2626 replies to this topic

[Godof Smallthings]

For those of you with good knowledge of neuroscience, what would be the expected effect of using CILTEP while on a bacopa monnieri regime?

Before bed, and right after waking up, I take
- 2 x 225 mg bacopa monnieri tabs (Planetary Herbals)
- 3 organic spirulina tablets (Natural Origins)
on an empty stomach.

Then I wait for about an hour before having breakfast, with which I take
1 x Jarrow High DHA
1 x Carlsen Salmon oil
1 x Jarrow B Complex
1 x Doctor's Best CoQ10
2.5 - 5 mg lithium orotate
100% daily value of:
Vit A
Vit E
Vit C
1.6 g piracetam

25 mcg selenium
5 mg forskolin (half the contents of one LifeExtension Forskolin capsule)
1-2 Jarrow Artichoke

With lunch I take
1g Carlson salmon oil
1 x magnesium tab
1 x Source Naturals zinc lozenge

Any thoughts on synergy/interaction/side effects?

[Potent]

For those of you with good knowledge of neuroscience, what would be the expected effect of using CILTEP while on a bacopa monnieri regime?

Before bed, and right after waking up, I take
- 2 x 225 mg bacopa monnieri tabs (Planetary Herbals)
- 3 organic spirulina tablets (Natural Origins)
on an empty stomach.

Then I wait for about an hour before having breakfast, with which I take
1 x Jarrow High DHA
1 x Carlsen Salmon oil
1 x Jarrow B Complex
1 x Doctor's Best CoQ10
2.5 - 5 mg lithium orotate
100% daily value of:
Vit A
Vit E
Vit C
1.6 g piracetam

25 mcg selenium
5 mg forskolin (half the contents of one LifeExtension Forskolin capsule)
1-2 Jarrow Artichoke

With lunch I take
1g Carlson salmon oil
1 x magnesium tab
1 x Source Naturals zinc lozenge

Any thoughts on synergy/interaction/side effects?

I've found that bacopa negates the subjective effects of CILTEP. According to Examine, it has an anti-dopamine effect in the straitum, which may account for decreasing CILTEP. That also correlates with the fact that bacopa takes away from the caffeine spike I get from coffee, and caffeine has always boosted CILTEP. However, since you seem to have a tolerance to bacopa, your experience may differ. Try it.

[Potent]

So I've enjoyed CILTEP for some time now. Thanks Abelard. Two things that are annoying are 1. deficit to working memory, and 2. afternoon fatigue.

Afternoon fatigue has been postulated to be due to increased dopamine metabolism. L-phe and NAC has helped with fatigue, and supports that idea.

But I still don't get it on the molecular biology level. Forskolin + Artichoke = cAMP enhancement + PDE4-inhibition, molecular target/enzymes downstream of dopamine receptors. How would this stack lead to an increased "dopamine metabolism?" Does anyone know?

Edited by Potent, 09 September 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[swen]

So I've enjoyed CILTEP for some time now. Thanks Abelard. Two things that are annoying are 1. deficit to working memory, and 2. afternoon fatigue.

Afternoon fatigue has been postulated to be due to increased dopamine metabolism. L-phe and NAC has helped with fatigue, and supports that idea.

But I still don't get it on the molecular biology level. Forskolin + Artichoke = cAMP enhancement + PDE4-inhibition, molecular target/enzymes downstream of dopamine receptors. How would this stack lead to an increased "dopamine metabolism?" Does anyone know?

Did you try ALCAR for working memory?

[cylack]

Try doing N-back games to help improve your working memory. As I have posted earlier, I do N-back every day as a way to track the effects of various CILTEP based stacks.

[prunk]

Reishi has some AChEI activity and it improved my working memory a little. Maybe it goes well with the CILTEP stack..?

[magta39]

Reishi should be ok. 2 mg galantamine works well with forskolin to prevent tiredness from upregulation of ACHE

[channeledfocus]

So I've enjoyed CILTEP for some time now. Thanks Abelard. Two things that are annoying are 1. deficit to working memory, and 2. afternoon fatigue.

can you please elaborate on your working memory issue?

