139 replies to this topic

[aLurker]

Unfortunately it only says it contains 100mg of Bacomind per pill, which given the recommended two pills per day comes to 200mg per day.
Though some further research on my part suggests that if there are any fatigue inducing properties that the Canadian ginseng and ginkgo extracts (5% ginsenosides 100mg a pill, and 24% flavoglycosides/ 6% terpene lactones respectively) may help mask them. If I recall correctly ginkgo had some sort of antagonistic effect on GABA receptors, and ginseng has some sort of vague fatigue reducing properties. It doesn't make me tired per say, but I find that it when I relax I feel much more tired than I would otherwise until I get back to work.

I'm more wondering about the potentiation of stimulants it provides, it makes me a little uneasy about possible drug interactions. Though with my previous experiences with ginkgo and ginseng (at similar dosages and extract strengths), there is definitely something that Bacomind either does independently or through some sort of synergy.

A, perhaps unfounded, concern is that mixing a vasodilator like ginkgo with vasoconstricting stims might yield unpredictable results. I think it's been discussed before but I haven't payed much attention. I'd actually prefer a BacoMind product without any vasodilator but that seems hard to find.

And although I guess you already know from the thread I linked to; most studies seem to use higher doses than 200 mg of BacoMind or bacopa extract.

What stims have you tried it with? I think most people here would say that potentation of stims is a good thing unless you're mostly referring to some side effects.

While the study on adults used 450mg a day, which is over twice my daily dose, there is also a study on the Bacomind website showing that children in special ed. classes benefited significantly from 225mg a day. This is very close to the dose I've been taking daily, with the exception of the fact I take mine with breakfast and after lunch as opposed to 1 dose a day.

The stimulants in question are: nicotine, caffeine, Dexedrine 5mg, and Concerta 18mg. The latter two were scripted to me when I was younger by some doctor who couldn't tell ADHD from hypoglycemia and now are only used to help me study for midterms. I wouldn't say the potentiation is a negative, but it makes me wonder what is causing it as they seem to have rather diverse metabolic pathways. One possibility that jumps to my mind is that the vasodilative effects of ginkgo may lead to higher concentrations in the brain, though somewhat consistent with my experience with ginkgo and caffeine it doesn't explain the extra "oomph" that this combo gives.

So as for your experience with Bacopa was your fatigue more of a general lack of motivation or a feeling of actual fatigue?
Also, out of curiosity what's your master's in? I've been a lurker here for some time now haha.

As a side note, I've only been able to find pure Bacomind extracts in kg bulk quantities, but I'll post the link anyways:
http://www.alibaba.c..._MONNIERI_.html

Okay, I'm guessing American ginseng is the same as Canadian. I think this is the ingredient responsible for your response.

A bit of info about American ginseng from the university of Maryland:

Stimulants -- Ginseng may increase the stimulant effect and side effects of some medications take for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, including amphetamine and dextroamphetamine (Adderall) and methylphenidate (Concerta, Ritalin).

Since you mention hypoglycemia you should also be aware that American ginseng can lower blood glucose levels.

Increasing the effect of stims is a very interesting aspect here, I wonder how it would affect any development of tolerance.

Since you asked I'm working on my master's thesis now, let's just say it's computer science related and you can PM me if you for some unfathomable reason would like to know more.

I took a look at my old thyroid tests and free T4 didn't correlate to the symptoms I had which makes me think that any fatigue inducing properties might have been through other mechanisms or because of other factors. I've taken another thyroid blood sample to establish a baseline and I'm going to give standardized bacopa another shot now. Probably 3x225 mg at night for a total of 135 mg bacosides (20% extract), if I can tolerate it. I hope it goes well.

[Delta Gamma]

Well that would seem to explain most of the stimulant effects I was experiencing, though I do still have to vouch for some sort of synergy with this product based on my previous experiences with both ginseng and ginkgo separately.
Also, as a side note I haven't noticed any sort of increase in tolerance to any of the stimulants mentioned. Caffeine actually seemed to develop a tolerance noticeably slower than usual.

