42 replies to this topic

[Solitude]

The vast majority of posts on piracetam here appear to be from relatively new users who come here to share their experiences. Frankly, I find that the most of individuals on these forums who have used piracetam for any substantial amount of time have complained of tolerance to the point of not feeling it at all. To test the hypothesis, a poll! I did a search, and came up with no such poll, so I apologize in advance if this has already been asked.

So, is there anyone here for piracetam continued to work after 3+ months of continued use?

Please do not vote in this poll if you have not used Piracetam for more than 3 months.

Edited by Solitude, 16 November 2009 - 07:29 AM.

[Pike]

the continuous benefits from using piracetam for 3+ months are a bit different than those first 6 weeks or so, IMO and experience. in the beginning, it was a great aid to with memory. the memory boosts, however, died out after 2 months or so. after memory boosting died out, it gave a moderate but appreciable effect in learning rate (as in, how quickly i could learn something). those kinda peaked at 3 months or so. I never got around to using piracetam for longer than 5 months, but i wish i would have to see it's effect at the 6-month mark. overall, it was a very enjoyable experience. aniracetam is like piracetam on crack but didn't offer me anything unique outside of pi- --> better initial memory boost and better learning rate boost afterwards, but nothing outside of that. only made it to 3.5 months with ani.

however, i have ADHD and would naturally have a different neurochemistry than most (i.e. i have a big response rating that most don't). so, keep that in mind if you happen to read any of my anecdotes.

[Dorho]

Pike, did you use the piracetam continuously or did you cycle it?

[Consciousness]

"Frankly, I find that the most of individuals on these forums who have used piracetam for any substantial amount of time have complained of tolerance to the point of not feeling it at all."

Do you believe this to be a mental acclimation of sorts or an actual physical tolerance (ie a higher dosage of piracetam after 3+ months for the same effects)? Or neither, of course.

The boundaries of 'efficacy' must be clearly defined to get the answer you're (we're) looking.

Edited by Consciousness, 16 November 2009 - 11:31 AM.

[Pike]

Pike, did you use the piracetam continuously or did you cycle it?

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam. the literature supporting ADHD was somewhere in the ballpark of like 4800mg, but i thought that was a little too much. I opted for 2400mg a day, split in 3 doses (800mg x3).

currently, i don't use piracetam consistently. i only occasionally use it on the weekends. until i can fully cease from prescription amphetamine use to treat my ADHD without any cognitive loss, piracetam and anything else promoting my NMDA receptor activity will be either put on hold, or in the "occasionally" section of my supplement usage.

[Dorho]

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam.

Yeah, I should have realised that from your first post... I'm going to get some piracetam soon. Do you think I could avoid the tolerance buildup if I cycle it 2 weeks on/1 week off?

[Solitude]

"Frankly, I find that the most of individuals on these forums who have used piracetam for any substantial amount of time have complained of tolerance to the point of not feeling it at all."

Do you believe this to be a mental acclimation of sorts or an actual physical tolerance (ie a higher dosage of piracetam after 3+ months for the same effects)? Or neither, of course.

The boundaries of 'efficacy' must be clearly defined to get the answer you're (we're) looking.

I'm assuming you mean that some people may begin to judge a new state as 'baseline' and fail to notice a difference (ie, mental acclimation). Furthermore, it's difficult to account for the claims that piracetam continues being effective after stopping it once taken for several months.

It is indeed difficult to differentiate between the two in an uncontrolled setting like this forum, so I thought it best to keep it simple. It's not scientific, unfortunately, but it's better than nothing or the very limited research. Thus, the best definition of efficacy I can provide without obfuscating our simple little poll here is "have you noticed any evidence that...?"

I would reckon that significant changes in cognition are still noticeable even after 3 months.

Edited by Solitude, 16 November 2009 - 02:49 PM.

[Pike]

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam.

Yeah, I should have realised that from your first post... I'm going to get some piracetam soon. Do you think I could avoid the tolerance buildup if I cycle it 2 weeks on/1 week off?

couldn't tell you for sure, but i did pretty okay taking it monday-friday with weekend breaks! weekend breaks are my preferred way to space out things just because counting weeks by 5 instead of 7 makes it a hell of a lot easier when planning when to re-buy supplements!

