12 replies to this topic

[Neuronic]

After a couple months of taking 6mg GHB per night, I starting finding that when I took it I would have a strange tingling sensation shoot down my arms to my finger tips when I stretched them out. It wasn't painful, felt like I stretched the nerve or something. Well slowly that sensation happens far easier and the last week I have noticed feeling the sensation during the day when I haven't taken the stuff yet!

But to make it worse about a month ago I started getting nerve problems in my legs. X-rays show no bad lumbar discs, so it is more likely piriformis syndrome. I think I have had trouble with this before but not nearly as bad.
The only thing that really kills the pain is... GHB. I found phenibut helps considerably too.
I have been taking GHB for about 5 months now.

So my question is if GHB can cause sensitive or damaged nerves?

If it's withdrawal, does withdrawal start immediately after the GHB dose wears off?

Edited by Neuronic, 16 December 2010 - 03:34 PM.

[Delta Gamma]

GHB kills nerve cells via oxidative stress due to agonisim of the GHB receptor, google GHB neurotoxicity for more info. Interestingly, low doses of GHB are more toxic than high doses due to the differences in GABA agonisim.

If GABAgenics help easy your pain have you considered looking at pregabalin or gabapentin? They're actually approved for neuropathic pain, so its a easy to get script in your case. Is your GHB scripted?

[Neuronic]

GHB kills nerve cells via oxidative stress due to agonisim of the GHB receptor, google GHB neurotoxicity for more info. Interestingly, low doses of GHB are more toxic than high doses due to the differences in GABA agonisim.

If GABAgenics help easy your pain have you considered looking at pregabalin or gabapentin? They're actually approved for neuropathic pain, so its a easy to get script in your case. Is your GHB scripted?

Yes, it is scripted for narcolepsy.
So, is it likely Xyrem being the culprit?
I sure hope it's not permanent damage??

Unfortunately it's hard to talk to my Dr without a visit, I have to relay through 2 nurses who don't know what I am talking about.
I've read supplementing B vits help a lot, which I a supplement for a couple of days but I'm not sure about how B1 & B6 was in it, which are particularly effective for nerves.

[Delta Gamma]

GHB kills nerve cells via oxidative stress due to agonisim of the GHB receptor, google GHB neurotoxicity for more info. Interestingly, low doses of GHB are more toxic than high doses due to the differences in GABA agonisim.

If GABAgenics help easy your pain have you considered looking at pregabalin or gabapentin? They're actually approved for neuropathic pain, so its a easy to get script in your case. Is your GHB scripted?

Yes, it is scripted for narcolepsy.
So, is it likely Xyrem being the culprit?
I sure hope it's not permanent damage??

Unfortunately it's hard to talk to my Dr without a visit, I have to relay through 2 nurses who don't know what I am talking about.
I've read supplementing B vits help a lot, which I a supplement for a couple of days but I'm not sure about how B1 & B6 was in it, which are particularly effective for nerves.

I hope for your sake the damage is minimal, but to be safe if you plan on taking GHB at all for the next while try dosing up on some antioxidants.
Blueberries and decaf coffee are a great source of them, and supplement wise a full spectrum E vitamin and coenzyme Q10 (reduced form preferably) would be a good start. Melatonin would be a great one for this situation as it is a RIDICULOUSLY potent antioxidant that both crosses the BBB aids in sleep. Maybe some neurotrophic factors would be a good idea, but I don't know for sure.

Other than that I would suggest talking to your doctor about pregabalin or gabapentin, as they are both safer, aid in sleep, and may help with the nerve pain you're experiencing.

I have a cell biology/biochem background, so I don't believe I would be qualified to offer any sort of medical advice other than cellular mechanisms. But, definitely do some research and book a doctors appointment.

My only other question is, do you also take prescribed stimulants for your narcolepsy?

[Neuronic]

My only other question is, do you also take prescribed stimulants for your narcolepsy?

Yes, I take Adderall XR 20mg twice a day, several days only once. Also add in some modafinil 200mg some days.
I will say, the worst of this started after being on Adderall for a week and a half.

I had been noticing an increase in sensitivity to my nerves for a while before that though. While my joints don't seem swollen, the nerves feel swollen and/or far more sensitive to touch. The ulnar nerve for instance.

[Delta Gamma]

My only other question is, do you also take prescribed stimulants for your narcolepsy?

Yes, I take Adderall XR 20mg twice a day, several days only once. Also add in some modafinil 200mg some days.
I will say, the worst of this started after being on Adderall for a week and a half.

I had been noticing an increase in sensitivity to my nerves for a while before that though. While my joints don't seem swollen, the nerves feel swollen and/or far more sensitive to touch. The ulnar nerve for instance.

Adderall=amphetamine=oxidative stress, 40mg is in neurotoxic territory if you trust the Ricaurte study on higher primates. You likely exhausted your body's antioxidant mechanisms through use of both amphetamine and GHB, but I can't be certain. It seems like GHB and amphetamine are the culprits here, but there are a few other factors which could come into play such as smoking, excercise, sleep deprivation/quality, and diet.

The best advice I can give to you is load up on antioxidants, and talk to your doctor. Maybe switching to a less damaging sleep aid and stimulant (concerta at a high dose comes to mind, that or more modafinil) would help your body heal the damage.