[calengineering]

I tried Bacopa Monnieri for about 4 weeks at 2x225Mg per day at night, Planetary Herbals.

I stopped because I didn't notice any significant improvements in any way shape or form. All I remember is that the first 1-2 days after starting it, I made a lot of careless mistakes that got me worried.

Bacopa Monieri also did not help N-Back scores on brainworkshop.sourceforge.net, which I was playing consistently everyday.

[aLurker]

I tried Bacopa Monnieri for about 4 weeks at 2x225Mg per day at night, Planetary Herbals.

I stopped because I didn't notice any significant improvements in any way shape or form. All I remember is that the first 1-2 days after starting it, I made a lot of careless mistakes that got me worried.

Bacopa Monieri also did not help N-Back scores on brainworkshop.sourceforge.net, which I was playing consistently everyday.

The positive effects of bacopa become evident after about 12 weeks or so. Four weeks wouldn't tell you anything about how effective it is. Furthermore, your dose measured by the amount of bacosides was lower than those used in the studies.

Edited by aLurker, 21 November 2010 - 12:55 AM.

[Georgina]

I just started taking Bacopa Monnieri. Although it is early to start analyzing it I do find the this nootropic to be very helpful. My thoughts are clearer, I am more relaxed, and I feel less stressed. The latter two were nice surprises as my original intent in taking Bocopa Monnieri was for its cognitive benefits. As someone pointed out earlier I think it may be best to take in the evening because it makes one feel very relaxed. I don't know how the med will work longterm, if the effects will wear off as can happen. For now though I like it and will continue to take.

Just by the way I also take adderall and have been experiencing with other nootropics mentioned on this forum. My goal is to find the right combination of nootropics that can improve brain functioning and concentration. This Bocopa Monnieri is a nice addition. I am hoping it can also counter the over stimulating effects of the adderall.

Edited by Georgina, 21 November 2010 - 06:09 PM.

[calengineering]

The positive effects of bacopa become evident after about 12 weeks or so. Four weeks wouldn't tell you anything about how effective it is. Furthermore, your dose measured by the amount of bacosides was lower than those used in the studies.

Most of the benefits seen here in this thread seem to have come either within a few days or a couple weeks. I'm pretty skeptical about 3 months being the charm...

[aLurker]

The positive effects of bacopa become evident after about 12 weeks or so. Four weeks wouldn't tell you anything about how effective it is. Furthermore, your dose measured by the amount of bacosides was lower than those used in the studies.

Most of the benefits seen here in this thread seem to have come either within a few days or a couple weeks. I'm pretty skeptical about 3 months being the charm...

If you trust a few anecdotal accounts over peer reviewed scientific studies perhaps a homeopathy forum would suit you better.

[Delta Gamma]

She has a point, my case might be more due to the other herbs in the supplement.I did a little further reading on Bacopa m. and it seems to me that for some people its (allegedly) sedative/anxiolytic effects might be responsible for its initial nootropic effects. A reduction in anxiety could easily cause the clearer thoughts and greater flow that many people on this board rave about, especially given the fact that every third or fourth poster here seems to have AD(H)D or some sort of stimulant intolerance.

Also, there could be some sort of thyroid activity or perhaps some sort of anti-epilepsy effects going on as well which could also explain the sudden effects that these individuals report (that or a good ol' placebo effect :P).

http://www.bacopa-mo...opa-and-anxiety

[aLurker]

To clarify;

I'm certainly not denying that the sedative properties of bacopa become evident for some quite early, I'm one of those myself. I wouldn't call these effects "nootropic" by any means nor would I refer to the sedative qualities as "most of the benefits" although I can certainly see that they are very desirable for some such as Georgina who wants something to calm her down. For me though it's merely an annoying side effect.

If you want to reap the full memory benefits of bacopa however one would probably have to be patient enough to take it chronically for about 12 weeks or so according to the studies even if there might be some outliers who respond early. Quitting after only a couple of weeks because one can't notice anything is obviously a premature decision. Furthermore there is more evidence that it improves long-term memory than short-term which might make it harder to gauge the effects, especially over a short time period. I plan on taking this for a long time unless the sedating side effects become unbearable as they did the last time.