[Dorho]

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam.

Yeah, I should have realised that from your first post... I'm going to get some piracetam soon. Do you think I could avoid the tolerance buildup if I cycle it 2 weeks on/1 week off?

couldn't tell you for sure, but i did pretty okay taking it monday-friday with weekend breaks! weekend breaks are my preferred way to space out things just because counting weeks by 5 instead of 7 makes it a hell of a lot easier when planning when to re-buy supplements!

Ok, thanks for the tip. Hopefully it works.

[acantelopepope]

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam.

Yeah, I should have realised that from your first post... I'm going to get some piracetam soon. Do you think I could avoid the tolerance buildup if I cycle it 2 weeks on/1 week off?

couldn't tell you for sure, but i did pretty okay taking it monday-friday with weekend breaks! weekend breaks are my preferred way to space out things just because counting weeks by 5 instead of 7 makes it a hell of a lot easier when planning when to re-buy supplements!

Ok, thanks for the tip. Hopefully it works.

Anyone interested in this topic should read the thread "Piracetam Non-Responders". And please, if you ARE a "responder" after three months of use then tell us the result of your pupil reflex test.

[Mindweaver]

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam.

Yeah, I should have realised that from your first post... I'm going to get some piracetam soon. Do you think I could avoid the tolerance buildup if I cycle it 2 weeks on/1 week off?

couldn't tell you for sure, but i did pretty okay taking it monday-friday with weekend breaks! weekend breaks are my preferred way to space out things just because counting weeks by 5 instead of 7 makes it a hell of a lot easier when planning when to re-buy supplements!

Ok, thanks for the tip. Hopefully it works.

Anyone interested in this topic should read the thread "Piracetam Non-Responders". And please, if you ARE a "responder" after three months of use then tell us the result of your pupil reflex test.

I AM a responder after 3 months, what is this pupil test/how will it help you?

Edited by Mindweaver, 03 November 2010 - 10:13 PM.

[Germs111]

5 months is my personal record for a continuous use of piracetam.

Yeah, I should have realised that from your first post... I'm going to get some piracetam soon. Do you think I could avoid the tolerance buildup if I cycle it 2 weeks on/1 week off?

couldn't tell you for sure, but i did pretty okay taking it monday-friday with weekend breaks! weekend breaks are my preferred way to space out things just because counting weeks by 5 instead of 7 makes it a hell of a lot easier when planning when to re-buy supplements!

Ok, thanks for the tip. Hopefully it works.

Anyone interested in this topic should read the thread "Piracetam Non-Responders". And please, if you ARE a "responder" after three months of use then tell us the result of your pupil reflex test.

I AM a responder after 3 months, what is this pupil test/how will it help you?

Here's a link to a relevant thread:
http://www.imminst.o...non-responders/

Does anyone think that taking Vitamin C would help make the effects of piracetam or aniracetam endure time? It was suggested in the thread who's link I posted.

[caruga]

I did that eye test thing and my pupil was opening and closing like a blow hole.

[Ichoose2live]

Vitamin C is important and necessary for the synthesis of the neurotransmitters, norepinephrine and serotonin. It catalyzes the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine and the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 03 January 2011 - 03:12 AM.

[Moddy2012]

Piracetam has not done a thing for me. It also tastes horrible. I am currently looking into modafinil if it can help me focus and stay awake during dull tasks such as studying a science subject.

[kikai93]

Piracetam has not done a thing for me. It also tastes horrible. I am currently looking into modafinil if it can help me focus and stay awake during dull tasks such as studying a science subject.

People saying science is boring makes me sad. What could be more exciting than discovering the way the world actually works? Well, other than Call of Duty Black Ops.

[FadingGlow]

Definitely doesn't give the exact same effects as it originally did.

I used to get visual distortions, slight hallucinations at any dose above 800mg. It made me feel slightly manic as well.

