2626 replies to this topic

[xsiv1]

Just got my Peak ATP in yesterday and intend on taking one this afternoon. The label states to take one in the morning and one in the evening. I'm wondering if anyone has insight as to when would be the most optimum time to take it if I'm taking the CILTEP stack at 7am each morning? Here's some information on it:


Supplement Facts

Serving Size 1 Softgel Amount Per Serving % Daily Value PEAK ATP® Adenosine5’-Triphosphate Disodium 125 mg *


A patented nutraceutical energizer that boosts physical vitality
It's the only patented oral ATP supplement that has demonstrated its effectiveness
Can elevate the body's intra- and extracellular ATP levels
Need a pick-me-up? There's a new dietary supplement that delivers the exact molecule that the body needs to create energy. It's called PEAK ATP and its the only patented oral ATP supplement that's been demonstrated to increase overall energy levels, reduce fatigue and support cardiovascular health. Developed after decades of research by one of the world's foremost authorities on ATP, Dr. Eliezer Rapaport, PEAK ATP can elevate the body's intracellular and extracellular ATP levels, making it effective for a variety of physiological functions.

http://www.swansonvi...125-mg-60-sgels

Edit: I should reiterate that I've been trying different pick-me ups when that 2pm fatigue/amotivation sets in. I have nutritious and rather light lunches but could probably add some more low-glycemic carbs to my diet. I'm currently cutting some weight so I'm eating more of a protein/good fat based diet with small palm-size portions of any carbohydrate per meal. Train 5-6 days a week. I was using NALT at 350mgs around this time with success albeit at the occasional cost of fragmenting sleep. Sulbutiamine yesterday at 600mgs (first time I've dosed that high since 400 was doing nothing) had no discernible effect on me energy-wise but did mess with my sleep last night. It felt like I didn't actually sleep deeply until 1:50am and then I slept soundly until 6:30am) My intent is to mix things up so I'm giving this Peak ATP a try but more curious if any of you think the addition of one cap with CILTEP may be contraindicated in some way in terms of intended effects. I keep a rather detailed supplement log with notations on mood, anxiety, focus, energy and lastly sleep)

Edited by xsiv1, 05 April 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

You would probably have better luck increasing your ATP production with Cordyceps.

[norepinephrine]

Why not use creatine, given how cheap and ubiquitous it is?

[xsiv1]

Why not use creatine, given how cheap and ubiquitous it is?

Creatine is in my plan..soon. I'm starting a short PH stack with the necessary PCT compounds, liver support supps..etc... and creatine will be used throughout. I use to be into bodybuilding (hobby-wise) and that was some time ago. I fell out of it for a while and let myself go..strangely enough right after I got married lol. At 40, I'm nearly in the best shape in my life so I intend on showing a bit of my hard work off this summer. CILTEP has given me the focus and energy I need to get things done more efficiently along with some of my other nootropics that I mix up cyclically.

I tried the Peak ATP today around the time I intended and I cannot say it wasn't a placebo effect - however, I did not feel any fatigue at all. Nothing. I came home from work and ran for 25 minutes on the treadmill, 25 on the bike and did back with some decent weights and shorter rest periods (for a 40 year old). Kept moving until about 8:30 when we put the kids down for bed. We'll try it again tomorrow without the CILTEP stack since I take weekends off. I'd like to see if I can replicate the effect with it. I wish I could say it was the ATP for sure but I can say that my daily routine and nutritional intake today hasn't changed. Most every variable that would effect energy levels remained constant. I'll be keeping an eye on the coleus doses with the new higher potency bottle I bought unwittingly.

Edit: Not sure why the multi-quote option isn't working..but as for cordyceps, I have given that a trial in the past and still have an unopened bottle of it. I don't remember having any positive effect from it. Perhaps it was the brand. I may revisit the idea of again and mix it up after this trial. Thanks for the suggestions fellas.

Edited by xsiv1, 06 April 2013 - 01:57 AM.

