7 replies to this topic

[medievil]

I'm interested in memantine for its amphetamine tolerance reducing effects, but i'm wondering wheter there are any racetams that wont interfere? As i've read reports of piracetam blocking nmda antagonists.

[ultranaut]

I've been wondering about that as well, although more generally. Memantine is a bit too pricey for me so I'm going to spend some time experimenting with other NMDA antagonists first (huperzine and agmatine are first up) before I start making that kind of an investment. I've been taking magnesium but choking down three of those horsepills a day got old fast, and the effect on amphetamines has been minimal. I've also held off on trying out more racetams. I had a definite effect from piracetam, but it was before I started amphetamines and I also read about how it may reduce NMDA antagonists effectiveness.

[medievil]

I've been wondering about that as well, although more generally. Memantine is a bit too pricey for me so I'm going to spend some time experimenting with other NMDA antagonists first (huperzine and agmatine are first up) before I start making that kind of an investment. I've been taking magnesium but choking down three of those horsepills a day got old fast, and the effect on amphetamines has been minimal. I've also held off on trying out more racetams. I had a definite effect from piracetam, but it was before I started amphetamines and I also read about how it may reduce NMDA antagonists effectiveness.

I've read some reports of piracetam en oxiracetam completely blocking the effects of ketamine, i wonder wheter adding in piracetam with an nmda antagonist would destroy the tolerance reducing effect.
DXM is dirt cheap and would do the same job as memantine.

Also phenylpiracetam faces some real tolerance issues, wondering wheter memantine could block the tolerance effect. The nootropics i'm most interested in are pramiracetam and phenylpiracetam and so far i dont know wheter they interact with nmda receptors.

Somebody needs to do some experimenting...

[ultranaut]

DXM is dirt cheap and would do the same job as memantine.

I take 450mg of bupropion daily, it's processed by the same enzyme that would normally process DXM. So my body breaks DXM down a bit differently, the effects of as low as 60mg are very noticeable and somewhat like MDMA. So, it's not really an option for me.

[medievil]

DXM is dirt cheap and would do the same job as memantine.

I take 450mg of bupropion daily, it's processed by the same enzyme that would normally process DXM. So my body breaks DXM down a bit differently, the effects of as low as 60mg are very noticeable and somewhat like MDMA. So, it's not really an option for me.

I'm starting to think i better use something else to inhibit tolerance, nefiracetam has been shown to inhibit morphine tolerance because of inhibiting PDE4 and raising CAMP. Tolerance is a whole cascade of events and imo it would be better to inhibit something differend then NMDA.
Well that is if your interested in getting the max out of your capacities and in my opinion a pramiracetam, nefiracetam, phenylpiracetam, amphetamine combo could give your brain superpowers

Edited by medievil, 06 October 2009 - 11:02 AM.

[ultranaut]

DXM is dirt cheap and would do the same job as memantine.

I take 450mg of bupropion daily, it's processed by the same enzyme that would normally process DXM. So my body breaks DXM down a bit differently, the effects of as low as 60mg are very noticeable and somewhat like MDMA. So, it's not really an option for me.

I'm starting to think i better use something else to inhibit tolerance, nefiracetam has been shown to inhibit morphine tolerance because of inhibiting PDE4 and raising CAMP. Tolerance is a whole cascade of events and imo it would be better to inhibit something differend then NMDA.
Well that is if your interested in getting the max out of your capacities and in my opinion a pramiracetam, nefiracetam, phenylpiracetam, amphetamine combo could give your brain superpowers

I've read that the racetams can accelerate tolerance. The ones you mention are a bit expensive as well. I have a lot of stuff coming in the near future, if none of it helps then I'll probably try out ani and oxi racetam. NMDA seems like the best known route to fighting tolerance though, and a lot of the substances active there seem to have some additional benefits.

[medievil]

DXM is dirt cheap and would do the same job as memantine.

I take 450mg of bupropion daily, it's processed by the same enzyme that would normally process DXM. So my body breaks DXM down a bit differently, the effects of as low as 60mg are very noticeable and somewhat like MDMA. So, it's not really an option for me.

I'm starting to think i better use something else to inhibit tolerance, nefiracetam has been shown to inhibit morphine tolerance because of inhibiting PDE4 and raising CAMP. Tolerance is a whole cascade of events and imo it would be better to inhibit something differend then NMDA.
Well that is if your interested in getting the max out of your capacities and in my opinion a pramiracetam, nefiracetam, phenylpiracetam, amphetamine combo could give your brain superpowers

I've read that the racetams can accelerate tolerance. The ones you mention are a bit expensive as well. I have a lot of stuff coming in the near future, if none of it helps then I'll probably try out ani and oxi racetam. NMDA seems like the best known route to fighting tolerance though, and a lot of the substances active there seem to have some additional benefits.

Where did you read that? Theres one studie showing nefiracetam decreased morphine tolerance (http://cat.inist.fr/...&cpsidt=1498115). At the moment i'm looking into CCK inhibitors (proglumide) and PDE inhibitors and their effect on amphetamines.

I'm not sure, but it seems like all things that decrease opiate tolerance also have the same effect on other type of drugs, proglumide even reverses an opiate tolerance so i'm looking into studies showing the relationship between CCK receptors and amphetamine tolerance.

At the moment NMDA antagonists are the best options tough, so i dont suggest using other compounds at the moment.

Edited by medievil, 06 October 2009 - 06:50 PM.

[medievil]

I'm starting to think CCK antagonists are the clue for drug tolerance...

Abstract  Rationale: The mesolimbic dopamine (DA) system is implicated in psychostimulant drug self-administration. The neuropeptide cholecystokinin (CCK) is co-localised with DA and inhibits nucleus accumbens (NAcc) DAergic neurotransmission via CCKB receptors. Objectives: The present experiment was designed to examine the effects of intra-NAcc CCKB receptor stimulation on fixed-ratio (FR) amphetamine self-administration. Methods: Wistar rats with intravenous catheters and NAcc cannulae were trained to self-administer amphetamine under a FR3 schedule of reinforcement. Animals performing stable self-administration were microinjected with pentagastrin and assessed during 3-h sessions. Results: Intra-NAcc pentagastrin dose dependently increased amphetamine intake. Conclusions: These results are consistent with the notion that NAcc CCKB receptor activation attenuates amphetamine reward.

Those cck receptors inhibit dopamine in the reward center in the brain, and there is science behing proglumide totally reversing tolerance to opiatesn, not just inhibiting it but totally reversing it.

Sounds plausible to me that the tolerance cascade ends with some receptors that inhibit dopamine in the reward center of the brain.