19 replies to this topic

[J-88]

I was wanting to try out some curcumin (more specifically Life Extension's Super BIO-Curcumin - 400 mg), but came across some alarming information on the emedtv.com website which kind of implied curcumin had pro hemorrhagic stroke side effects as a possibility. Should I be worried, the exact quote is below?:

In general, curcumin seems unlikely to cause serious side effects.

However, studies on it have been too small to fully evaluate possible side effects, especially rare side effects. Theoretically, curcumin could increase the risk of bleeding, although this has not been reported as a possible side effect of the supplement. Make sure to let your healthcare provider know if you develop any signs of bleeding, such as:

• Easy bruising or cuts that are slow to stop bleeding

• Black, tarry stools; bright-red blood in the stool; or vomiting of blood (signs of gastrointestinal bleeding)

• Signs of a hemorrhagic stroke (bleeding in the brain), such as vision or speech changes, weakness or numbness
in an arm or leg, or a severe headache.

It's the last bullet point which scares me, am I safe to ignore this or should I pay attention to it? Would a vitamin K2 supplement negate any of this risk or is that a pointless idea?

Kind regards,

James

[hav]

Was curious about that myself. Here's what I found on MedlinePlus mentioned relative to that possible issue with Tumeric which I think also applies to Curcumin:

Medications that slow blood clotting (Anticoagulant / Antiplatelet drugs)
Turmeric might slow blood clotting. Taking turmeric along with medications that also slow clotting might increase the chances of bruising and bleeding.

Some medications that slow blood clotting include aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix), diclofenac (Voltaren, Cataflam, others), ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, others), naproxen (Anaprox, Naprosyn, others), dalteparin (Fragmin), enoxaparin (Lovenox), heparin, warfarin (Coumadin), and others.

Herbs and supplements that might slow blood clotting
Turmeric might slow blood clotting. Taking turmeric along with herbs that also slow clotting might increase the chances of bruising and bleeding. These herbs include angelica, clove, danshen, garlic, ginger, ginkgo, Panax ginseng, red clover, willow, and others.

I take it you should use at least the same caution with Curcumin that you would use with asprin.

Howard

[Adaptogen]

is there actually a substantial risk from this? is it dangerous combining supplements like garlic, ginger, fish oil, and curcumin?

[Dorian Grey]

I take Curcumin (the LEF Bio) and vitamin-E in rather large doses... Have seen a lot about the bleeding risk in E, but this is the first I've heard about Curcumin.

All I know on the matter is, I don't bruise at all, gums don't bleed when I brush my teeth, shaving nicks don't hemorrhage, and haven't had any brain bleeds, rectal or vomiting of blood either.

My girlfriend on the other hand frequently needs to take an aspirin product for her headaches... Never more than 1 per day a few times a week, and she bruises and bleeds at the drop of a hat. With all the kerfuffle about bleeding risk with vitamins/herbals, I would think there would be doctors running through the streets in a panic over the low dose aspirin being prescribed to the masses.

Aspirin causes bleeding, even at very low doses... Herbals and vitamins, not so much. Much ado about (next to) nothing if you ask me. The vast majority of strokes are caused by blood clots rather than bleeds anyway. I'll take my chances with thin blood over thick any day.

Edited by synesthesia, 24 February 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[FrankEd]

Please see below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2527619/

[Kevnzworld]

I think one should be cautious when combining supplements with blood thinning effects. Curcumin is a mild anticoagulant. Aspirin is an anti platelet drug. The bioavailability of curcumin is relatively low. I discontinued using curcumin for a brief period many years ago when I was on Coumadin. ( DVT,PE ). I have been taking 400 -800 mg daily since without a problem. It hasn't effected my fibrinogen level which is mildly elevated.
" Anticoagulant activities of curcumin and its derivative "
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22531131

[renfr]

Just avoid taking it with these :
- Ginkgo, garlic, ginseng
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin E
- Vitamin D
- Fish oil
- MSM
- Aspirin, warfarin, coumadin, etc...

There should be no risk at normal doses, if this scares you take some vitamin K along with it

[Dorian Grey]

Good point on mixing supplements with mild anticoagulant properties with prescription blood thinners...

