46 replies to this topic

[scottknl]

Height: 6'2"
Weight: 155 lbs
Target: 1730 calories, 15% protein, 34% fat, 54% carbs.
Started At: 185 lbs, 2450 calories, 70% carbs, 18% fat, 12% protein oatmeal heavy ad lib omni diet.
CRON for almost 2 years now doing this. 1.5 years vegetarian.
I've moderated my methionine intake recently. I welcome comments.

Weekday meals:
Bowl of breakfast:
329 g total weight, 530.2 calories, 26% protein, 31% carbs, 37% fat with the following ingredients:
Beans, black, mature seeds, raw,Nuts, walnuts, black, dried, Nagaimo Root,
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried, Millet, raw, Raisins, seedless,
Blackstrap Molasses, Peanuts, all types, raw,Nuts, cashew nuts, dry roasted, without salt added,
Nuts, walnuts, black, dried,Oatmeal Extra Thick Oats Prepared w/water,Cocoa, dry powder, unsweetened,
Ground flaxseed, sesame seeds, whole, dried,Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried,
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, Orange peel, raw,goji berries,
Nuts, brazilnuts, dried, unblanched,Oil, olive, salad or cooking,
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried,Nuts, almonds,
Fo-ti 15 g, Huang Qi 5g

Soup/Stew:
Rice, brown, long-grain, cooked, 30 g, 33.3
Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 30 g, 6.9
Mushrooms, white, stir-fried, 50 g, 13.0
Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 5.2
Tofu, extra firm, Sunrise, 30 g, 45.9
Sweet potato, cooked, baked in skin, without salt, 15 g, 13.5
Tomato products, canned, paste, without salt added, 20 g, 16.4
Carrots, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 5.2
Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt, 30 g, 34.8
Leeks, (bulb and lower leaf-portion), cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 21 g, 6.5
Cabbage, red, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 4.4
Quorn Tenders, 38 g, 35.8
GARDENBURGER, Sun-Dried Tomato Basil Burger, 0.25 patty, 24.3
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, 3 g, 16.8
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried, 2 g, 11.5
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried, 2 g, 11.7
Oil, olive, salad or cooking, 4 g, 35.4
Oil, flaxseed, 1 g, 8.8
potassium salt, 1 g, 0.0
Spices, paprika, 1 g, 2.9
Spices, curry powder, 1 g, 3.2
enough water to fill the bowl twice.

Mid Afternoon snack:
rader farms frozen fruit, 90 g, 50.0
Strawberries, raw, 70 g, 22.4
Melons, cantaloupe, raw, 100 g, 34.0

Mid Afternoon salad:
Spinach, raw, 50 g, 11.5
Coleslaw, home-prepared, 50 g, 39.0
SALSA, calorie-corrected, 30 g, 9.1
SILK Plain soy yogurt, 30 g, 19.8
Spices, paprika, 1 g, 2.9
Oil, olive, salad or cooking, 4 g, 35.4
Oil, flaxseed, 1 g, 8.8
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, 3 g, 16.8
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried, 2 g, 11.7
Raisins, seedless, 5 g, 15.0

Soup/Stew:
Rice, brown, long-grain, cooked, 30 g, 33.3
Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 30 g, 6.9
Mushrooms, white, stir-fried, 50 g, 13.0
Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 70 g, 24.5
Tofu, extra firm, Sunrise, 30 g, 45.9
Sweet potato, cooked, baked in skin, without salt, 15 g, 13.5
Tomato products, canned, paste, without salt added, 15 g, 12.3
Carrots, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 5.2
Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt, 30 g, 34.8
Leeks, (bulb and lower leaf-portion), cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 4.6
Quorn Tenders, 38 g, 35.8
GARDENBURGER, Sun-Dried Tomato Basil Burger, 0.25 patty, 24.3
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, 3 g, 16.8
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried, 2 g, 11.5
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried, 2 g, 11.7
Oil, olive, salad or cooking, 4 g, 35.4
Oil, flaxseed, 1 g, 8.8
potassium salt, 1 g, 0.0
Spices, paprika, 1 g, 2.9
Spices, curry powder, 1 g, 3.2
enough water to fill the bowl twice.

Sandwich:
Ezekiel 4:9 sprouted sesame bread, 1 Slice, 80.0
USDA Commodity, Peanut Butter, smooth, 10 g, 58.8
Honey, 8 g, 24.3

Supplements:
B12 Supplement, 1 g, 0.0
calcium chew with Vitamin D, 2 g, 40.0 calories
15,000 Vitamin D every day.(Seattle cloud/rain)
Biotin 5mg, Ginko Bilboa 60 mg, Fo-ti 15 g, Huang Qi 5g with breakfast each day for hair.
zinc once a week, Pantothenic Acid once a month

Tea 2 or 3 large mugs of green tea every day, not entered into COM.

Variations: On weekends (3 days every week) I drop the salad/berries and double up on the sandwich.
Vegetables often vary, but usually have 8 or 9 each day minimum. Spinach,rice, lentils & mushroom are staples.

Nutrition:

===========================================
Nutrition Summary
March 8, 2011 to March 15, 2011
Daily Averages over 7 days
Report generated by CRON-o-Meter v0.9.7
===========================================

General (86%)
===========================================
Energy | 1776.8 kcal 103%
Protein | 69.9 g 108%
Carbs | 232.7 g 100%
Fiber | 41.0 g 108%
Fat | 74.3 g 97%
Water | 786.5 g 21%

Vitamins (99%)
===========================================
Vitamin A | 34378.4 IU 1146%
Folate | 514.5 µg 129%
B1 (Thiamine) | 1.2 mg 103%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 1.6 mg 126%
B3 (Niacin) | 18.7 mg 117%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 4.4 mg 89%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 1.9 mg 148%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | 115.0 µg 4793%
Vitamin C | 125.9 mg 140%
Vitamin D | 450.3 IU 225%
Vitamin E | 15.4 mg 102%
Vitamin K | 638.2 µg 532%

