40 replies to this topic

[MrSpud]

People selling it are describing it as a super arginine that acts as a neurotransmitter with various effects ranging from pain reduction to Nitric oxide production to neurotransmitter release, antioxidant, antianxiety etc...

So, has anyone tried it? Did it do anything useful?

[425runner]

Yes, I did and it was quite an interesting substance. I had a herniated disc and supposedly agmatine reduces pain, among other things. It made me very calm and relaxed, not groggy but positive. Would buy more but it's so darn expensive. More research needs to be done to find out if it has any nootropic effects.

People selling it are describing it as a super arginine that acts as a neurotransmitter with various effects ranging from pain reduction to Nitric oxide production to neurotransmitter release, antioxidant, antianxiety etc...

So, has anyone tried it? Did it do anything useful?

Edited by chrono, 18 August 2010 - 01:09 AM.
fixed quote tag

[chrono]

Yes, I did and it was quite an interesting substance. I had a herniated disc and supposedly agmatine reduces pain, among other things. It made me very calm and relaxed, not groggy but positive. Would buy more but it's so darn expensive.

I'm very interested in the possible effect on pain. Did you actually notice any analgesia from it? What doses were you taking?

[425runner]

I was taking 1/4 teaspoon, not sure how much is that. Bought it at NutraPlanet and their serving sizes on the label are not very accurate and the scoop inside was tiny. It's not like Tramadol or Oxy but I found that I didn't need as much pain killer when I took it in the morning and when taken at night, it basically calmed me down in a very positive way and I was able to focus on something else besides the back pain.

I did a brief research on Agmatine through Science Direct but nothing conclusive in terms of its nootropic effects.

[chrono]

Here's a brief overview of the cognitive effects of agmatine that I've found so far (my paraphrasing).

Cognition

Hippocampus. 2008;18(9):853-6.
Effects of aging on agmatine levels in memory-associated brain structures.
Compared to young and middle-aged rats, aged rats had diminished agmatine levels in the CA1 and prefrontal cortex, and increased levels in CA2/3, dentate gyrus, and the entorhinal, perirhinal, postrhinal and temporal cortices.


Hippocampus. 2008;18(11):1094-8.
Spatial learning results in elevated agmatine levels in the rat brain.
Elevated levels of endogenous agmatine found in HIPP CA1 and dentate gyrus, entorhinal cortex, and vestibular nucleus of rats after spatial learning tasks.


Neuroscience. 2009 Mar 31;159(3):951-61.
Differential effects of i.c.v. microinfusion of agmatine on spatial working and reference memory in the rat.
Both 10ug and 100ug icv rats performed better in the working memory water maze test. 100ug rats displayed decreased exploratory and locomotor activity in open field


Hippocampus. 2009 Jul;19(7):597-602.
Memory-related changes in L-citrulline and agmatine in the rat brain.
Rats trained on spatial memory tasks displayed increased endogenous agmatine in prefrontal, entorhinal, and perirhinal cortices; significant positive correlation between levels and T-maze performance.


Synapse. 2010 Jun 22. [Epub ahead of print]
Spatial learning-induced increase in agmatine levels at hippocampal CA1 synapses.
Spatial training tasks produce an 85% increase in synaptic agmatine levels in the stratum radiatum (strong evidence that it acts as a neurotransmitter in learning and memory)

Behavioral Learning

Behav Pharmacol. 2000 Feb;11(1):93-7.
Acquisition deficit and time-dependent retrograde amnesia for contextual fear conditioning in agmatine-treated rats.
5-10mg/kg ip impaired the acquisition of contextual fear memory (dependent upon NMDA modulation in hipp)


Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2002 Jun;72(3):551-7.
Learning and memory in agmatine-treated rats.
Dose-dependently inhibited acquisition of contextual (but not auditory) fear response. Also abolished learned taste aversions. No effect on Morris water maze performance.


Neurobiol Learn Mem. 2002 Sep;78(2):465-9.
Agmatine facilitates memory of an inhibitory avoidance task in adult rats.
Post-training injection improved memory consolidation in inhibitory avoidance task; pre-training dosing had no effect. Effect perhaps mediated through activation of locus coeruleus.


Life Sci. 2003 Apr 18;72(22):2489-98.
Combined effects of complex magnetic fields and agmatine for contextual fear learning deficits in rats.
Dose-dependently ameliorated magnitude of contextual conditioned fear response


Behav Neurosci. 2008 Jun;122(3):557-69.
Behavioral effects of intracerebroventricular microinfusion of agmatine in adult rats.
Low-dose (10ug icv) rats performed better than control in elevated plus maze, water maze, object recognition, and working-memory radial arm tests; high-dose (100ug icv) rats performed worse.