[Potent]

Did you try ALCAR for working memory?

Not yet, though in the past, ALCAR has helped me with energy and A --> B --> C type thinking rather than the critical thinking I'm looking for. ACLAR has also given me mild anxiety at 1 g doses, so I stopped. I will have to try it up again, since abelard has seen an anti-fatigue effect at a 1mg Forskolin:200 mg ALCAR ratio.

Try doing N-back games to help improve your working memory. As I have posted earlier, I do N-back every day as a way to track the effects of various CILTEP based stacks.

Will do, thanks for the suggestion.

can you please elaborate on your working memory issue?

Working memory as in critical thinking and analytical skills. CILTEP is excellent in inducing LTP, where subjectively it feels like my mind is open, and what the lecturer is saying streams through my mind and stays there. However, if the lecturer put me on the spot with a question that required some analysis, it feels harder than the sober state. For example,

Q: what is the treatment for acid reflux? A: triple therapy (proton pump inhibitor, 2 antibiotics). Q: great, what would you want to do before triple therapy? A: uhh, pause for a while. It was endoscopy for H. pylori, the bacteria that often causes acid reflux. I obviously knew that, but I just remembered triple therapy, and forgot to put antibiotics with H. pylori, because if the person had GERD without H.pylori, you wouldn't put them on antibiotics, just the PPI. Dumb example, but it was the only one I could think of. It's just harder to analyze stuff. Noopept helps, but has its side effects for me.

Anyway, as stated, phenylpiracetam is excellent with CILEPT. I also enjoy oxiracetam. No side effects on my end with Zembrin + Artichoke. Also no issues with a bolus 200 mg Hup A dose once every 3 days.

Edited by Potent, 09 September 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[kevers]

Alcar has helped me with energy too.

[Godof Smallthings]

Q: what is the treatment for acid reflux? A: triple therapy (proton pump inhibitor, 2 antibiotics). Q: great, what would you want to do before triple therapy? A: uhh, pause for a while. It was endoscopy for H. pylori, the bacteria that often causes acid reflux. I obviously knew that, but I just remembered triple therapy, and forgot to put antibiotics with H. pylori, because if the person had GERD without H.pylori, you wouldn't put them on antibiotics, just the PPI. Dumb example, but it was the only one I could think of. It's just harder to analyze stuff. Noopept helps, but has its side effects for me.

Are you absolutely sure that it is not noopept that is causing these problems, rather than CiLTEP? Forgetting obvious things is exactly the side effect noopept had on me.

[xsiv1]

I can state that, at least for me, ALCAR has made a very positive effect at eliminating late afternoon fatigue thus far. I'll normally yawn a couple times at around around the 2pm mark and sometimes beforehand. I haven't in the last few days and I've removed NALT for 500mgs of ALCAR first thing in the morning at around 6:45am. Splendid.

[Potent]

Q: what is the treatment for acid reflux? A: triple therapy (proton pump inhibitor, 2 antibiotics). Q: great, what would you want to do before triple therapy? A: uhh, pause for a while. It was endoscopy for H. pylori, the bacteria that often causes acid reflux. I obviously knew that, but I just remembered triple therapy, and forgot to put antibiotics with H. pylori, because if the person had GERD without H.pylori, you wouldn't put them on antibiotics, just the PPI. Dumb example, but it was the only one I could think of. It's just harder to analyze stuff. Noopept helps, but has its side effects for me.

Are you absolutely sure that it is not noopept that is causing these problems, rather than CiLTEP? Forgetting obvious things is exactly the side effect noopept had on me.

Yeah I meant working memory is impaired with CILTEP alone, and that noopept helps with analytical thinking and corrects the deficiency to a slight degree. However, I don't like taking noopept for the same side effect you mentioned, a deficit to short term memory.

[abelard lindsay]

Yeah I meant working memory is impaired with CILTEP alone, and that noopept helps with analytical thinking and corrects the deficiency to a slight degree. However, I don't like taking noopept for the same side effect you mentioned, a deficit to short term memory.