[Neuronic]

Adderall=amphetamine=oxidative stress, 40mg is in neurotoxic territory if you trust the Ricaurte study on higher primates. You likely exhausted your body's antioxidant mechanisms through use of both amphetamine and GHB, but I can't be certain. It seems like GHB and amphetamine are the culprits here, but there are a few other factors which could come into play such as smoking, excercise, sleep deprivation/quality, and diet.

The best advice I can give to you is load up on antioxidants, and talk to your doctor. Maybe switching to a less damaging sleep aid and stimulant (concerta at a high dose comes to mind, that or more modafinil) would help your body heal the damage.

Damn,I knew I should have asked about this months ago when I first started wondering.
With my junk-food diet I wouldn't be surprised if I was low on antioxidants to begin with. But you add in the fact that I have been only eating about 2 meals a day because of having to keep an empty stomach for GHB...

Personally I was thinking about quitting GHB anyway. No doubt I love the buzz from it, but I personally think my sleep is worse on it than off it. Since I started I have occasionally done stuff that I don't remember doing, which scares me.
So should I quit cold turkey or taper the dosage?

I won't take Adderall for a while, I can go Pramiracetam + modafinil instead.
Also, I might take phenibut for the next couple of days to ensure I sleep longer. The stuff rocks until I fall asleep, then I'm in a fog for 2 days. Bright side is that if I'm not working that day I will sleep a very long time.

[John Barleycorn]

Before you go off speculating about physical damage, bear in mind that lots of substances can cause akathisia, either as part of the effect or as part of the withdrawal. It seems to be common with dopaminergics that are taken chronically.

[Neuronic]

Before you go off speculating about physical damage, bear in mind that lots of substances can cause akathisia, either as part of the effect or as part of the withdrawal. It seems to be common with dopaminergics that are taken chronically.

I never said anything about restless leg syndrome or the like. After re-reading my post I guess I can see how you could misunderstand it.
By nerve problems I meant a tingling, burning, and numbing feeling.

After about a month of starting GHB I noticed the nerves at joints and other spots were extra sensitive and felt swollen. Then approx 7-9 weeks I felt a strange electrical-like spike shoot through my arms and to a few fingertips. It slowly started happening more often until it was every-time. Then outside of taking it I started feeling painful sensations in my legs and the lower abdominal region. Until these last few weeks I still slept because GHB would kill the pain, I would wake up feeling much better for about 1 hour and then it would start again.

Suddenly 3.0mg isn't doing much of anything, so I up to 3.75. Worked fine for a week and then not enough, so I went to the max dose of 4.5, same results. All week long I have been getting only 5-3 hours of sleep. These last 2 days I have had several chills where I felt that same electrical-like nerve shooting through my hands.

I wasn't wanting to go into that much detail cause this isn't a GHB or Health forum. Merely seeing if it's a possibility, you can understand how I might see a pattern. The longer I took it, the worse I got.
Also, I just had a CT scan and X-ray that show I am in great health. lol

Yeah I am merely speculating here, as many do. As far as I know I could be suffering terrible central sleep apnea while under GHB. Or maybe it's a pinched nerve, really bad posture, alien abductions...

[Delta Gamma]

If you don't absolutely need GHB to function the next day, I'd suggest a pretty steep taper to see if you're dependent on it. Melatonin is probably the number one thing you could supplement, as eating a really healthy diet would provide most, if not all, the body will need for most circumstances.
I'd still suggest adding in a few antioxidant supplements in your case though just to be on the safe side.

So have you noticed any sort of zombified/back of your eyes hurting/muscles around joints/depression lately? Amphetamine and GHB use could cause these due to NT depletion.
Also, try eating a lot more than usual for the next few days to see if you feel any better from it.

[m477]

I have a question if ghb/gbl is toxic via oxidative stress so just taking a big amount of antioxidants will eliminate that?

[Delta Gamma]

I have a question if ghb/gbl is toxic via oxidative stress so just taking a big amount of antioxidants will eliminate that?

It helps counter most of the damage, but some antioxidants redox cycle in high stress stations (read: ascorbic acid) and it can be hard to get antioxidants into some of the most protected regions of the body, the nerves. Say oxidative stress would do 25% damage normally in a situation, antioxidants would bring that down to say 1-2% damage if used properly just because we can't be sure that they get where they're needed.

Its worth noting that things that upregulate your body's natural antioxidant system are going to be a great boon to preventing damage, and that higher body temperatures are known to exacerbate oxidative damage. However, the body is capable of repairing many systems as long as they are not destroyed, working out greatly increases oxidative stress and no one would argue its a bad thing.

I've done some further reading for my cell final and it appears that vitamin D is useful in helping the body cope with oxidative stress without directly acting as a antioxidant.

[Neuronic]

Update. After reading about GHB potentially depleting B vitamins I started taking supplements. Approx B1-3,12 450mg, B6 300mg spread out during the day. By the evening of the first day I was feeling notably better and the next day I felt much better. After about 4 days the numb burning pain in my leg slowly ceased and I haven't had that same electrical "zap" feeling go through my hands again yet.
My nerves still feel a little sensitive, perhaps worse because of the cold weather.

I think my serotonin levels were really low because of B vitamin deficiency, so I have been taking some 5-HTP too. Of course I am careful when taking it along with Adderall.
Also I have been taking melatonin every night, I do think it has helped but I am not sure yet.

My thoughts are that it was a poor diet causing problems. GHB just made it worse, by both depleting certain vitamins and minerals and skipping meals.(I would skip cause GHB is best on an empty stomach.)