12 replies to this topic

[doctordog]

after discovering its off-label use as a treatment for OCD, i am considering using it either as a stand-alone treatment or as an augment. either way, i was curious about its effects on cognitive functioning? does anyone have any experience (pro or con) with it?

[bgwithadd]

I took some the other day and had some bad reactions but I believe it's largely due to everything else I take. You might get some mild cognitive confusion taking memantine alone, but it's an uncompetitive antagonist meaning that until you have high levels of activity it should not cause any real interference. It basically puts a cap on glutamate activity.

It also affects dopamine D2 and seemingly nicotinic achetacholine receptors so it might have an overall cognitive boost for some people.

[doctordog]

You might get some mild cognitive confusion taking memantine alone, but it's an uncompetitive antagonist meaning that until you have high levels of activity it should not cause any real interference.

so at lower doses it may be pro/neutral in terms of cognition, while at higher doses it could cause confusion? or does 'high levels of activity' refer to the time spent on the drug rather than the dose?

[bgwithadd]

No, that's the activity of the glutamine system. So basically, it make is so that the glutamate system can't rev up too high. Any impairment it caused would presumably be dose dependent, but it should be minimal, if any.

[doctordog]

thanks for your reply. do you know how strong its effect on D2 and nicotinic acetylcholine is? my memory + cognition is pretty screwed up at the moment (in general, and moreso thanks to Nardil's anticholinergic effects) and i've also been thinking of trying Galantamine after reading about a poster on dr-bob who had tremendous success using it as a Nardil augment. would the Memantine render Galantamine unnecessary or is it possible to stack the two?

[focus83]

I've been taking Memantine for a while now, but I only use it to dampen my sometimes hyperactive mind. It's not really a nootropic for me, but rather something to calm my neurons down since I am also a bit the ADD kind of guy.
When I take huge dose like 20mg I tend to feel detached from the outside world, like seeing things farer away than they really are and stuff like that.

[doctordog]

so far i've been of memantine for 11 days; 4 days @ 10mg.

positives - increase in drive, able to feel pleasure again, more socially outgoing

negatives - constricts short-term memory, i.e. i can often go into a room and forget why i entered, reading is more difficult, etc.; there is also a lot more 'ruminative' chatter going on inside my head; and i am a lot more prone to addictive behaviour (surfing the 'net, checking my phone, etc.)

does this correlate to anyone's initial experience?

on some level, the last two could be taken as positive, since at least they indicate an increase of activity inside my head (it's managed to completely clear up my depersonalization). but i'm wondering if the problem is that i'm using it in isolation, where as i should maybe be combining it with something serotogenic in order to maximize the benefits while cutting down on the more annoying side-effects of dopamine/reward pathway stimulation?

[brotherx]

Hi,


"Changes associated with memantine treatment for entire sample included significant declines in some variables associated with verbal learning and memory that improved upon medication withdrawal."

This is from the following pubmed extract:

"Cognitive effects of memantine in postmenopausal women at risk of dementia: a pilot study.
Wroolie TE, Kenna HA, Williams KE, Powers BN, Holcomb M, Lazzeroni L, Rasgon NL.

Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-5723, USA.

BACKGROUND: To determine the effects of memantine on cognition in a normal population of postmenopausal women with putative risk factors for Alzheimer's disease (AD) using a built-in control for the genetic risk factor for AD (apoE-epsilon4 status). METHODS: A prospective, open-label, 6-month pilot medication trial with memantine and follow-up after discontinuance conducted at the Center for Neuroscience in Women's Health, Stanford University School of Medicine. Neuropsychological data were collected on 22 community-dwelling postmenopausal women (11 apoE-epsilon4 carriers and 11 apoE-epsilon4 non-carriers) with at least one putative risk factor for AD. RESULTS: ApoE-epsilon4 status was not a significant predictor of change in neuropsychological performance. Changes associated with memantine treatment for entire sample included significant declines in some variables associated with verbal learning and memory that improved upon medication withdrawal. A positive medication effect was noted with executive functions and possibly category fluency. Trend-level improvements were seen in motor dexterity of the non-dominant hand and maintained even after drug discontinuance. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with memantine appeared to have differential effects on cognitive performance in a population of women with putative risk factors for AD. ApoE-epsilon4 carrier status did not account for observed changes in cognition.