Minerals (100%)
===========================================
Calcium | 2021.3 mg 202%
Copper | 2.7 mg 302%
Iron | 28.7 mg 359%
Magnesium | 538.8 mg 128%
Manganese | 7.9 mg 342%
Phosphorus | 1275.2 mg 182%
Potassium | 6974.4 mg 148%
Selenium | 123.4 µg 224%
Sodium | 1579.3 mg 105%
Zinc | 13.9 mg 127%

Amino Acids (99%)
===========================================
CYS | 0.5 g 133%
ILE | 1.7 g 123%
LEU | 2.9 g 107%
LYS | 2.1 g 99%
MET | 0.7 g 91%
PHE | 2.0 g 200%
THR | 1.7 g 158%
TRP | 0.8 g 275%
TYR | 1.1 g 146%
VAL | 2.2 g 121%

Lipids (65%)
===========================================
Saturated | 11.3 g 56%
Omega-3 | 3.3 g 204%
Omega-6 | 17.2 g 101%
Cholesterol | 16.3 mg 5%

Edited by Michael, 26 September 2011 - 07:51 PM.

[sthira]

Your food choices and amounts look great. As a fellow traveler, my comment concerns style: I like more control over what I'm eating when I'm eating it. That is, I eat some asparagus, steamed, 237/g, and I like to see how it alone is adding to my nutritional needs. I like eating to be really simple; I don't do well with complicated mixes of foods that are tricky to calculate (eg, "cabbage, red, 15/g).

[scottknl]

Your food choices and amounts look great. As a fellow traveler, my comment concerns style: I like more control over what I'm eating when I'm eating it. That is, I eat some asparagus, steamed, 237/g, and I like to see how it alone is adding to my nutritional needs. I like eating to be really simple; I don't do well with complicated mixes of foods that are tricky to calculate (eg, "cabbage, red, 15/g).

Thanks for you comments, sthira. I have favorite foods for enhancing certain micronutrients. If B-vitamins are needed then I eat more mushrooms. If I'm low on zinc I'll eat more quorn. For calcium and Vitamin-D I take a chewable supplement. Vitamin-E is enhanced with sunflower seeds. Lentils are low in methionine, a great protein source and higher in folate. Flax oil for Omega-3's. I don't take any fish oil, so I rely on my body to convert the Flax oil for me. So far so good. You're correct that my meals tend to be a mixture of many high nutrient items instead of large quantities of single items. I'm strict about separating fruit from other meal items, and as you can see I keep fruit intake very low with berries and melons.

COM shows adequate niacin intake, but when I experiment with additional flushing niacin supplements I lose the cold feeling in my hands and feet. Do you have any comments on this? The only other thing that gets me warm is vigorous exercise. Probably the one thing I miss most about being on CR compared to ad-lib is being warm often. I really don't miss the crappy food I used to eat.

I have all the same feelings about CR that you listed in your own thread recently. I gave up an active job packing around tools and medical equipment for a more sedentary job as a computer jockey. If I didn't make 3x the salary, I'm healthy enough now to go back to it!

[sthira]

It sounds like you're really intelligent and conscious with your diet. Looking over the list of your food choices reads like the Who's Who of great, healthy stuff. How about more cruciferous vegetables and more leafy greens?

The big picture: eat well, eat less: a simple, elegant message that's somehow abnormal in this culture. For the little picture, your message of eating in a targeted fashion is smart: low on E? eat a few grams of sunflower seeds. CoM is a powerful tool, and a great gift.

Similar to you, I eat loads of mushrooms - mostly shiitake, but I haven't found any I dislike. I cook them cos I don't want rocket fuel poisoning. Your quorn suggestion for zinc is helpful - I've never eaten nor considered quorn. Any brand suggestions? Usually I'm shy of pre-packaged manufactured stuff.

Regarding cold hands and feet, I'm pretty much always cold and bundling up. Staying active helps, wearing layers helps, but most helpful would be a move to Costa Rica and into a friendlier culture and climate. USA is cold, lonely, isolated from the world, wasteful - hell yes we're cold for being rational.

Your nutrition numbers for the week look great! Better, more balanced than mine. Maybe a little low in fiber? I usually chow down on 120/g or more a day. Pantothenic Acid looks slightly low. And I wonder if supplementing with 15,000 IU everyday is too much?

But overall - the grand view - maybe for you is to keep doing what you're doing.

[scottknl]

Hi sthira, They have several products with slightly different flavors. It's high in protein, low in fat and low in carbs. It's a mycoprotein grown in vats (~40%) and textured vegetable protein (not from soy) held together a small amount of egg whites. If you eat this you have to give up the joy of calling yourself a vegan. I'm glad to eat some protein that has zinc in it. Some textured vegetable proteins made from soy can raise IGF-1 levels, but I don't think this one has been tested yet. On the west coast of US can get this in common grocery stores like whole foods etc. If I didn't have this, I'd be eating even more lentils and soy tofu.

Here's a link to the website of the only company that makes it: here

My fiber level works pretty good for me. I used to have trouble, but now everything's great.

As I indicated in my original post, I supplement pantothenic acid once a month to make up for the short fall. It's sometimes hard to find a food that fits without putting the rest of the diet out of balance.

I will be looking for more clear guidelines about Vitamin D supplementation and see if I'm overdoing it. I was low before I started CR, so I'm trying to build up to a higher level. We'll see at my next set of medical tests this summer. Perhaps I should spend the extra $350 and get the full vitamin/mineral screening done.

Thanks again for you encouraging words.

Edited by scottknl, 18 March 2011 - 10:09 PM.

[scottknl]

I reworked the breakfast numbers so that others could enter them into COM. The rest of the diet is unchanged.

