2208 replies to this topic

[matter_of_time]

I did not find any negative reports and what would be the risk?

I am using it now for almost two weeks, I feel really good on it.

[brotherx]

There is always the risk of transmitting diseases, especially with brain extracts.
I haven't found any negative reports yet - but you want to keep in mind that this extract is not used too long.

Where in the world are you located? Do you use Cerebrolysin for study purposes?
Do you know from people who have used it for a couple of weeks what happens if you stop using it? Are there any negative effects?

Thanks for your posting

Cheers

Alex

I did not find any negative reports and what would be the risk?

I am using it now for almost two weeks, I feel really good on it.

[trevyn]

Re the antidepressant effect, there's some evidence that traditional antidepressants may function through increased neurogenesis, and it seems likely that Cerebrolysin contains neurotrophins, or at least has some effect on endogenous neurotrophic growth factors. (eg: http://dx.doi.org/10...alz.2009.04.900) Also, some types of depression are triggered by stress, so it makes sense that there would be a link there.

I ordered some, and look forward to trying it. Will report back.

Perhaps the most important evidence for the network hypothesis is the recent observation that antidepressants increase the production of new neurons in the rodent hippocampus42. Importantly, the increased neurogenesis that is brought about by chronic antidepressant treatment correlates with the behavioural effects produced by antidepressants43. Newly generated neurons differentiate over time, and are only mature enough to participate in information processing several weeks after their birth44. The fact that this time course correlates with the delayed onset of the clinical effects of antidepressants has created a lot of excitement among neuropharmacologists. In the hippocampi of rodents that have received antidepressant treatment, the elimination of neurons through apoptotic cell death increases simultaneously with increased neurogenesis, which indicates that antidepressants might increase neuronal turnover rather than neurogenesis per se45. This effect might be functionally analogous to the overproduction of neurons that occurs during the development of the peripheral nervous system (Box 1), and indicates that antidepressants might facilitate optimization of neuronal connectivity by increasing the choice of neurons available for selection through activity-dependent mechanisms. At a more subtle level, antidepressant drugs can enhance the sprouting of axons46 and dendrites47, and support the morphological maturation of the newborn neurons47. These data indicate that, in addition to their established function in elevating neuronal turnover in the dentate gyrus, antidepressants might also stimulate the turnover of axonal branches and synaptic contacts, thereby providing more material for activity-dependent selection. It should be noted that increased synaptic turnover might lead to significant reorganization of neuronal connectivity without any net change in synaptic number20. Unfortunately, it is difficult to quantify synaptic turnover in vivo.

Castrén E. Is mood chemistry?...[PMID: 15738959]

Edited by trevyn, 23 October 2009 - 05:29 AM.

[matter_of_time]

This is my second week on it, I don't know what will happen when I stop with it.

It feels like the most natural approach for my ADD. I feel just normal but with a great focus.

In sport I don't feel a difference, but a fast car their is a very big difference. Your totally in control of the car.
I think it will be it defintely is somekind of doping for racing or playing golf.

I am located in the Netherlands.
I don't know people who have used it beside the some people of the Imminst forum.

I suspose/hope this stuff has been tested on BSE like prions.

There is always the risk of transmitting diseases, especially with brain extracts.
I haven't found any negative reports yet - but you want to keep in mind that this extract is not used too long.

Where in the world are you located? Do you use Cerebrolysin for study purposes?
Do you know from people who have used it for a couple of weeks what happens if you stop using it? Are there any negative effects?

Thanks for your posting

Cheers

Alex

I did not find any negative reports and what would be the risk?

I am using it now for almost two weeks, I feel really good on it.

[chilp]

I don't know what will happen when I stop with it.

Keep us posted.

[brotherx]

Interesting and promising experiences! Definitely.

Hopefully it is tested for prions.
I have two serious points to consider:
1. You need to know what you are looking for - otherwise you can't find it
2. Long term effects on healthy people can only be measured after long-term by healthy people.

Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Alex

This is my second week on it, I don't know what will happen when I stop with it.

It feels like the most natural approach for my ADD. I feel just normal but with a great focus.

In sport I don't feel a difference, but a fast car their is a very big difference. Your totally in control of the car.
I think it will be it defintely is somekind of doping for racing or playing golf.

I am located in the Netherlands.
I don't know people who have used it beside the some people of the Imminst forum.