Neuroscience. 2009 Sep 29;163(1):82-96.
Behavioral effects of agmatine in naive rats are task- and delay-dependent.
40mg/kg ip improved performance in delayed (i.e. re-tested after hours or days) water maze, open field, place navigation, working memory water maze, displaced object and T-maze tasks. Also reduced anxiety in open field tests ("facilitates memory particularly when the task difficulty is increased due to memory trace decay and/or greater interference."

It looks like this NMDA antagonist might not impart the same cognitive difficulties as memantine—perhaps because it is itself a neurotransmitter involved in certain types of learning and memory, and also more selective. So far, this seems like it has a lot of promise. I'll add more about the pk/pd when I have time to go through more papers.

Edited by chrono, 17 August 2010 - 05:45 PM.

[medievil]

Someone needs to up the max points you can give a day, now some really great posts like yours chrono get unrewarded.

[OneScrewLoose]

Would this give the same viral-boosting effects that arginine can give? I got a real bad cold after taking arginine.

[Dirk_Diggler]

I have heard very little about this supplement, but it looks very promising as a nootropic. It's pretty well-known in the bodybuilding community (maybe Boolean can offer some advice here) and only recently has been touted as a nootropic.

I'm going to skip the bodybuilding aspects of this, and get straight to the possible nootropic effects.

I've read that Agmatine is neuroprotective by preventing over-excitation of glutamate. It has been said that it's also an antioxidant.

But I don't know much about it, and couldn't find much about it either (in respect to the nootropic effects).

Has anyone used this or know more about this supplement?

[MrHappy]

Everything I've read on it so far seems to indicate it as counter-productive. I also wouldn't go near it if you have HSV-1 / 2.

[chrono]

Merged with the agmatine thread (a search, or at least CTRL+F on the thread index, is suggested before starting a new thread asking if anyone's heard of a noot ).

I haven't had a chance to try this yet...at last pricing it was about $1 a dose, which places it kinda far down on my list. Would also be curious to hear any actual experiences, if there have been any in the past year.

Everything I've read on it so far seems to indicate it as counter-productive. I also wouldn't go near it if you have HSV-1 / 2.

Can you be more specific about where you heard it was counter-productive? The research summary I posted above makes it sound somewhat promising...though even better-sounding supps have temporarily turned my memory into that of a 70-year-old, so it doesn't necessarily mean that much.

[MrHappy]

I was trawling through google and found various discussions and links that were talking about increased NOS production and issues with NMDA. Further searching however, shows conflicting opinions:

This link has many papers on it -
http://www.neurotran.../neardeath.html

http://79.125.109.44...on-6673599.html

http://www.scielo.or...ipt=sci_arttext

It appears to be useful for pain management and appears to inhibit MPTP induced apoptosis. It has mild MAO-I properties, also.

[dear mrclock]

this is about year old thread. im replying here to bump it up because im curious about this as supplement. since then, any new information on it either good or bad ?? if anyone has tried it or has info please add tnx !

[FunkOdyssey]

There are some suggestions to use choline, ALCAR and etc in this thread for depression. That may not be wise:

The Role of Acetylcholine Mechanisms in Affective Disorders

[UniQuell]

Agmatine is an absolutely incredible supplement in my opinion. I've noticed greatly improved mood and ability to cope with stress. It also reduced jitteriness with too much caffeine. It has so many potential benefits from protecting brain cells from glutamate toxicity to improving endothelial nitric oxide production by downregulating neuronal nitric oxide. The only down side is the cost but really it is great stuff.

[Ukko]

Agmatine is an absolutely incredible supplement in my opinion. I've noticed greatly improved mood and ability to cope with stress. It also reduced jitteriness with too much caffeine. It has so many potential benefits from protecting brain cells from glutamate toxicity to improving endothelial nitric oxide production by downregulating neuronal nitric oxide. The only down side is the cost but really it is great stuff.

Taking it as well. Indeed an interesting supplement. What is your daily dose? Mine is 1000mg.

[UniQuell]

I've taken between 800 and 1000mg aa day and I haven't stopped since I started. Endlessly impressed by this stuff.

[brainslugged]

Would buy more but it's so darn expensive.

Just want to add, for those who want a cheap source,

http://www.dpsnutrit...CFUlp7AodHDcADg

100g for $30

I plan to start on it soon. It could also reduce amphetamine tolerance/toxicity/anxiety by acting on the NMDA, Ca, neuronal NO pathway.