Weekday meals:
Bowl of breakfast:
329 g total weight with the following ingredients:
Beans, black, mature seeds, raw ,5.7 g,19.4 kcal
Nuts, walnuts, black, dried ,7.1 g,43.9 kcal
Nagaimo Root ,10.6 g,6.9 kcal http://wholefoodcata...us_root,_boiled)/
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried ,2.8 g,16.0 kcal
Millet, raw ,7.1 g,26.8 kcal
Raisins, seedless ,4.6 g,13.8 kcal
Water, tap, drinking ,56 g,0.0 kcal
Soymilk (All flavors), enhanced ,32.5 g,14.6 kcal
Rice Dream2 ,32.5 g,16.2 kcal http://www.tastethed...ct/1467/202.php
Blackstrap Molasses ,34.5 g,69.0 kcal http://www.whfoods.c...tname=foodspice
Peanuts, all types, raw ,3 g,17.0 kcal
Nuts, cashew nuts, dry roasted, without salt added ,4 g,23.0 kcal
Nuts, walnuts, black, dried ,3 g,18.5 kcal
Oatmeal Extra Thick Oats Prepared w/water ,94 g,94.0 kcal http://www.bobsredmi...d4d322d13a9.jpg (20g dry)
Cocoa, dry powder, unsweetened ,6 g,13.7 kcal
Oil, flaxseed ,2 g,17.7 kcal
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried ,2 g,11.5 kcal
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried ,1 g,5.8 kcal
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried ,1 g,5.6 kcal
Orange peel, raw ,2 g,1.9 kcal
goji berries ,11 g,44.0 kcal
Nuts, brazilnuts, dried, unblanched ,3 g,19.7 kcal
Oil, olive, salad or cooking ,4 g,35.4 kcal
Fo-ti 15 g unknown kcal not in COM
Huang Qi 5 g unknown kcal not in COM

Soup/Stew:
Rice, brown, long-grain, cooked, 30 g, 33.3
Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 30 g, 6.9
Mushrooms, white, stir-fried, 50 g, 13.0
Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 5.2
Tofu, extra firm, Sunrise, 30 g, 45.9
Sweet potato, cooked, baked in skin, without salt, 15 g, 13.5
Tomato products, canned, paste, without salt added, 20 g, 16.4
Carrots, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 5.2
Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt, 30 g, 34.8
Leeks, (bulb and lower leaf-portion), cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 21 g, 6.5
Cabbage, red, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 4.4
Quorn Tenders, 38 g, 35.8
GARDENBURGER, Sun-Dried Tomato Basil Burger, 0.25 patty, 24.3
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, 3 g, 16.8
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried, 2 g, 11.5
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried, 2 g, 11.7
Oil, olive, salad or cooking, 4 g, 35.4
Oil, flaxseed, 1 g, 8.8
potassium salt, 1 g, 0.0
Spices, paprika, 1 g, 2.9
Spices, curry powder, 1 g, 3.2
enough water to fill the bowl twice.

Mid Afternoon snack:
rader farms frozen fruit, 90 g, 50.0
Strawberries, raw, 70 g, 22.4
Melons, cantaloupe, raw, 100 g, 34.0

Mid Afternoon salad:
Spinach, raw, 50 g, 11.5
Coleslaw, home-prepared, 50 g, 39.0
SALSA, calorie-corrected, 30 g, 9.1
SILK Plain soy yogurt, 30 g, 19.8
Spices, paprika, 1 g, 2.9
Oil, olive, salad or cooking, 4 g, 35.4
Oil, flaxseed, 1 g, 8.8
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, 3 g, 16.8
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried, 2 g, 11.7
Raisins, seedless, 5 g, 15.0

Soup/Stew:
Rice, brown, long-grain, cooked, 30 g, 33.3
Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 30 g, 6.9
Mushrooms, white, stir-fried, 50 g, 13.0
Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 70 g, 24.5
Tofu, extra firm, Sunrise, 30 g, 45.9
Sweet potato, cooked, baked in skin, without salt, 15 g, 13.5
Tomato products, canned, paste, without salt added, 15 g, 12.3
Carrots, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 5.2
Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt, 30 g, 34.8
Leeks, (bulb and lower leaf-portion), cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 15 g, 4.6
Quorn Tenders, 38 g, 35.8
GARDENBURGER, Sun-Dried Tomato Basil Burger, 0.25 patty, 24.3
Seeds, pumpkin and squash seed kernels, dried, 3 g, 16.8
Seeds, sesame seeds, whole, dried, 2 g, 11.5
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried, 2 g, 11.7
Oil, olive, salad or cooking, 4 g, 35.4
Oil, flaxseed, 1 g, 8.8
potassium salt, 1 g, 0.0
Spices, paprika, 1 g, 2.9
Spices, curry powder, 1 g, 3.2
enough water to fill the bowl twice.

Sandwich:
Ezekiel 4:9 sprouted sesame bread, 1 Slice, 80.0
USDA Commodity, Peanut Butter, smooth, 10 g, 58.8
Honey, 8 g, 24.3

Supplements:
B12 Supplement, 1 g, 0.0
calcium chew with Vitamin D, 2 g, 40.0 calories
15,000 Vitamin D every day.(Seattle cloud/rain)
Biotin 5mg, Ginko Bilboa 60 mg, Fo-ti 15 g, Huang Qi 5g with breakfast each day for hair.
zinc once a week, Pantothenic Acid once a month

Tea 2 or 3 large mugs of green tea every day, not entered into COM.

[scottknl]

From The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2008)

Flaxseed oil and fish-oil capsule consumption alters human red
blood cell n–3 fatty acid composition: a multiple-dosing trial
comparing 2 sources of n–3 fatty acid

They tested
1.2 g flax oil/d
2.4 g flax oil /d
3.6 g flax oil/d
and
0.6 g fish oil /d
1.2 g fish oil/d

in firefighters and found that the Omega-3 fats ALA, EPA, DPA were all affected by supplementation of both fish and flax oils
but only fish oil affected DHA. Flax oil supplementation had no effect on DHA levels.
ALA flax oil looks better, both are effective.
EPA fish oil looks better, both are effective.
DPA similar performance for both, both are effective.
DHA fish oil only showed an effect. flax oil was not effective on DHA.

The Omega-6 fats LNA were not affected by either fish oil or flax oil.
ARA and ADA were affected by both flax and fish oil, but fish oil was superior in both cases.