I suspose/hope this stuff has been tested on BSE like prions.

There is always the risk of transmitting diseases, especially with brain extracts.
I haven't found any negative reports yet - but you want to keep in mind that this extract is not used too long.

Where in the world are you located? Do you use Cerebrolysin for study purposes?
Do you know from people who have used it for a couple of weeks what happens if you stop using it? Are there any negative effects?

Thanks for your posting

Cheers

Alex

I did not find any negative reports and what would be the risk?

I am using it now for almost two weeks, I feel really good on it.

[trevyn]

Considering that Cerebrolysin has been around for over 35 years, is an approved drug in 44 countries, has no significant adverse event profile, has a clear published effect on neurogenesis, and has been referred to as a nootropic in the literature since at least 1987, it's weird to me that people are just now playing around with it. Maybe it's the whole injection-of-pig-brain-soup thing.

Edited by trevyn, 23 October 2009 - 12:41 PM.

[matter_of_time]

I see some reports that Cerebrolysin is tested on children, so I assume it would be safe enough to use for younger people.

I found somewhere Cerebrolysin has been generated somewhere in the eighties, so it isn't that new.

According your points:
1. Which "other" substance could be inside the abstract?
2. I am not aware of any long term research.

Maybe their are some risk involved with Cerebrolysin but I think a lot of other substances (par example: ritalin, deprenyl, SSRiS's, modafinil) are much more toxic in the long term.

I hope that their are people who can tell us more about the long term effects of cerebrolysin??

Interesting and promising experiences! Definitely.

Hopefully it is tested for prions.
I have two serious points to consider:
1. You need to know what you are looking for - otherwise you can't find it
2. Long term effects on healthy people can only be measured after long-term by healthy people.

Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Alex

[trevyn]

The weird thing about Cerebrolysin is that it's not really for continuous use, as the effects last well after the 4-week treatment period: "...evaluated 24 weeks after end of active drug treatment...In the CGI, the CERE group improved significantly at follow-up (p < 0.05). 93.9% of the patients, who had improved in the CGI in the original trial, maintained their improvement at follow-up. In contrast, only 17.3% in the placebo group had shown an improvement at the end of the trial and only 15.4% at the end of the follow-up period...These results indicate that relatively short treatment courses with CERE in patients suffering from AD can lead to a positive long-term influence on disease progression. This is in accordance with the drug’s proposed neurotrophic - nerve growth factor like - mode of action." http://linkinghub.el...924977X00804691 Similar results in rat models.

[brotherx]

Yes, you are right - it is not new in terms of development.
But maybe it is relatively new for the usage in healthy people.
If this drug is applied by people with Alzheimer disease or serious neurological dysfunctions it is another risk/benefit matrix. And if you look for long term after effects it will be much harder to tell if it is from the drug or from the disease itself.

I would like to state that I take the 'contrary position' to play devils advocate and to get additional controversial discussions. My goal is not to win an argument.

"Which other substances could be inside the extract?" You mentioned prions - so if you wouldn't look for them - than you wouldn't find them. If there viruses (or chemicals, or prion like stuff) which hide in the brain of pigs and the company does not know they exist - they would not look for them.

Cheers

Alex

I see some reports that Cerebrolysin is tested on children, so I assume it would be safe enough to use for younger people.

I found somewhere Cerebrolysin has been generated somewhere in the eighties, so it isn't that new.

According your points:
1. Which "other" substance could be inside the abstract?
2. I am not aware of any long term research.

Maybe their are some risk involved with Cerebrolysin but I think a lot of other substances (par example: ritalin, deprenyl, SSRiS's, modafinil) are much more toxic in the long term.

I hope that their are people who can tell us more about the long term effects of cerebrolysin??

Interesting and promising experiences! Definitely.

Hopefully it is tested for prions.
I have two serious points to consider:
1. You need to know what you are looking for - otherwise you can't find it
2. Long term effects on healthy people can only be measured after long-term by healthy people.

Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Alex

[matter_of_time]

You have made a damn good point.
I think it is really hard to say if it is safe for usage.

I hope some people can comment also.

Yes, you are right - it is not new in terms of development.
But maybe it is relatively new for the usage in healthy people.
If this drug is applied by people with Alzheimer disease or serious neurological dysfunctions it is another risk/benefit matrix. And if you look for long term after effects it will be much harder to tell if it is from the drug or from the disease itself.