[norepinephrine]

Just ordered some kanna powder from M&M. Should be here by next week.

[abelard lindsay]

Hey guys. I was ranting over on the Sunifram thread about Zembrin + Forskolin. After taking it every day last week, I started 4 coursera classes, 3 of them late and have finished the quizzes and homeworks for all of them with one programming assignment left. On the downside, I was a bit less productive at work and spent a lot of time day dreaming about getting home and watching lectures, even sneaking in some Khan Academy Chemistry lectures on my phone. I felt a much stronger attraction and capability for big picture creative work then just grinding through day-to-day tasks.

Edit: Removed some excessive raving

Edited by abelard lindsay, 08 April 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[alecnevsky]

Hey guys. I was ranting over on the Sunifram thread about Zembrin + Forskolin. After taking it every day last week, I started 4 coursera classes, 3 of them late and have finished the quizzes and homeworks for all of them with one programming assignment left. I basically spent all my spare time watching lectures and loved it. It's crazy good for studying. Makes studying as addictive as playing an MMO. When combined with a strong 'racetam like Sunifram or Phenylpiracetam, the effects are unreal. On the downside, I was a bit less productive at work and spent a lot of time day dreaming about getting home and watching lectures, even sneaking in some Khan Academy Chemistry lectures on my phone. When this stuff flows effortlessly into the brain learning is like an addictive drug. I felt a much stronger attraction and capability for big picture creative work then just grinding through day-to-day tasks.

Didn't you have exactly same reaction to Forksolin + Artichoke last year? Is there any noticeable difference from forskolin + artichoke baseline?

[abelard lindsay]

Hey guys. I was ranting over on the Sunifram thread...

Didn't you have exactly same reaction to Forksolin + Artichoke last year? Is there any noticeable difference from forskolin + artichoke baseline?

IMHO, I think this is significantly more effective. Don't get me wrong, Artichoke and Forskolin are great but the current Zembrin stack takes it up a notch. Hmm.. Maybe I did develop some amount of tolerance over the last year to Artichoke/Forskolin, especially after the first few months.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 08 April 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

abelard lindsay, can you memorize a list of each; random words, numbers, and foreign words, then see how effective is your reacall after a week or a month?

We'd compare your performance with a control. Might be placebo or just you've learned how to effectively study.

[norepinephrine]

Very excited to receive my kanna after AL's glowing recommendation. Unfortunately, I probably didn't order enough to really play with. What dosage are you guys taking, and does anyone take it sublingually?

[abelard lindsay]

abelard lindsay, can you memorize a list of each; random words, numbers, and foreign words, then see how effective is your reacall after a week or a month?

We'd compare your performance with a control. Might be placebo or just you've learned how to effectively study.

Maybe I'll try it with a list of Spanish vocab words and verb conjugations. I could try memorizing 20 a day for a half an hour on an off day and an on day and see if I remember them the next day.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 08 April 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

abelard lindsay, can you memorize a list of each; random words, numbers, and foreign words, then see how effective is your reacall after a week or a month?

We'd compare your performance with a control. Might be placebo or just you've learned how to effectively study.

Maybe I'll try it with a list of Spanish vocab words. The irregular verb conjugations are good for that kind of thing. I don't want to fill my long term memory up with random words and numbers .

Ok, we can do a study on this compound. All members taking the CILEP stack while on only the CILEP stack would be administered a list of Spanish verbs/words for a 10-20 minute study session. Another control group would take the same test with nothing in their system. I'd say there are at least 10 people taking the CILEP stack which is OK for this test. Another 10 members could just give the 10-20 min learning session. After a week we will test recall from everyone. After a month we would again test recall and record results. Any members who know some memory methods should stand out statistically (showing that maybe a learned memory method was at play rather than CILEP or in the control group), unless everyone knows some mnemonic techniques. What do you think?

