8 replies to this topic

[thefreeaccount]

Anyone tried intranasal administration of insulin w/ultrasonic nebulizer? Any thoughts on safety/techniques?

[chrono]

Thanks for posting this. I read a bit about it when I was first researching CRB, but then it completely slipped my mind. Sounds pretty promising.

In brief, insulin injected peripherally can't cross the BBB. As a peptide, it can be delivered through the nose, if administered on or close to the olfactory epithelium. Entry into the brain takes 10-15 minutes, via some poorly-elucidated perineural channel, or perhaps the trigeminal neural pathway.

A few studies have used those electronic atomizers. This study used a syringe:

Intranasal insulin administration dose-dependently modulates verbal memory and plasma amyloid-beta in memory-impaired older adults.

Fasting subjects came on five separate mornings, one to six weeks apart, to receive saline or one of four insulin doses (10, 20, 40, or 60 IU) in randomized counterbalanced order. An initial blood sample was obtained and subjects were placed in a supine position with the head tilted back. One-hundred μL of insulin (Novolin R, Novo Nordisk, Princeton, NJ, USA) or saline were administered with a needle-less syringe into alternating nostrils for a total volume of 600μL at each visit. One-hundred μL of insulin corresponded to 10 IU; saline was administered as needed at insulin visits to achieve the total study drug volume of 600 μL. Subjects were instructed to sniff following administration to facilitate transport of insulin into the nasal cavity. Subjects rested for 15-minutes.

Sounds pretty doable. They squirted 0.1mL (10 IU) of undiluted U-100 Novolin R into each nostril until they reached the target dose. This could also be done with a good nasal spray bottle (which would probably deliver 0.05mL/5 IU per squirt).

Though I'm still curious about the nubulizer route, for this as well as other peptides. Do we know of any products widely available, or is it an esoteric medical device?

I'll dig into the safety and dosage info a little better when I'm not on my way to bed.

Edited by chrono, 19 July 2010 - 06:58 AM.

[NR2(x)]

Why not intranasal insulin growth factors rather than insulin? I havent really thought it through but sounds more interesting. Maybe add some other peptides, even erythropoietin, orexins.

Edited by NR2(x), 19 July 2010 - 12:46 PM.

[christianbber]

I just got to thinking about a popular hormone in the body and how it effects cognitive function.

What got me to this question starts with a little background.

I'm coming off a pre contest diet....... dieted for 10+ weeks and got down to < 10%bf.
I'm on week 4 of the post contest diet and my insulin levels are very very sensitive. One piece of candy and I'm stuffing my face the whole day.

Now, during these times of " high insulin" dumping that occurs after a large carbohydrate meal, my cognitive ability seems to be effected in a way that i can't really seem to concentrate very well.

I find it hard to hold a complete thought. Accurately described as " scatter brain".

Now I'm about to embark on some research on insulin and cognitive ability however I'd like to hear from those who have some knowledge pertaining tot his subject.

Thanks !

[NR2(x)]

Thanks for the interesting subjective. You hypothesis may well be correct . There is a large body of evidence published that intranasal insulin improves cognitive outcomes in alzheimers disease, on such metrics as short term memory. I believe that short term memmory and concentration are positively collerated, therefore i would expect central insulin to improve concentration.

At a guess i would assume that lots of heavy carbos would cause a heavy insulin spike that would depress glucose levels in the blood significantly, while leaving significant carbs avialable for muscles and body organs. As the brain derives almost all energy in the short term from glucose this would cause decreased energy output. It is well established that ADD is the result of decficit metabolism in central regions of the brain and that stimulant rectify this problem through increased dopamine. Hence carbos are causing a tranisent ADD. Wheather the dieting caused or highlighted this effect I dont not know.

[Temp]

I just got to thinking about a popular hormone in the body and how it effects cognitive function.

What got me to this question starts with a little background.

I'm coming off a pre contest diet....... dieted for 10+ weeks and got down to < 10%bf.
I'm on week 4 of the post contest diet and my insulin levels are very very sensitive. One piece of candy and I'm stuffing my face the whole day.

Now, during these times of " high insulin" dumping that occurs after a large carbohydrate meal, my cognitive ability seems to be effected in a way that i can't really seem to concentrate very well.

I find it hard to hold a complete thought. Accurately described as " scatter brain".

Now I'm about to embark on some research on insulin and cognitive ability however I'd like to hear from those who have some knowledge pertaining tot his subject.

Thanks !

Honestly from all the "stuff" that is posted here for people to try I think the most dangerous of them all is Insulin. I would not artificially fck around with your insulin levels.

If you want to level off your insulin then take some chromium picolonate.

Edited by Temp, 03 September 2010 - 10:20 PM.

[chrono]

Just moved the discussion of glucose/metabolism and ADD to its own thread (because it deserves it ), and merged the two recent insulin threads in the interest of reducing fragmentation.

Honestly from all the "stuff" that is posted here for people to try I think the most dangerous of them all is Insulin. I would not artificially fck around with your insulin levels.

Indeed not! Increasing systemic insulin will not raise brain insulin significantly, but the resulting drop in glucose will deprive the brain of one of its cognitive fuels, and make you slower.

However, intranasal insulin goes directly to the brain, and does not raise peripheral levels of insulin. It's also been shown to have cognitive benefits in humans. I finished reviewing the literature a few days ago, and will post a summary some time this weekend.

[NR2(x)]

Thanks Crono,

I often feel that people are way to conservative, so decided I would guinea pig this one.
Proceedure.
5ui of ester free insulin shot up the nose with 250microL of water. Followed proceedure for 4 days in the morning before a run.

Subjective Effect.
Acute
No change in Mind set, but perhaps(weak) greater memory and intergration of ideas.
Strong neurogenic feeling lasting from hour 2-3 for extended period

Following days much the same, neurogenic effect more prounced, increased metabolism.
I would assume a moderate increase in some cognitive domains, little downsides so far.
Have not smoked tabacco from day 1 which is highly unusually and possiably causal(but confounds an observed effect)

No withdrawl noticed;

In summary this substance may have really potential if used for extended periods. I am hesitant as causing insulin insentistivity in the brain would have dire consequence although it would improve quickly with time. Seriously considering trialing for a month

A mucolytic agent, N-acetyl-L-cysteine was also found to promote the nasal absorption of hGH in this model, with relative bioavailabilities of 12.2%.

Edited by NR2(x), 11 September 2010 - 08:47 AM.

[chrono]

^^ Very cool. Based on my research I would very much like to give this a try as well, but I don't have enough money atm (being in the US, I think my best option is Canadian pharmacies that don't require a script, and the prices looked pretty steep).

But 5IU (total?) is a very small dose. The human intranasal studies have used anywhere from 10-60 for an acute dose, and 3 long-term (~8 week) ones have used 4x40IU/day. 20 and 40IU seems to be the most common, but there was a suggestion that 40IU was not necessarily better than 20IU. Should have time tomorrow to write up a quick summary of the cognitive studies.

Also wondering what you mean by "neurogenic feeling" and "increased metabolism," since you also said you didn't notice anything subjective.

While the abstracts I've seen state that there were no adverse effects or safety concerns, I would also want to think about the long-term consequences like possible resistance if I was going to use this anything like long-term.

Edited by chrono, 11 September 2010 - 04:40 PM.