Edited by aLurker, 22 November 2010 - 07:58 AM.

[mentatpsi]

What has been stated is supported by empirical evidence, the anti anxiety effects are mostly rapid, caused possibly by the modulation of serotonin and dopamine, The long term benefit to memory seems more to deal with the increase of protein related to neural growth and repair and the possible anti-oxidant activities in several brain regions. Anti-anxiety effects increasing cognitive performance is extremely logical, if an individual is constantly stressed his performance will take a hit. I wouldn't say there are no cognitive increases related to other mechanisms, only that they rise in magnitude over time.

Additionally, the studies point to increased memory retention after chronic administration rather than increased memory recall of events prior to administration, this points to the effects dealing more with proteins related to neurogenesis. What aLurker is stating is backed by most of the research concerning the herb.

However, if it works for you it works for you. I do think this plant is a bit of a risk with the hyperaccumulation of toxic minerals.

Edited by mentatpsi, 23 November 2010 - 12:46 AM.

[calengineering]

http://www.nature.co...l/1395862a.html

Research in above link shows no effect on short term memory. =(

I quote below...

Results:
The results show no significant effect of chronic administration of brahmi on measures of short-term memory, working memory, attention, or the retrieval of information from long-term memory acquired pre-experimentally. Further, there were no significant effects on subjective measures of psychological state (depression, anxiety and stress) or everyday memory function.

There was a significant effect on a task requiring the retention of new information: the recall of unrelated word pairs after a short delay. There were no significant differences associated with the rate of acquisition of the information, as evidenced by the lack of a significant difference between groups in the learning trials. Rather the effect appears to be a reduction in the amount of information lost from memory. The story recall task also required participants to learn some new material and recall it a short time later; however, it did not show the same significant effect. This may be because there was very little forgetting of the material during the delay, or because story recall is a more reconstructive process than the recall of unrelated word pairs (Baddeley 1990).

Edited by calengineering, 30 November 2010 - 05:52 AM.

[calengineering]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18611150




Research in above link also shows no impact on short term memory =(.


I quote....


RESULTS: Controlling for baseline cognitive deficit using the Blessed Orientation-Memory-Concentration test, Bacopa participants had enhanced AVLT delayed word recall memory scores relative to placebo. Stroop results were similarly significant, with the Bacopa group improving and the placebo group unchanged. CESD-10 depression scores, combined state plus trait anxiety scores, and heart rate decreased over time for the Bacopa group but increased for the placebo group. No effects were found on the DAT, WAIS digit task, mood, or blood pressure. The dose was well tolerated with few adverse events (Bacopa n = 9, placebo n = 10), primarily stomach upset.




DAT = divided attention task (for add-ers)

WAIS digit task = Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) letter-digit test of immediate working memory

[born-again-Christian]

I am pretty impressed by this nootropic. It has been far more effective than any previous nootropic I have tried (piracetam, aniracetam, dmae-the epileptic hypomania trigger, ALCAR).
Not like it is turning me into a real (or imagined...) genius but rather it´s giving me a stable good mood, more goal oriented thoughts, a relaxed way of reasoning, more friendly, social and positive in general.
With piracetam it was often this kind of weird feelings like:"uh oh thoughts are getting distorted, time for a refill!"
Bacopa feels more even and reliable in terms of effect.

Suddenly you just see those small things that tie together everything into a meaningful whole
Think of a pleasurable smell or taste (or even better... taste something you desire). It may set of a little burst of happiness or positive emotions or memories, who knows?
"oh this is the kind of chocolate my dear old grand parents used to give me on those weekends in my childhood".
That kind of things are returning. Not only increased ability to recall learned information, but also some sort of emotional memory retrieval.
Same thing happened when I went crazy crazy manic on zoloft, but this is much milder and it stays in the non paranoid / non agitated zone.

