12 replies to this topic

[betsyg]

My Husband (an M.D.)and I have been invited to a seminar sponsered by EverPharm in july . The speakers will be some of the top doctors in Europe who have many years of experience using this drug.

I will be happy to take as many questions as I can to present at the seminar and post the answers here.

[chrono]

I bet I'll have another good question or two when I have time to look over my research notes. How long until you leave for the conference?

I for one really appreciate your offer, and your willingness to share your experience with those of us whose interest is more experimental than clinical.

[betsyg]

It starts July 15 in Guadalajara, Mexico. I do not have all the details yet but there will be 4 topics, one a week for 4 weeks. the first discussion will be on the different applications of CBR.....Dementia, addiction, stroke, cerebral palsey, Downs.....and all the rest.


I am very passionate about this subject. There are some very bright and quizical minds on this forum. I look forward to the questions.

[bobman]

Yes.

What is the danger of introducing brain peptides to the immune system like this? Is it possible that after Cerbrolysin use stroke would result in greater cerebral insult? (Note I'm not asking if Cerebrolysin increases stroke risk, but rather whether there is a greater immune response when the bbb is broken).

How certain is Ebewe that Cerebrolysin use carries no risk of cross-species infection? Do intramuscular injection carry less less risk of infection? Despite the fact that <20kDa filters are used, there must be some risk of disease transmittance, considering how poorly understood prion vectors are.

Why do some post-encephalopathy patients report that that Cerbrolysin effect last between 1-2 years? Could this have to do with natural cell-turnover (90% of your cells are replaced every ~2 years)?
-What is the latest understanding on how Cerbrolysin works? Since the effect is so long lasting, can it be assumed that Cerebrolysin affects gene expression by long-term modification of epigenetic markers? What research is being done on this possibility?

Thanks a bunch.

[betsyg]

Yes.

What is the danger of introducing brain peptides to the immune system like this? Is it possible that after Cerbrolysin use stroke would result in greater cerebral insult? (Note I'm not asking if Cerebrolysin increases stroke risk, but rather whether there is a greater immune response when the bbb is broken).

How certain is Ebewe that Cerebrolysin use carries no risk of cross-species infection? Do intramuscular injection carry less less risk of infection? Despite the fact that <20kDa filters are used, there must be some risk of disease transmittance, considering how poorly understood prion vectors are.

Why do some post-encephalopathy patients report that that Cerbrolysin effect last between 1-2 years? Could this have to do with natural cell-turnover (90% of your cells are replaced every ~2 years)?
-What is the latest understanding on how Cerbrolysin works? Since the effect is so long lasting, can it be assumed that Cerebrolysin affects gene expression by long-term modification of epigenetic markers? What research is being done on this possibility?

Thanks a bunch.

Great Questions.....

[Guacamolium]

I have a question that I'd like answered please:

Why isn't there a subcutaneous version of Cerebrolysin? They're a mix of peptides, so why not?

[chrono]

Here are the questions I've come up with regarding the practical aspects of CRB usage.

• Combinations: Russianbear mentioned that the package insert warns against using CRB with other peptide drugs. I'm very curious about why this would be, what specific consequences might result, and anything that would make it safer (e.g. taking them at opposite ends of the day). Also, what other types of drugs should be avoided when taking CRB, and why?
  
• Cycling : What is the specific reasoning for Ebewe's recommended dosing schedule (5 days on/2 off for 4 weeks, then 2 months off)? Is it related to minimizing side effects, avoiding over-stimulating the brain in some way, or to avoid tolerance? I'm particularly interested in whether they think tolerance develops to any of the neurotrophic effects, as this might be relevant to other neurogenic substances.
  
• Composition: We've been discussing the composition of CRB in this thread. The only hints I've been able to find are in other Ebewe patents which don't explicitly state that CRB is similar. I imagine by this point that they know what peptides CRB is comprised of, and I'd really like to know what they are! It might be better to ask for research references into the exact composition, rather than expecting someone to tell you the peptides.
  
  Also, does CBR have any kind of preservative or anti-bacterial? We discussed (starting here) some of the possible consequences of splitting an ampoule if it does not.
  