Edited by redan, 08 April 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[bobz1lla]

Given magnesium is more or less a requisite for any kind of chronic stimulant use, maybe magnesium taurate would be an ideal form for the stack.

This is the only Mag supp that doesn't give me constant diarrhea. Consider dosing around your Calcium intake, or they will compete for absorption.

[xsiv1]

Given magnesium is more or less a requisite for any kind of chronic stimulant use, maybe magnesium taurate would be an ideal form for the stack.

This is the only Mag supp that doesn't give me constant diarrhea. Consider dosing around your Calcium intake, or they will compete for absorption.

You mean the taurate right? How much magnesium are you taking in per day? Do you spread out your doses or generally around bed? I've had success using Magnesium Bi-Glycinate and my newest fave is Magnesium L-threonate. I just purchased a bottle of Taurinate to try. I normally dose an hour or so before bed like I would ZMA but discontinued ZMA because it contained Magnesium aspartate and zinc aspartate in your most common brands so now I dose my b6, chelated zinc and magnesium together. Question, I know minerals can all compete but I currently don't take any additional calcium except what's found in my diet. Do you take a calcium supplement as well and in what dose? I really have to get a full blood panel done again soon but I've been reading too much calcium isn't good for men. Edit: sorry, was reading about Iron, not calcium.

Edited by xsiv1, 09 April 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

I got some pm'd questions from user "S.Russel" that I thought I'd answer here:

Question #1: Assuming you could hold it down, would Rolipram work better than both Art. Ext. and Quercetin?

Sure, but it's emetic at 0.1/mg per kg. So this is how your rolipram trial will probably turn out.

Roflumilast is a very effective and selective prescription PDE4 inhibitor but it has pretty severe gastrointestinal effects. A forum user tried it and said he couldn't take it after a month. If you read the COPD (Cardio-Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) forums, people can put up with it, but only because it helps relieve the severe lung diseases that it is prescribed for.

Because
Question #2: If it is more potent, and GEBR-7b is 3-10X as strong for improving memory, then thats huge and I really want GEBR-7b instead. How does Zembrin compare in strength to these?

Gerb is neat but do you really want to pay for and mess around with a research chemical that is probably very hard to dose right when Zembrin is so much more easily available, inhibits PDE4 and has been tested on humans already and is extracted from a plant that has been used by indigenous peoples for 100s of years?
http://www.plthomas....udies-published

Zembrin^®, developed by HG&H Pharmaceuticals (Pty) Ltd. (Bryanston, South Africa) and commercialized by P.L. Thomas & Co, Inc. (Morristown, NJ), received the Annual Functional Ingredients Magazine Editor’s Choice Award for Most Sustainable Ingredient at the Engredea show in Anaheim, CA earlier this month. The South African-produced Zembrin^® is an extract of a cultivated elite selection of the indigenous plant Sceletium tortuosum, which for centuries has been used and traded by San hunter-gatherers and Khoi Khoi pastoralists for medicinal, social and spiritual purposes.

...
The results demonstrate safety and tolerability of 8 and 25 mg doses of Zembrin^® in a double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of 37 healthy adults for three months.
...

In case you missed my earlier post on Zembrin:

http://www.def-sa.co...-food-plant.pdf

The extract Sceletium tortuosum Zembrin® was tested at
750g/ml on activity of a panel of phosphodiesterases (Fig. 4).
PDE4 activity was completely inhibited, and that of PDE3 was
reduced by 88% (range 87–89%).The other enzymes were less inhibited: PDE1 by 27% (range 23–32%), PDE2 by 33% (range 30–36%), PDE5 by 29% (range 28–30%), PDE6 by 29% (range 27–31%), PDE7A
by 34%(range 31–37%), PDE8A by 4%(range 2–6%), PDE10A by 49%
(range 48–50%), and PDE11A by 50% (range 46–54%). I

"Completely inhibited" seems good enough as far as I'm concerned.

Question #3: I cant find much science on Zembrin being used with Forskolin, not like GEBR, so I was wondering where I could find more info besides their website. Or are you pretty much pioneering that combo yourself?