Will definitely be bacopa for more.

Anyone else with similar results?

Bacopa is my favorite adaptogenic herb. It improves my cognitive processing abilities, promotes a "healthy" sense of well-being and relieves anxiety.

WIN WIN WIN


My second favorite is Rhodiola. It also helps a lot with my exercise regimen

[Rational Madman]

Does anyone have a reliable description of its mechanism? From what I've been able to gather, it's a rather weak agent, and with a short half-life.

[aLurker]

Does anyone have a reliable description of its mechanism? From what I've been able to gather, it's a rather weak agent, and with a short half-life.

Well, increasing SOD is basically the only scientific explanation I've heard of. Here is a study about that:

Antioxidant activity of Bacopa monniera in rat frontal cortex, striatum and hippocampus

The effect of a standardized extract of Bacopa monniera Linn. was assessed on rat brain frontal cortical, striatal and hippocampal superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (CAT) and glutathione peroxidase (GPX) activities, following administration for 7, 14 or 21 days. The effects induced by this extract (bacoside A content 82% ± 0.5%), administered in doses of 5 and 10 mg/kg, orally, were compared with the effects induced by (−) deprenyl (2 mg/kg, p. o.) administered for the same time periods. Bacopa monniera (BM) induced a dose-related increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activities, in all the brain regions investigated, after 14 and 21 days of drug administration. On the contrary, deprenyl induced an increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activities in the frontal cortex and striatum, but not in the hippocampus, after treatment for 14 or 21 days. The results suggest that BM, like deprenyl, exhibits a significant antioxidant effect after subchronic administration which, unlike the latter, extends to the hippocampus as well. The results suggest that the increase in oxidative free radical scavenging activity by BM may explain, at least in part, the cognition- facilitating action of BM, recorded in Ayurvedic texts, and demonstrated experimentally and clinically.

To enter more speculative territory I think sleep might be somehow implicated too. Mostly because of the connection between sleep and long-term memory consolidation and retention. My subjective experience with bacopa is that it makes me sleepy and gives me beautiful dreams. I'd be very interested to see a study on if/how bacopa affects sleep patterns and quality over time. Might not be the primary mechanism but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a factor. Reducing stress might also explain some of the effects.

I've heard you say that the half-life is pretty short before. Could you please provide me with a source for that statement?

You've also said that a higher dose than those used in the studies might be a good idea and I'd very much like to hear your reasoning behind that.

Edited by aLurker, 04 January 2011 - 02:08 PM.

[Rational Madman]

From what I was able to gather, it alleviates stress primarily through its putative anticonvulsant and antihypertensive mechanisms, and seems to have some effect on CREB phosphorylation. But in general, its pharmacology is pretty murky, and given its relative weakness, I think most would be better off with prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants.

Edited by Rol82, 04 January 2011 - 02:28 PM.

[aLurker]

From what I was able to gather, it alleviates stress primarily through its putative anticonvulsant and antihypertensive mechanisms, and seems to have some effect on CREB phosphorylation. But in general, its pharmacology is pretty murky, and given its relative weakness, I think most would be better off with prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants.

I respectfully beg to differ unless you feel like posting some studies showing that prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants improve memory retention in healthy humans.

As I said earlier I really want to know about the half-life since I'm somewhat reluctant to dose this more than once at night because of the fatigue it induces so I'd really appreciate if you got back to me on that when you have the time. Thank you.

[mentatpsi]

I am going to strongly agree with aLurker on this one, aside from the neuroprotective mechanism method regarding antioxidant protection similar to that of deprenyl, the following is of strong interest: Singh HK, Dhawan BN. Neuropsychopharmacological effects of the Ayurvedic nootropic Bacopa monniera Linn. (Brahmi). Indian J Pharmacol 1997;29:S359-S365

Edited by mentatpsi, 04 January 2011 - 03:32 PM.

