42 replies to this topic

[antibambi]

I've been taking Mushroom Science's Reishi Gano 161 at two/day over the past week and have been quite impressed with the results thus far. Medicinal mushrooms, I've heard, vary greatly from brand to brand due to the difficulty in properly extracting the various compounds within, as many mushrooms are fully or partly inedible. I usually use iHerb, and it seemed as though Mushroom Science was a top brand. Their product line focuses completely on mushrooms, and they grow them on wood and use a time-tested hot water extraction method. However, according to this source: https://cordycepsrei...t_hot_water.htm , the hot water extraction method is great at extracting the compounds responsible for the immune-stimulating effects (the polysacharides) but does not extract the triterpenoids, which can be extracted with alcohol and are responsible for the anti-inflammatory action of the mushroom.

Anyways, I've heard good things about Paul Stamets Fungi Perfecti line of shrooms, but they are ridiculously expensive (at iHerb, Mushroom Science Reishi 450 mg 90 capsules $25, Fungi Perfecti Reishi 500 mg 120 capsules $47). Apparently these combine the hot water extracts with the alcohol and one other extract to give the entire broad spectrum of compounds in a capsule form.

Through searches I've noticed a lack of interest in Reishi and other mushrooms on this sight, which is somewhat surprising given the studies on the immune system and anti-cancer benefits. A number of studies can be found through links here: http://www.reishi.com/index.htm

For those who do include medicinal mushrooms in their regimen, have any of you found any quality, perhaps lesser known brands?

Anyone have any experience with Mitobi brand mushroom extracts? http://www.mitobi.co...ma-extract.html

[nootrope]

I like Herb Pharm Reishi extract in alcohol.

[Animal]

Reishi Mushroom Supreme has always been excellent for me, especially at suppressing my hay-fever. It contains extracts from numerous other medicinal mushrooms as well as Reishi. You're meant to take six tablets a day, but the bottle only lasts about 2 weeks this way. You can take less and still get the effects, but this is something you would need to regulate yourself.

One to avoid is Swansons Reish Mushroom, had unpleasant side effects for me, including precipitous hypoglycaemia that was particularly unpleasant.

[iang]

I have tried many kinds of Reishi including the ones mentioned above. By far the best so far has been Reishi Essences Red Reishi. Fantastic stuff. You can find it at

My link

They also sell the real deal Reishi from Japan that's very hard to find (companies like Mikei, Nissan, Toi). I haven't tried their Japanese brands since they are pricey, but I have tried their inhouse brand, which is great. Their product offers 55% polysaccharides and between 40-50% beta glucans, which is much higher than what could be found on any "major" brands found on Iherb.

[ajnast4r]

bumping for more reliable mushroom brands using hot water/ethanol extracts... not interested in raw mushrooms.

so far:

mushroom science obviously is the best known name in the US i could find
NutraceuticsRx sells a few NuLiv extracts

[chrono]

Check out the Lion's Mane thread for some products, but a lot of them are specific to that mushroom. If cost is a factor, bulk whole-mushroom powder might be a viable option. Then there's no guessing about how sound a given company's extraction algorithm is, and options that are significantly cheaper than any pre-capsuled product can usually be found.

Mushroom Science uses a hot water extraction, and then precipitates by mixing with alcohol. This method is presumably based on Japanese research from the 60s (Ikekawa and Shibata), which found that immunomodulatory beta-glucans were water soluble. But as I've found in the Lion's Mane thread, not all target molecules are necessarily water soluble (at least in that mushroom), so I would think twice before using this company's products, no matter how well-known they seem to be.

[ajnast4r]

Check out the Lion's Mane thread for some products, but a lot of them are specific to that mushroom. If cost is a factor, bulk whole-mushroom powder might be a viable option. Then there's no guessing about how sound a given company's extraction algorithm is, and options that are significantly cheaper than any pre-capsuled product can usually be found.