• Antibodies: A modified CNTF fragment called Axokine was clinically trialled for treating obesity. It was found that after 3 months, 70% of patients developed antibodies to this fragment. The possibility has been raised that these antibodies may also be effective against endogenous CNTF, which would have a very negative impact on cognition and brain health. As some of the CRB peptides may be CNTF fragments, what is the possibility that it induces the release of antibodies in a similar way?
  
• Oral Administration: There was one study (which I examined here) suggesting that some of CRB's effects are present when administered orally. I thought the study was pretty weak, but I'd like to know what others think of this possibility. Would the peptides be expected to survive the stomach, and reach the bloodstream/brain in appreciable amounts? Are there any methods (such as liposomal dissolution) which might make this route viable?
  
  There is also a product called Memoprove, which supposedly contains the 2 peptides N-PEP-12 (see this thread for discussion, and a few posts in the main thread). Reviews of this seem to be almost universally negative. I wonder what the doctoral crowd thinks of N-PEP-12?
  
• New Product: Ebewe has a patent application which was filed in Europe in 2008, and in the US this year, detailing a number of peptides which have neurogenic properties (see this post). Sounds a lot like CRB, but the patent doesn't explicitly state this. I'm wondering if anyone there knows of a new product in the pipeline (and will say anything about it), or if they can confirm if these peptides were derived from CRB.
  
• IM vs. IV: I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about this issue you raised; whether it's simply more effective at a given dose, or if efficacy is categorically better (some effects from IV you can't get from IM?).
  
• Prions: Ebewe has sort-of mentioned that there is no danger of prion contamination in CRB. Trevyn made a good case that this is true here. I'd still like to hear exactly what steps in the extraction process exclude them, and whether any testing is done afterward.
  
• Healthy Subjects: This isn't a specific question, but I'd be very interested in knowing what these kinds of people think of CRB as a nootropic. Does it have applicability to ADD or other learning disabilities? And most interestingly, what is its potential for healthy subjects with no cognitive impairment (and what mechanism is responsible for this)? Are there any special considerations for this group of users?
  
• Dosing: Most people here seem to use the same amount you use in your practice (5mL/day), but some studies use as much as 60mL. What benefits have others observed at increased dosages? What negative consequences might arise from unnecessarily large doses?
  
• Anaphylactic shock: is this type of reaction possible with CRB, as it was with actovegin?

I don't know what format this will be—whether it's a meet & greet, or just lectures, where you might only get to ask one question. I've ordered these in approximate sequence of importance, though I'd like to think these are all highly relevant.

Thanks in advance for your research. Needless to say I'm interested in pretty much anything that will be said at the conference. I tried to list practical questions here, but I'd like to hear what the current understanding of safety and mechanisms is, as well. I hope you'll favor us with lots of information when you're able!

[betsyg]

We are going to the first lecture tomorrow night. I am not sure what to expect, how many people will be there, what will be covered....It is a dinner, there will be speakers and a chance for Q and A. This will be the first of four talks scheduled, I will do my best to get some good answers.....and try not to hog the floor. Thanks for all the great cuestions.

Here are the questions I've come up with regarding the practical aspects of CRB usage.

• Combinations: Russianbear mentioned that the package insert warns against using CRB with other peptide drugs. I'm very curious about why this would be, what specific consequences might result, and anything that would make it safer (e.g. taking them at opposite ends of the day). Also, what other types of drugs should be avoided when taking CRB, and why?
  
• Cycling : What is the specific reasoning for Ebewe's recommended dosing schedule (5 days on/2 off for 4 weeks, then 2 months off)? Is it related to minimizing side effects, avoiding over-stimulating the brain in some way, or to avoid tolerance? I'm particularly interested in whether they think tolerance develops to any of the neurotrophic effects, as this might be relevant to other neurogenic substances.
  
• Composition: We've been discussing the composition of CRB in this thread. The only hints I've been able to find are in other Ebewe patents which don't explicitly state that CRB is similar. I imagine by this point that they know what peptides CRB is comprised of, and I'd really like to know what they are! It might be better to ask for research references into the exact composition, rather than expecting someone to tell you the peptides.
  