EPA can be obtained from flax oil easily, so the question comes down to how much DHA do you need and does it affect your health to be short on it?
Wikipedia says that brain and eye health can suffer from lack of DHA. I have to say cancer has so many factors that low DHA doesn't concern me.
Any concerns about cardiovascular health are probably misplaced when talking about a group of CR practicioners. My lipid numbers are fantastic and
I'll bet sthira's are pretty good too.

Central nervous system constituent

DHA is the most abundant omega-3 fatty acid in the brain and retina. DHA comprises 40% of the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in the brain and 60% of the PUFAs in the retina. 50% of the weight of a neuron's plasma membrane is composed of DHA.[5]

Of all the fatty acids, DHA has the largest effect on brain PUFA composition.[6] DHA is found in three phospholipids: phosphatidylethanolamine, ethanolamine plasmalogens, and phosphatidylserine (PS). It modulates the carrier-mediated transport of choline, glycine, and taurine, the function of delayed rectifier potassium channels, and the response of rhodopsin contained in the synaptic vesicles, among many other functions.[7]

DHA deficiency is associated with cognitive decline.[8] PS controls apoptosis, and low DHA levels lower neural cell PS and increase neural cell death.[9] DHA is depleted in the cerebral cortex of severely depressed patients.[10][11]

From Age-Related Decline in Rod Phototransduction Sensitivity in Rhesus Monkeys Fed an n-3 Fatty Acid Deficient Diet (2009)

Purpose
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), an n-3 fatty acid is the major polyunsaturate in rod outer segments. The effect of long term n-3 fatty acid deficiency on rod and cone phototransduction was investigated in the rhesus monkey.

Methods
From birth to [congruent with] 9 years rhesus monkeys were fed an n-3 deficient diet (n=9) known to reduce retinal DHA by 80%. Monkeys in the control group (n=12) received either 8% α-linolenic acid (ALA) or 0.6% DHA both of which support normal retinal DHA levels. None of the diets contained carotenoids. Photoactivation kinetics were assessed from the rate of increase, and a P3 model fit of the ERG a-wave. Maximal cone amplitude and sensitivity were measured from the cone a-wave at 4 ms. The rod photoresponse and rod recovery were derived using a paired flash method.

Results
Rod sensitivity was reduced by 40% in the n-3 deficient monkeys at 9 but not 4.5 years. The onset of the rising phase of the photoresponse was significantly delayed (p<0.004) at 9 years. Rod recovery was delayed by 20% in n-3 deficient monkeys at both ages, but only for bright saturating flashes. Cone phototransduction was not altered by n-3 deficiency

Conclusions
Long-term dietary n-3 deficiency in the rhesus monkey was associated with two changes in retinal function. First, there was a delay in rod recovery that has remained relatively constant throughout life. Second, there was an age dependent loss in rod phototransduction sensitivity; the lack of dietary carotenoids may have contributed to this decline.

As for brain health
Differential Cerebral Cortex Transcriptomes of Baboon Neonates Consuming Moderate and High Docosahexaenoic Acid Formulas

Background
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, 22:6n-3) and arachidonic acid (ARA, 20:4n-6) are the major long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LCPUFA) of the central nervous system (CNS). These nutrients are present in most infant formulas at modest levels, intended to support visual and neural development. There are no investigations in primates of the biological consequences of dietary DHA at levels above those present in formulas but within normal breastmilk levels.

Methods and Findings
Twelve baboons were divided into three formula groups: Control, with no DHA-ARA; “L”, LCPUFA, with 0.33%DHA-0.67%ARA; “L3”, LCPUFA, with 1.00%DHA-0.67%ARA. All the samples are from the precentral gyrus of cerebral cortex brain regions. At 12 weeks of age, changes in gene expression were detected in 1,108 of 54,000 probe sets (2.05%), with most showing <2-fold change. Gene ontology analysis assigns them to diverse biological functions, notably lipid metabolism and transport, G-protein and signal transduction, development, visual perception, cytoskeleton, peptidases, stress response, transcription regulation, and 400 transcripts having no defined function. PLA2G6, a phospholipase recently associated with infantile neuroaxonal dystrophy, was down regulated in both LCPUFA groups. ELOVL5, a PUFA elongase, was the only LCPUFA biosynthetic enzyme that was differentially expressed. Mitochondrial fatty acid carrier, CPT2, was among several genes associated with mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation to be down regulated by high DHA, while the mitochondrial proton carrier, UCP2, was upregulated. TIMM8A, also known as deafness/dystonia peptide 1, was among several differentially expressed neural development genes. LUM and TIMP3, associated with corneal structure and age-related macular degeneration, respectively, were among visual perception genes influenced by LCPUFA. TIA1, a silencer of COX2 gene translation, is upregulated by high DHA. Ingenuity pathway analysis identified a highly significant nervous system network, with epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) as the outstanding interaction partner.

Conclusions
These data indicate that LCPUFA concentrations within the normal range of human breastmilk induce global changes in gene expression across a wide array of processes, in addition to changes in visual and neural function normally associated with formula LCPUFA.

Despite the fact that the study is on infant baboons, it shows a considerable range of effects on brain functions and signaling processes.

Over the past 2 years my eyes have been getting worse, but I'm 45 and that's often the time when eyes do that. Brain function could always use a little boost, but it's not too bad despite the DHA deficient diet. I want to continue to avoid the pollution in fish and meats. I've read that meats can encourage immune system abnormalities and general soreness. Henceforth I'll be adding DHA to my vegetarian CR via Algae-derived DHA supplements.

[Mari]

You have 17 grams of omega 6. That, IMO, is way too high. Plus the omega 3 is ALA so not converted well. I would work on fixing that ratio as soon as possible.

Also, what about choline, taurine, carnosine, etc. that you could get from meat? Are you supplementing these? I hope your diet is vegan for the animals, because it doesn't look like it'll give you optimal health.

Edit:
Avoiding animal products because of pollution? Why not get grassfed/ pastured animal products from a farmer. Then you'd get all the good stuff and not have to worry. Plus, you're eating a large amount of produce, which has pesticides. Can't imagine those are too good for you either. Even organic has quite a bit, and some of the organic chemicals are worse than conventional.

Edited by Mari, 24 March 2011 - 01:13 AM.