I would like to state that I take the 'contrary position' to play devils advocate and to get additional controversial discussions. My goal is not to win an argument.

"Which other substances could be inside the extract?" You mentioned prions - so if you wouldn't look for them - than you wouldn't find them. If there viruses (or chemicals, or prion like stuff) which hide in the brain of pigs and the company does not know they exist - they would not look for them.

Cheers

Alex

I see some reports that Cerebrolysin is tested on children, so I assume it would be safe enough to use for younger people.

I found somewhere Cerebrolysin has been generated somewhere in the eighties, so it isn't that new.

According your points:
1. Which "other" substance could be inside the abstract?
2. I am not aware of any long term research.

Maybe their are some risk involved with Cerebrolysin but I think a lot of other substances (par example: ritalin, deprenyl, SSRiS's, modafinil) are much more toxic in the long term.

I hope that their are people who can tell us more about the long term effects of cerebrolysin??

Interesting and promising experiences! Definitely.

Hopefully it is tested for prions.
I have two serious points to consider:
1. You need to know what you are looking for - otherwise you can't find it
2. Long term effects on healthy people can only be measured after long-term by healthy people.

Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Alex

[brotherx]

One other important question is - How do you know that you get what you are paying for?
Cerebrolysin is also available as counterfeit drug - see the following link:
http://www.google.de...qji_ufnWUFTgKbA

Cheers

Alex

I see some reports that Cerebrolysin is tested on children, so I assume it would be safe enough to use for younger people.

I found somewhere Cerebrolysin has been generated somewhere in the eighties, so it isn't that new.

According your points:
1. Which "other" substance could be inside the abstract?
2. I am not aware of any long term research.

Maybe their are some risk involved with Cerebrolysin but I think a lot of other substances (par example: ritalin, deprenyl, SSRiS's, modafinil) are much more toxic in the long term.

I hope that their are people who can tell us more about the long term effects of cerebrolysin??

Interesting and promising experiences! Definitely.

Hopefully it is tested for prions.
I have two serious points to consider:
1. You need to know what you are looking for - otherwise you can't find it
2. Long term effects on healthy people can only be measured after long-term by healthy people.

Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Alex

[brotherx]

A good find! Thanks!

Alex

The weird thing about Cerebrolysin is that it's not really for continuous use, as the effects last well after the 4-week treatment period: "...evaluated 24 weeks after end of active drug treatment...In the CGI, the CERE group improved significantly at follow-up (p < 0.05). 93.9% of the patients, who had improved in the CGI in the original trial, maintained their improvement at follow-up. In contrast, only 17.3% in the placebo group had shown an improvement at the end of the trial and only 15.4% at the end of the follow-up period...These results indicate that relatively short treatment courses with CERE in patients suffering from AD can lead to a positive long-term influence on disease progression. This is in accordance with the drug’s proposed neurotrophic - nerve growth factor like - mode of action." http://linkinghub.el...924977X00804691 Similar results in rat models.

[brotherx]

Good point. On the other hand I am always interested in longitudinal studies, especially with 'healthy' people.
Have you tried the substance yourself?

Cheers

Alex

Considering that Cerebrolysin has been around for over 35 years, is an approved drug in 44 countries, has no significant adverse event profile, has a clear published effect on neurogenesis, and has been referred to as a nootropic in the literature since at least 1987, it's weird to me that people are just now playing around with it. Maybe it's the whole injection-of-pig-brain-soup thing.

[trevyn]

Ok, re prions:

1) "No reports exist of naturally occurring [transmissible spongiform encephalopathies] in pigs. However, the experimental inoculation of pigs and transgenic mice overexpressing porcine PrP has indicated that swine are susceptible to BSE infection by the parenteral route, although with a considerable transmission barrier (8,9). The oral transmission of BSE in pigs has not been demonstrated to date." http://www.cdc.gov/e...dfs/08-1218.pdf

2) The smallest known infective prion is ~20 kDa, most are roughly 22-35 kDa. http://www.pnas.org/.../15457.full.pdf

3) Cerebrolysin is enzymatically digested to fragments of 10 kDa or less. (But how complete is this digestion?) http://www.freepaten.../EP0452299.html

