16 replies to this topic

[Chaos Theory]

I'm very health conscious. I workout daily and take many supplements. My one problem that I can't seem to solve is acne and dry skin.

The only solution to the acne that I have found is by going tanning regularly and using salicylic acid. I would like to stop tanning but after years of OTC and prescription topicals that have done nothing, it is the most effective treatment I have found.

Tanning isn't exactly something one does when they are interested in preserving long-term health and vitality though.

Are there any effective supplements that actually work? I've tried high dose B5, up to 9 grams a day of NOW super EPA fish oil, zinc and nicotinamide supplementation, topical retinol. All with no discernible difference in my tendency to break out. The fish oil did seem to keep my skin more moisturized though.

I tried resveratrol for a while as well. I can't remember if it was trans-res or not, but at two pills a day for a month with no noticable difference I felt it was cost prohibitive.

You guys seem to be more knowledgeable than anyone when it comes to studies on the benefits of supplements. Any suggestions are appreciated.

My diet is pretty good by the way. Almost no milk or red meat at all. A lot of oatmeal and sprouted grain bread. Additional protein from O.N. 100% whey protein shakes(1.5 scoops/day). Very limited sugar or high GI carbs.

[Imminst = pro murder (omega)]

I did a search on the Health Ranger's site and seems maybe that grain bread might be complicating things for you.

Copied the url for the search results and found it works when opened in a new window so here it is:

http://www.naturalne...s...2&sa=Search

Best of luck!

[Declmem]

I've had acne since I was 13 and I'm now 27. My acne has not decreased in its severity since it started, so I've had some time to experiment.

This is what I recommend:

- Cut caffeine out completely. Including chocolate and other things that contain caffeine. Yeah, it sucks, and you'll be tired for a few days to a week, but caffeine really does aggravate acne problems. It doesn't CAUSE them, but does aggravate them.

- Use Pantothenic Acid (b5). No need to use it in high doses. 500mg in the morning, 250mg in the early afternoon. If I start to break out I'll add another 250mg in the afternoon. This starts showing effects after a few weeks. No oral medication I've ever taken (and I've taken them all) has worked as well. I use Nature's Way brand, and trust it.

- Fish oil didn't do anything for my acne. In fact I have some slight evidence that it made it worse, at least for me.

- Have you tried Benzaclin as a topical prescription? No other topical agent has worked for me either, until Benzaclin. Retin-A, Duac, Peroxide, etc. None of them worked, but Benzaclin does. Freaking smear that stuff all over the areas that normally break out. Even your black heads will go away in a few weeks. Unfortunately, Benzaclin is NOT that great at getting rid of existing zits. Retin-A is much better. But Benzaclin is the best at prevention, which Retin-A sucks at, IME. If you can get both Retin-A and Benzaclin perscribed, that's even better. But I don't bother, since Benzaclin keeps the zits from coming back on its own.

- Wash your face 3-5 times a day. I use Neutrogena Invigorating Face Wash. It's a blue gel, can get it at Target. I've tried a bunch of face washes and this is the one I use now exclusively because it doesn't aggravate my acne and doesn't dry out the face as much.

- Exfoliate once a week, or as dead skin starts to accumulate. I recommend this stuff from Anthony, Logistics for Men.

- If you have moisture problems, try LAB series for men or Clinique. Its expensive, but lasts forever, and all the other crap moisturizers will make you smell like a woman and won't work as well.

- Of course, remember not to touch your face except to wash it. Your fingers are dirty, disgusting little buggers that will leaves a trail of zits wherever they land.

- If you have backne or shoulder acne, DO NOT pick or scratch your back or shoulders. This will pop the zits, releasing bacteria everywhere and making it a whole lot worse.

- If you have to pop a zit, pop it, make it sure it bleeds. Bleeding is a sign that all the crap it out and the healing can begin. While still bloody, smear some peroxide around the area. Wait till it clots and smear some Benzaclin on the area. It'll be gone completely by morning, or even later in the day.

None of these will rid you of acne individually. Only by implementing all of this did I completely rid myself of acne.

As an aside, I also take vitamin D, but have no idea if that impacts anything. I just take it anyway cause I don't get a lot of sun. 4000IU. I don't think it is significant though, because I took it before starting on Pantothenic Acid and broke out like crazy.

Good luck!

Edited by Declmem, 01 April 2009 - 11:41 PM.

[NDM]

Get a medical prescription for oral tetracicline and take it together with EGcG/green tea to amplify its effect. That's the one thing that invariably works. In terms of diet, cut out all saturated fats: coconut, hazelnuts, all nuts, butter, chocolate, etc. If you eat fruits, don't eat too many at once.