[Rational Madman]

From what I was able to gather, it alleviates stress primarily through its putative anticonvulsant and antihypertensive mechanisms, and seems to have some effect on CREB phosphorylation. But in general, its pharmacology is pretty murky, and given its relative weakness, I think most would be better off with prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants.

I respectfully beg to differ unless you feel like posting some studies showing that prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants improve memory retention in healthy humans.

As I said earlier I really want to know about the half-life since I'm somewhat reluctant to dose this more than once at night because of the fatigue it induces so I'd really appreciate if you got back to me on that when you have the time. Thank you.

As I remember, the half life is about three hours, and the cognitive benefits of the aforementioned drug classes depend on the pathology and the dosage, which varies according to need. Most of the positive findings are in Alzheimer's Disease models, but these findings have been replicated in several other affected subjects, so do you have any disorders in mind? I think what terrifies many is the effects that these agents might have at acute, or usually the inappropriately high therapeutic doses.

Edited by Rol82, 04 January 2011 - 07:47 PM.

[aLurker]

From what I was able to gather, it alleviates stress primarily through its putative anticonvulsant and antihypertensive mechanisms, and seems to have some effect on CREB phosphorylation. But in general, its pharmacology is pretty murky, and given its relative weakness, I think most would be better off with prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants.

I respectfully beg to differ unless you feel like posting some studies showing that prescription ACE inhibitors and anticonvulsants improve memory retention in healthy humans.

As I said earlier I really want to know about the half-life since I'm somewhat reluctant to dose this more than once at night because of the fatigue it induces so I'd really appreciate if you got back to me on that when you have the time. Thank you.

As I remember, the half life is about three hours, and the cognitive benefits of the aforementioned drug classes depend on the pathology and the dosage, which varies according to need. Most of the positive findings are in Alzheimer's Disease models, but these findings have been replicated in several other affected subjects, so do you have any disorders in mind? I think what terrifies many is the effects that these agents might have at acute, or usually the inappropriately high therapeutic doses.

I don't have any disorders in mind and frankly; that's kind of the point. Most of us don't have Alzheimer's. The evidence so far points to that most would be better of with bacopa since there are several studies showing how it improves memory retention in healthy subjects. We both seem to agree that the mechanisms of bacopa are still largely unknown, thus it seems kind of pointless to compare it to other substances.

In regards to the half-life of bacopa I'd still very much appreciate if you or anyone else could help me find some specific studies as I'd like to read them in detail.

[Ichoose2live]

I've been using Bacopa Whole plant extract (20% Bacosides A+B), for 8 weeks with negative results.

Negatives effects:
- Decreased Dopamine. Which results in decreased libido, lack of motivation, lack of energy, sleepiness, poor abstract thinking. Actually Bacopa decrease significantly dopamine. ...while dopamine (DA) decreased significantly.. That could explain why most people are getting sleepy while on this herb.

- Excessive sleep. Sleeping 10 - 12 hours per nights. This is caused by the up-regulation 5-HTP. See study above.

- Long-term memory issues when combined with Piracetam. Possibility that it's interacting negatively with the Cholinergic mechanism of Piracetam also, most people are misunderstanding the effects of Bacopa on memory. It DOES NOT improves memory, I found NONE study that show if Bacopa is improving memory, it does only ''significantly'' improve the retention and acquisition of memory. Do your research.

Other effects:
- Mental clarity with dosage up to 900mg/day. 900mg/day gives me diarrhea and diarrhea is bad sign of Heavy metals toxicity and we all know that Bacopa has hyper-accumulation of heavy metals, e.g. Mercury, Cadmium, Lead, etc...

FINAL SCORE OF THE ''NOOTROPIC'': 0/10.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 29 January 2011 - 01:27 PM.

[aLurker]

I've written several posts showing disdain for bacopa in the past and I agree with some of your points. Bacopa monotherapy seemed to make me sluggish, tired and certainly didn't improve my motivational issues.

I've been using Bacopa Whole plant extract (20% Bacosides A+B), for 8 weeks with negative results.

Might still not be enough, IIRC the improvements in studies were measured at 12 weeks.