Mushroom Science uses a hot water extraction, and then precipitates by mixing with alcohol. This method is presumably based on Japanese research from the 60s (Ikekawa and Shibata), which found that immunomodulatory beta-glucans were water soluble. But as I've found in the Lion's Mane thread, not all target molecules are necessarily water soluble (at least in that mushroom), so I would think twice before using this company's products, no matter how well-known they seem to be.

i did a bit of posting on this in the cordyceps thread... whole mushroom powder should have little to no bioavailability due to most of the goods beings locked up in the chittinous cell walls. this probably varies from mushroom to mushroom, as ive heard people having positive response from unextracted lions main... but i think its universally true with most medicinal mushrooms, especially ones aimed at immunomodulation(reishi, shiitake, maiitake, turkey tail, etc) that they should be extracted.

alcohol precipitation should extract lipid soluble compounds...atleast with mushroom science's reishi the lipid soluble compounds are present and accounted for.

Edited by ajnast4r, 15 November 2010 - 03:12 PM.

[chrono]

alcohol precipitation should extract lipid soluble compounds...atleast with mushroom science's reishi the lipid soluble compounds are present and accounted for.

I might be missing something here, but how do the lipid solubles get into the water in the first place, to then be precipitated with alcohol? Doesn't make sense to me on a very basic level.

[ajnast4r]

alcohol precipitation should extract lipid soluble compounds...atleast with mushroom science's reishi the lipid soluble compounds are present and accounted for.

I might be missing something here, but how do the lipid solubles get into the water in the first place, to then be precipitated with alcohol? Doesn't make sense to me on a very basic level.

honestly i'm not sure exactly the process they are using. i think they are extracting the mushroom with hot water, then extracting the remaining mass with alcohol, combining them & then spray drying. the website says they are "carefully processed with hot water and alcohol to ensure the presence of all the important bio-active compounds"

[chrono]

honestly i'm not sure exactly the process they are using. i think they are extracting the mushroom with hot water, then extracting the remaining mass with alcohol, combining them & then spray drying. the website says they are "carefully processed with hot water and alcohol to ensure the presence of all the important bio-active compounds"

This is the explanation I got from them when asking what hot "water/alcohol extraction" meant: "After hot water extraction we use precipitation with alcohol to further concentrate the complex polysaccharides.  We don't list every single step of the manufacturing process on the website."

To me, this indicates that they extract with hot water, then mix with alcohol to a certain concentration to reduce the solubility of certain molecules, and cause them to drop out of solution ("further concentrate" seems to indicate that they're modifying the water extract, rather than beginning another extraction). This is in line with what is commonly referred to as alcohol precipitation (I came across this term several times today while reading about mushrooms); the wikipedia even mentions that the process I described is used to concentrate polysaccharides. So in other words, it's a water extraction which is then further purified using alcohol——but there can be nothing in the final product which was not first soluble in water.

Their reishi product doesn't even use alcohol...it's a "dehydrated hot water extract." So I fail to see how a hot water extract can pull lipid components. A somewhat more clear version of your quote reads "Our Reishi Gano 161 fruit-body extract is a carefully processed hot water extraction using both water and alcohol, ensuring the presence of all the important bio-active compounds," implying that the hot water extract is processed with water/alcohol, and the water extract itself ensures the presence of active ingredients (as implied by their references and Why Hot Water? page).

This is why I like the Stamets products; they'll describe the process to you in a more detailed way (i.e. that doesn't seem like they're trying to obfuscate the requested information), and the extractions take into account actual solubility ranges, rather than self-congratulatory rhetoric assuming that traditional is best.

Edited by chrono, 16 November 2010 - 01:38 AM.

[ajnast4r]

...

yea mushrooms sciences website/info is quite lacking but i've exchange quite a few emails with the owner and he is pretty forthright. i actually asked him to come participate in some of the mushroom convos here, but he's away on business. when he replies to my last email i'll address some of the issues you presented then post back with his replies. thanks for the info

are you currently using an mushrooms? what brands do you prefer?

all this being said, i've been using MS's reishi and i've found it to be extremely effective for asthma & general inflammation. i seem to sleep more sound when i take it at night as well.

[Matt]

http://www.ahccresea...m/research.html

[ajnast4r]

http://www.ahccresearch.com/research.html

thanks for the link. ive been checking that stuff out its just so expensive

[Lovetolearn]

I've been using mushroom science's cordyceps for 8 days now at 1600mg's per day. So far its been disappointing as many other people I know who have used cordyceps have said that they could really feel it working. So far I have not had any reaction even close to that.