  Also, does CBR have any kind of preservative or anti-bacterial? We discussed (starting here) some of the possible consequences of splitting an ampoule if it does not.
  
• Antibodies: A modified CNTF fragment called Axokine was clinically trialled for treating obesity. It was found that after 3 months, 70% of patients developed antibodies to this fragment. The possibility has been raised that these antibodies may also be effective against endogenous CNTF, which would have a very negative impact on cognition and brain health. As some of the CRB peptides may be CNTF fragments, what is the possibility that it induces the release of antibodies in a similar way?
  
• Oral Administration: There was one study (which I examined here) suggesting that some of CRB's effects are present when administered orally. I thought the study was pretty weak, but I'd like to know what others think of this possibility. Would the peptides be expected to survive the stomach, and reach the bloodstream/brain in appreciable amounts? Are there any methods (such as liposomal dissolution) which might make this route viable?
  
  There is also a product called Memoprove, which supposedly contains the 2 peptides N-PEP-12 (see this thread for discussion, and a few posts in the main thread). Reviews of this seem to be almost universally negative. I wonder what the doctoral crowd thinks of N-PEP-12?
  
• New Product: Ebewe has a patent application which was filed in Europe in 2008, and in the US this year, detailing a number of peptides which have neurogenic properties (see this post). Sounds a lot like CRB, but the patent doesn't explicitly state this. I'm wondering if anyone there knows of a new product in the pipeline (and will say anything about it), or if they can confirm if these peptides were derived from CRB.
  
• IM vs. IV: I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about this issue you raised; whether it's simply more effective at a given dose, or if efficacy is categorically better (some effects from IV you can't get from IM?).
  
• Prions: Ebewe has sort-of mentioned that there is no danger of prion contamination in CRB. Trevyn made a good case that this is true here. I'd still like to hear exactly what steps in the extraction process exclude them, and whether any testing is done afterward.
  
• Healthy Subjects: This isn't a specific question, but I'd be very interested in knowing what these kinds of people think of CRB as a nootropic. Does it have applicability to ADD or other learning disabilities? And most interestingly, what is its potential for healthy subjects with no cognitive impairment (and what mechanism is responsible for this)? Are there any special considerations for this group of users?
  
• Dosing: Most people here seem to use the same amount you use in your practice (5mL/day), but some studies use as much as 60mL. What benefits have others observed at increased dosages? What negative consequences might arise from unnecessarily large doses?
  
• Anaphylactic shock: is this type of reaction possible with CRB, as it was with actovegin?

I don't know what format this will be—whether it's a meet & greet, or just lectures, where you might only get to ask one question. I've ordered these in approximate sequence of importance, though I'd like to think these are all highly relevant.

Thanks in advance for your research. Needless to say I'm interested in pretty much anything that will be said at the conference. I tried to list practical questions here, but I'd like to hear what the current understanding of safety and mechanisms is, as well. I hope you'll favor us with lots of information when you're able!

[IronFanatic]

Hi betsyg,

Please do ask if taking drugs such drugs as actovegin, Semax, Selank in conjunction with Cerebrolysin can have a detrimental effect or not

Thanks

[arvcondor]

Whatever happened to the forthcoming answers from the talk?

[Logan]

Whatever happened to the forthcoming answers from the talk?

I'm wondering the same thing.

I'm on the verge of ordering some cerebrolysin from IAS, just have to hit one button.

[bobman]

Whatever happened to the forthcoming answers from the talk?

I'm wondering the same thing.

I'm on the verge of ordering some cerebrolysin from IAS, just have to hit one button.

She doesn't owe us anything, but I'm interested in hearing back as well, although damn, she must have gotten quite a few looks if she actually went through Chrono's list.

[katzenjammer]

Whatever happened to the forthcoming answers from the talk?

I'm wondering the same thing.

I'm on the verge of ordering some cerebrolysin from IAS, just have to hit one button.

She doesn't owe us anything, but I'm interested in hearing back as well, although damn, she must have gotten quite a few looks if she actually went through Chrono's list.

Those were great questions - I don't suppose anyone has any answers?