I figured this out all on my own. Yup. If you know what you're doing, you can read the experiences and theorizing here and come to your own conclusions and proceed at your own risk of course.

I found an online distributor (EMDmillipore)that sells GEBR-7b. It comes in dry ice and you have to keep it frozen. Im liking this substance already! My doseage would be about .2 mg oral (based on a .003mg/kg optimal dose in mice) and its in a semi-solid state so that seems like it could pose an issuse considering you would have to thaw the 5mg chunk you get(for $99) to measure it out. Im not sure this is practial, but it could be done if it does not degrade very quickly once thawed. Also I wonder what sub compounds it would eventually degrade into....

IMHO, does not sound worth it at all. Way too complicated and expensive compared to Zembrin, or Artichoke.

Question #4 So I was wondering what you know about the purchase and doseage problems of GEBR-7b are today
Question #5 I see that GEBR is only reported in animal testing. Is there any record/interest of human testing for this compound? How do you feel about its saftey compared to Zembrin (which looks like it has human approval)?

Finally, I was looking on the site that has GEBR and they have Forskolin in a few very pure and expensive forms. They have a Forskolin Dihydrochloride that "has greater stability and water solubility than the parent compound." among other things. Its super expensive at $240 for 5mg ! My last question would be what do you know about these more expensive almost pure Forskolin varients? This same site sells what I'd assume is similar to the stuff you get for $.25 a cap - Forskolin (Coleus Forskohlii) - for $100+ per 10mg !

GERB is a research chemical that requires special handling and Zembrin is in a nice bottle of 60 caps you can order from a number of different supplement vendors. I have been throughly impressed with Zembrin and with Sunifram or Phenylpiracetam it's probably the best nootropic stack I've ever used, so I would really not bother with GERB. As far as forskolin goes, I take "Better Body Sports" "C-Bolic" which is 95% forskolin. The capsules are 750mg and contain 25mg of forskolin so I empty them out and then dose 150mg for 5mg of forskolin. It's as simple as that.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 April 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[alecnevsky]

I cycled off CILTEP for 2-3 weeks (due to some major fatigue) and combined it with 15mg Sunifiram and 100mg PP and ~ 200mg coffee today around 5pm and it's been going prettttay good i.e., deadlines will likely be met tonight. Usually I'd do Armo instead of PP however. Still not sure whether PP stacks up to Armo.

[abelard lindsay]

I cycled off CILTEP for 2-3 weeks (due to some major fatigue) and combined it with 15mg Sunifiram and 100mg PP and ~ 200mg coffee today around 5pm and it's been going prettttay good i.e., deadlines will likely be met tonight. Usually I'd do Armo instead of PP however. Still not sure whether PP stacks up to Armo.

I took Sunifram along with Zembrin/Ciltep last night when working on the Coursera Algorithm's II project 1 (Wordnet). I finished it in 4 hours and it was pretty easy. Maybe I'm just good at this but I felt like I was in a flow state the whole time. It was pretty effortless.

[MikeMMK1990@gmail.com]

So the preferred form of sceletium tortuosum is from this site: http://www.vitasprin...CFQxxQgodxGYA-Q

rather than the mood and mind brand? http://www.amazon.co...&keywords=kanna

Are there any other sites that sell this that are credible? I've found a couple of bulk powders of fermented Kanna but not sure if they're trustworthy (how pure the extract is)

http://compare.ebay....&cbt=y&bigimg=y
http://compare.ebay....&cbt=y&bigimg=y
http://compare.ebay....&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y

[S. Russell]

Nice one! Thanks a million for your time and response. That answers a whole chunk of my questions. "Completly Inhibited" sounds close enough for me too! Looks like I can forget about GERB except for a few things

1.) I see that Zembrin inhibits PDE3 by 88% as well as lots of other PDE by signifigant amounts. In the long version of the study on GEBR I see that it seems to be VERY specific to its action on PDE4B although it does not go into detail on the exact PDE3 or other PDEs inhibition rate. I just wonder if its very specialized action will be somehow "cleaner" and "leave more room" for other nootropics to do their thing by it doing less (only what it is narrowly designed to do). I don't know enough about PDE3 and other PDE effects to declare if would be a plus or not.