[gerass]

Im taking 1000mg and it definitely gave me a great effect on so many levels.

[xks201]

I love this crap.

[UniQuell]

Would buy more but it's so darn expensive.

Just want to add, for those who want a cheap source,

http://www.dpsnutrit...CFUlp7AodHDcADg

100g for $30

I plan to start on it soon. It could also reduce amphetamine tolerance/toxicity/anxiety by acting on the NMDA, Ca, neuronal NO pathway.

I'm glad to see other people having just as incredible experiences with this stuff.

Unfortunately that one is out of stock. Maybe no longer stocked? I looked high and low for this stuff in amounts over 30 grams without luck.


In the meantime this is a pretty good deal, though not quite as good: http://www.dpsnutrit...tine-powder.htm

[brainslugged]

I would be interested to know exactly what is so great about it 0_0

I didn't know this many people liked it so much.

I'm glad to see other people having just as incredible experiences with this stuff.

Unfortunately that one is out of stock. Maybe no longer stocked? I looked high and low for this stuff in amounts over 30 grams without luck.


In the meantime this is a pretty good deal, though not quite as good: http://www.dpsnutrit...tine-powder.htm

Hmm.. I would bet they are just out of stock. I ordered it just like a month ago. So, if you have time to wait, I would bet they will get it back in soon.

[lammas2]

Agmatine sucks for me. After a few days, huge brain fog appears and I don't know if this is the correct term, but I feel depersonalized - like a total zombie. Life happens but I have no part in it, it's like I live in someone else's body without having any control. After abstaining a few days I return to normal and feel more 'in the moment'.

Edited by lammas2, 05 September 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[AlwaysLearning]

Agmatine sucks for me. After a few days, huge brain fog appears and I don't know if this is the correct term, but I feel depersonalized - like a total zombie. Life happens but I have no part in it, it's like I live in someone else's body without having any control. After abstaining a few days I return to normal and feel more 'in the moment'.

What dosage?

[Ultravioletbllc]

EASILY IN THE TOP 5 :
Best Nootropics Ive ever Used......Never leaving my stack........Pain Management, anti anxiety, novel calcium channel Blocker,nmda antagonist ,Neurotransmission benefits, NOS Regulator, Opiate Potentiation , Marijuana or CBD Potentiation , also known as "clonidine displacing substance"

Oh Nevermind the fact that it quite literally releases the LARGEST amount of B-endorphins that any substance im in the know of can illicit

[Jeoshua]

The only downside of Agmatine that I know of, through personal experience, is the price. Being generally marketed as a workout supplement that increases NOS (which a moderate amount of research will easilly show that it does not ACTUALLY do), that leads to high prices and needing to buy it from a place like GNC which marks everything up excessively.

[Ultravioletbllc]

buy it as a bulk powder....I agree it is confusing when and where I first saw it sold I def thought it was Pro Nos....not a "gate limiter" per se.......

[Cade]

Just placed an order for this on amazon.

Are you guys taking ~1 gram first thing in the morning on an empty stomach?

Or is this something that needs to be taken with fat, after breakfast? Thanks

[Neal Cullum]

Hmmm i'm interest in this Agmatine. I have 25g of it sat in my drawer and i bought it because i heard it was good for pre-workout. max i've taken is 300mg and haven't noticed much so tomorrow i'm going to try 1g on an empty stomach and see if i notice any differences.

[Jeoshua]

Are you guys taking ~1 gram first thing in the morning on an empty stomach?
Or is this something that needs to be taken with fat, after breakfast? Thanks

Label says to take with food.

Then again, label also says it increases Nitric Oxide production, which is most certainly does not.

[Potent]

For those who have used Agmatine over a significant period of time - have you noticed any adverse effects?

I am concerned about the potential for amnesia, due to NMDA receptor antagonism: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9918557
and potentially nNOS inhibition: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11125020

I have currently stacked for the first time today:
1. Moda: 400 mg (Tolerance)
2. Luteolin: 50 mg
3. Agmatine: 200 mg

To no ill effect... except for a slight mood drop / depression (confounding variables) a few hours after dosing Luteolin and Agmatine. I'm wondering if this has to do with the half life of Luteolin, but I can't be sure.

Agmatine has been excellent for mitigating the anxiogenic effects of Modafinil. Usually Moda makes reading comprehension difficult. This was relieved by Agmatine.
I am just concerned about potential amnesia.

Edited by Potent, 21 March 2014 - 10:58 PM.