, 04 October 2008 - 05:48 AM.

[ThreeKings12341]

Im really low on seretonin and have ibs sNdrom and leaky gut syndrom

So is this a good 5htp plan:?

Starting tyrosine or penylalanjn or both in the morning .. And in the evening 100 mg of 5htp and around 300. mg of green tea extract?


Why would i actually
Need tyrosine and phenylalanin for dopamine production,
If the green tea extract helps with dopamine production??

And why is it bad if b6 combined with 5htp leads to seretonin remainjng in the peripherals..
Isnt it good because the gut is good for controling
Emotions?? (I have depression thats why i want 2 take 5htp)

Really hoping for answers

Edited by ThreeKings12341, 16 April 2016 - 08:48 PM.

[Revera]

Careful! Everyone offers 100mg of 5HTP, usually, but more than 50 per dose can cause peripheral damage inside of your body. Double check this and you'll find it a proven fact. I don't know why all these different brands sell it in 100 mg capsules. I would definitely take 50 at a time. Then the other 50 later that day, or how ever many 50's total spread out throughout the day so that no more than 50 was taken at once!

[Kinesis]

Im really low on seretonin and have ibs sNdrom and leaky gut syndrom

So is this a good 5htp plan:?

Starting tyrosine or penylalanjn or both in the morning .. And in the evening 100 mg of 5htp and around 300. mg of green tea extract?


Why would i actually
Need tyrosine and phenylalanin for dopamine production,
If the green tea extract helps with dopamine production??

And why is it bad if b6 combined with 5htp leads to seretonin remainjng in the peripherals..
Isnt it good because the gut is good for controling
Emotions?? (I have depression thats why i want 2 take 5htp)

Really hoping for answers

 

If you have gut issues you may want to consider probiotics, as well as making sure your diet is healthy including adequate fiber.  Given what is now known about the gut-brain axis, it is possible that resolving the gut issue may take care of the depression as well.  Try googling gut-brain axis and you'll find a plethora of research on that.  Here's a good resource to get you started:  http://mentalhealthd...s-modification/

 

Tyrosine is the raw material from which dopamine is made, just like tryptophan is the raw material from which serotonin is made.  In each case there is an intermediate:

 

tyrosine->levodopa->dopamine

 

tryptophan->hydroxytryptophan->serotonin

 

(Biochemistry, Lehninger, 1975, p 717)

 

So by taking hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) you're skipping a metabolic step in making serotonin.  You can do the same thing by taking levodopa to make dopamine.  Hydroxtryptophan is available as a herbal extract of griffonia simplicifolia, and levodopa is available as a herbal extract of mucuna pruriens.

 

But as Revera suggested, these step-skipping intermediates are potent and should be used with care.  Tyrosine and tryptophan are normal dietary components and have many more metabolic options open to them (such as serving to make proteins), so are a less aggressive intervention, which may nevertheless be effective.

 

Phenylalanine enters into the picture because it can be used to make tyrosine. 

 

So in answer to your question, you might think of the relationship between green tea and tyrosine as a little like that between a spark and fuel.  You can have all the sparks of the Fourth of July and still not make a fire if there's no fuel.  Green tea however may also help boost dopamine as it is a mild MAO-B inhibitor, and MAO-B breaks down dopamine.  Green tea offers a number of other benefits as well.

 

You really don't want loads of serotonin in general circulation.  Taking a high dosage of hydroxytryptophan and having it all prematurely convert to systemic serotonin will not only increase serotonin in your gut but also in other places, including your heart, where it could cause all kinds of things to happen you didn't count on (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1702484).  Systemic dopamine can get messy too (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12095139).  So again, when it comes to taking the immediate serotonin and dopamine precursors, moderation is your friend.  One option would be to try tryptophan and tyrosine first, then add a little hydroxytryptophan and levodopa if a stronger effect is needed.  But even before that see if you can do any better with the gut.
 

[ThreeKings12341]

Thanks a lot people )


Ive heard of the braingutaxis thing .. And i will start probiotics soon as as possible my last blood results
Will arrive

1)
But would 5htp still help with a leaky gut syndrom
, ibs and so on?? Would it have an positve effect with 50mg while having ibs and not taking
Probiotics
And so on??

2) would it make sense to take tyrosin and penylalanin at the same time? And if not which one is better to increase dopamin ??

3.)

In the morning:
tyrosin 500mg
Plus 2 capsules green tea extract
(1capsule: 250 mg; 137,5 mg EGCG; 249 mg polyphenols; 200 mg Catechins, and less then 4 mg koffeine


In the evening
50 mg 5htp
And also 2 capsules green tea extract


Is this any good ? Or too much green tea ior 2 less??(2 less egcg because they wrote in the internet 10 times higher of 5htp??))


Appreciate answers thank you mates!!! <3


PS: can emotional dullness come from a mixed up gut??

Edited by ThreeKings12341, 21 April 2016 - 07:56 AM.