2.) I wouldn't mind trying the hard to deal with expensive research chemical GERB-7b if it had an advantage. At least one go at 25 high effective doses for $99 or $2.50 each. In the studys for Zembrin they didn't seem to get into memory boosting or exact cAMP % increases like in the very comprehensive GEBR studys. In the GEBR study they sampled something like 7 groups of mice for the tests and they all had very real results with no side effects whatsoever (not that they tested for everything). 40% increase in cAMP and very real memory results as well. Zembrin seems to focus on mood improvement results only and I'd think if it helped memory the way that GERB does (on NORMAL mice none the less), then they would start a few studys of their own to prove it as well and start making some realy money selling it as study aid. Or does the fact that they don't have a patent and someone could just steal the formula make it not worth the investment. I do not know how that works.

3.) Are those memory improvements from GEBR the result of just the PDE4 inhibition? Is that the sole cause of GERB increasing cAMP by 40% or is there something else going on in GEBR that acts to acheive these results.

4.) All these studys are with GERB or Zembrin taken alone. Could GEBR-7b work better with Forskolin than Zembrin or would the synergy be the same with both drugs.

I want to beleive that Zembrin is as good as GEBR but I just love the hard data on GEBR-7b that states marked memory improvement and am almost willing to try it because its a bigger tangible/repeatable gain in memory (my main concern) than anything I've seen so far. If I did would you say it would probably be safe? If no humans have tried it is sounds like it could have some real potential that we just don't know ablout yet...

Or I could start bleeding out of my ears...

"Is that normal?" "What?" "Blood coming out of your ears... is that normal?" -Primer

Edited by S. Russell, 09 April 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[bobz1lla]

Given magnesium is more or less a requisite for any kind of chronic stimulant use, maybe magnesium taurate would be an ideal form for the stack.

This is the only Mag supp that doesn't give me constant diarrhea. Consider dosing around your Calcium intake, or they will compete for absorption.

You mean the taurate right? How much magnesium are you taking in per day? Do you spread out your doses or generally around bed? I've had success using Magnesium Bi-Glycinate and my newest fave is Magnesium L-threonate. I just purchased a bottle of Taurinate to try. I normally dose an hour or so before bed like I would ZMA but discontinued ZMA because it contained Magnesium aspartate and zinc aspartate in your most common brands so now I dose my b6, chelated zinc and magnesium together. Question, I know minerals can all compete but I currently don't take any additional calcium except what's found in my diet. Do you take a calcium supplement as well and in what dose? I really have to get a full blood panel done again soon but I've been reading too much calcium isn't good for men. Edit: sorry, was reading about Iron, not calcium.

Yea Mag Taurate. 125mg from CR. Usually 1 or 2 after dinner. Some people get drowsy when taking Mag, depends on the person. Glycinate is popular around here, as is Threonate for its BBB crossing.

I try to get my cereal/milk in the morning, so the calcium/mag don't compete for absorption. I take a small dose of K2(MK4) as a preventative. You might look into it if you are worried about calcium buildup in the body. No extra calcium or iron supps in my diet. I get a good amount of pasture based dairy.

[fenra]

Normal vitamins don't do the trick for me; can only get a complete effect once every perhaps two months of discontinuation (the headache and boners, however, are much more consistent). If anyone like me has found a way to get around the cooldown, please speak up!

Edited by fenra, 09 April 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[medievil]

Could more ppl experiment with sesamin? it really makes me feel on top of my game the times i tried it but may be placebo, would like to see more reports, combined with artichoke.