The 1mg forskolin to 200mg ALCAR change really fixed the short-term memory issues for me. I always took ALCAR daily so this issue was hidden from me previously. I started to take the stack by itself and found that my paired associates score on cambridgebrainsciences would tend to fall by a point after taking the stack. When I got up to 200mg ALCAR for each 1mg of Forskolin my paired associates score actually improved by a point.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 11 September 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[xsiv1]

Interesting. That ratio of forskolin to ALCAR would probably prove to be too anxiogenic for me. I'm fine with 5mgs/500mgs once in the morning. I'm not noticing any deficits with my executive functioning including short term memory. At first, before adding ALCAR and instead using NALT with my vitamins in the morning, I did notice that I was easily distracted by others and perhaps even not prioritizing my workload properly. Seems to have resolved since. One of the biggest intervening variables for me is sleep. The quality and duration of sleep the night before, if not ideal - can have a big impact on anything and everything the following day regardless of the supplements I use. I'm really trying to nail down my schedule and get into bed and asleep so that I get 7.5 hrs which seems to be perfect for me. I've lost the ability to really sleep beyond that mark anyways. Anything less and, if cumulatively in some kind of slight nightly deficit, it'll screw things up for me - from focus, energy, mood etc.

[darejz00]

For me this stack is the uncrowned king of all nootropic stacks! The recommended 5mg forskolin, 2x NOW Foods 450mg Artichoke with 500-1000mg ALCAR in the morning with NALT and a cup of coffee in case of afternoon tiredness works perfect for me. I also sometimes add 250mg Uridine with DHA in the afternoon for a positive mood kick.
Could there be any negative effects I haven't noticed yet from the Uridine? Also I wonder what is the general opinion on creatine, could it be beneficial to this stack?

xsiv1, there is some research behind glycine increasing the length and quality of slow wave sleep (which is somewhat responsible for feeling rested in the morning), could be a good add-on to a stack when quality of sleep is an important variable!

[miketunes]

I've been following this thread for quite awhile, I'm ready to finally give it a try. As a newbie maybe some of you can advise me on a few things.

My morning plan (take when waking up):
Zembrin - 1 capsule - 25mg - (African Red Tea Imports - Sceletium Tortuosum)
Forskolin - 1.5 capsules = 5.775 mg (1% Forskohlii Root Extract 385 mg By Solaray)
L-Phenylalanine - 1 capsule - 500 mg (Now foods)
Super B Complex Tablets - 1 tablet - (Nature Made - 2mg B6, 15mcg B12 + Vit C, Thiamon, Riboflavin, ect.)
Caffeine - 1 capsule - 200mg (Prolab Nutrition, I don’t like coffee or tea)
ALCAR - 2 capsules = 1000mg (New Your Vitamins - Acetyl L-Carnitine Cognitive And Physical Performance Acetyl L-Carnitine)
gradual cold shower
skip breakfast (I normally do anyway)

Questions:
L-Phenylananine - should I start with only 250mg or 500mg?

What brand B Complex is recommended - what is the recommended b12 or B6 dosage - it looks like it varies widely on different B complexes, as does the other vitamins included. I typically take a multivitamin in the morning, I'm assuming I shouldn't anymore especially with the B complex?

Forskolin - how’s 1.5 capsules of 1% sound, Is there a brand easier to get closer to 4mg from? If I read correctly the Better body is 25mgx95% = 23.75mg of Forskolin, sounds like that would be hard to split.

I recall reading about starting small and building up, which ingredient does that apply to?

What should I use to monitor my progress, paired associates tests on cambridge briain science or other tests on the site?

[Godof Smallthings]

If I read correctly the Better body is 25mgx95% = 23.75mg of Forskolin, sounds like that would be hard to split.

To make it easy, assume 23.75 = 24 mg.

Then, as per advice earlier in this thread: Open the capsule, empty out the contents and form into a long string of equal width and height. Place a ruler next to the string. Use a credit card or similar to divide the string into 6 equal portions. Each one will be just under 4 g. Put each portion into its own capsule or make small alumin(i)um foil packets.