Important also to consider the profoundly greater effect of drugs like Coumadin/warfarin, Plavix and even low dose aspirin, which are widely prescribed/advised in adult populations, with the minimal anticoagulant effect of many supplements.

People howl about the dangers of blood thinning supplements, but compared to the big-guns anti-coags, which are remarkably popular in adult medicine, blood thinning from supplements is small potatoes.

At 56 years old, I err on the side of caution, avoiding aspirin and big guns anti-coags, while embracing the mild blood thinning effect of Curcumin and vitamin-E.

Edited by synesthesia, 24 February 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

Just avoid taking it with these :
- Ginkgo, garlic, ginseng
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin E
- Vitamin D
- Fish oil
- MSM
- Aspirin, warfarin, coumadin, etc...

There should be no risk at normal doses, if this scares you take some vitamin K along with it

There are no contraindications with curcumin and any of the substances you posted except for possibly warfarin ( Coumadin ), plavix, and other prescription anticoagulants.
Vitamin D , C , MSM are not blood thinners. Even fish oil and E are only mildly so.
Mildly thinner blood is healthier.

Edited by Kevnzworld, 24 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[renfr]

MSM is definetely a blood thinner overall at high doses and if used chronically at more than 3g/day.
Fish oil is a weak blood thinner but if you plan on taking huge doses it's effect might be enhanced.
Vitamin E is a known blood thinner as well as vitamin C or D, E being the strongest.
Last but not least, everyone's chemistry is different and blood thinning might be higher or lower in some people either naturally or because their diet are for example poor in vitamin K.
It wouldn't be very reasonable to take all of these at once with curcumin as we can't accuratly assess the risk of hemorraghe.
All these supplements alone have surely a low blood thinning power compared to Warfarin

[renfr]

MSM is definetely a blood thinner overall at high doses and if used chronically at more than 3g/day.
Fish oil is a weak blood thinner but if you plan on taking huge doses it's effect might be enhanced.
Vitamin E is a known blood thinner as well as vitamin C or D, E being the strongest.
Last but not least, everyone's chemistry is different and blood thinning might be higher or lower in some people either naturally or because their diet are for example poor in vitamin K.
It wouldn't be very reasonable to take all of these at once with curcumin as we can't accuratly assess the risk of hemorraghe.
All these supplements alone have surely a low blood thinning power compared to Warfarin or Ibuprofen but if you combine them it may reach dangerous levels with curcumin supplementation overall at high doses.
There has been report of fatal cerebral hemorraghe after someone took ginkgo and ibuprofen.
Usually excessive blood thinning can be seen from the skin.

[Kevnzworld]

Vitamin E is a known blood thinner as well as vitamin C or D, E being the strongest.
It wouldn't be very reasonable to take all of these at once with curcumin as we can't accuratly assess the risk of hemorraghe.

Can you provide evidence that vitamin C or D are blood thinners. Also I have never seen evidence that taking any of these supplements in conjunction have produced " hemorrhagic " effects in anyone not on blood thinning medications.
This seems overly alarmist without supporting data to back it up.
Millions of people take fish oil, vitamin E, C ,D , MSM with few adverse reactions reported in US government studies of emergency room admissions and poison control centers.
Surgeons advise discontinuing the use of any supplement that's even suspected of thinning blood, but that's not evidence that they do.

Edited by Kevnzworld, 24 February 2013 - 06:54 PM.

[zorba990]

I take Curcumin (the LEF Bio) and vitamin-E in rather large doses... Have seen a lot about the bleeding risk in E, but this is the first I've heard about Curcumin.

All I know on the matter is, I don't bruise at all, gums don't bleed when I brush my teeth, shaving nicks don't hemorrhage, and haven't had any brain bleeds, rectal or vomiting of blood either.

My girlfriend on the other hand frequently needs to take an aspirin product for her headaches... Never more than 1 per day a few times a week, and she bruises and bleeds at the drop of a hat. With all the kerfuffle about bleeding risk with vitamins/herbals, I would think there would be doctors running through the streets in a panic over the low dose aspirin being prescribed to the masses.