4) Prion diseases have a species barrier, that while not absolute, makes inter-species transmission rare: "Prion diseases are both naturally and experimentally transmissible between different mammalian species but such transmission, as judged by appearance of clinical signs, is limited by a so-called 'species barrier' (3). This barrier may be of sufficient magnitude that transmissions, even when attempted by the most efficient, intracerebral, route of inoculation with high titer tissues, are extremely infrequent or absent. In contrast, same-species transmission of prions is typically highly efficient." http://www.pnas.org/.../10248.abstract

5) There's plenty of commercially available ways to detect abnormal prions, and this is an active research area due to public concern. Given the context, I can't imagine that Ebewe doesn't test for abnormal prions. Those Chinese manufacturers above, who knows -- and for that matter, how do they produce an even remotely comparable product? This isn't one specific molecule that needs to be synthesized, it's an obscure isolate, and even the patent doesn't show a specific production method. http://www.umm.edu/n...on_diseases.htm

Edited by trevyn, 23 October 2009 - 02:25 PM.

[brotherx]

Hi Trevyn,

good composition of arguments against prions! Absolutely agreed and I can imagine that Ebewe is trying to and is able to detect prions.
I have used prions only as an example - 20 years ago - they wouldn't find prions because they do not know that they need to look for them.

For an example just have a look at the following links below:

"Pig-brain mist suspected in workers' disease"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22150940

"Medical mystery solved in slaughterhouse"
http://www.cnn.com/2...tery/index.html


Cheers Alex

Ok, re prions:

1) "No reports exist of naturally occurring [transmissible spongiform encephalopathies] in pigs. However, the experimental inoculation of pigs and transgenic mice overexpressing porcine PrP has indicated that swine are susceptible to BSE infection by the parenteral route, although with a considerable transmission barrier (8,9). The oral transmission of BSE in pigs has not been demonstrated to date." http://www.cdc.gov/e...dfs/08-1218.pdf

2) The smallest known infective prion is ~20 kDa, most are roughly 22-35 kDa. http://www.pnas.org/.../15457.full.pdf

3) Cerebrolysin is enzymatically digested to fragments of 10 kDa or less. (But how complete is this digestion?) http://www.freepaten.../EP0452299.html

4) Prion diseases have a species barrier, that while not absolute, makes inter-species transmission rare: "Prion diseases are both naturally and experimentally transmissible between different mammalian species but such transmission, as judged by appearance of clinical signs, is limited by a so-called 'species barrier' (3). This barrier may be of sufficient magnitude that transmissions, even when attempted by the most efficient, intracerebral, route of inoculation with high titer tissues, are extremely infrequent or absent. In contrast, same-species transmission of prions is typically highly efficient." http://www.pnas.org/.../10248.abstract

5) There's plenty of commercially available ways to detect abnormal prions, and this is an active research area due to public concern. Given the context, I can't imagine that Ebewe doesn't test for abnormal prions. Those Chinese manufacturers above, who knows -- and for that matter, how do they produce an even remotely comparable product? This isn't one specific molecule that needs to be synthesized, it's an obscure isolate, and even the patent doesn't show a specific production method. http://www.umm.edu/n...on_diseases.htm

[trevyn]

Wow, those are quite creepy, and you're absolutely right that there is a big unknown here. Plus, I've come across nothing even remotely close to a longitudinal study of Cerebrolysin, nor a short-term study including "normal" humans. There was one rat study that had a non-lesioned Cerebrolysin group, but it wasn't particularly conclusive.

Also was surprised to see that it was actually found as a counterfeit in Russia.

I have not yet tried it myself, but I have some on order. Hopefully it's not fake! :D

"Pig-brain mist suspected in workers' disease"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22150940

"Medical mystery solved in slaughterhouse"
http://www.cnn.com/2...tery/index.html

Edited by trevyn, 23 October 2009 - 03:08 PM.

[brotherx]

Trevyn,

Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, what indeed could be worrying are the counterfeit products.
Please keep us posted with your experiences!

What is your primary goal with Cerebrolysin? Would you like to use it for study purposes ?

Cheers

Alex

Wow, those are quite creepy, and you're absolutely right. Plus, I've come across nothing even remotely close to a longitudinal study of Cerebrolysin, on humans or other animals.

Also was surprised to see that it was actually found as a counterfeit in Russia.