Negatives effects:
- Decreased Dopamine. Which results in decreased libido, lack of motivation, lack of energy, sleepiness, poor abstract thinking. Actually Bacopa decrease significantly dopamine. ...while dopamine (DA) decreased significantly.. That could explain why most people are getting sleepy while on this herb.

- Excessive sleep. Sleeping 10 - 12 hours per nights. This is caused by the up-regulation 5-HTP. See study above.

You and me both. Damn I sleep a lot on bacopa, and the dreams are very vivid. In fact I've previously speculated that increased sleep quality could partially account for the increased memory retention.

I also wonder if the decreases in DA are acute and fleeting or if they last well into the next day if I dose it only in the evening. I might have to read this study in detail later.

- Long-term memory issues when combined with Piracetam. Possibility that it's interacting negatively with the Cholinergic mechanism of Piracetam also, most people are misunderstanding the effects of Bacopa on memory. It DOES NOT improves memory, I found NONE study that show if Bacopa is improving memory, it does only ''significantly'' improve the retention and acquisition of memory. Do your research.

This part confuses me. Significant improvements in memory retention doesn't qualify as improving memory somehow? I'd say that memory retention is an important aspect of memory and learning in general. Your comment about "long-term memory issues" with piracetam also seem quite unfounded since you don't mention what leads you to believe this. This is the first I've heard of this. Is it based on your own experience?

Other effects:
- Mental clarity with dosage up to 900mg/day. 900mg/day gives me diarrhea and diarrhea is bad sign of Heavy metals toxicity and we all know that Bacopa has hyper-accumulation of heavy metals, e.g. Mercury, Cadmium, Lead, etc...

The concerns about heavy metals are valid. Nevertheless even perfectly clean bacopa can give you diarrhea, in fact this is one of the few side effects that have been explicitly expressed about bacopa. Just because you get some loose bowels because of the bacopa (especially common initially) I certainly wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it contains large amounts of heavy metal. Seems like a non sequitur in this case since it is such a common side effect from the bacopa itself.

I do agree that manufacturers of bacopa supplements should be more open about their COA and how they can guarantee clean supplements since this is probably the biggest hazard with bacopa at the moment.

FINAL SCORE OF THE ''NOOTROPIC'': 0/10.

As I said, my previous trials of bacopa have been largely unsuccessful since it made me so tired. I've recently begun using it again though, mostly as a sleep aid in the evening. I find the studies conducted compelling enough to give this another shot. Although I have learned some from my mistakes and I'm currently combining it with several other herbs to combat the fatigue that comes with it. Right now I'm cautiously optimistic although I'll probably try skipping the bacapa for a few days later on to gauge how much it affects me.

Too bad bacopa didn't agree with you and I hope you'll find something else or a combination that works better for you.

[Ben]

Bacopa makes me quite sleepy and then a bit agitated when it, what I'm assuming to be some GABA affect, wears off.

[Ichoose2live]

This part confuses me. Significant improvements in memory retention doesn't qualify as improving memory somehow? I'd say that memory retention is an important aspect of memory and learning in general. Your comment about "long-term memory issues" with piracetam also seem quite unfounded since you don't mention what leads you to believe this. This is the first I've heard of this. Is it based on your own experience?

No, I consider this learning capacity. Better long-term memory would be the ability to recall memory at long-term.
There were three testing sessions: one prior to the
trial, one after three months on the trial, and one six weeks
after the completion of the trial. Follow-up tests showed that the rate of
learning was unaffected, suggesting that Brahmi decreases
the rate of forgetting of newly acquired information.

Considering the risk of heavy metal toxicity and after reading this study, I find Bacopa useless and not worth taking the risks.

For the long-term memory issues, I've just dropped Bacopa and I can recall my college lessons even better than when I used to take Bacopa and Piracetam. I also don't know how, but I forgot almost all my last year's lessons. Maybe caused by over-stimulation... I've lost all confidence for Bacopa.