[scottknl]

You have 17 grams of omega 6. That, IMO, is way too high. Plus the omega 3 is ALA so not converted well. I would work on fixing that ratio as soon as possible.

Also, what about choline, taurine, carnosine, etc. that you could get from meat? Are you supplementing these? I hope your diet is vegan for the animals, because it doesn't look like it'll give you optimal health.

Edit:
Avoiding animal products because of pollution? Why not get grassfed/ pastured animal products from a farmer. Then you'd get all the good stuff and not have to worry. Plus, you're eating a large amount of produce, which has pesticides. Can't imagine those are too good for you either. Even organic has quite a bit, and some of the organic chemicals are worse than conventional.

I simply feel much better when I eat vegetarian. Eating meat & eggs (I've never liked the taste of fish) makes my joints ache and my health is worse overall. Even grass fed / pastured animals have high levels of hormones from the slaughtering process and if done in an assembly line fashion have a high chance of passing nasty bacterial infections, e-coli, MRSA etc. I guess you didn't watch the video I linked to in pollution quote above, eh? Part 2 is even better. Chicken and fish are filthy. Fish often have trace elements of mercury, arsenic, and other horrible stuff. Tuna is so polluted, you exceed govt guidelines for pollution levels if you eat it more than twice a week. The vast majority of the produce I eat is organic. Choline can be made by my body, so I don't need to eat meat for that. I'll have to do some reading on the others you mentioned.

I've had great success with a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio of Omega-6:Omega-3 fatty acids in my diet. My TG went from 219 down to 50. My risk ratio (TC/HDL) went from 6.5 to 2.48 (guideline < 5.0). Last summer TG/HDL = 0.89 (guideline < 2.0). Those are pretty good numbers and I think they'll be even better when I take tests this year. So I'm loath to change it too much on your recommendation without some science to tell me the risk I'd be taking by staying with the current plan (+ some DHA).

Plus vegetarian lifestyle reduces cancer.
Unless you work in the poultry processing plant.

Edited by scottknl, 24 March 2011 - 02:41 AM.

[Mari]

17:3 is over 5:1, and that's assuming 100 percent conversion of ala. Plus with pufas, if your ratio is perfect but you're getting 17 grams of each... that's not good. Pufas are fragile and oxidize readily. You have a high amount of pufa there with a mediocre ratio.

Also, I don't believe you can make choline, which is why it is an essential nutrient. Some people even develop deficiency symptoms while eating the RDI.

And lastly, I am sure your numbers got better. Most people's do when they switch to a healthier diet and stop eating shit. I think your diet is better than average, but definitely not optimal.

[sthira]

Just to understand your MO. For breakfast you're making a giant bowl of all those ingredients? Do you pre-make it and like keep it in bags in the freezer? Then you measure out a specified amount and guess at the calorie count, or do math - how does that work? Next, you make the lunch soup/stew similarly? Like in a giant weekly pot, and then you ladle out daily portions to bring to work?

Your salad I understand. Into it I would add more color and variety, taste and freshness. Overall, I like more cruciferous vegs and more leafy greens: kale, collard/mustard/turnip greens, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, more cabbage than 15/g at a time. I'd also add more fruit variety. Me? I'd nix the bread, the soy products, the Rice Dream, the molasses, the gardenburger. I don't know, I'm just really hesitant when it comes to processed foods. I'd rather just steam more vegetables or eat another grapefruit. Btw, how do you eat citrus peels - or is this a ground spice?

[scottknl]

Just to understand your MO. For breakfast you're making a giant bowl of all those ingredients? Do you pre-make it and like keep it in bags in the freezer? Then you measure out a specified amount and guess at the calorie count, or do math - how does that work? Next, you make the lunch soup/stew similarly? Like in a giant weekly pot, and then you ladle out daily portions to bring to work?

Your salad I understand. Into it I would add more color and variety, taste and freshness. Overall, I like more cruciferous vegs and more leafy greens: kale, collard/mustard/turnip greens, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, more cabbage than 15/g at a time. I'd also add more fruit variety. Me? I'd nix the bread, the soy products, the Rice Dream, the molasses, the gardenburger. I don't know, I'm just really hesitant when it comes to processed foods. I'd rather just steam more vegetables or eat another grapefruit. Btw, how do you eat citrus peels - or is this a ground spice?

Hi Sthira, On the weekend my wife puts a clay pot on the stove with previously soaked beans and herbs in it to simmer for a few hours. When the beans are nearly ready, we add the quicker cooking stuff like quinoa/millet and raisins, sesame powder, walnuts with enough water to keep it simmering for another hour or so. At the end we mix in some flax seed powder and let it cool. This is our base breakfast which is stored in the fridge. Each day I soak oatmeal (20g dry) with soy yogurt and water. In the morning I get up and put the 15g fo-ti,5g HuangQi, 5g goji berries,1g dried orange peel, 5g cocoa and some water in a pot to boil. I then add the soaked oatmeal, 3g pumpkin seeds, 2g sesame, 2g sunflower, 1 brazil nut, 3g peanuts, 3g walnuts, 3g cashews, 3g almonds, 75g of the base breakfast, and 30 grams of blackstrap molasses to the pot and bring to a boil, adding water if necessary. At the end I mix in the 2g flax seed and 3g olive oil. Then I weigh the whole weight of it and put it into cronometer. Usually about 340 grams and around 500 calories. I drink the soy milk/rice milk later in the day because it can block nutrient uptake.

We buy organic oranges and eat them occasionally and save the peels. Then we tear them up into small pieces and leave them out in the sun to dry. Once dried, we collect them in a jar until we have enough to grind into powder. We use a coffee grinder to turn them into powder and put it in a bottle on the counter for breakfast or sometimes in tea.

For my lunch we stir fry most of the vegetables on the weekend for about 2 minutes with water/grapeseed oil and a bit of salt then store in the fridge. Each day I measure out 15g or 30g of each vegetable into a container with measured sunflower seeds, sesame seeds, and olive oil/flax oil, and meat substitutes, spices, potassium salt etc. Once at work, I take a ceramic bowl and fill it with the stuff from the container and water. Microwave for 4 minutes at 50% power. Fresh vegetable soup. I put extra water from rinsing the original lunch container into it as I eat, so I have a fairly large volume of water.

