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Re-evaluation of the Bjelakovic AOX Meta Anaylsis


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#1 markymark

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:15 AM


This might be a bit braggy, but is still the truth ;-). In August 2007 I wrote to JAMA and informed them, that Bjelakovic et al. used false numbers (they took wrong mortality data out of the Brown study NEJM 2001) in their meta-analysis. There were more mistakes in their meta anlysis than this one.
However, Bjelakovic et al. had to publish a large erratum some months later, but still cochrane bought the whole story. We all know that the old-school AOX (C, E, Selenium, ...) will not do the trick (life extension and health improvement) alone, but the Bjelakovic/Gluud papers were sooo bad and unscientiffic, that I am very happy having come across this two days ago:

http://www.nutraingr...sis-re-analysis

The re-analysis is free to access. Scoll down the above website at nutraingredients to get the link. I do not know how to upload pdfs to ImmInst.....
'hope ImmInst community will find this intersting.

MM

Edited by markymark, 05 September 2010 - 10:17 AM.


#2 markymark

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:11 AM

Not a big success, my first try as thread starter ;-(.
Hm, find attached the PDF of the paper in question:

Attached Files



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#3 outsider

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 09:02 AM

"Over 400 clinical trials were excluded from the analysis because no deaths were reported."

I don't take much of isolated vitamin in general but this meta analysis sure didn't look serious.


Right now what I believe is useful is vitamin D (which is not a vitamin but a hormone) and magnesium which looks like the most depleted/out of balance mineral in occident.

Edited by outsider, 07 September 2010 - 09:30 AM.


#4 markymark

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:47 AM

"Over 400 clinical trials were excluded from the analysis because no deaths were reported."

I don't take much of isolated vitamin in general but this meta analysis sure didn't look serious.


Right now what I believe is useful is vitamin D (which is not a vitamin but a hormone) and magnesium which looks like the most depleted/out of balance mineral in occident.



Hello Outsider,

You are right about vitamin D and Magnesium.
However, the antioxidant-(AOX)-story I refer to is an ongoing debate in the mass media, in sciences, and in the world of micronutrient retailers and producers....
The Bjelakovic meta-analysis (PMID: 173275269) made huge headlines back in 2007 around the world and you easily identified only one of the many big mistakes and distortions they made.

In 2005 the so called "Miller-Vitami E meta-analysis" was also highly controversial.

The assumption of experimenter bias of the Bjelakovic/Gluud Group is IMO not too far-fetched, if we take into accout their simple errors (using false numbers) and their methods (you mentioned only one point, i. e. exclusion of trials without any deathts).

Therefore, I found it an interesting and positive thing that some authors took on to re-analyse the Bjelakovic data from a more realistic angle, in contrast to the armchair-science Bjelakovic et al. are doing. You will find some very good criticisms about Bjelekovic et al. as well on the web.

MM

#5 kismet

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:52 PM

The Bjelakovic meta-analysis (PMID: 173275269) made huge headlines back in 2007 around the world and you easily identified only one of the many big mistakes and distortions they made.

He did not. Meta-analysis of mortality data whether as a primary or secondary endpoint is legitimate. Whether it is sufficient to arrive at a strong conclusion is an entirely different matter.

It's great for the scientific process if you point out mistakes in that particular meta-analysis, but what about the rest? Individual authors consistently found a null/detrimental effect of vit E on mortality.
Meta-analyses have also been performed on the major endpoints of interest e.g. cancer incidence and mortality from all or some specific cancers; CVD surrogates and outcomes (though, I can't find a more recent meta-analysis than 2004 for anything but vitamin E and hard endpoints).
Individual, well-powered trials have failed to show a benefit; that's a failure even when you want to use a broader approach to causality like Hill's criteria. As per the posted study: two thirds of studies missed their primary outcome.*

(refs. at request)

The following arguments by the authors are problematic:
The argument that the studies failed to find an optimal dose only strengthens the broad consensus: antioxidants from dietary sources are fine (and extremely complex), but supplementation still fails to replicate diet.*
Esp. their argument that studies did not select patients marginal or deficient in those antioxidants is weak. It's tautological: <RDA levels are defined as those levels likely to be detrimental for some people. There is no need to fund many more studies on this topic.

The bigger issue is that those studies, even when optimistically interpreted, likely won't apply to us. No one denies that benefits are seen in certain subgroups(low baseline intakes, certain diseases, genotypes, etc). But healthy people, even more so life extensionists, will reach several RDAs of most nutrients and supplement those that they are lacking. The results are already disappointing in the general population, the effect on mortality is null/negative and long term effects are unknown. Therefore it is a recipe for disaster to recommend high-dose "shotgun" supplementation of antioxidants to healthy folks.

(better not start me on pooling data from heterogeneous populations with heterogeneous diseases using heterogeneous antioxidants. I don't get the point. For one thing, different primary endpoints are *not* equivalent because there are only a few major killers for healthy people..)

Do you suggest overwhelming incompetence on the part of thousands of authors, a conspiracy or something else? It would be great if you could explain your position more clearly. Which exogenous antioxidants, at which dose, for whom (etc) based on what evidence do you consider necessary?

*the use of Hill's criteria and an (albeit indirect) comparison of supplemental and dietary antiox. can be found in Mente et al. "A Systematic Review of the Evidence Supporting a Causal Link Between Dietary Factors and Coronary Heart Disease"

Edited by kismet, 08 September 2010 - 02:59 PM.


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#6 outsider

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:26 AM

Well we could embark on a lengthy discussion but it's clear that there are bias in this world. But you have to think for yourself to see this.

I don't really believe in high dose/longterm vitamin anyway but if Viox was accepted for sale then some vitamin taken the right way could be useful for some people.




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