Now after, either 3 or 4 months, I feel it does still help my memory. Perhaps not as much as it did before. However, I am now also without the original "high" feeling/visual distortions that made the memory effects not as worthwhile. I am currently thinking of taking a break from it being as I feel I may be getting slightly addicted to it. I have recently started taking 1-2 days off a week as I had not done the first 3 months. I also recently switched to choline citrate instead of the bitartrate I was using before. Don't think that did much of a difference, except that I seem to be sleeping alot more.

Haven't had much luck with aniracetam either. Makes me feel clouded.

[kikai93]

Definitely doesn't give the exact same effects as it originally did.

I used to get visual distortions, slight hallucinations at any dose above 800mg. It made me feel slightly manic as well.

Now after, either 3 or 4 months, I feel it does still help my memory. Perhaps not as much as it did before. However, I am now also without the original "high" feeling/visual distortions that made the memory effects not as worthwhile. I am currently thinking of taking a break from it being as I feel I may be getting slightly addicted to it. I have recently started taking 1-2 days off a week as I had not done the first 3 months. I also recently switched to choline citrate instead of the bitartrate I was using before. Don't think that did much of a difference, except that I seem to be sleeping alot more.

Haven't had much luck with aniracetam either. Makes me feel clouded.

Try CDP choline if you feel you need extra choline. It doesn't seem to cause the lethargy as often, and may increase dopamine receptor density.
Also try the racetams sans choline. Some people who don't respond with choline respond without. Aniracetam will tend to make people feel clouded for a week or two, then the cloud lifts and positive effects begin to show.
It's also entirely possible that these are not the supplements for you.

[jlspartz]

At the 3 month mark, I started to not feel it, but I had also quit taking in any caffeine a year prior. I was really tired one day, and had a soda with caffeine and I felt the piracetam kick in (I know because it's a totally different feeling than caffeine). I made note of that and tested in again and again, and it worked every time, just a tiny bit of caffeine (1/4 of a mountain dew) and I start feeling the racetam. I looked up the connection and found out caffeine to be a potentiator for racetams. I got to 4 months before my supply ran out and about a month later, I felt my brain slow way down to it's original state, so I believe even though it is difficult to notice it's effects in the long run, it is a matter of perception. That's my take on it anyway.

[kikai93]

At the 3 month mark, I started to not feel it, but I had also quit taking in any caffeine a year prior. I was really tired one day, and had a soda with caffeine and I felt the piracetam kick in (I know because it's a totally different feeling than caffeine). I made note of that and tested in again and again, and it worked every time, just a tiny bit of caffeine (1/4 of a mountain dew) and I start feeling the racetam. I looked up the connection and found out caffeine to be a potentiator for racetams. I got to 4 months before my supply ran out and about a month later, I felt my brain slow way down to it's original state, so I believe even though it is difficult to notice it's effects in the long run, it is a matter of perception. That's my take on it anyway.

I concur. Particularly with Aniracetam and Oxiracetam I think the mind simply becomes acclimated to the new state and begins to self-report the new baseline. This is one reason I recommend using written and electronic testing to help gauge the effectiveness of any drug which affects brain function. Subjective perception is just notoriously unreliable.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Just thought I'd add that I came back from seeing a doctor about what i thought was an enlarged spleen. As it turns out it was simply damage to the stomach lining from taking powdered supplements like piracetam and aniracetam. To be safe make sure you don't take a bunch of capsules at once like I used to. Also, be sure to drink lots of water and take aniracetam with food.

[kikai93]

Just thought I'd add that I came back from seeing a doctor about what i thought was an enlarged spleen. As it turns out it was simply damage to the stomach lining from taking powdered supplements like piracetam and aniracetam. To be safe make sure you don't take a bunch of capsules at once like I used to. Also, be sure to drink lots of water and take aniracetam with food.

Repairable damage, I hope. Did your physician indicate capsules would be more or less damaging? Did s/he indicate which supplements were the worst offenders, how to minimize future problems, etc?