I don't prepare the soup ahead of time, only the individual vegetables. My vegetable choice may vary from week to week adding this or removing that vegetable, so I just copy yesterday's cron entries and then edit them to remove/add items and quantities. It's not too much work.

At home in the evening I may take the same vegetables I had in the soup, but just put them on a plate instead and heat them up in microwave. In winter it's nice to have the warm soup. In summer it keeps the house cooler if I use the microwave on a plate of vegetables.

When I cut back, the peanut butter sandwiches are the first thing I eliminate. I already have about 10 - 15 minutes getting the berries, salad, and soup stuff ready each day, so I wouldn't want to make the salad much more complicated than it already is, though I know for you it's the highlight of the day.

Cheers, KS

[scottknl]

17:3 is over 5:1, and that's assuming 100 percent conversion of ala. Plus with pufas, if your ratio is perfect but you're getting 17 grams of each... that's not good. Pufas are fragile and oxidize readily. You have a high amount of pufa there with a mediocre ratio.

Also, I don't believe you can make choline, which is why it is an essential nutrient. Some people even develop deficiency symptoms while eating the RDI.

And lastly, I am sure your numbers got better. Most people's do when they switch to a healthier diet and stop eating shit. I think your diet is better than average, but definitely not optimal.

Hi Mari, Thanks for your comments. Although the 17:3 ratio isn't the best I've ever achieved, I've found in the past when I had a 16:6 ratio I had symptoms of nose bleeds etc. I reduced the n-3 fats in accordance with MR and the FDA's warnings about risk of bleeding on the brain with higher n-3 intake. Since doing so, the nose bleeds are gone. One of the reasons my n-6 intake is so high is that it's also a source of vitamin-E for me. I can make about 15.5:3.2 as the best compromise between reducing the ratio and increasing Vitamin-E to RDA. Vitamin-E supplementation has been proven ineffective at fighting cancers and can reduce lifespan, so I'm careful to stick close to the RDA on that.

Diet is always a balance of give and take. I'm waiting to see MR's diet and see how he achieves his balance. I expect I'll see more fish and supplements than I like.

My choline is about 25 - 30% (160 mg today) according to COM which doesn't necessarily report it for all foods. It's not listed on package labels, so it's pretty hard to track what you don't have information for. According to MR's theories on fatty acid intake I should be getting enough of my DHA needs to avoid cardio problems. For my age, my cardio performance is pretty good with 3 or 4 1/2 marathons each year and a significant improvement in running times since starting CR.

Nobody's posted a meat-eater CR diet yet. Will you be doing so, Mari?

Edit: I would think that average conversion ratio's of ALA are built into the suggested ratios of n-6:n-3 of 4:1 or lower. Perhaps worrying about cardiovascular health for people on CR is kind of silly anyway. If one follows a CR diet for any length of time, one doesn't die from heart problems or stroke. Nobody on the CR discussion forums I've ever seen has had a heart attack since starting CR diet. I'm much more worried about joint deterioration, eyes, ears and eventual cancers. Can you make a case that improving intake of choline, carnosine, PUFA ratio's etc will help those?

Edited by scottknl, 25 March 2011 - 04:58 PM.

[sthira]

It sounds like you guys are really cool about your CR. Also it's great you've been able to maintain youur body weight after a year an a half of this. You and I are the same height, you eat even fewer calories than I do, and I'm nearly 30 pounds lighter. What that suggests is your body is efficient at using those calories. Are you in Fontana's study?

[Mari]

When you improved your ratio, did you just add more n-3? It would be simpler and probably healthier to just decrease n-6. Then you wouldn't have to worry about n-3 excess.

And Pufas deplete vitamin e... If you have lower pufas, you need less vitamin e. So why not just eat less pufas, skip some oxidation,and reduce inflammation?

CR does not make you invincible. You can still succumb to heart disease. I strongly recommend you fix your diet because it does not look very healthy. For cancer at least, n-6 is very bad. It strongly promotes metastasis. I have the references, but I'm not on my own computer so I can get it later or you can just take my word for it. This looks to be an interesting discussion on carnosine, but I don't have access.My link

I am not doing CR. I am 15 and a competitive tennis player and I need to maintain my strength.

[sthira]

That response is a little silly, Mari. I'm sure you're well intended, but to call this diet unhealthy and strongly recommend fixing it is goofy. This diet he's posted is healthier than 99% of anyone's. 17/g/d n-6 is fine - especially when you actually look and read what he's eating: a variety of tiny amounts of raw nuts: and he's balancing fine with n-3. It's also important to remember this is just a few day snapshot of a whole diet an honest man is displaying. His diet - like any other animal's - changes daily, weekly, seasonally, yearly.

Now, let us see you muster fortitude to measure and record your diet, put yours into a nutrition program and post it for anyone to make comments. Perspectives on grace and humility quickly shift when you find your own dietary decisions under language of others.

[kenj]

Scottknl,

interesting this one topic, I notice myself I'm eating less meat these days, because I feel I 'function' better without, plus an intelligently designed vegetarian diet does sit well with the data we have on Calorie Restriction to extend life. So, in a healthy and strong heartbeat I'd say you're probably eating a very healthy & nutritious diet, and I just read you run yearly marathons... wow, just.. wow.

[scottknl]

That response is a little silly, Mari. I'm sure you're well intended, but to call this diet unhealthy and strongly recommend fixing it is goofy. This diet he's posted is healthier than 99% of anyone's. 17/g/d n-6 is fine - especially when you actually look and read what he's eating: a variety of tiny amounts of raw nuts: and he's balancing fine with n-3. It's also important to remember this is just a few day snapshot of a whole diet an honest man is displaying. His diet - like any other animal's - changes daily, weekly, seasonally, yearly.

Now, let us see you muster fortitude to measure and record your diet, put yours into a nutrition program and post it for anyone to make comments. Perspectives on grace and humility quickly shift when you find your own dietary decisions under language of others.

