24 replies to this topic

[Soma]

I was wondering if there are any interesting supplement ideas for adult acne beyond the usual recommendations (fish oil, Vit. A, zinc, etc)

I've been thinking about giving calcium d-glucarate a try.

Any other ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks

[iago]

You might look into food allergies. A friend of mine had terrible acne until he was around 30. His doctor discovered that he had a wheat allergy. he stopped consuming wheat, and within a few months the acne was gone (although he was quite severely scarred).

[The Immortalist]

I was wondering if there are any interesting supplement ideas for adult acne beyond the usual recommendations (fish oil, Vit. A, zinc, etc)

I've been thinking about giving calcium d-glucarate a try.

Any other ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks

Starting a keto diet has since improved my mild acne.

[User1000]

I would also recommend checking out the diet first rather than treating the symptoms afterwards. If stress is a problem for you, then try and get that levelled out because I find it also affects my face.

What kind of diet are you currently eating? Maybe post an average day, even if you are not on a particular "Diet", just post some usual foods you eat.

[Sillewater]

Diet (watch the blood sugar spikes, excess omega 6, and maybe the leucine and methionine, which contribute to igf1). Get some retin a and a good sunscreen (check out some of Eva Victoria's threads, apply liberally)

[csoki]

I might have the same problem as the OP.
Although I'm only 24(male) and my doctor is sure that I'm still young and my acne is due to hormones.

My interesting experience was that when I completely stopped having any dairy (I was drinking 0,5-1 liter of milk daily then I went cold turkey) my skin got really dry within a week. It was nearly painful. Then for 2 weeks my skin got much much better. Every scar was healing, no new spots came out... I was fascinated by the change...But 4 weeks after quitting dairy my skin got "rebalanced"... In the next 2 weeks my skin went back the same usual bad state.

After 3 months, I decided to go back having dairy in my diet. On the 5th day after drinking the first glass of milk my acne got worse. I had many painful big, deeply under the skin type of spots. The effect was the opposite from what was after quitting dairy. For 2 weeks my skin was much worse than it used to be in the past, and after that - rebalancing kicked in again - everything went back to normal.


Now I started trying to lower wheat in my diet, but I especially concentrate on flour.
Other thing I started few days ago is to eliminate any refined sugar sources. We'll see if this makes a difference...

And stress is really a factor for me too. A few weeks ago I had an exam and I had some anxiety because of it. Guess what, Significantly more spots came out especially on the day of exam.

[aLurker]

Topical green tea. It actually works pretty good and there are other studies validating the use of it if you look around, although personally I don't really have the patience to wipe my face with a wet teabag each day and trying to avoid staining my clothes. There are probably products that are easier to use than that though. Retin-A also has studies behind it and improves skin quality too.

Also, since people keep mentioning diet:

Does diet really affect acne?
Ferdowsian HR, Levin S.
Source
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Washington, DC, USA.
Abstract
Acne vulgaris has anecdotally been attributed to diet by individuals affected by this skin condition. In a 2009 systematic literature review of 21 observational studies and 6 clinical trials, the association between acne and diet was evaluated. Observational studies, including 2 large controlled prospective trials, reported that cow's milk intake increased acne prevalence and severity. Furthermore, prospective studies, including randomized controlled trials, demonstrated a positive association between a high-glycemic-load diet, hormonal mediators, and acne risk. Based on these findings, there exists convincing data supporting the role of dairy products and high-glycemic-index foods in influencing hormonal and inflammatory factors, which can increase acne prevalence and severity. Studies have been inconclusive regarding the association between acne and other foods.

[Soma]

You might look into food allergies. A friend of mine had terrible acne until he was around 30. His doctor discovered that he had a wheat allergy. he stopped consuming wheat, and within a few months the acne was gone (although he was quite severely scarred).

I was allergy tested a few years ago and it didn't reveal any food allergies. I've cut out wheat/gluten completely for about a year now (thought it may be a trigger nonetheless) with no change.

I don't eat any refined sugar/cane juice, etc and take chromium to help protect against blood sugar spikes.

Edited by Soma, 25 April 2011 - 10:50 AM.

