53 replies to this topic

[Soma]

I was just wondering if anyone might know some ways to enhance collagen production with supplements. I have gone for scar repair treatments on numerous occasions and each time has failed to produce any effect whatsoever. What is interesting is that two different doctors each told me that they suspected that I didn't produce enough collagen needed to remodel the scars. Normally the revision procedure would produce a "controlled wound" which the body would heal and produce new collagen. Ideally, this new collagen reorients the scar tissue or fills in atrophic areas. This didn't happen at all with me and this was the reason that I was given. I don't know if this is true or whether it made for a convenient excuse for the failure of their high-cost treatments.

From my research, these nutrients may encourage the endogenous production of dermal collagen:

OPCs (grape seed extract and pycnogenol)
Orthosilicic Acid
L-lysine, L-proline
Vit C

If you know of any others and wold post them, it would be appreciated.
Thanks

[aLurker]

Omega3

[rwac]

Take a look at this thread on M&M.

http://www.mindandmu...showtopic=42632

Are you getting getting enough nutrition ?

[caston]

Very interesting. How about covering the wound with organic honey to help remove or prevent any infection?

[Soma]

Omega3

That's interesting. The study only mentions collagen production in terms of ligature (MCL) but it is the same type of collagen (Type I) that comprises dermal tissue as well. I have been taking 3 grams of Omega 3 fish oils for years and I haven't noticed anything.

[Soma]

Very interesting. How about covering the wound with organic honey to help remove or prevent any infection?

Interesting you should mention honey. After one of my scar revisions, I applied a very high UMF manuka honey to the areas as it healed. This is supposedly supposed to prevent new scarring from forming as well as help heal old scarring. I didn't notice any changes.

[Soma]

Are you getting getting enough nutrition ?

This is the billion dollar question. I am very careful about how I eat and I believe that I am ingesting enough nutrient dense foods, but I can't say as though I know how my body is digesting/assimilating them.

There are just so many variables.

[tunt01]

zinc is pretty important in collagen production. maybe also hyaluronic acid. it's been discussed in a few other threads, i think lufega had a nice one going on it.

[rwac]

This is the billion dollar question. I am very careful about how I eat and I believe that I am ingesting enough nutrient dense foods, but I can't say as though I know how my body is digesting/assimilating them.

So what's your diet like ?

[Soma]

So what's your diet like ?

It's a rather well rounded diet I think.

I usually make smoothies in the morning with wild blueberries and other low-sugar fruit in a base of tea. I eat small amounts of fish, no red meat. I eat a lot of vegetables, very little grains (mostly sprouted when eaten).

[rwac]

I usually make smoothies in the morning with wild blueberries and other low-sugar fruit in a base of tea. I eat small amounts of fish, no red meat. I eat a lot of vegetables, very little grains (mostly sprouted when eaten).

Sounds like you need more meat, or at least more protein.

[Soma]

Sounds like you need more meat, or at least more protein.

I was taking whey protein a while back I should probably start that again.

[Forever21]

So we have no clear solution on this? Is our best hope collagen fillers?

[happy lemon]

How do we know that the amount of collagen is increasing? By judging if our cheeks get plump? Any tools to measure it?

[niner]

So we have no clear solution on this? Is our best hope collagen fillers?

Sometimes that might be the only option, but I think there's a lot more that can be done. There's all the topical stuff- retinoids, exfoliants, IR radiation, needling, vitamin C, etc etc. These things will induce some amount of collagen production. I've been impressed with Juvess, to mention the sponsor of this forum, and also with BioSil. More recently I've been using JarrowSil as a lower-cost alternative. It seems like having sufficient levels of all the raw materials needed for collagen formation would have to be better than a deficiency in any of them. I suppose that's what the silicon supplements are doing; ensuring silicon sufficiency. You wouldn't want to have a short supply of any of the amino acids needed for making collagen; it's unusual compared to other proteins, containing a lot of pro and hydroxy-pro. Eat gelatin, which is hydrolyzed collagen. It's known to support collagen production.

[chris w]

So we have no clear solution on this? Is our best hope collagen fillers?

Eat gelatin, which is hydrolyzed collagen. It's known to support collagen production.

Mmmmmh, marshmallows and gummy bears for the sake of beauty.

[Forever21]

So we have no clear solution on this? Is our best hope collagen fillers?

Sometimes that might be the only option, but I think there's a lot more that can be done. There's all the topical stuff- retinoids, exfoliants, IR radiation, needling, vitamin C, etc etc. These things will induce some amount of collagen production. I've been impressed with Juvess, to mention the sponsor of this forum, and also with BioSil. More recently I've been using JarrowSil as a lower-cost alternative. It seems like having sufficient levels of all the raw materials needed for collagen formation would have to be better than a deficiency in any of them. I suppose that's what the silicon supplements are doing; ensuring silicon sufficiency. You wouldn't want to have a short supply of any of the amino acids needed for making collagen; it's unusual compared to other proteins, containing a lot of pro and hydroxy-pro. Eat gelatin, which is hydrolyzed collagen. It's known to support collagen production.

if its not too much to ask, could you please list / link the ones in BOLD to the website you buy them from also what brand, etc

So we have no clear solution on this? Is our best hope collagen fillers?