I have not yet tried it myself, but I have some on order. Hopefully it's not fake! :D

"Pig-brain mist suspected in workers' disease"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22150940

"Medical mystery solved in slaughterhouse"
http://www.cnn.com/2...tery/index.html

[trevyn]

Not a very good source, but: "The product contains amino acids and peptides obtained through enzymic digestion from pig brains. The risk of prion protein contaminsation (sic) is ruled out by the production process itself and by several purification stages, said the same [unnamed] source." http://www.apmhealth...hp?numero=L1162

[trevyn]

I'm interested in the potential antidepressive/anxiolytic and general nootropic effects. Phenylpiracetam is the only nootropic I've tried which which I get a clear effect, and I develop significant tolerance in only a few days. I'm also interested in stims, but not particularly interested in their well-documented adverse effects.

Trevyn,

Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, what indeed could be worrying are the counterfeit products.
Please keep us posted with your experiences!

What is your primary goal with Cerebrolysin? Would you like to use it for study purposes ?

Cheers

Alex

[brotherx]

Although the source is debatable - have a look at the end of the same article.

Cheers

Alex

"EBEWE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR NEW MARKETS

Cere is marketed through local subsidiaries in about 40 countries, including Austria, Poland, Portugal, the Czech Republic, Romania and Slovakia in Europe, the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), Pacific Asia and Latin America.

Sales represent "about half" of Ebewe's total activity, which was 106 million euros in 2004.

The objective is to launch Cere on new markets, particularly in Western Europe, and also to diversify the range of treatments by iv infusion in neurology through acquiring licences.

Cere was marketed in Germany up to mid-2005 as a "pharmaceutical compound without a conventional marketing authorisation".

About 5,000 compounds in Germany which did not have an MA according to the procedure introduced in 1978 were withdrawn from the market in summer 2005 through expiry of the deadline which enabled the manufacturers to update the clinical files for the products concerned.

Faced with the stack of "bureaucratic documents" required by the authorities in Germany, Ebewe has chosen to suspend commercialisation of Cere."

Not a very good source, but: "The product contains amino acids and peptides obtained through enzymic digestion from pig brains. The risk of prion protein contaminsation (sic) is ruled out by the production process itself and by several purification stages, said the same [unnamed] source." http://www.apmhealth...hp?numero=L1162

[matter_of_time]

Does anyone know what the difference is between a counterfeit and the real thing??

[trevyn]

Does anyone know what the difference is between a counterfeit and the real thing??

It may be worth contacting Ebewe to see if they have any tips for detecting counterfeits based on the packaging; counterfeit drugs are a real problem even when purchased from a legitimate supplier.

And again, note that due to the nature of Cerebrolysin, there's probably no useful way to compare efficacy of Ebewe-produced Cerebrolysin and "Cerebrolysin" from a Chinese supplier; it's not like you can just run a mass spec for a specific molecule; Cerebrolysin is a complex mixture of compounds, and Ebewe and the various national drug approval agencies are probably the only people who know how it's truly standardized -- unless someone can get their hands on the actual clinical trial paperwork.

And of course, Ebewe-supplied Cerebrolysin is the only product actually used in any of the published studies or trials.

So even if you got a counterfeit that tried to be legit and wasn't just saline, it may not do you much good.

Edited by trevyn, 24 October 2009 - 11:52 AM.

[trevyn]

So there's a series of articles that deals with postnatal treatment of healthy rats with Cerebrolysin, seemingly in an attempt to identify methods of action and potential active peptide fractions. Not super-interesting, since I presume the rat brain is still in development at that point, and our adult human brains are considerably less in development.

But, they throw in older rats and some behavioral studies every now and then for fun.

Gschanes A, Boado R, Sametz W, Windisch M. "The drug cerebrolysin and its peptide fraction E021 increase the abundance of the blood-brain barrier GLUT1 glucose transporter in brains of young and old rats." (PMID: 10816070):

"As shown in Table 2 for the young rats, all drug-treated groups had significantly lower escape latencies in the Morris water maze on all training days (p < 0.01). The significant differences on the first day indicate an improved acquisition of information; results on the other days can be explained by an additional improvement of memory. Similar results were reported for the 24-month-old rats (Gschanes et al. 1998a)." (emphasis added)



Again, these are healthy, normal rats. And look at the data. It's not a subtle effect.

There is no data in that article for the older rats, but Gschanes et al. 1998a is: Gschanes A, Windisch M. "The influence of Cerebrolysin and E021 on spatial navigation of 24-month-old rats." (PMID: 9700667)

I'm having trouble finding this article's fulltext online, but my library has it; I'll pull it on Monday and report back.

