10 replies to this topic

[Rick54]

I've looked at the coming ice age over the past several months. It appears to me that it interrupts cryonics reanimation scenarios. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Rick54]

34 views so far and not one in 34 has noted this?

[Rick54]

77 views so far and zero response... so it seems Imminst members are readers, not talkers. Well, Socratic dialog goes a long way but short of that I guess I just post a link to where I'm working on the ice age/ reanimation connection and forget about having a conversation here. Here's a little advice for the immortalists--> you might be alive a long time... learn to converse. It could be fun.

Since you all want to be lazy and just read, read this....

http://www.iceagecryonics.blogspot.com

I note that very few threads have any participation here. A forum is supposed to be more than that.

[Rick54]

155 view and not one response. What is it with this place? Geez. In any case, check

http://www.iceagecryonics.blogspot.com for my position on this issue.

Edited by Rick54, 13 September 2011 - 04:55 AM.

[Link]

I don't really have an opinion on this but I'm bored and you seem desperate for a response so here goes.

I pointed out to cryonicists that the coming ice age is going to present a problem to smooth technological upgrades leading to reanimation and they've ignored or ridiculed me.

Why are you so certain there is going to be an ice age in the next few centuries? And why do you think that it would affect technology progression? Your position is not very clearly explained.

Besides even if you are correct, what makes you think that a frozen person cares about how fast technology progresses (within reason) it's not like they are concious of the amount of time that has past. And even if they did care about a coming ice age what are they supposed to do about it?

[maxwatt]

We are not heading into a new ice age except perhaps on a geological timescale. The cause of the ice age cycles in the last few million years is now well understood, and the cycles of earth's tilt, orbital eccentricity and solar output are not aligned for global cooling. See below.

The disruptions to technological civilization that will be caused by increasing CO2 concentrations, melting polar ice, rising oceans, and peak oil are more pressing concerns.

You have given me an idea for a sci-fi story of a dystopian future: the remaining electrical power civilization is able to produce, goes into maintaining the cry-vaults. The protagonist infiltrates the quasi-religious order maintaining the vaults, with the goal of 'liberating' power for the well-being of the average person, only to discover the vaults are being used as a source of food, and it is necessary to keep the supply frozen to forestall an imminent famine....

According to ice cores from Antarctica, the past 400,000 years have been dominated by glacials, also known as ice ages, that last about 100,000. These glacials have been punctuated by interglacials, short warm periods which typically last 11,500 years. Figure 1 below shows how temperatures in Antarctica changed over this period. Because our current interglacial (the Holocene) has already lasted approximately 12,000 years, it has led some to claim that a new ice age is imminent. Is this a valid claim?



it is necessary to understand what has caused the shifts between ice ages and interglacials during this period. The cycle appears to be a response to changes in the Earth’s orbit and tilt, which affect the amount of summer sunlight reaching the northern hemisphere. When this amount declines, the rate of summer melt declines and the ice sheets begin to grow. In turn, this increases the amount of sunlight reflected back into space, increasing (or amplifying) the cooling trend. Eventually a new ice age emerges and lasts for about 100,000 years.
So what are today’s conditions like? Changes in both the orbit and tilt of the Earth do indeed indicate that the Earth should be cooling. However, two reasons explain why an ice age is unlikely:

• These two factors, orbit and tilt, are weak and are not acting within the same timescale – they are out of phase by about 10,000 years. This means that their combined effect would probably be too weak to trigger an ice age. You have to go back 430,000 years to find an interglacial with similar conditions, and this interglacial lasted about 30,000 years.
• The warming effect from CO2 and other greenhouse gases is greater than the cooling effect expected from natural factors. Without human interference, the Earth’s orbit and tilt, a slight decline in solar output since the 1950s and volcanic activity would have led to global cooling. Yet global temperatures are definitely on the rise.

It can therefore be concluded that with CO2 concentrations set to continue to rise, a return to ice age conditions seems very unlikely. Instead, temperatures are increasing and this increase may come at a considerable cost with few or no benefits.

[Rick54]

Did you look at http://www.iceagecry...s.blogspot.com? It's all explained there. That's why I posted the link. The cryopreserved person will NEVER be rescued if an ice age is imminent soon. Civilization will collapse and mankind could be extinguished. There will be no progress. Earth will be a snowball. We can do something about it only if we think about what to do starting now. Saving the planet from global cooling could entail harnessing the ionosphere. If we do that, we can save cryonics and civilization.

[Rick54]

We're descending into an ice age now. The 12,000 year warm period is over. We're 500 years overdue. See http://www.iceagenow.com.

There is no increase in CO2. It's the opposite. We're at all time lows for CO2. There's no such thing as peak oil. If polar ice is melting, its due to global cooling. No kidding. I'm not joking. I can explain.

Forget infantile scifi and get down to reality. If you two guys are the only ones on imminst.org to respond to the ice age warning... and in this way... then imminst.org is in intellectual trouble. See http://www.iceagecry...s.blogspot.com. I'm posting ideas there for cryonicists as a public service. There is no debate, really, about the ice age descending on us right now, leading to mass starvation soon. You're all out of the loop in imminst.org and I simply offered to give you all a heads up.

[JLL]

"Except perhaps on a geological timescale"... uh, what other timescales are there when it comes to ice ages?

[Link]

If you two guys are the only ones on imminst.org to respond to the ice age warning... and in this way... then imminst.org is in intellectual trouble.

I love it.

[robomoon]

If magnetic changes in the polar regions and a resulting ice age could become a seriously great risk to modern humanity, then there must be an often overlooked explanation: modern humans are less fit for survival but hunters and gatherers who lived during the stone age. This must be considered a very serious flaw in human development and use of intelligence.

The more of the very great risks are being confirmed as plausible, the more it is time to act against the most harmful consequences. To establish higher security measures, something that we might call BEP (Biosphere Escape Priorities) must be quickly established. Time for the extension of lifespans is running short.

BEP are urgently required to consider an experimental living sphere in a submarine habitat on the sea floor. Top priorities could be: breathable air, drinking, food, and a sleeping place for a core group of approx. three families.

Earth, including its sufficiently intact biosphere for living humans, must be considered a planet with a highly endangered biosphere. A misguided experiment with reproducing nano machines or war with many very powerful weapons of the whole ABC category range could turn into a disaster leaving the biosphere no longer sufficiently intact for humans. Nuclear winter during an ice age seems so destructive that the biosphere would be no longer intact enough for humans and the survival of their procreating descendants.

Particle physics experiments might call out human survival ability even more. A collision of protons may lead to a delayed chain reaction on molecular matter with a fatal outcome -probably after decades of undetectable subatomic changes- when Earth is getting so destroyed that no place in the inner space of its biosphere remains habitable.

After all, the best chance to keep priorities in line with risks will be to keep some submarine habitats so compact that a replication of one could be evacuated to outer space. Even during an ice age, the Guiana Space Centre http://en.wikipedia....na_Space_Centre, located approximately 500 kilometers north of the equator, could be a useful starting point for space transportation.

Edited by robomoon, 07 October 2011 - 04:05 PM.