Even without stims it made a big difference just with cafeine so id like to see this replicated by others, i found it more potent then forskolin.

Edited by medievil, 09 April 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[medievil]

Serotonin increasers should be synergetic because of 5HT4 agonism, i find mdai to be usefull added to the stack.

Had a break of sups and stims as i had other things on my mind togheter with money issues moving country, today restarted part of my stack.

[DamnedOwl]

GERB is a research chemical that requires special handling and Zembrin is in a nice bottle of 60 caps you can order from a number of different supplement vendors. I have been throughly impressed with Zembrin and with Sunifram or Phenylpiracetam it's probably the best nootropic stack I've ever used, so I would really not bother with GERB. As far as forskolin goes, I take "Better Body Sports" "C-Bolic" which is 95% forskolin. The capsules are 75mg and contain 25mg of forskolin so I empty them out and then dose 15mg for 5mg of forskolin. It's as simple as that.

A bottle of the C-Bolic arrived this morning, alongside some artichoke extract and L-Phenylalanine, and I have to say I'm quite intrigued about giving this stack a good go.

One thing I wanted to query though:

The bottle of C-Bolic that I received (from Smart Powders) has the 25mg of Forskolin just as the one you describe does, is also 95% extract too, but the whole capsules weigh an average of 443 mg each, the empty capsules about 70 mg, and so the powder alone (averaged to one capsule) weighing in at about 373 mg - meaning I get a very different ratio to your 1:3 (more like 1:15, in my case).

I don't know if I'm being a complete idiot and missing something obvious (perhaps in dire need of this CILTEP stack), or whether I've simply got a batch with a much weightier quantity of excipients in each capsule.

Anybody else got a similar batch of the C-Bolic?

[abelard lindsay]

The bottle of C-Bolic that I received (from Smart Powders) has the 25mg of Forskolin just as the one you describe does, is also 95% extract too, but the whole capsules weigh an average of 443 mg each, the empty capsules about 70 mg, and so the powder alone (averaged to one capsule) weighing in at about 373 mg - meaning I get a very different ratio to your 1:3 (more like 1:15, in my case).

I don't know if I'm being a complete idiot and missing something obvious (perhaps in dire need of this CILTEP stack), or whether I've simply got a batch with a much weightier quantity of excipients in each capsule.

Anybody else got a similar batch of the C-Bolic?

Hmm... Well I just emptied out a cap and weighed it and it was 750mg. So really it's like 1/30 (750mg/25mg). So 150mg c-bolic is 5mg forskolin (150mg * 1/30). So I've been taking half a mg (15mg) of Forskolin now for a while. I should try increasing that to at least 5mg. You must have gotten smaller pills in your batch wth less filler. Anyway, it's a good idea to weigh out the pills at least once for each bottle you get.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 April 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[DamnedOwl]

Hmm... Well I just emptied out a cap and weighed it and it was 750mg. So really it's like 1/30 (750mg/25mg). So 150mg c-bolic is 5mg forskolin (150mg * 1/30). So I've been taking half a mg (15mg) of Forskolin now for a while. I should try increasing that to at least 5mg I guess. You must have gotten smaller pills in your batch wth less filler. Anyway, it's a good idea to weigh out the pills at least once for each bottle you get.

My capsules are size 1 (just short of 7mm diameter and about 19mm in length).

Sounds like yours might be size 00.

[telight]

Lindsay, where are you getting your Zembrin from? The only places I could find it, it was incredibly expensive.

[abelard lindsay]

Lindsay, where are you getting your Zembrin from? The only places I could find it, it was incredibly expensive.

I am buying it from places I found on Google Shopping. About $40 to $50 per 60 pill bottle + shipping. Kanna and Artichoke are a lot cheaper and do work, just not as well, IMHO.

[xsiv1]

Lindsay, where are you getting your Zembrin from? The only places I could find it, it was incredibly expensive.