The concerns about heavy metals are valid. Nevertheless even perfectly clean bacopa can give you diarrhea, in fact this is one of the few side effects that have been explicitly expressed about bacopa. Just because you get some loose bowels because of the bacopa (especially common initially) I certainly wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it contains large amounts of heavy metal. Seems like a non sequitur in this case since it is such a common side effect from the bacopa itself.

Correct, but the memory issues have pissed me off and I have scored a low mark in my last test. I assign all this to Bacopa.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 29 January 2011 - 03:28 PM.

[gamesguru]

Bacopa makes me tired. My friends, peers, and family all notice. I notice it too when I try to read a physics article.

These claims that it enhances 'delayed' recall of memory (or equivocally slows decay of memory http://upload.wikime...ettingCurve.svg)...memory of some kind, they are standing on weak ground. All based off of one study too (http://www.wellcorps...opaMonnieri.pdf). I do not think there is any noticeable increase in recall ability. I am a physicist, I have to recall equations, laws, relationships, situations, diagrams, explanations, and such all day. An increase in 'delayed' recall would surely NOT slip me by.

[Ichoose2live]

Bacopa makes me tired. My friends, peers, and family all notice. I notice it too when I try to read a physics article.

These claims that it enhances 'delayed' recall of memory (or equivocally slows decay of memory http://upload.wikime...ettingCurve.svg)...memory of some kind, they are standing on weak ground. All based off of one study too (http://www.wellcorps...opaMonnieri.pdf). I do not think there is any noticeable increase in recall ability. I am a physicist, I have to recall equations, laws, relationships, situations, diagrams, explanations, and such all day. An increase in 'delayed' recall would surely NOT slip me by.

Entirely agree.

[Heinstein]

I've tried Blackmores GinkoBrahmi(Ginko + Bacopa) for 2 nights and I also I tried Swisse EXECUTIVE FOCUS(Ginko + Bacopa + B vits) for 1 night.

Blackmores gave me a strong anxiolytic effect, made me careless and gave me lucid dreams.

Swisse's side effect(anxiolytic and careless effect) was more subtle but was still there.

I took both at night and they made me disorganised, changed my perception of time and made me thoughtful after I took it. I can't take them after 6pm or the Gingko biloba will cause insomia.
This is just the short term effect, I don't know if these short term side effect is worth the longerm positive effect though, they just make me too unproductive. But I don't know what's causing this, Bacopa or Gingko biloba.

[Notsosmart]

I've tried Blackmores GinkoBrahmi(Ginko + Bacopa) for 2 nights and I also I tried Swisse EXECUTIVE FOCUS(Ginko + Bacopa + B vits) for 1 night.

Blackmores gave me a strong anxiolytic effect, made me careless and gave me lucid dreams.

Swisse's side effect(anxiolytic and careless effect) was more subtle but was still there.

I took both at night and they made me disorganised, changed my perception of time and made me thoughtful after I took it. I can't take them after 6pm or the Gingko biloba will cause insomia.
This is just the short term effect, I don't know if these short term side effect is worth the longerm positive effect though, they just make me too unproductive. But I don't know what's causing this, Bacopa or Gingko biloba.

I think Bacopa initially causes drowsiness. But later on it keeps one awake. I've really felt good changes from this. Unlike Piractem, its effects doesnt wear off after a few hours. Also, I was hyper active, emotional and would get anxiety attacks in a crowded place. All gone away, thanks to this little med.

[machete234]

Im digging this thread up since it seems to be the most general one about bacopa.

I just ingested some brahmi from himalaya (1 capsule) about an hour ago and I fully expected to become tired from it but that wasnt the case its hard to pinpoint it at all because Im not stimulated either just mentally present physically Im tired because today I had definately a lack of sleep and I have been tired all day.

Im beginning to question if this should be taken in the evening if it doesnt make me tired at all

Edited by machete234, 14 January 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[renfr]

Bacopa lowers dopamine excitability too much and this always give me violent twitches for days (when I mean violent I mean like my whole leg jumps out uncontrollably), really annoying! Choline seems to rapidly change this.