Thanks for the post, sthira. I'd say that Mari is correct for not implementing a CR diet at her age and with her requirement for competitive sports. She should wait until she's in her 20's and finished physical growth. Some early adopters of CR like Matt and Johann have indicated that there's a social aspect to this too that may be very important to Mari right now. It's probably a good exercise for her to note her diet in the nutrition forum and see what others make of her choices. In another nutrition forum on milk she indicates that she favors raw grass fed full fat dairy which is not a usual choice for people focused on longevity.

She probably has a point in that we should take a close look at the nutrient change between a omni diet and a vegetarian diet and see if we can fix a vegetarian diet to be healthier than an omni one. The epidemiology shows that vegetarians live around the same lifespan as omni diets. It may not be all due to B12 deficiency.

Mortality in British vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford)1,2,3,4
Timothy J Key, Paul N Appleby, Elizabeth A Spencer, Ruth C Travis, Andrew W Roddam, and Naomi E Allen
+ Author Affiliations

1From the Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Nuffield Department of Clinical Medicine, University of Oxford, Oxford, United Kingdom.
↵2 Presented at the symposium, “Fifth International Congress on Vegetarian Nutrition,” held in Loma Linda, CA, March 4–6, 2008.

↵3 Supported by the Cancer Research UK, Medical Research Council.

↵4 Reprints not available. Address correspondence to TJ Key, Cancer Epidemiology Unit, University of Oxford, Richard Doll Building, Roosevelt Drive, Oxford OX3 7LF, United Kingdom. E-mail: tim.key@ceu.ox.ac.uk.


Next Section
Abstract

Background: Few prospective studies have examined the mortality of vegetarians.

Objective: We present results on mortality among vegetarians and nonvegetarians in the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford).

Design: We used a prospective study of men and women recruited throughout the United Kingdom in the 1990s.

Results: Among 64,234 participants aged 20–89 y for whom diet group was known, 2965 had died before age 90 by 30 June 2007. The death rates of participants are much lower than average for the United Kingdom. The standardized mortality ratio for all causes of death was 52% (95% CI: 50%, 54%) and was identical in vegetarians and in nonvegetarians. Comparing vegetarians with meat eaters among the 47,254 participants who had no prevalent cardiovascular disease or malignant cancer at recruitment, the death rate ratios adjusted for age, sex, smoking, and alcohol consumption were 0.81 (95% CI: 0.57, 1.16) for ischemic heart disease and 1.03 (95% CI: 0.90, 1.16) for all causes of death.

Conclusions: The mortality of both the vegetarians and the nonvegetarians in this study is low compared with national rates. Within the study, mortality from circulatory diseases and all causes is not significantly different between vegetarians and meat eaters, but the study is not large enough to exclude small or moderate differences for specific causes of death, and more research on this topic is required.

DHA, carnosine, choline and taurine may have some effects on eye/brain health and perhaps some cellular deterioration aspects over the long term. I haven't investigated the existing literature all of these yet, so I hesitate to dismiss them.

[Mari]

I am absolutely not saying it is unhealthy. It is obviously better than the SAD and many other diets as well. I just think it could be improved. 17g/day of n-6 is just not good, sorry. It's not even about the ratio really. N-6 oxidizes readily and is inflammatory. It is problematic. It's better than getting 40g/day, but I think that if he lowered it he would be healthier. Maybe I'm being nit-picky, but my comments stand. I'm eating significantly more fat than him, but my n-6 intake rarely exceeds 10g. That is with plugging in conventional eggs, meat, and dairy too. Grassfed has even lower levels and quite a bit more n-3.

I don't think my diet would be well received. I need about 3000 calories a day to maintain my weight with my training schedule. I am under no illusions that this is optimal, and it is certainly not CR (I'm 5'7). I can hit all of my nutrient needs at around 1400 calories a day, but I fill in the rest with fat (saturated and monounsaturated) and carbs from starchy tubers or fruit. Maybe I will post it in the nutrition section and see what comments I get. It's a paleoish diet by the way.

[scottknl]

Scottknl,

interesting this one topic, I notice myself I'm eating less meat these days, because I feel I 'function' better without, plus an intelligently designed vegetarian diet does sit well with the data we have on Calorie Restriction to extend life. So, in a healthy and strong heartbeat I'd say you're probably eating a very healthy & nutritious diet, and I just read you run yearly marathons... wow, just.. wow.

Thanks for your encouragement, kenj. I'm glad you're finding a healthy life without the aches and pains from excessive meat consumption.

Yesterday was a big exercise day for me. Over 25 km on the rowing machine that took 2 hrs. Then I ran for 5.5 miles in 48 minutes. Then 25 minutes more on the rowing machine for another 5 km. I think I burned more calories than I took in I should explain that I organize a rowing challenge website on yahoo and we're currently having a challenge where teams of people from around the world row 500 km in the month of March.

[sthira]

Right on, Mari, no harsh. Obviously every diet can be improved, and sharing tales is helpful. At 15, you shouldn't be on CR as you know, and you seem bright enough to know what best suits your lifestyle. I wish I was half as together @ 15 - I was a hacky sack clown addicted to funyons and cheetoes.

Scott makes a nice point about CR: one needn't be a weak, deskbound putz to make it go.

[sthira]

Hey Scott: I just wanted to let you know you've inspired me to alter my diet somewhat. Since I needed to add more legumes anyway, I'm now boiling up a batch of ten or so different species in a big pot, then spooning out 200/g per day. This is helping give me more fat to go with all the greens and vegs I eat. So thanks again for sharing your diet - your work here wasn't in vain.

[scottknl]

Hey Scott: I just wanted to let you know you've inspired me to alter my diet somewhat. Since I needed to add more legumes anyway, I'm now boiling up a batch of ten or so different species in a big pot, then spooning out 200/g per day. This is helping give me more fat to go with all the greens and vegs I eat. So thanks again for sharing your diet - your work here wasn't in vain.

