8 replies to this topic

[Tim Jones]

I thought this might be significant information for the community, so I am providing it....

We had someone who was using Resveratrol that had experienced significant joint pain, and I wanted to share what we found with people who might be having the same problem the resolution...

Profile -
Gender: Male 34 yrs old.
Physical: Olympic Trained Athlete
Dosage: 1500mg Resveratrol per day w/ 800mg of Quercetin
(Other Info not significant for this application)

Symptoms:
Started experiencing joint pain within 2 days of taking supplment. Classic "achey" joint type symptoms were reported which were made worse by repeated training. Within 4 days he was unable to maintain typical training regime. Stopping supplement did not alleviate symptoms.

Rational Taken:
Phyical symptoms indicate a reduction in synovial fluid in joints. A simple internet forum search revealed a number of younger individuals experiencing similar symptoms while taking trans-resveratrol with varying degrees of severity, but conflicting information was found on a med search. Trans-Resveratrol would seem to be a quite powerful SERM, and appears to be reducing synovial fluid. Needle test to verify hypothesis was not seen as necessary, and mri analysis was not performed.

Resolution:
Started individual on typical dosage of nandrolone and all no further symptoms were reported by day 4. As a precaution, kept individual on treatment for 4 weeks, but no further symptoms were reported. Glucosamine/Condroitin was recommended as a long term treatment option. Individual started back on week 6 with a 500mg dosage of Resveratrol w/ 300mg of Quercetin. No further symptoms were reported, but individual agreed to be monitored long term.

NOTES:
The use of GCS while taking Resveratrol should be explored further...

[nowayout]

Thank you for the information. May I ask in which context you are posting? (e.g., sports medicine practitioner?)

I suppose the mechanism of action that you were looking for would have been the increase in estrogen, which presumably increases synovial fluid. Is this correct? I though nandrolone was in fact less estrogenic than some other anabolic steroids.

What about the suppressive effects of nandrolone on the HPTA axis?

Also, does use of nandrolone not qualify as doping in the context of professional athletics?

Edited by viveutvivas, 11 June 2009 - 04:01 PM.

[Tim Jones]

Thank you for the information. May I ask in which context you are posting? (e.g., sports medicine practitioner?)

I suppose the mechanism of action that you were looking for would have been the increase in estrogen, which presumably increases synovial fluid. Is this correct? I though nandrolone was in fact less estrogenic than some other anabolic steroids.

What about the suppressive effects of nandrolone on the HPTA axis?

Also, does use of nandrolone not qualify as doping in the context of professional athletics?

Yes, I probably should have removed the nandrolone info, as this would certainly not be an advised treatment route for people experiencing mild issues. Meaning, GCS certainly is the best route for most people.

Also, Nandrolone is very effective at increasing synovial fluid directly (considerably more so than testosterone). Also, it results in very little estrogen typically. Also, Nandrolone does require post cycle therapy so it would strongly not be advised for a standard individual. And yes, nandrolone would not be considered doping, but it is definitely a banned substance for all olympic and professional sports and it is very easy to detect on a blood panel.

[nowayout]

Thank you for the information. May I ask in which context you are posting? (e.g., sports medicine practitioner?)

I suppose the mechanism of action that you were looking for would have been the increase in estrogen, which presumably increases synovial fluid. Is this correct? I though nandrolone was in fact less estrogenic than some other anabolic steroids.

What about the suppressive effects of nandrolone on the HPTA axis?

Also, does use of nandrolone not qualify as doping in the context of professional athletics?

Yes, I probably should have removed the nandrolone info, as this would certainly not be an advised treatment route for people experiencing mild issues.

No, this is good to know, at least as a last ditch option for those of us whose issues are severe and resistant to other treatments. GCS doesn't do shit for me.

Also, Nandrolone is very effective at increasing synovial fluid directly (considerably more so than testosterone).

Good to know.

Edited by viveutvivas, 11 June 2009 - 04:57 PM.

[davidd]

Tim,

Thanks for sharing this. I stopped taking my resveratrol about a month ago due to joint problems in my hands. I'm not exactly sure what caused the problems, but I decided it would be prudent to stop for a while. This was 50% resveratrol without quercetin.

Some coincidental circumstances are:

1) Had reached a low level of vitamin D after a long winter (was down at 28 ng/ml on a reference range of 32 to 100).
2) Had just started being exposed to mid-day sun (and lots of it for a couple days on the weekend, then none during the week days)

Some of my guesses were that my body may have started using more vitamin D than it had been, since it was fully available, and then ran out and ate into my stores, which would have been low/non-existent, and somehow messed with my joints.