Aspirin causes bleeding, even at very low doses... Herbals and vitamins, not so much. Much ado about (next to) nothing if you ask me. The vast majority of strokes are caused by blood clots rather than bleeds anyway. I'll take my chances with thin blood over thick any day.

Agreed. I take 2400IU vitamin E a day (mostly mixed tocopherols) and curcumin and resveratrol and fish oil! No bleeding problems at all. In fact the only time I had excessive bruising was when taking enzymes to combat inflammation from an injury (won't do that again). Of course I take high dose vitamin E and bioflavanoids (rutin) as well.

Edited by zorba990, 24 February 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[renfr]

Vitamin E is a known blood thinner as well as vitamin C or D, E being the strongest.
It wouldn't be very reasonable to take all of these at once with curcumin as we can't accuratly assess the risk of hemorraghe.

Can you provide evidence that vitamin C or D are blood thinners. Also I have never seen evidence that taking any of these supplements in conjunction have produced " hemorrhagic " effects in anyone not on blood thinning medications.
This seems overly alarmist without supporting data to back it up.
Millions of people take fish oil, vitamin E, C ,D , MSM with few adverse reactions reported in US government studies of emergency room admissions and poison control centers.
Surgeons advise discontinuing the use of any supplement that's even suspected of thinning blood, but that's not evidence that they do.

Hum, I have probably this written too fast, vitamin D and C are not blood thinners but the contrary of it (coagulants).
People don't have adverse reactions when mixing these, obviously, but this can start becoming dangerous if you're planning on megadosing these, I'm talking of MSM, FIsh oil that are sometimes megadosed.
I have myself taken up to 10g MSM with lots of fish oil and had a slighter incidence of bruises, I was certainly not near from getting a cerebral hemorraghe but caution should still be advised overall in elderly people.
Concerning ginkgo, I have also found reports of ceberal hemorraghe due to use of ginkgo with some vitamins and no other medication : http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1490168/
The case seemed to be especially reactive to blood thinners, that's why caution should be advised because we don't have the same coagulation.
Surgeons suggest to discontinue 2 weeks before surgery and that is normal.
I'm not being alarmist but just telling that you should be careful if you combine several weak blood thinners at once if they're excedding common dosage, I take personnaly vitamin E, fish oil, ginkgo daily and no problems so far.

[xEva]

In my experience, this is dosage-dependent. I have to take 5+ g of curcumin daily, for a few days on a row, and combine it with coconut oil and allicin, to finally start bruising. Nothing of the sort happens with 1-2g a day.

[medievil]

Are there any supplements that can protect against bleedings?

[Kevnzworld]

Are there any supplements that can protect against bleedings?

Vitamin K is used to increase coagulation in people that take too much Coumadin.

[medievil]

Is strengtening veins a possible reliable approuch?

[osris]

Just avoid taking it with these :
- Ginkgo, garlic, ginseng
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin E
- Vitamin D
- Fish oil
- MSM
- Aspirin, warfarin, coumadin, etc...

There should be no risk at normal doses, if this scares you take some vitamin K along with it

 

When it comes to taking turmeric along with vitamin C and vitamin D, there is no known direct interaction between these substances. No interactions have been reported between turmeric and vitamin C or turmeric and vitamin D specifically. Therefore, it is generally considered safe to take turmeric while also taking vitamin C and vitamin D.

[osris]

MSM is definetely a blood thinner overall at high doses and if used chronically at more than 3g/day.
Fish oil is a weak blood thinner but if you plan on taking huge doses it's effect might be enhanced.
Vitamin E is a known blood thinner as well as vitamin C or D, E being the strongest.
Last but not least, everyone's chemistry is different and blood thinning might be higher or lower in some people either naturally or because their diet are for example poor in vitamin K.
It wouldn't be very reasonable to take all of these at once with curcumin as we can't accuratly assess the risk of hemorraghe.
All these supplements alone have surely a low blood thinning power compared to Warfarin

 

There is no clear evidence to suggest that MSM acts as a blood thinner.