Eat gelatin, which is hydrolyzed collagen. It's known to support collagen production.

seriously? sugar-free, calorie-free jello? so that's why Michael eats it

Edited by Forever21, 14 August 2010 - 07:01 PM.

[rwac]

So we have no clear solution on this? Is our best hope collagen fillers?

Eat gelatin, which is hydrolyzed collagen. It's known to support collagen production.

seriously? sugar-free, calorie-free jello? so that's why Michael eats it

It's not really calorie free. It's almost entirely protein. It's only labeled calorie free because it's not a complete protein.

Edited by rwac, 14 August 2010 - 07:30 PM.

[Forever21]

how much else "zero calorie" products out there actually have calories in it?

zero calorie drinks
canola oil spray
mustard
seasonings

[Forever21]

Sometimes that might be the only option, but I think there's a lot more that can be done. There's all the topical stuff- retinoids, exfoliants, IR radiation, needling, vitamin C, etc etc.

what are the best ways to get this?

retinoids - i use Tretinoin
exfoliants - how to do this? spa? products? what do you recommend?
ir radiation - how, what, where, etc?
needling - how, what, where? spa/salons?
vitamic c - topical. i use this DERMAE moisturizer. any good? what do you recommend?

[niner]

how much else "zero calorie" products out there actually have calories in it?

zero calorie drinks -should be zero.
canola oil spray -about 9 Cal/gram, just like other fats & oils
mustard -has a little fat; 3 Cal/tsp. Source
seasonings -a few may have a tiny amount, not usually significant.

Edited by niner, 06 October 2010 - 01:57 PM.
fix quotes

[Forever21]

what products from Juvess is good for collagen production?

[Grame Fernandez]

Its really interesting..............

[cherrysilver]

ir radiation - how, what, where, etc?

I think Niner (correct me if I'm wrong) is talking about far infrared ray therapy here. It's typically used in saunas, mats and pads to heat up your skin/body and stimulate microcirculation/detox without super heating the air (as in the case of a traditional sauna). I have one of these saunas myself and it works great. Just google it for more info.

[Chaos Theory]

Modulation of Skin Collagen Metabolism in Aged and Photoaged Human Skin In Vivo

Abstract
To the best of our knowledge, no study has been conducted to date to directly compare the collagen metabolism of photoaged and naturally aged human skin. In this study, we compared collagen synthesis, matrix metalloproteinase-1 levels, and gelatinase activity of sun-exposed and sun-protected skin of both young and old subjects. Using northern blot analysis, immunohistochemical stain, and Western blot analysis, we demonstrated that the levels of procollagen type I mRNA and protein in photoaged and naturally aged human skin in vivo are significantly lower than those of young skin. Furthermore, we demonstrated, by northern blot analysis, that the procollagen 1(I) mRNA expression of photoaged skin is much greater than that of sun-protected skin in the same individual. In situ hybridization and immunohistochemical stain were used to show that the expression of type I procollagen mRNA and protein in the fibroblasts of photoaged skin is greater than for naturally aged skin. In addition, it was found, by Western blot analysis using protein extracted from the dermal tissues, that the level of procollagen type I protein in photoaged skin is lower than that of naturally aged skin. The level of matrix metalloproteinase-1 protein and the activity of matrix metalloproteinase-2 were higher in the dermis of photoaged skin than in naturally aged skin. Our results suggest that the natural aging process decreases collagen synthesis and increases the expression of matrix metalloproteinases, whereas photoaging results in an increase of collagen synthesis and greater matrix metalloproteinase expression in human skin in vivo. Thus, the balance between collagen synthesis and degradation leading to collagen deficiency is different in photoaged and naturally aged skin.

If I recall, don't retinoids reduce MMP activity? They are well known to reverse sun damage. If that is the case, maybe a retinoid and controlled amounts of UV could result in a net increase of collagen production.

[Forever21]

Sounds interesting. Could somebody please translate in layman language?

[leha]

In answer to the original question: Alpha-Lipoic Acid:

PubMed article

Better taken in very small doses, on an empty stomach, several times a day (totaling 200-400 mg per day), due to rapid metabolism and excretion, and because otherwise it might give you a tummy ache.

Also, if you are avoiding the sun, wearing sun protection, etc., don't forget to get enough vitamin D3, obviously.

[JLL]

If I recall, don't retinoids reduce MMP activity? They are well known to reverse sun damage. If that is the case, maybe a retinoid and controlled amounts of UV could result in a net increase of collagen production.

They seem to reduce the activity of some (MMP-9, MMP-1) and increase some (MMP-2). The combination of UV + retinoids may be better than nothing, but since retinoids increase collagen production even without UV, is it better than retinoids alone?

[Soma]

In answer to the original question: Alpha-Lipoic Acid:

PubMed article

Better taken in very small doses, on an empty stomach, several times a day (totaling 200-400 mg per day), due to rapid metabolism and excretion, and because otherwise it might give you a tummy ache.

I wonder whether the study is talking about topical or supplemental ALA.

[leha]

Good question, and I don't know the answer...