Edited by trevyn, 24 October 2009 - 02:12 PM.

[brotherx]

It can be everything but Cerebrolysin in the counterfeit products - that's the major difference.

How are your effects today?

Cheers

Alex

Does anyone know what the difference is between a counterfeit and the real thing??

[NootropicEU]

Does anyone know what the difference is between a counterfeit and the real thing??

It is a very common practice to fake expensive pharmaceuticals like Cerebrolysin in Russia. Their rules and regulations are not so strict, some people are corrupt. You have probably noticed that Cerebrolysin you have has those shiny stickers on the pack. I have never seen a fake Cerebrolysin pack, but I guess they would not be able to make identical packaging. I can only suggest not to buy it from Russia.

[togameru]

-If you thought weed gets you the munchies, wait till you try this stuff. When you first start on this cycle, you get hungry as a SAVAGE. I usually eat just enough to be full, not overly gorged, but this stuff had me tearing up huge meals and not even feeling incapacitated by everything I just ate. I'd attribute this to the fact that with all the additional peptides and stuff, your body needs more nutrition. Sort of like adding B-vitamins to stuff like Pyritinol or even good old 5-HTP.

Sounds to me like Cerebrolysin might just contain ghrelin, a potent endogenous peptide nootropic and stimulator of appetite.

[trevyn]

-If you thought weed gets you the munchies, wait till you try this stuff. When you first start on this cycle, you get hungry as a SAVAGE. I usually eat just enough to be full, not overly gorged, but this stuff had me tearing up huge meals and not even feeling incapacitated by everything I just ate. I'd attribute this to the fact that with all the additional peptides and stuff, your body needs more nutrition. Sort of like adding B-vitamins to stuff like Pyritinol or even good old 5-HTP.

Sounds to me like Cerebrolysin might just contain ghrelin, a potent endogenous peptide nootropic and stimulator of appetite.

It may very well; Ghrelin is a 3kDa peptide. I don't know if the peptide fraction includes all naturally occurring <10kDa peptides in their natural ratios in pig brain, or if there is some other form of selection.

Also interesting is that appetite is regulated by a leptin/ghrelin feedback loop (PMID: 15867335), and Cerebrolysin likely does not contain leptin, as it is a 16kDa peptide. Ghrelin itself does not seem to stimulate endogenous leptin production.

Edited by trevyn, 24 October 2009 - 11:43 PM.

[matter_of_time]

Cerebrolysin does not stimulate appetite in my case, it might even suspress my appetite.
I quit smoking two days before I took the first shot of Cerebrolysin, it made it really easy. I never had the urged to smoke a cigarette.

-If you thought weed gets you the munchies, wait till you try this stuff. When you first start on this cycle, you get hungry as a SAVAGE. I usually eat just enough to be full, not overly gorged, but this stuff had me tearing up huge meals and not even feeling incapacitated by everything I just ate. I'd attribute this to the fact that with all the additional peptides and stuff, your body needs more nutrition. Sort of like adding B-vitamins to stuff like Pyritinol or even good old 5-HTP.

Sounds to me like Cerebrolysin might just contain ghrelin, a potent endogenous peptide nootropic and stimulator of appetite.

It may very well; Ghrelin is a 3kDa peptide. I don't know if the peptide fraction includes all naturally occurring <10kDa peptides in their natural ratios in pig brain, or if there is some other form of selection.

Also interesting is that appetite is regulated by a leptin/ghrelin feedback loop (PMID: 15867335), and Cerebrolysin likely does not contain leptin, as it is a 16kDa peptide. Ghrelin itself does not seem to stimulate endogenous leptin production.

[trevyn]

"Cerebrolysin solution produced under a nonexisting series was confiscated from pharmacies in Kiev. All medications as a whole met the requirements set forth in the specifications, but their markings differed from those of the genuine product. The package of counterfeit drugs did not bear the corresponding trademark. The manufacturer (Ebeve, Austria) said this series was not produced by the company and was not exported to Ukraine. Investigation by the State Department for Quality Control revealed that the certificate accompanying the medication was issued for another medication produced by a pharmaceutical company from India. Counterfeit cerebrolysin was also found in Volhynia wherein the ampoules had labels different from the authentic product." (http://pdf.usaid.gov...cs/PNACW986.pdf) (2003 document)