PMID: 18705678 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"


Cheers

Alex

so far i've been of memantine for 11 days; 4 days @ 10mg.

positives - increase in drive, able to feel pleasure again, more socially outgoing

negatives - constricts short-term memory, i.e. i can often go into a room and forget why i entered, reading is more difficult, etc.; there is also a lot more 'ruminative' chatter going on inside my head; and i am a lot more prone to addictive behaviour (surfing the 'net, checking my phone, etc.)

does this correlate to anyone's initial experience?

on some level, the last two could be taken as positive, since at least they indicate an increase of activity inside my head (it's managed to completely clear up my depersonalization). but i'm wondering if the problem is that i'm using it in isolation, where as i should maybe be combining it with something serotogenic in order to maximize the benefits while cutting down on the more annoying side-effects of dopamine/reward pathway stimulation?

[NG_F]

Here's and Interesting read regarding Memantine's alleged efectiveness based on it's ability to inhibit NMDA as well as increase levels of dopaminergic neurotrophic factor


Memantine shows clinically relevant efficacy in patients with Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease. Most in vivo and in vitro studies attribute the neuroprotective effects of memantine to the blockade of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor on neurons. However, it cannot be excluded that mechanisms other than NMDA receptor blockade may contribute to the neuroprotective effects of this compound. To address this question, primary midbrain neuron–glia cultures and reconstituted cultures were used, and lipopolysaccharide (LPS), an endotoxin from bacteria, was used to produce inflammation-mediated dopaminergic (DA) neuronal death. Here, we show that memantine exerted both potent neurotrophic and neuroprotective effects on DA neurons in rat neuron–glia cultures. The neurotrophic effect of memantine was glia dependent, as memantine failed to show any positive effect on DA neurons in neuron-enriched cultures. More specifically, it seems to be that astroglia, not microglia, are the source of the memantine-elicited neurotrophic effects through the increased production of glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor (GDNF). Mechanistic studies showed that GDNF upregulation was associated with histone hyperacetylation by inhibiting the cellular histone deacetylase activity. In addition, memantine also displays neuroprotective effects against LPS-induced DA neuronal damage through its inhibition of microglia activation showed by both OX-42 immunostaining and reduction of pro-inflammatory factor production, such as extracellular superoxide anion, intracellular reactive oxygen species, nitric oxide, prostaglandin E₂, and tumor necrosis factor-. These results suggest that the neuroprotective effects of memantine shown in our cell culture studies are mediated in part through alternative novel mechanisms by reducing microglia-associated inflammation and by stimulating neurotrophic factor release from astroglia.

[doctordog]

i ended up ditching memantine .. taken on it's own, i couldn't discern any real benefits ..

[Galantamine]

Memantine would be the opposite of a nootropic.

[Guacamolium]

Memantine works best starting with a small dosage (2.5mg) per day or less, and ramping up slowly to 10mg. Once it gets going, it resets tolerances to many stimulants and opiods. The gabaergic system seems unaffected but that's my assessment. It's strong, but takes a while to get to its cognitive enhancing stage. It takes patience with this one.

It also spans so many receptor subtypes that interactions are bound to happen. http://www.drugs.com.../memantine.html That's more the reason to start slow and ramp up slowly. Luckily it's now available in the US and other western countries more than before so people can try it without as much custom issues as before. Although I don't usually take ADD meds (except the occasional Adrafinil if that counts) it allows me to take less to achieve more with adrafinil.

[lourdaud]

I've got a lot of non-generic memantine to sell.. If anyone is interested, feel free to drop me a PM!