Just glad I could help. As shown by my posted diet, I believe in a balanced moderate approach and beans are one of my favorites. I'm glad you have lots of greens, cause they're the best, but, you need to add some other stuff too I think just to round out the micro-nutrients and phyto-nutrients that future nutrition research may find necessary. I also suspect that combinations of nutrients and phyto-nutrients also may come into play with nutrition and that future research into genetic interactions with nutrition will validate this. It's going to be an exciting next 25 years with all the genetic and anti-aging research going on. It'll make the last 25 yrs look like we were sitting on our thumbs doing nothing!

[scottknl]

...
Over the past 2 years my eyes have been getting worse, but I'm 45 and that's often the time when eyes do that. Brain function could always use a little boost, but it's not too bad despite the DHA deficient diet. I want to continue to avoid the pollution in fish and meats. I've read that meats can encourage immune system abnormalities and general soreness. Henceforth I'll be adding DHA to my vegetarian CR via Algae-derived DHA supplements.

These messages have convinced me to reverse my decision to supplement with DHA:
http://www.longecity...post__p__401231
http://www.longecity...post__p__410395

Reading the solid reasoning of the above messages from MR makes me realize how easy it is to be led astray in the confusing web of nutritional studies and counter-studies.

[TheFountain]

When you improved your ratio, did you just add more n-3? It would be simpler and probably healthier to just decrease n-6. Then you wouldn't have to worry about n-3 excess.

And Pufas deplete vitamin e... If you have lower pufas, you need less vitamin e. So why not just eat less pufas, skip some oxidation,and reduce inflammation?

CR does not make you invincible. You can still succumb to heart disease. I strongly recommend you fix your diet because it does not look very healthy. For cancer at least, n-6 is very bad. It strongly promotes metastasis. I have the references, but I'm not on my own computer so I can get it later or you can just take my word for it. This looks to be an interesting discussion on carnosine, but I don't have access.My link

I am not doing CR. I am 15 and a competitive tennis player and I need to maintain my strength.

meat consumption has been connected through several types of cancer. Including, most notably, prostate cancer. I know alot of the paleo crowd like to think that their mechanistic speculation debunks this fact, but it is not so. They have no actual proof.

[Zaul]

WRONG!

Here's your proof

[Forever21]

Is all that great really necessary?

Edited by Forever21, 03 April 2011 - 03:08 PM.

[scottknl]

WRONG!

Here's your proof

Dude, did you even look at the nutrition info from COM? I'm getting tons of Vitamin A thru my food and supplementing with B12 and Vitamin D. Plus I'm an adult, not an infant. What a strange link to post. This post thread is about CR and in particular my post is about CRON meaning optimal nutrition. I get > 95% RDI of every essential vitamin and mineral every day. You might also have posted many of the studies that say that vegetarians live as long or slightly shorter than meat eaters, but those also have little to do with the diet and lifestyle I follow. If you show me that vegetarians on CR live shorter or have specific problems, then I'll be happy to review the evidence.

Edited by scottknl, 03 April 2011 - 05:35 PM.

[TheFountain]

You might also have posted many of the studies that say that vegetarians live as long or slightly shorter than meat eaters, but those also have little to do with the diet and lifestyle I follow.

Vegetarians may have a significantly lower risk of mortality than people who eat lots of meat, according to a study at the German Cancer Research Centre (DFKZ).

The study, which aimed to understand the impact of vegetarian nutrition and the connected lifestyle on the risk of mortality, included around 1900 participants. These were divided into vegans (who abstain not only from meat but also from other animal products such as eggs or dairy products), vegetarians (who consume eggs and dairy products but no fish or meat) and moderate vegetarians (occasional meat and fish eaters).



On comparison with the general population, the study revealed a significant increase in life expectancy for the study participants. For every 100 deaths in the general population, only 59 deaths were recorded for the monitored group. The difference is even greater for male vegetarians with only 52 deaths.



However, entirely abstaining from meat consumption does not appear to be the healthiest nutritional lifestyle. Comparison of the three categories suggests that those who occasionally consume meat have an even lower risk of mortality than the other groups. For every 100 deaths among vegans, there were 66 among vegetarians and 60 among occasional meat eaters.




http://www.nutraingr...nger-says-study




But overall, the study suggests, vegetarians live longer. I think the person who wrote the article misinterpreted this fact. or thought it didn't matter that much.

Edited by TheFountain, 04 April 2011 - 03:26 AM.

[scottknl]

You might also have posted many of the studies that say that vegetarians live as long or slightly shorter than meat eaters, but those also have little to do with the diet and lifestyle I follow.

Vegetarians may have a significantly lower risk of mortality than people who eat lots of meat, according to a study at the German Cancer Research Centre (DFKZ).

The study, which aimed to understand the impact of vegetarian nutrition and the connected lifestyle on the risk of mortality, included around 1900 participants. These were divided into vegans (who abstain not only from meat but also from other animal products such as eggs or dairy products), vegetarians (who consume eggs and dairy products but no fish or meat) and moderate vegetarians (occasional meat and fish eaters).



On comparison with the general population, the study revealed a significant increase in life expectancy for the study participants. For every 100 deaths in the general population, only 59 deaths were recorded for the monitored group. The difference is even greater for male vegetarians with only 52 deaths.



However, entirely abstaining from meat consumption does not appear to be the healthiest nutritional lifestyle. Comparison of the three categories suggests that those who occasionally consume meat have an even lower risk of mortality than the other groups. For every 100 deaths among vegans, there were 66 among vegetarians and 60 among occasional meat eaters.




http://www.nutraingr...nger-says-study




But overall, the study suggests, vegetarians live longer. I think the person who wrote the article misinterpreted this fact. or thought it didn't matter that much.

This population evidence for vegans and vegetarians will only become really clear when we have 70 year old vegetarians (veggie baby boomers) that have had access to B12 supplements all their lives. It's really only been the last 20 some years when you could buy B12 and prior to that all vegans were probably shortening their lives a bit.
I wish the studies would control for B12 supplementation and exclude the vegans and vegetarians with low B12 levels, because it really makes eating this way look unhealthy, when the reality is that it works quite well. The birth of the internet in the 1990's made the info about B12 much more available to the public, so that really helped a lot of people adopt healthier diets.