[longevitynow]

I voted "moderate" effects after 3 months of continuous use. In truth, with daily use, I often don't notice that much cognitively, but it has an adaptogenic effect on my energy. With daily use, I have fewer of the "major creative/slight-hypomanic episodes" that I get from more occasional use. As if the daily use buffered the "high" I often get from it. I have been taking it for 3-4 months continuously except for short break over the holidays, hoping for some noticeable improvement in my memory; haven't seen it. Better dream recall when I use it in late afternoon/evening (is that an "improved memory" effect?). I still love it, but I prefer the bigger bumps I get from using it more sporadically. I'd also recommend others add exercise to their piracetam regimen. I do a little 1/2 hour before aerobics and my mind seems to wake up and I have a lot of insights while exercising.

[Moddy2012]

I voted "moderate" effects after 3 months of continuous use. In truth, with daily use, I often don't notice that much cognitively, but it has an adaptogenic effect on my energy. With daily use, I have fewer of the "major creative/slight-hypomanic episodes" that I get from more occasional use. As if the daily use buffered the "high" I often get from it. I have been taking it for 3-4 months continuously except for short break over the holidays, hoping for some noticeable improvement in my memory; haven't seen it. Better dream recall when I use it in late afternoon/evening (is that an "improved memory" effect?). I still love it, but I prefer the bigger bumps I get from using it more sporadically. I'd also recommend others add exercise to their piracetam regimen. I do a little 1/2 hour before aerobics and my mind seems to wake up and I have a lot of insights while exercising.

I have decided to upgrade to Modafinil, Piracetam for me is too weak. And something like Adderall maybe too strong. Piracetam is like a Chevy. Modafinil is like a BMW/Audi/MB.

[longevitynow]

I voted "moderate" effects after 3 months of continuous use. In truth, with daily use, I often don't notice that much cognitively, but it has an adaptogenic effect on my energy. With daily use, I have fewer of the "major creative/slight-hypomanic episodes" that I get from more occasional use. As if the daily use buffered the "high" I often get from it. I have been taking it for 3-4 months continuously except for short break over the holidays, hoping for some noticeable improvement in my memory; haven't seen it. Better dream recall when I use it in late afternoon/evening (is that an "improved memory" effect?). I still love it, but I prefer the bigger bumps I get from using it more sporadically. I'd also recommend others add exercise to their piracetam regimen. I do a little 1/2 hour before aerobics and my mind seems to wake up and I have a lot of insights while exercising.

I have decided to upgrade to Modafinil, Piracetam for me is too weak. And something like Adderall maybe too strong. Piracetam is like a Chevy. Modafinil is like a BMW/Audi/MB.

I like Piracetam, but notice it more with stimulating herbs, caffeine, DMAE, etc. If you decide to go with modafanil or other stimulants, try the Piracetam with it. Deprenyl, for instance, makes me sharper, but Piracetam increases my divergent thinking, and therefore creativity.

[kair0s]

Just thought I'd add that I came back from seeing a doctor about what i thought was an enlarged spleen. As it turns out it was simply damage to the stomach lining from taking powdered supplements like piracetam and aniracetam. To be safe make sure you don't take a bunch of capsules at once like I used to. Also, be sure to drink lots of water and take aniracetam with food.

I usually take all of mine at once (I just started taking nootropics recently). Am I suppose to spread them out during the day more?

[Wurzel Bagman]

Just thought I'd add that I came back from seeing a doctor about what i thought was an enlarged spleen. As it turns out it was simply damage to the stomach lining from taking powdered supplements like piracetam and aniracetam. To be safe make sure you don't take a bunch of capsules at once like I used to. Also, be sure to drink lots of water and take aniracetam with food.

Repairable damage, I hope. Did your physician indicate capsules would be more or less damaging? Did s/he indicate which supplements were the worst offenders, how to minimize future problems, etc?

I reckon it's just acute damage similar to the damage that can be done from a night of heavy drinking. I didn't mention the supplements/nootropics to the doctor as that would probably just stir up an awkward conversation about why I'm taking experimental research chemicals :P I figure it was the piracetam and aniracetam since I would sometimes take 2-6 700mg pills with a somewhat minimal amount of water. After a minute or two I would feel this horrible burning sensation. Dry powder eating away at the lining much? :P I would drink a bunch of water and feel better. To minimize any damage I will simply be sure to not gobble multiple pills at a time and drink tons of water when I do take them.

