17 replies to this topic

[smithx]

I started taking resveratrol when it was first on the market in 2002 or so. For the last couple of years I had taken doses ranging from 2g a day down to 500mg a day, all RevGenetics 99% as soon as that became available.

During that time I was also taking zinc, 50mg and using some other products containing zinc which may have added an extra 20mg or so a day.

In January I suddenly experienced tingling and hypersensitivity in my hands and feet. It became painful to touch anything or to walk.

During the next few days, the symptoms became worse, with burning wind-burn like sensations on my hands and feed. The sensations also started traveling up my legs and arms.

A few days later, my lips, tongue and teeth became numb, and the windburn started to go up my face. My eyes felt as if menthol eyedrops had been put in them.

I noticed weakness in my legs and an intermittent lack of balance. These symptoms were all very disturbing, so I went to a neurologist who gave me a full battery of blood tests including heavy metal toxicity, B12 deficiency, etc. All normal. He suggested that it was likely early stages of guillain-barre syndrome.

I put myself on a regimen of supplements which have had some efficacy in treating neuropathy, and also started high-doses of n-acetyl glucosamine (based on this research Glucosamine-like supplement inhibits multiple sclerosis, type-1 diabetes , (which is worthy of its own topic elsewhere) and also on the fact that G-B can be induced by exposure to bacteria containing NAG on their surfaces, but not by identical bacteria differing only in their lack of NAG).

I also discontinued resveratrol. The symptoms failed to improve, so I continued researching given the dearth of treatment options and my specialist's "wait and see" attitude.

I came across this article Copper Deficiency Myeloneuropathy Resembling B12 Deficiency, and this very interesting page: VITAMIN & NUTRITION RELATED SYNDROMES, both of which indicated that zinc could cause copper deficiency by inhibiting absorption, and that copper deficiency could cause the neuropathy I was experiencing.

I'm now wondering whether resveratrol could have contributed to this by causing more excretion of the copper I already did have endogenously: Plant polyphenols mobilize endogenous copper in human peripheral lymphocytes leading to oxidative DNA breakage: a putative mechanism for anticancer properties.

I started taking copper sulfate (6mg/day for 1 week, 4mg/day for 1 week, then 2mg/day) and my symptoms improved quickly. Unfortunately I had been taking it for a week before I decided to get a ceruloplasmin test, and at that point I tested low-normal. So it's unclear if copper deficiency was the cause, or what was (is) going on.

Another anecdotal data point: I suffered a herniated disc as well, and it's been suggested that copper deficiency can weaken connective tissue.

It's all rather confusing, but still I think that some of the heavy users of resveratrol would be well advised to check their serum ceruloplasmin levels and I'd be curious to know what they find.

Edited by smithx, 19 May 2010 - 01:43 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

Doesn't green tea chelate copper as well. Alot of Resv users drink/supplement it as well.

[Lufega]

What effect did you get from high dose NAG? I really like this supplement because oral use can increase hyaluronic acid synthesis. I just don't know how high is safe to go.

Also, it might be in your best interest to discontinue all supplement to see if any of these pathologies are reversible on their own. I reach a similar "copper deficiency" conclusion years earlier but my research lead to a dead end. I started using copper supplements and I think it had the effect of activating MMP's creating another inguinal hernia. I probably used too much for too long.


There is also a small chance that it's all coincidence. However, it seems logical to assume low copper status is/was the problem. The treatment for Wilson's disease (abnormal copper storage) is zinc 3xday to chelate all the copper.

[niner]

Sounds like copper deficiency is a good call. Between the supplemental zinc you were consuming plus what you got from your diet, you were exceeding the RDA by a factor of ten. Since we know that zinc will push down copper levels, and that they should be supplemented in a balance of around 1 part Cu to 10 parts Zn by weight, I think you have the culprit.

[Lufega]

[Acquired copper deficiency myelopathy.]
[Article in French]

Videt-Gibou D, Belliard S, Rivalan J, Ménard D, Edan G.

Service de neurologie, CHU Pontchaillou, rue Henri-Le-Guilloux, 35000 Rennes, France.

