9 replies to this topic

[gwen]

Both have show to improve NMDA activity (and consequently the dopamine prefrontal pathway...) without risk of excitotoxicity.D-serine acts like glycine as a co-neurotransmitter in the NMDA receptor,is more effective to cross the BBB than glycine at lower dose.Sarcosine is a glycine recaptation inhibitor...

Someone kwow where i could buy these stuff?

PS: Excuse me ,my english is very very basic!

Edited by gwen, 05 February 2010 - 07:02 PM.

[maxwatt]

Both have show to improve NMDA activity (and consequently the dopamine prefrontal pathway...) without risk of excitotoxicity.D-serine acts like glycine as a co-neurotransmitter in the NMDA receptor,is more effective to cross the BBB than glycine at lower dose.Sarcosine is a glycine recaptation inhibitor...

Someone kwow where i could buy these stuff?

PS: Excuse me ,my english is very very basic!

I know of sources of L-serine, which may be what you are actually looking for.

Edited by maxwatt, 05 February 2010 - 08:23 PM.

[gwen]

Yes, L-serine form is easly available but i'm not sur that his supplemantation can really help, d-serine synthesis is limited by serine racemase from L-serine...

Thanks for respond

[maxwatt]

Yes, L-serine form is easly available but i'm not sur that his supplemantation can really help, d-serine synthesis is limited by serine racemase from L-serine...

Thanks for respond

I think you are referring to this paper http://www.pnas.org/.../97/9/4926.long

Functional activity of N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptors requires both glutamate binding and the binding of an endogenous coagonist that has been presumed to be glycine, although d-serine is a more potent agonist. Localizations of d-serine and it biosynthetic enzyme serine racemase approximate the distribution of NMDA receptors more closely than glycine. We now show that selective degradation of d-serine with d-amino acid oxidase greatly attenuates NMDA receptor-mediated neurotransmission as assessed by using whole-cell patch–clamp recordings or indirectly by using biochemical assays of the sequelae of NMDA receptor-mediated calcium flux. The inhibitory effects of the enzyme are fully reversed by exogenously applied d-serine, which by itself did not potentiate NMDA receptor-mediated synaptic responses. Thus, d-serine is an endogenous modulator of the glycine site of NMDA receptors and fully occupies this site at some functional synapses.

This could have implications for Huntington's disease.

Increasing the availability of l-serine might increase the natural endogenous synthesis of d-serine. L-serine is not inactive, and has been proposed at a dose of 2 grams in conjunction with 200 mg of caffeine (about two cups of coffee) to speed the metabolization of alcohol. It also is said to increase the NAD/NADH ratio in cells, which may mimic some effects of caloric restriction.

[gwen]

It's good to know!

Actually i'm more focused in schizophrenia research issues,i considere that his caracteristic implication of glutamate deficience system is actually one of the more important target in nootropic strategy.
We know quite well the nootropics issues derived from alzheimer,parkinson,depression investigacion (acetylcholine,dopamine and serotonin precursors, IMAO's etc etc...) but the comprehension of the shizophrenia mechanisms and his potential nootropic treament have been subestimed or simply unknows in the comunity.Simplifying,the disease is characterized by "positive symptoms"result of the D2 receptor overactivity in ganglio basal (mesolimbic) on the one hand and a hypometabolism in the rest of cortex particulary in D1 prefrontal receptors (negative symptoms).Negative symptoms are principaly vinculed with deficience in comunications capacity,poor creativity in speech ,linguistic cognition in general,working memory and a subtyp of depression/apaty lack of motivation , consequently social and affective retraction.