[kismet]

Diet (watch the blood sugar spikes, excess omega 6, and maybe the leucine and methionine, which contribute to igf1). Get some retin a and a good sunscreen (check out some of Eva Victoria's threads, apply liberally)

Sunscreens tend to be very comedogenic & terrible for acne but topical retinoids are indeed a must. (also combined w/ BPO despite its long term risks which are << acne scarring; or short term topical antibiotics) There are so many mildly or potentially effective topicals but at some point you just can't put more of that stuff on your face.

A moderate protein, veg*an CRON diet w/o dairy & perhaps w/o creatine supplementation would be the way to go.

[The Immortalist]

You might look into food allergies. A friend of mine had terrible acne until he was around 30. His doctor discovered that he had a wheat allergy. he stopped consuming wheat, and within a few months the acne was gone (although he was quite severely scarred).

I was allergy tested a few years ago and it didn't reveal any food allergies. I've cut out wheat/gluten completely for about a year now (thought it may be a trigger nonetheless) with no change.

I don't eat any refined sugar/cane juice, etc and take chromium to help protect against blood sugar spikes.

Have you tried accutane or any other acne therapy like laser treatment? If nothing else works you could try those.

Edit: Have you tried lowering the amount of carbs in your diet? I see you've cut out refined stuff but have you tried lowering the amount of grams of carbs you eat a day?

Edited by The Immortalist, 25 April 2011 - 03:47 PM.

[nameless]

I think I read somewhere that certain strains of probiotics might help. And perhaps Lactoferrin too (I think).

Afraid I don't recall the studies, but you can research those. And any supplements that have anti-inflammatory effects could possibly help too.

[Sillewater]

Here's an interesting read on milk (and I link the specific chapter in relation to acne) for those interested: http://books.google....kbN&dq=acne&lr=


I haven't looked at BPO closely but there is an interesting paper I came across looking at the "microbial aetiology of acne" and asking "what is the evidence?" (1).


Photodynamic therapy has been gaining round in Asian countries (2)

I would focus on the diet first and see what results.

Are there non-comedogenic sunscreens? I'm sure if you look around make up alley you can find one, but make sure it has UVA protection if you decide to try retin-a (ala Skin Care section of the forum, e.g. Eva Victoria, Fredrik).

References

1. Br J Dermatol. 2011 Apr 18. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2133.2011.10375.x. [Epub ahead of print]A microbial aetiology of acne-what is the evidence?Shaheen B, Gonzalez M. PMID: 21495996


2. J Cosmet Laser Ther. 2011 Feb;13(1):28-32. Epub 2011 Jan 21.0.5% Liposome-encapsulated 5-aminolevulinic acid (ALA) photodynamic therapy for acne treatment.An JS, Kim JE, Lee DH, Kim BY, Cho S, Kwon IH, Choi WW, Kang SM, Won CH, Chang SE, Lee MW, Choi JH, Moon KC.

[mustardseed41]

Diet (watch the blood sugar spikes, excess omega 6, and maybe the leucine and methionine, which contribute to igf1). Get some retin a and a good sunscreen (check out some of Eva Victoria's threads, apply liberally)

Sunscreens tend to be very comedogenic & terrible for acne but topical retinoids are indeed a must. (also combined w/ BPO despite its long term risks which are << acne scarring; or short term topical antibiotics) There are so many mildly or potentially effective topicals but at some point you just can't put more of that stuff on your face.

A moderate protein, veg*an CRON diet w/o dairy & perhaps w/o creatine supplementation would be the way to go.

That would be many chemical sunscreens. You better be using a quality sunscreen such as zinc oxide while using retinoids. Should use one period.

[kismet]

That would be many chemical sunscreens. You better be using a quality sunscreen such as zinc oxide while using retinoids. Should use one period.

I did not think I would need to explain the obvious. Of course, a skin disease completely trumps petty concerns over long term photoaging. Almost all acne lesions can produce scars. Which disfigures and damages your skin irreparably right now. If you cannot use a sunscreen without aggravating the disease (often the case), you just don't. Retinoids and sun avoidance are plenty in most cases.

It follows per definition that sunscreen will worsen acne in most cases, even if we ignore directly comedogenic preparations: a. you repeatedly apply a thick layer of sunscreen on top of already inflamed, irritated skin (mechanical irritation), b. it is usually one less layer of actual treatments that you could have applied.