Don't do anything with your face - wash it with cold water only.

Until it goes away, get a concealer and hide it.

[VespeneGas]

hmmm, since switching to a diet high in saturated fat, I've noticed a decrease in acne. There are other confounding factors, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem to mess with my face. What's the theory here, that if you eliminate saturated fat, the body won't be able to convert it into cholesterol and subsequently testosterone?

[Chaos Theory]

Get a medical prescription for oral tetracicline and take it together with EGcG/green tea to amplify its effect. That's the one thing that invariably works. In terms of diet, cut out all saturated fats: coconut, hazelnuts, all nuts, butter, chocolate, etc. If you eat fruits, don't eat too many at once.

Don't do anything with your face - wash it with cold water only.

Until it goes away, get a concealer and hide it.

Maybe I should have mentioned I'm a man. I already have a kilo of green tea powder from bulk nutrition though. I should really get off my ass and put some in capsules again so I'll start using it.

I'll maybe try the B5 again. If you super dose one of the B vitamins doesn't it cause the level of the others in the body to drop though?

Declman, I appreciate the advice. I've had acne for the same time span, I'm now 26. Mine isn't so bad anymore, I treat it with salicylic acid and benzoyl peroxide when it needs it. I was hoping to find more nutrition and supplement based treatments here.

I really don't have it in me to adjust my diet over this condition anymore. I've already cut out milk and simple carbs. When you read up on acne and diet these websites suggest a practically vegan diet. I'm sure that would cure my acne, along with causing me to lose at least 15lbs of muscle I don't have to spare, as well as send my testosterone levels into the ground.

Edited by Chaos Theory, 02 April 2009 - 04:38 AM.

[bigsend]

The two best things I have ever done for my skin are
1) Dim (from broccoli)
2) Topical Retin-A, for which you need a prescription

Diindolylmethane activates CYP3A4, which breaks down bad estrogen into good estrogen. It helped my skin so much that when I take dim I do not need to do anything else to maintain clear skin. I don't know if it would help everyone, but it was exactly what my body needed.

[kismet]

Declmem, I think there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and some published case reports about fish oil helping acne. Personally I think it helps my skin, but I don't trust n=1 either way.
Don't you think it's a little unfair to compare a combination of benzoylperoxide and clindamycin to a retinoid alone?
By the way, I've read never to wash one's face more than twice a day and personally I felt like I'm better off if I don't wash or touch my skin at all (less irritation).

Chaos Theory, you have acne but no comprehensive regimen? And you're wondering why you can't get rid of it? Did you try and combine OTC/prescription drugs, topicals, supplements, diet and lifestyle?
Personally I recommend something along the lines (which I'd try if I had acne again): a retinoid in the evening + azelaic acid in the morning (I believe there could be working retinoid + BPO forumulation out there; or combine it with a topical antibiotic), doxycycline (first an antibacterial dose, then maintenance at low doses ~50mg).
The best supplements are probably high dose fish oil and 30-100mg zinc (I stick to 30mg). Neither is necessarily safe in the long term, so I'd taper them off ASAP.
Diet wise a healthy diet would do, I believe CR might be even better. Studies indicate that a low GI/GL diet which is low in dairy (and obviously no processed food) should help.
Lifestyle (should be obvious): work out (if you're fat, lose weight ASAP) and avoid the sun. As much as I'd like to deny it but sleep and stress also play a role.
Tanning (while using some OTC/prescription exfoliants) is the worst thing you can do, stop immediately. Real Phototherapy uses (visible!) blue and red light to treat acne and it's a great therapy, albeit a little expensive.

I'll maybe try the B5 again. If you super dose one of the B vitamins doesn't it cause the level of the others in the body to drop though?

No, but it's still dangerous. I can't remember why, but I dislike b5 therapy. If I remember correctly the side-effects are not worth it and I've never heard that any credible study replicated the findings of the original paper (case reports from internet forums are irrelevant).

Edited by kismet, 02 April 2009 - 10:02 AM.

[Chaos Theory]

Thanks for the supplement suggestions. Anyone have a good source for high quality DIM?

I've been to multiple dermatologists and I've been a member of acne.org since the board was conceived. I don't really need any suggestions on the finer points of face washing or topical medications (I've tried almost all of them). I came here hoping to find supplements and nutrition treatments so I could use fewer topicals because every one of them is in some way harsh on the skin.

[Matt]

I'm finding green smoothies to be great for my skin. I put a lot of kale in them which contains something called DIM. A lot of acne sufferers claim it helps their acne. There is also a green smoothie thread over at acne.org http://www.acne.org/...-G-t108917.html with many reporting the same benefits i've noticed with my own skin. Dark leafy greens like kale and spinach also contains lutein which helps keep the skin hydrated, soft and more elastic.