Abstract
INTRODUCTION: The hematological manifestations of acquired copper deficiency are well known. But the neurological manifestations have only been recognised in the past few years. The most common neurological manifestation in adults is a myeloneuropathy with prominent sensory ataxia and spastic gait. Electrophysiological tests reveal an axonal sensorimotor peripheral neuropathy. Spinal MRI shows an augmented T2 signal involving the dorsal column. The causes of acquired copper deficiency include gastric surgery, excessive zinc ingestion, and malabsorption but in most cases, the cause remains unclear. Early recognition and treatment may prevent neurological deterioration but improvement seems to be slight and inconstant. OBSERVATION: We report two new cases of acquired copper deficiency myeloneuropathy associated with a nephrotic syndrome and, in one case, with a major iron overload syndrome. Biological abnormalities disappeared under copper supplementation. A significant neurological improvement with disappearance of ataxia occurred in one patient who received copper supplementation eight months after symptom onset. CONCLUSIONS: Nephrotic syndrome might be another complication of acquired copper deficiency. Delayed treatment is not necessarily associated with a deleterious neurological prognosis. Significant neurological improvement under copper supplementation is possible. Copyright © 2009 Elsevier Masson SAS. All rights reserved.

[tunt01]

this is one of the concerns that I had. i would not take a high dose of resveratrol, only a very low dose.

[niner]

this is one of the concerns that I had. i would not take a high dose of resveratrol, only a very low dose.

But it wasn't caused by resveratrol; it was caused by a zinc overdose. resveratrol might have contributed in a minor way, but I don't think this sort of neuropathy has ever been reported from resveratrol alone. I wouldn't have any qualms about any resveratrol dose up to a gram, anyway. I actually take pains to limit my copper intake. Too much ain't good either.

[markymark]

Hya Smithx,
this is a very important and valuable posting. I have also posted about the to-much-zinc-might-cause-copper-deficiency-issue here. Simply, it seems that zinc supplementation can be overdone (of course zing is a very important component of an anti aging regimen and lot's of mostly old people suffer from zinc-deficiency). In addition, the copper chelating effect of T-resv does also come into play.
I am happy that your symptoms subsided with copper. I did also check my copper a year ago (whole blood, serum, coeruloplasmin, result serum/coeruloplamin: low normal, whole blood below: normal) while being on 500 mg Transmax (99%) for > 4 yrs. I usually cycle it for 1 week.. Since then I take Twinlab's copper 2 mg on 5 days of the week.

It is certainly a good advice for any heavy users of resveratrol or other "new" supplements to have lab-tests being done.....

MM

I started taking resveratrol when it was first on the market in 2002 or so. For the last couple of years I had taken doses ranging from 2g a day down to 500mg a day, all RevGenetics 99% as soon as that became available.

During that time I was also taking zinc, 50mg and using some other products containing zinc which may have added an extra 20mg or so a day.

In January I suddenly experienced tingling and hypersensitivity in my hands and feet. It became painful to touch anything or to walk.

During the next few days, the symptoms became worse, with burning wind-burn like sensations on my hands and feed. The sensations also started traveling up my legs and arms.

A few days later, my lips, tongue and teeth became numb, and the windburn started to go up my face. My eyes felt as if menthol eyedrops had been put in them.

I noticed weakness in my legs and an intermittent lack of balance. These symptoms were all very disturbing, so I went to a neurologist who gave me a full battery of blood tests including heavy metal toxicity, B12 deficiency, etc. All normal. He suggested that it was likely early stages of guillain-barre syndrome.

I put myself on a regimen of supplements which have had some efficacy in treating neuropathy, and also started high-doses of n-acetyl glucosamine (based on this research Glucosamine-like supplement inhibits multiple sclerosis, type-1 diabetes , (which is worthy of its own topic elsewhere) and also on the fact that G-B can be induced by exposure to bacteria containing NAG on their surfaces, but not by identical bacteria differing only in their lack of NAG).

I also discontinued resveratrol. The symptoms failed to improve, so I continued researching given the dearth of treatment options and my specialist's "wait and see" attitude.

I came across this article Copper Deficiency Myeloneuropathy Resembling B12 Deficiency, and this very interesting page: VITAMIN & NUTRITION RELATED SYNDROMES, both of which indicated that zinc could cause copper deficiency by inhibiting absorption, and that copper deficiency could cause the neuropathy I was experiencing.