Until recently shizophrenia treatment was focused to control positive symptoms with D2 antagonists ( typical antipsychotics) wich not improve cognitive syptoms and any atypicals with sligt improvement.More recently glutamate hypofunction has been implicated in the dopamine mesolimbic/mesocortex unbalance ,NMDA circuit modulate dopamine neurons
inhibiting D2 activity though dopamine mesolimbic pathway and "activing" the projection of corical pyramidal neurons to dopamines neurons in prefrontal cortex from the tegmental area.
Then that is the point,NMDA agonists and coagonists are under investigacion(some of then in phase 3),they have show to be effective,specially for improve negative/cognitive symptoms .NMDA coagonists seems tu be particulary interesants ,they don't show to have a risk of exitotoxicity like direct agonists (maybe taurine or magnesium could help in this case?)Further this strategy could be more effective in comparison to simply take dopamine precursors or IMAO to release dopamine.
Besides that,AMPAkines have show to be effective and are in investigacion too and also is being considered neurotrofic treatments for HPA but is another story...

Treatment issues for shizophrenia cognitive symptoms could be very interesants to our purposes.

[zorba990]

Both have show to improve NMDA activity (and consequently the dopamine prefrontal pathway...) without risk of excitotoxicity.D-serine acts like glycine as a co-neurotransmitter in the NMDA receptor,is more effective to cross the BBB than glycine at lower dose.Sarcosine is a glycine recaptation inhibitor...

Someone kwow where i could buy these stuff?

PS: Excuse me ,my english is very very basic!

http://www.musclewar...m/rnd_nmda.html

Haven't tried it. I'll wait to see what side effects might show up from direct NMDA supplementation.
Seems slightly risky to me...

[NR2(x)]

Gwen think your onto something, I think you have or are putting the pieces together,

Heres a check list
Do you know what Long Term Potentiation is?
Do you Know what Long term depression is?, (the importance of LTD is often underestimated, alcohol and weed enhance LTD significantly, mode of action?
Do you Know the difference between the function of synaptic and extrasynptic receptors(very important)
Do you understand differing subunits of NMDARs via location and role eg NR1a,NR2a,NR2b

Glycine appears to be a bad idea as increases extrasynptic NMDAR component verse the synaptic nmdar.

d-serine or d-cycloserine look very good, covalent bond?

phosphitidlyserine could be a gd source of L-serine which has many general benefits

I think the general population has schizophrenia(negative symptoms) manefesting in things like bipolar, add, aspergers which are all a form of negative schizophrenia that is endemic to almost everybody caused by eurgenic campgains. You will find it extremely hard to get any medication that has been shown to improve negative symptoms

Edited by chrono, 19 November 2010 - 06:13 PM.

[protoject]

Note: some studies show that in schizophrenic patients, L-serine to D-serine ratio is higher than normal [reference needed]

[Ark]

Both have show to improve NMDA activity (and consequently the dopamine prefrontal pathway...) without risk of excitotoxicity.D-serine acts like glycine as a co-neurotransmitter in the NMDA receptor,is more effective to cross the BBB than glycine at lower dose.Sarcosine is a glycine recaptation inhibitor...

Someone kwow where i could buy these stuff?

PS: Excuse me ,my english is very very basic!

Jarrow's has D-serine product that works well.

Also

Cerebralhealth.com has Sarcosine bulk


Good luck also i've heard Memantine helps with NMDA

[Adan]

Both have show to improve NMDA activity (and consequently the dopamine prefrontal pathway...) without risk of excitotoxicity.D-serine acts like glycine as a co-neurotransmitter in the NMDA receptor,is more effective to cross the BBB than glycine at lower dose.Sarcosine is a glycine recaptation inhibitor...

Someone kwow where i could buy these stuff?

PS: Excuse me ,my english is very very basic!

Jarrow's has D-serine product that works well.

Also

Cerebralhealth.com has Sarcosine bulk


Good luck also i've heard Memantine helps with NMDA

How reliable is cerebralhealth? Will they send the real stuff? I want to order sarcosine but I don't want to get tricked for my money by being sent sugar instead.

edit: I just noticed that the website is run out of a university. I guess that makes them seem more legit. I still have some doubts though, what do you think of cerebral health Ark?

Edited by Antonio, 18 December 2011 - 03:07 AM.