I am buying it from places I found on Google Shopping. About $40 to $50 per 60 pill bottle + shipping. Kanna and Artichoke are a lot cheaper and do work, just not as well, IMHO.

Is this the one you're using? http://www.vitasprin...CFQxxQgodxGYA-Q CAUTION: Vitasprings has horrible reviews on Google and Trustpilot. It's best to get the product from iherb since they've been in business for so long they'll refund anything you're not happy with. Some of the reviews on Vitasprings are terrible...referring to fraud, credit card theft etc.

I threw mine out some time ago (before I even heard of CILTEP) because I was concerned that it may interact with my lowish bedtime dose of an SSRI. I'm wondering if I took it in the morning, in place of my Artichoke Extract, with a dopamine precursor and 5-10mgs Coleus if it'd be more effective. How much of the Zembrin are you using in conjunction with the rest of the CILTEP?

EDIT: Nevermind...saw that you updated your first post. Guess I'll stick with artichoke and perhaps take 2 instead of the one that I've grown accustomed to. Thank you AL.

Here's a synapsis of the research with Zembrin presented at a symposium from a local university:

Symposium S2 – 2: Translational study of standardized zembrin extract and mesembrenone targeting pde-4
(phosphodiesterase subtype 4) for regulation of mood and cognition

*Hana Raheb B. A Honors; ;*Yves Bureau PhD Michael Woodbury-Farina MD, Vladimir Badmaev MD PhD
Nigel Gericke MBBS *Kristen Terpstra B. A Honors ; *Simon Chiu MD PhD; *Zack Cernovsky PhD;*Yves Bureau
PhD *J Houicin PhD;.
Department Psychiatry University of Puerto Rico PR USA ## CEO P l Thomas Inc. NJ USA: CEO HGHinc. South
Africa; *Lawson Health Research Institute London, Ont. ;Dept Psychiatry , University of Western Ontario
London Ont. Canada

Joint presentation: *Hana Raheb B. A Honors (Preclinical) * Yves Bureau PhD Michael Woodbury-Farina MD
(clinical)

Background: . There is increased evidence that PDE-4 (Phosphodiesterase subtype-4) plays a crucial role in
regulating memory and affective processes. We identify . Zembrin® ,an extract of Sceletium tortuosum
standardized to mesembrenone and related alkaloids content to behave as PDE-4 modulator..
Objective:: 1) to screen for cognitive effect of, mesembrenone in Fisher-344 rats in Morris Water maze test;;
2)to examine whether Zembrin® extract enhances cognition and regulates mood symptoms ; 3) to evaluate
the safety and tolerability in normal controls.


Method / Results: 1) Preclinical: Fischer rats were administered mesmebrenone 0.1 mg/kg sc,1 mg/kg sc and
saline for 6 days. Primary efficacy outcome was water-maze cell latency with constant platform
arrangement.2) Clinical: Randomized placebo-controlled parallel group cross-over design for 3 weeks: 25 mg
capsule Zembrin and placebo capsule group. VitalSign (neurocognitive battery of test) and HAM-D were
administered. We recruited normal community sample

Results: 1) Preclinical results favoured Mesembrenone at 1 mg/kg and 0.1 mg/kg over the placebo regarding
latency scores.2) Clinical: 21 subjects :male/female ratio 9/12;mean age 54.6 + 6.0 yrs. participated in the
study and well tolerated Zembrin® with no nausea or vomiting. Zembrin extract selectively and significantly
improved cognitive set flexibility and executive function Sleep quality was noted to improve in Zembin treated group. No serious adverse events were noted..

Significance: Our study demonstrated for the first time provide evidence of PDE-4 modulation as a promising
therapeutic target for neurodegenerative disorders:

http://naturalbioact...acts_Part11.pdf

Too bad I'm on an SSRI as this looks like a promising alternative. I've got to ween off this junk since I don't even need it anymore.

Edited by xsiv1, 10 April 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[peakplasma]

There is also the possibility of buying bulk Kanna and just doing an extract.