Your information about low synovial fluid is interesting. There are links between synovial fluid and vitamin D production too. Can't really say what that means in this context, but I'm just noting the relationship.

I should also mention that at the beginning of last summer (2008), I had some joint problems too. At that point, I thought it was prolonged iron supplementation that was to blame, but I'm now wondering about the vitamin D angle as well. I stopped taking excess iron and started taking resveratrol and quercetin with bromelain and the problem went away. However, my vitamin D production probably also became more regular with more exposure to sun too.

Did the person you posted about continue to take nandrolone and/or glucosamine/condroitin when they started back up with the 1/3rd dose of resveratrol/quercetin?

How much glucosamine/condroitin did they take?

Is the resveratrol 50%, 98% or 99% pure?

Is the quercetin mixed with bromelain?

Thanks for any information you can provide. I am asking, because although my hands are better, they aren't perfect yet. My right hand is stiff feeling with a small amount of pain in the joints. Left hand feels somewhat normal usually.

Going to start taking some glucosamine/condroitin to see what that does for me.

David

Edited by davidd, 07 July 2009 - 03:16 AM.

[elphaba]

I'm 63 and I believe I have experienced joint pain as a result of resveratrol. I have osteoarthritis but joint pain increased significantly after resveratrol I have taken 98% resveratrol (about 1 gram per day, I don't measure powder too rigorously) for about 6 months and prior to that I took 1 gram per day of the 50% resveratrol for about 1 year.

Remembering that I heard about possible synovial fluid deficiency on this web site, (not this thread but somewhere else --I can't remember), I purchased both Iflex and Celadrin from iherb.com. Have experienced significant relief. Don't plan to stop anytime soon. The Iflex is a bit pricey so if I stop, that will be the first to discontinue. The info on the website indicates that Iflex is a patented substance that includes or related to "rosehips".

FYI - I've been taking about 2 grams per day of Glucosamine Sulfate for many years now and do find relief (I know because if I run out, I feel the pain) but it didn't help with these joint pains that started maybe about 6 months ago. I have also started a strict diet at about the same time which complicates the conclusions here, I know but wanted to make the point about glucosamine at least. (note: low fat diets often exacerbate joint pain because joints are not lubricated as much, I've heard, so if you believe that, it indicates these supplements are even better than I'm giving them credit for.)

(I have no business or financial relationship or any other type of relationship other than as a customer with iherb.com)

P.S. I probably should mention this somewhere else but wanted to comment on something I haven't heard much about. For some of us old dinosaurs, I am pretty convinced that Resveratrol is good for low-grade chronic depression, the kind that you may not even realize you have. The cure doesn't happen overnight but I'm convinced that I am no longer depressed thanks to Resveratrol. The lack of depression is one reason I can even contemplate a strict diet -- didn't lose any weight on Resveratrol unless you count my being able to have the right attitude and fortitude to approach a strict weight loss diet - I have much hope for the first time in many years.

[maxwatt]

I'm 63 and I believe I have experienced joint pain as a result of resveratrol. I have osteoarthritis but joint pain increased significantly after resveratrol I have taken 98% resveratrol (about 1 gram per day, I don't measure powder too rigorously) for about 6 months and prior to that I took 1 gram per day of the 50% resveratrol for about 1 year.

Remembering that I heard about possible synovial fluid deficiency on this web site, (not this thread but somewhere else --I can't remember), I purchased both Iflex and Celadrin from iherb.com. Have experienced significant relief. Don't plan to stop anytime soon. The Iflex is a bit pricey so if I stop, that will be the first to discontinue. The info on the website indicates that Iflex is a patented substance that includes or related to "rosehips".

FYI - I've been taking about 2 grams per day of Glucosamine Sulfate for many years now and do find relief (I know because if I run out, I feel the pain) but it didn't help with these joint pains that started maybe about 6 months ago. I have also started a strict diet at about the same time which complicates the conclusions here, I know but wanted to make the point about glucosamine at least. (note: low fat diets often exacerbate joint pain because joints are not lubricated as much, I've heard, so if you believe that, it indicates these supplements are even better than I'm giving them credit for.)

(I have no business or financial relationship or any other type of relationship other than as a customer with iherb.com)

P.S. I probably should mention this somewhere else but wanted to comment on something I haven't heard much about. For some of us old dinosaurs, I am pretty convinced that Resveratrol is good for low-grade chronic depression, the kind that you may not even realize you have. The cure doesn't happen overnight but I'm convinced that I am no longer depressed thanks to Resveratrol. The lack of depression is one reason I can even contemplate a strict diet -- didn't lose any weight on Resveratrol unless you count my being able to have the right attitude and fortitude to approach a strict weight loss diet - I have much hope for the first time in many years.