Years ago when my acne was really bad I used Aloe Vera Gel which seemed quite effective. If you got any sore spots you can get a green tea bag from your drink, and place it against a spot for 5-10 minutes. The swelling and redness should go down within half hour.


DIM is found in broccoli, brussel sprouts, Kale mainly.

Edited by Matt, 02 April 2009 - 05:21 PM.

[bigsend]

DIM is found in broccoli, brussel sprouts, Kale mainly.

I use a product called Dim-Plus, which is cheapest at swanson vitamins

[VampIyer]

I've noticed general improvements in my skin from increased leafy greens, astaxanthin + lutein + tocotrienols + Biosil, and a more controlled diet.

As for acne... I cannot spot a trend. I think I have less without dairy.

Anyone want to discuss DIM vs I3C ? It has been proposed that I3C is the better option, however for the specific purpose of eliminating acne, perhaps DIM works better? I've noticed nothing, but I'll use up my remaining DIM and see if anything changes.

[kismet]

Thanks for the supplement suggestions. Anyone have a good source for high quality DIM?

I've been to multiple dermatologists and I've been a member of acne.org since the board was conceived. I don't really need any suggestions on the finer points of face washing or topical medications (I've tried almost all of them). I came here hoping to find supplements and nutrition treatments so I could use fewer topicals because every one of them is in some way harsh on the skin.

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Topicals generally are superior for mild to moderate acne and even more so for maintenance. Systemic treatments are reserved for severe acne because they're generally toxic or have unkown or unacceptable side-effects. Hey, it's a disease of the skin...
I've been to multiple dermatologists too, most derms I know are idiots unfortunately. Acne.org has become pretty much useless apart from the science section.

Most supplements have not shown any efficacy (or have not been tested) against acne. You won't find the answer you are looking for, because it doesn't exist. We can do some good (or not so good and not so safe, who knows?) guesswork, though.

By the way, sorry that I missed the part were you said that you tried out the basics... still what about real and proven treatements? Tetracyclines, how did they help?

Edited by kismet, 02 April 2009 - 07:39 PM.

[HaloTeK]

The two best things I have ever done for my skin are
1) Dim (from broccoli)
2) Topical Retin-A, for which you need a prescription

Diindolylmethane activates CYP3A4, which breaks down bad estrogen into good estrogen. It helped my skin so much that when I take dim I do not need to do anything else to maintain clear skin. I don't know if it would help everyone, but it was exactly what my body needed.

Interesting, even though my skin isn't really that bad (pimples here and there), Dim was one of the few products i've ever taken that has really cleared my face if problems arise. Carnitine (PLCAR being the best) supplements have also seemed to really help in this regard-- it's almost like the carnitine is shuttling in the fat to my mitochrondria that the bacteria would have normally ate. I tend not to take either because both seem to give me slight dull headaches.

Also, my libido is usually really strong. Within 3 straight days of taking DIM-- I already start noticing a lessening of my libido. I would assume that this is because it can inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT. This may be good for longevity, but my libido keeps me interested in life! Bodybuilding boards always seemed so gung-ho to recomend DIM for its' bad estrogen lowering activity -- however, they seemed to have forgotten about its' DHT lowering ability!

[Chaos Theory]

By the way, sorry that I missed the part were you said that you tried out the basics... still what about real and proven treatements? Tetracyclines, how did they help?

I can maintain clear skin with salicylic acid. Full stop. Getting back to the topic of supplements for anyone who has anything else to add..

[sogazelle]

topical ascorbic acid(great for acne)
liquorice extract(decreases inflammation)
EGCG from green tea(keeps pores open)
topical niacinamidade(controls sebum)
tea tree oil(kills acne bacteria)
Saw palmetto
Use a face wash twice a day with 2% salicilic acid, leave it on for 2 to 5 min. Rinse out then moisturise (yes!) with a lotion free of pore clogging ingredients like mineral oil

[imarobot]

My diet is pretty good by the way. Almost no milk or red meat at all. A lot of oatmeal and sprouted grain bread. Additional protein from O.N. 100% whey protein shakes(1.5 scoops/day). Very limited sugar or high GI carbs.

Supplements are unlikely to help. Diet might.

In many of us, wheat produces inflammation, and inflammation causes problems in many different systems*. This might be your issue. Remove all wheat and see what happens.

* Possibly leading to health problems later on like hypoglycemia and hypothyroidism. The evidence hints but isn't conclusive.

Edited by imarobot, 08 June 2009 - 04:10 PM.