[Logan]

I've been using mushroom science's cordyceps for 8 days now at 1600mg's per day. So far its been disappointing as many other people I know who have used cordyceps have said that they could really feel it working. So far I have not had any reaction even close to that.

Double the dose

[Alec]

http://www.ahccresearch.com/research.html

thanks for the link. ive been checking that stuff out its just so expensive

I've taken this before and can say that I was impressed with the variety of positive results it gave. Digestive, skin, you name it. That's because your own immune system can take care of a lot of the conditions that supplements and drugs are supposed to help with. This helps stimulate the immune system. It's the only other mushroom supplement I trust besides agaricus blazei and shiitake. I took 1000 mg a day for a about a month.

[ajnast4r]

I've been using mushroom science's cordyceps for 8 days now at 1600mg's per day. So far its been disappointing as many other people I know who have used cordyceps have said that they could really feel it working. So far I have not had any reaction even close to that.

at 1.5g/day, initially i felt a pretty strong increase in libido and mild anti-fatigue effects but after about a week it started to give me pretty bad hypoglycemia that i wasnt able to resolve other than through eating huge amounts of sugar, so i stopped. are you taking it on an empty stomach?

the only other mushroom supplement I trust besides agaricus blazei and shiitake. I

why the only one you trust? there seems to be a large body of evidence for quite a few other mushrooms.. reishi, various coriolus preperations, etc

Edited by ajnast4r, 16 November 2010 - 08:23 PM.

[Alec]

I've been using mushroom science's cordyceps for 8 days now at 1600mg's per day. So far its been disappointing as many other people I know who have used cordyceps have said that they could really feel it working. So far I have not had any reaction even close to that.

at 1.5g/day, initially i felt a pretty strong increase in libido and mild anti-fatigue effects but after about a week it started to give me pretty bad hypoglycemia that i wasnt able to resolve other than through eating huge amounts of sugar, so i stopped. are you taking it on an empty stomach?

the only other mushroom supplement I trust besides agaricus blazei and shiitake. I

why the only one you trust? there seems to be a large body of evidence for quite a few other mushrooms.. reishi, various coriolus preperations, etc

They're the only ones that agreed with my stomach. If I were to choose between the two I'd go with agaricus because it's potent even at lower doses.

Edited by Alec, 16 November 2010 - 08:56 PM.

[Matt]

i was taking AHCC for about 6 months, really good stuff! =) There are a lot of studies in humans and animals to back it up too. I think its worth keeping some AHCC at home with you in case you get an infection or something. The results in animals for infections is quite remarkable, even for what are normally fatal infections, AHCC drastically improves survival, with some studies showing upto 100% survival for anthrax for example.

[Lovetolearn]

Double the dose

I would like to, but it's not economically viable as a bottle would only last 11 days.

at 1.5g/day, initially i felt a pretty strong increase in libido and mild anti-fatigue effects but after about a week it started to give me pretty bad hypoglycemia that i wasnt able to resolve other than through eating huge amounts of sugar, so i stopped. are you taking it on an empty stomach?

Yes taking on an empty stomach. 2 am, 2 pm..

[Lovetolearn]

I emailed Fungi Perfection about their extraction process. This pertains to the liquid extracts they sell, I do not believe their encapsulated products are extracts, just mycelium. Here is what they had to say about their process

Our extracts are extracted in hot water and alcohol both. Most of the active polysaccharides of mushrooms are soluble in water. When alcohol is added and becomes greater than 40+%, the water-soluble polysaccharides precipitate. Some of the active polysaccharides and their haptens are soluble in alcohol, but insoluble in water, as in the case of Agaricus brasiliensis (Kawagishi et al. 1988). Hence, mushroom products containing both the water and alcohol extracts possess active constituents which remain in solution, giving you the best of both worlds.

[ajnast4r]

after pretty exhaustive research i'm really convinced that mushroomscience/jhspro are the only extracts worth purchasing in the US. I've spent the past week reading through all the research on coriolus psp & psk, reishi & agaricus blazei and they are the only american company even coming close to adhering to the research as far as specifics go...extraction techniques, standardized actives & mushroom strains used, etc etc. mycopharma in europe seems good as well, but they dont have any american distributors. either way i'll be sticking with mushroom science until i can find anything better.