Did the pain start when you switched to 98% resveratrol? Or did you take it for a period of time before you had pain? Were you taking one gram the whole time, or did you increase your dose?

Have you stopped resveratrol, and if so did the pain stop?

Joint and/or tendon pain does occur in some people taking large doses of resveratrol,and some have reported this eliminates joint pain. Some contributors to this forum speculate that it may be related to a vitamin D deficiency, which is common in your age group, even if you are getting sunlight. Ability to make vitamin D with sun exposure does decline with age.

In your situation, I would stop resveratrol until the pain stops or at least improved significantly. Then if I wanted to continue with resveratrol, resume at half the previous dose. If pain recurred, repeat. Some people have reported they find large doses of resveratrol (over a gram) beneficial; many reduce their dose over time. Others are satisfied with half a gram or less. There is much individual variation in the dose required to attain a given blood serum level; some require much less than others to attain a given blood serum level.

At the same time, I would have my vitamin D levels tested. If they are low or show an insufficiency, I would take sufficient vitamin D3 to raise them. into the middle of the "normal" range the lab report will give. Typically, it is said that 1000 units will raise levels by 10 points. The test is inexpensive, your doctor should be able too order it easily. There are also services that allow you to take a blood sample at home and sent it to a lab for testing.

[davidd]

Remembering that I heard about possible synovial fluid deficiency on this web site, (not this thread but somewhere else --I can't remember), I purchased both Iflex and Celadrin from iherb.com. Have experienced significant relief. Don't plan to stop anytime soon. The Iflex is a bit pricey so if I stop, that will be the first to discontinue. The info on the website indicates that Iflex is a patented substance that includes or related to "rosehips".

Thanks for adding to this mystery. Very much appreciated.

How long did it take after starting the Iflext and Celadrin for you to experience relief? Also, was it a gradual relief or did you reach maximum relief and then either (A) still had pain, but not as bad or (B) had no pain.

Thanks!
David

[elphaba]

Did the pain start when you switched to 98% resveratrol? Or did you take it for a period of time before you had pain? Were you taking one gram the whole time, or did you increase your dose?

Have you stopped resveratrol, and if so did the pain stop?

Joint and/or tendon pain does occur in some people taking large doses of resveratrol,and some have reported this eliminates joint pain. Some contributors to this forum speculate that it may be related to a vitamin D deficiency, which is common in your age group, even if you are getting sunlight. Ability to make vitamin D with sun exposure does decline with age.

In your situation, I would stop resveratrol until the pain stops or at least improved significantly. Then if I wanted to continue with resveratrol, resume at half the previous dose. If pain recurred, repeat. Some people have reported they find large doses of resveratrol (over a gram) beneficial; many reduce their dose over time. Others are satisfied with half a gram or less. There is much individual variation in the dose required to attain a given blood serum level; some require much less than others to attain a given blood serum level.
...
have my vitamin D levels tested. If they are low or show an insufficiency, I would take sufficient vitamin D3 to raise them. into the middle of the "normal" range the lab report will give. Typically, it is said that 1000 units will raise levels by 10 points. The test is inexpensive, your doctor should be able too order it easily. There are also services that allow you to take a blood sample at home and sent it to a lab for testing.

Pain has largely stopped since taking the Celadrin and Iflex from iherb.
Pain started when I was taking the 50%. That is one of the reasons I switched to the 98%. Didn't stop when I switched to 98%,
I have taken Glucosamine during the entire time. Not Chondroiten since I heard several years ago that it was linked to Prostate cancer and even though I'm not male, I decided I didn't want something that was controversial.

I take 400IU of Vitamin D, twice per day (plus a whole lot more vitamins before and during my experience with Resveratrol.)
Don't plan to quit since the energy or bounce in optimism or relief from low grade depression of whatever it is (kind of difficult to explain because it is subtle) is not something I want to eliminate. I have hopes that the Celadrin and Iflex will relieve the remaining joint pains. The worst of them are gone. The only remaining is in my neck and that could be that my cervical spondylosis has gotten worse on its own without help from Resveratrol. I had spondylosis before the Resveratrol but it did get worse.

These kinds of supplements don't work overnight (just like the Resveratrol) at least for me so I'm going to give it a few more months.

Thanks for posting. Apologies that I haven't been such a good guinea pig as to document precisely the changes.