I'm now wondering whether resveratrol could have contributed to this by causing more excretion of the copper I already did have endogenously: Plant polyphenols mobilize endogenous copper in human peripheral lymphocytes leading to oxidative DNA breakage: a putative mechanism for anticancer properties.

I started taking copper sulfate (6mg/day for 1 week, 4mg/day for 1 week, then 2mg/day) and my symptoms improved quickly. Unfortunately I had been taking it for a week before I decided to get a ceruloplasmin test, and at that point I tested low-normal. So it's unclear if copper deficiency was the cause, or what was (is) going on.

Another anecdotal data point: I suffered a herniated disc as well, and it's been suggested that copper deficiency can weaken connective tissue.

It's all rather confusing, but still I think that some of the would be well advised to check their serum ceruloplasmin levels and I'd be curious to know what they find.

[farang]

Did you take any statins to lower cholesterol?
I did, and developed neuropathy, which I am trying to recover from, one year later.

[mikeinnaples]

Did you take any statins to lower cholesterol?
I did, and developed neuropathy, which I am trying to recover from, one year later.

Farang ....speaking from personal experience, CoQ10 fixes the problem within a week or two and it will not reoccur as long as you continue supplementing it while on the statin. If you do some google searching, you will see lots of information to that effect.

Personally, I would suggest 200mg a day of CoQ10.

[farang]

Thanks, Mike. I did take some CoQ10, but it did not really fix the problem. I am in the process of changing my amalgam fillings which are full of mercury, a neurotoxin. Let's see how it goes, perhaps it will help.

[mikeinnaples]

Thanks, Mike. I did take some CoQ10, but it did not really fix the problem. I am in the process of changing my amalgam fillings which are full of mercury, a neurotoxin. Let's see how it goes, perhaps it will help.

Define some? It required a rather large dosage and a few weeks for it to reverse it.

200mg x 2 weeks with no statin to reverse before starting the statin again. 200mg maintenance dose to prevent reoccurance.

My statin dose was 10mg.

[Anthony_Loera]

I am in the process of changing my amalgam fillings which are full of mercury, a neurotoxin. Let's see how it goes, perhaps it will help.

Good choice, I had mine out for a bit now... It may not be apparent in the beginning, but I at least did notice a difference after some time.

[eml256]

Much of the neuropathy due to statin adverse effects are permanent and not fixed by coQ10 supplementation. if interested, read studies by Dr. Paul Phillips, interventional cardiologist from san diego, ca, or google Dr. duane graveline to access his web site concerning statin adverse effects.

[mikeinnaples]

Much of the neuropathy due to statin adverse effects are permanent and not fixed by coQ10 supplementation. if interested, read studies by Dr. Paul Phillips, interventional cardiologist from san diego, ca, or google Dr. duane graveline to access his web site concerning statin adverse effects.

If the neuropathy or myopathy from statins was permanent, I wouldn't be able to exercise at all right now. Anyways, if you have actual links to actual peer reviewed studies, I would be interested in seeing them. I've never heard of Paul Phillips and the only thing I see him quoted in is via a quick search is marketing garbage for 'alternatives' to statins. So any links to real studies would be appreciated.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 06 July 2010 - 03:29 PM.

[eml256]

google tarnoplasky and baker and read their studies. and if you utilize google scholar to search you will be more successful finding paul phillips info.
and you are lucky indeed if you hae recovered from statin induced neuropathy

Edited by eml256, 09 July 2010 - 02:02 AM.

[farang]

I can only speak from personal experience, and I never had neuropathy before - until I started taking Crestor (a statin). I did take CoenzymeQ to try to reduce side effects (including neuropathy). After more than one year, I feel better (having been prescribed vitsB1+6+12) but the neuropathy is not completely gone - so I am afraid it may be permanent.

[markymark]

I can only speak from personal experience, and I never had neuropathy before - until I started taking Crestor (a statin). I did take CoenzymeQ to try to reduce side effects (including neuropathy). After more than one year, I feel better (having been prescribed vitsB1+6+12) but the neuropathy is not completely gone - so I am afraid it may be permanent.

There is site and ?ongoing? study where statin side effects can be reportetd to: https://www.statineffects.com/info/