I usually take all of mine at once (I just started taking nootropics recently). Am I suppose to spread them out during the day more?

Spreading them out will not only be better on your stomach lining but will also result in greater absorption and thus more pronounced effects. I find that when I split my dose by taking a single pill every hour for a few hours I get a lot more benefits from the noots than just single large doses. Another way to amplify the effects and help your stomach is to take them and do some moderate to intense exercise to really get your blood pumping.

Edited by SynapticWeasel, 16 January 2011 - 04:52 AM.

[nezxon]

The vast majority of posts on piracetam here appear to be from relatively new users who come here to share their experiences. Frankly, I find that the most of individuals on these forums who have used piracetam for any substantial amount of time have complained of tolerance to the point of not feeling it at all. To test the hypothesis, a poll! I did a search, and came up with no such poll, so I apologize in advance if this has already been asked.

So, is there anyone here for piracetam continued to work after 3+ months of continued use?

Please do not vote in this poll if you have not used Piracetam for more than 3 months.

I haven't voted in this poll yet because I've only been using Piracetam for about a month (among other nootropics). I have some frustration about the fact that the vast majority of people involved in the nootropic community seem to be "temporary users". From reading posts about tolerance and reading research on chemical and enzymatic changes in the brain caused by piracetam, I've drawn the inference that it's likely a problem with perception not effectiveness. After 3 months people don't feel them anymore because our metacognitive analysis of our intelligence is based on a fuzzy time frame. I suggest they don't feel like they're making us smarter because we feel just as smart as we've felt lately.

It's my hypothesis that if we had subjects participate in a year long experiment, taking piracetam daily, and performing an evaluation of their cognitive abilities (logic, facial recognition, dual-n-back, etc) say once per week, I believe the subjects would still be performing or improving at a greater level than a control group; even after 12 months, long outside the window of people reporting tolerance or that they don't feel it anymore. Unfortunately I can't see any way to test that hypothesis in the immediate future.

The reason I believe this because I haven't found any evidence that receptor modulation, neurotransmitter activity, and other mechanisms ever slow down or reverse at any point during treatment. Even in years long experiments, the biological and electrochemical changes are still present in animals so it makes sense to me that if the biological mechanisms are intact, the cognitive enhancements are likely still present even if the subject can't perceive the effects.

[rvogels1]

That's a pretty standard perspective. In order to continually experience the cognitive improvement we metacognitively observe in the initial month or two of supplementation, piracetam would have to have an exponential build-up effect on our cognition, which is pure fantasy. We hit a plateau that is indeed shifted from our non-piracetam influenced plateau but then fail to recognize the shift as we're so focused on the day to day, week to week change.

Piracetam does not stop working. It's simply that your general cognitive performance reaches a new default state. Initial supplementation boosts you into this new state of cognition whereas continual, maintenance supplementation after that preserves the state of mind that piracetam has brought you to. After six months, I'm still loving it.

[Thorsten3]

To the last poster....

Or, in other words, you build tolerance to it. I doubt Piracetam is this magic molecule that catapults you into a superior mindset. There isn't any evidence that it has long lasting beneficial effects on cognition AFAIK.

I do know what you mean though. Maybe Piracetam actually stresses the body (hence you end up feeling like crap on it with chronic use) and the ramped up brain (irritable, speedy, racing thoughts) is a side effect of how it has messed with your adrenals.

When I take Piracetam nowadays I get zero colour saturation, no hypomanic effects.. It just feels like a dirty stimulant. I suppose I used it quite a lot for about a year but my dose was never more than 1g (necked first thing in the morning). The initial effects were incredible and I thought I'd found the answer to everything but soon discovered that chronic use would lead to a crash after a couple of weeks. So I cycled it every couple of weeks and got positive effects for about a year. Then whenever I took P again it made me very stressed and irritable each and every time. Now I take it I don't even get that and the visual effects are no longer present. Maybe I have a dodgy batch here but in terms of taste and texture this stuff I have is 100% similar.