(an all-in-one combination of a drug & sunscreen might fly, especially if backed by RCTs)

--
Nameless, what a terrific find! The lactoferrin studies I glanced over are very preliminary, but it really might work from a risk/benefit perspective.

Nutrition. 2010 Sep;26(9):902-9.
Dietary effect of lactoferrin-enriched fermented milk on skin surface lipid and clinical improvement of acne vulgaris.
Kim J, Ko Y, Park YK, Kim NI, Ha WK, Cho Y.
METHODS:

Patients 18 to 30 y of age were randomly assigned to ingest fermented milk with 200 mg of lactoferrin daily (n = 18, lactoferrin group) or fermented milk only (n = 18, placebo group) in a 12-wk, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Acne lesion counts and grade were assessed at monthly visits. The condition of the skin by hydration, sebum and pH, and skin surface lipids was assessed at baseline and 12 wk.
RESULTS:

Acne showed improvement in the lactoferrin group by significant decreases in inflammatory lesion count by 38.6%, total lesion count by 23.1%, and acne grade by 20.3% compared with the placebo group at 12 wk. Furthermore, sebum content in the lactoferrin group was decreased by 31.1% compared with the placebo group. The amount of total skin surface lipids decreased in both groups. However, of the major lipids, amounts of triacylglycerols and free fatty acids decreased in the lactoferrin group, whereas the amount of free fatty acids decreased only in the placebo group. The decreased amount of triacylglycerols in the lactoferrin group was significantly correlated with decreases in serum content, acne lesion counts, and acne grade. No alterations in skin hydration or pH were noted in either group.

Edited by kismet, 27 April 2011 - 09:56 PM.

[Soma]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Much appreciated.

I did not think I would need to explain the obvious. Of course, a skin disease completely trumps petty concerns over long term photoaging. Almost all acne lesions can produce scars. Which disfigures and damages your skin irreparably right now. If you cannot use a sunscreen without aggravating the disease (often the case), you just don't. Retinoids and sun avoidance are plenty in most cases.

Yes, exactly. I have sustained some scarring and seem to be very prone to scarring for some reason.

The lactoferrin studies I glanced over are very preliminary, but it really might work from a risk/benefit perspective.

I tried lactoferrin last year with no change. I thought it looked very promising as well.

There are so many mildly or potentially effective topicals but at some point you just can't put more of that stuff on your face. A moderate protein, veg*an CRON diet w/o dairy & perhaps w/o creatine supplementation would be the way to go.

Yes, topicals tend to work initially and then the effects taper off. My skin is massively sensitive too, so this limits what I can tolerate.

I'll look into creatine. Thanks for the suggestion.

Have you tried accutane or any other acne therapy like laser treatment? If nothing else works you could try those. Have you tried lowering the amount of carbs in your diet? I see you've cut out refined stuff but have you tried lowering the amount of grams of carbs you eat a day?

Accutane can't be prescribed because I have extremely dry skin to begin with. Yes, I have greatly lowered my carb intake for extended periods. Diet modification such as this (carb reduction, calorie restriction, dairy free, gluten free, completely grain free, sugar free, etc) make no change to the acne at all.

Thanks again everyone.

[rubegoldberg]

as justice would have it...


Vitamin C with L-Carnosine Diminish acne scars

[kbal]

I'm 28 years old, tried everything except accutane (possible side effects do not outweigh benefits). Now I use A-retin topical cream, scars can be treated with TCA cross. You can get both online & do it at home. And I think those two are the best (price/effectiveness/side effects).

[EMP]

Surprised vitamin b5 isn't mentioned yet. I have tried it (5g a day) for a couple of weeks now and my mild acne has pretty much disappeared. I'm going to increase it to 10 grams a day (not mg's) for a couple of months.

Also, I have heard ALCAR could help, although I do use ALCAR, I don't know whether it's really true.

[kismet]

I tried lactoferrin last year with no change. I thought it looked very promising as well.

I would not expect a discernible difference based on the mentioned study: ~20% only after 12wks is a very, very small effect. However, just like with diet it might be worthwhile based on a risk/benefit evaluation.

I'll look into creatine. Thanks for the suggestion.

...look into avoiding it.

[FadingGlow]

Surprised vitamin b5 isn't mentioned yet. I have tried it (5g a day) for a couple of weeks now and my mild acne has pretty much disappeared. I'm going to increase it to 10 grams a day (not mg's) for a couple of months.