[antibambi]

after pretty exhaustive research i'm really convinced that mushroomscience/jhspro are the only extracts worth purchasing in the US. I've spent the past week reading through all the research on coriolus psp & psk, reishi & agaricus blazei and they are the only american company even coming close to adhering to the research as far as specifics go...extraction techniques, standardized actives & mushroom strains used, etc etc. mycopharma in europe seems good as well, but they dont have any american distributors. either way i'll be sticking with mushroom science until i can find anything better.

Even better than Fungi Perfecti? I know it's a ripoff, but I've always assumed their products were of high quality. Does Mushroom Science grow their own mushrooms, or are they sourced from somewhere else? I'm always worried, when taking any kind of herbal supplement, about heavy metal contamination, and that risk grows exponentially when the product is sourced from a place like India or China.

[ajnast4r]

Even better than Fungi Perfecti? I know it's a ripoff, but I've always assumed their products were of high quality. Does Mushroom Science grow their own mushrooms, or are they sourced from somewhere else? I'm always worried, when taking any kind of herbal supplement, about heavy metal contamination, and that risk grows exponentially when the product is sourced from a place like India or China.

fungi perfecti's pills arent an extract, just raw mycellium... which they present as being viable, which imo is unethical. as far as their liquid extracts, i think MS is better because they are standardized according to the research on each respective mushroom. i'm not sure if mushroom science grows or sources their mushrooms but that doesnt matter much as long as the necessary testing is done. my guess is they grow some and source some... their reishi is a proprietary strain they developed but their maitake is sourced from japan.

Edited by ajnast4r, 23 November 2010 - 02:34 AM.

[Logan]

Rainbowlight has a mushroom blend called mushroom therapy. They claim to use(or the people they bought them from use) a steam process with the mushrooms that ensures superior delivery of nutrients. I just emailed Rainbowlight, I want to find out more about this steam process. I wonder if any other producer of medicinal mushrooms uses this steam process, I'm assuming there are a few.

[nito]

after pretty exhaustive research i'm really convinced that mushroomscience/jhspro are the only extracts worth purchasing in the US. I've spent the past week reading through all the research on coriolus psp & psk, reishi & agaricus blazei and they are the only american company even coming close to adhering to the research as far as specifics go...extraction techniques, standardized actives & mushroom strains used, etc etc. mycopharma in europe seems good as well, but they dont have any american distributors. either way i'll be sticking with mushroom science until i can find anything better.

How long would you say you need to take mushroom science brand for to really gain the full benefits? 3 months, 6 months, perhaps 9 months?

[ajnast4r]

Rainbowlight has a mushroom blend called mushroom therapy. They claim to use(or the people they bought them from use) a steam process with the mushrooms that ensures superior delivery of nutrients. I just emailed Rainbowlight, I want to find out more about this steam process. I wonder if any other producer of medicinal mushrooms uses this steam process, I'm assuming there are a few.

steaming may break apart the chitinous cell walls but would still leave very low concentrations of betaglucan...

most extracts are to the tune of 20:1, so in say a 500mg pill you're getting the betaglucan concentration of 10 grams of mycellium

How long would you say you need to take mushroom science brand for to really gain the full benefits? 3 months, 6 months, perhaps 9 months?

depends on what 'benefits' youre looking for... i felt improvement in my asthma in around 2 weeks. changes in immune function happen fairly quickly. TCM says the certain mushrooms have to/should be taken long term for the real benefits... I plan on cycling reishi, I'm just not sure how yet. probably something along the lines of 3-6 months on 1 month off.

Edited by ajnast4r, 23 November 2010 - 11:31 PM.

[Adaptogen]

if the triterpenes are lipid soluble, is there any way to extract them besides using alcohol? Is just chewing and consuming out of the question? also, how long should i allow a reishi tincture to sit before i can assume it's probably extracted?

[newguy5]

Has anyone ever tried the reishi from

 

http://www.myconutri.com/reishi/

 

Do you think it's a good one?

[acycooly]

the company that is increasingly recognized as producing the best reishi is actualy based in Japan, " Hokkaido reishi ",

I've been using it for a while now and I don't regret it...although their products are more expensive the quality and the service is there. 

higly recommended