Also, I have heard ALCAR could help, although I do use ALCAR, I don't know whether it's really true.

Have any safety studies been conducted on megadosing B-5? I don't think megadosing of any sort of advisable.

[FadingGlow]

I tried lactoferrin last year with no change. I thought it looked very promising as well.

I would not expect a discernible difference based on the mentioned study: ~20% only after 12wks is a very, very small effect. However, just like with diet it might be worthwhile based on a risk/benefit evaluation.

I'll look into creatine. Thanks for the suggestion.

...look into avoiding it.

Why would creatine cause acne exactly? Sure it can slightly dehydrate...but that should be fixable by simply drinking more water. I don't think creatine directly causes acne. Proof?

[Sillewater]

Why would creatine cause acne exactly? Sure it can slightly dehydrate...but that should be fixable by simply drinking more water. I don't think creatine directly causes acne. Proof?

There was a discussion around a study showing that in Rugby players supplementing creatine, they had higher DHT levels. It also seems to be a claim (bro-science) circulating the bodybuilding field that creatine causes acne (those taking creatine are also taking protein, Rob Thoburn has a great discussion on his blog)

J Eur Acad Dermatol Venereol. 2011 Apr 27. doi: 10.1111/j.1468-3083.2011.04084.x. [Epub ahead of print]Association of thyroid autoimmunity with acne in adult women.Vergou T, Mantzou E, Tseke P, Moustou A, Katsambas A, Alevizaki M, Antoniou C.

Anybody read about this association?

Lactoferrin looks interesting, but can anybody provide studies of why non-acne sufferers should be taking it? Maybe for CR folk and those at risk of decreased bone density:

Biometals. 2010 Jun;23(3):425-30. Epub 2010 Mar 16.Lactoferrin as an effector molecule in the skeleton.Cornish J, Naot D.

[FadingGlow]

Rugby players do not have the same lifestyle as other people, plus they were drinking protein shakes. That study was somewhat flawed.

It has already been proven dairy exaberates acne. Not that it is a cause. Probably the reason for the protein shakes causing acne. I've never ever heard of anyone having troubles with a high-quality whey ISOLATE.

Anywho, protein shakes? That has nothing to do with creatine.

Unless there is actual proof that creatine does in fact cause acne, then please do not portray it as such.

Also, I'm sure everyone here would agree with me when I say, I don't care whatsoever about rumors and/or myths portrayed on bodybuilding forums. A lot of those people are frigging morons.

There is also a big difference between causing something and making it worse. Although, that's a different debate, and not necessarily relevant to this conversation.

[kismet]

Unless there is actual proof that creatine does in fact cause acne, then please do not portray it as such.

If we dealt in proof, this thread would have zero responses. Even if we just use high quality evidence, we'll be left with not much to discuss. (god damn the state of current research!)

Since we are dealing with acne, which can be a very serious condition, the only thing that matters is risk/benefit/$ ratios. For instance, evidence in favour of lactoferrin is terribly weak IMHO, but it looks decent from this POV. Similarly, (high dose) creatine avoidance. I do not think anyone portrayed creatine as something else. The evidence against dairy or high-GI/GL diets isn't particularly robust either.

Sillewater, lactoferrin - I have been wondering why MR takes that stuff for some time! From a few papers I have read: Anti-infectious effects? Very plausible, but apart from H. Pylori I don't think there are any robust RCTs. Anti-cancer? Robust in animal models, weak, preliminary human data AFAIK. Anti-osteoporotic? In vitro/weak models AFAIK. Other useful effects? Why would it be necessarily safe for long term consumption post-weaning? Certainly, it looks much better for CRONies (infection+bones), but is this enough?

Edited by kismet, 08 May 2011 - 09:18 PM.

[FadingGlow]

That's not similar at all. Lactoferin might not of been thoroughly tested as of yet but creatine has been studied for a very long time.

There is literally no evidence that I am aware of showing creatine causes acne. At least spout out a hypothesis as to why it would. Dehydration I already mentioned, but that's easily fixable.

Lactoferrin at least has a valid hypothesis behind it. Basically, what I've heard as towards creatine so far is because it is rumored to do so. That's not acceptable.