[xsiv1]

I've been following this thread for quite awhile, I'm ready to finally give it a try. As a newbie maybe some of you can advise me on a few things.

My morning plan (take when waking up):
Zembrin - 1 capsule - 25mg - (African Red Tea Imports - Sceletium Tortuosum)
Forskolin - 1.5 capsules = 5.775 mg (1% Forskohlii Root Extract 385 mg By Solaray)
L-Phenylalanine - 1 capsule - 500 mg (Now foods)
Super B Complex Tablets - 1 tablet - (Nature Made - 2mg B6, 15mcg B12 + Vit C, Thiamon, Riboflavin, ect.)
Caffeine - 1 capsule - 200mg (Prolab Nutrition, I don’t like coffee or tea)
ALCAR - 2 capsules = 1000mg (New Your Vitamins - Acetyl L-Carnitine Cognitive And Physical Performance Acetyl L-Carnitine)
gradual cold shower
skip breakfast (I normally do anyway)

Questions:
L-Phenylananine - should I start with only 250mg or 500mg?

What brand B Complex is recommended - what is the recommended b12 or B6 dosage - it looks like it varies widely on different B complexes, as does the other vitamins included. I typically take a multivitamin in the morning, I'm assuming I shouldn't anymore especially with the B complex?

Forskolin - how’s 1.5 capsules of 1% sound, Is there a brand easier to get closer to 4mg from? If I read correctly the Better body is 25mgx95% = 23.75mg of Forskolin, sounds like that would be hard to split.

I recall reading about starting small and building up, which ingredient does that apply to?

What should I use to monitor my progress, paired associates tests on cambridge briain science or other tests on the site?

I'm unsure of your previous experiences with stims and/or dopamine precursors or ALCAR so if I were to assume that you're a newbie to them all, I'd be slightly more conservative with the ALCAR and caffeine only because it may make you feel a bit on edge instead of what could be when embarking on the regimen. If you do have experience with the aforementioned, you should be good to go and can always go down if you're not enthused with the effect. eg. 500mgs ALCAR over 1G or 150mgs Caffeine over 200 as a start. YYMV anyways. You could always work up to the initially planned amounts within a couple days. Up to you. With the forskolin, I've actually just opened a capsule and kept a quarter of it roughly in one end and then downed it with something to drink. If you want to be concise, surely you can break it up into a line etc etc. For me, I take my supps in the morning and with a young family and everyone getting ready, I don't have the time to be splitting things up unless I've pre-planned it and even then, the last thing I want my wife to walk in and see, is me dividing up equal sized 'rails' before work - or ever fwiw. lolol. She wouldn't even know what the hell Forskolin was and I could forsee the whole explaining the stuff to her..meh. Some things are better left unsaid. I've tried a variety of doses from ranging from 3.5 all the way to 20mgs and have settled on the 5-ish mg mark. Seems to work best. If you get 6 or 4..whatever. I'm not convinced it would make a significant difference.
I don't think you'll need to worry about your B vitamins as long as your getting an adequate amount to allow for the conversion and proper utilization of L-PA. Late into my trials, I've noticed that eliminating the dopamine precursor and swapping it for solely ALCAR led to far less afternoon fatigue or yawning but I can't state this with certainty. Having said that, at times I'll still take NALT on occasion in the mid-afternoon. Your planned stack worked great for the first while (90+days) though so I'm not dissuading you from combining it. It was only recently that I actually began using ALCAR first thing in the morning.

For me this stack is the uncrowned king of all nootropic stacks! The recommended 5mg forskolin, 2x NOW Foods 450mg Artichoke with 500-1000mg ALCAR in the morning with NALT and a cup of coffee in case of afternoon tiredness works perfect for me. I also sometimes add 250mg Uridine with DHA in the afternoon for a positive mood kick.
Could there be any negative effects I haven't noticed yet from the Uridine? Also I wonder what is the general opinion on creatine, could it be beneficial to this stack?

xsiv1, there is some research behind glycine increasing the length and quality of slow wave sleep (which is somewhat responsible for feeling rested in the morning), could be a good add-on to a stack when quality of sleep is an important variable!

Much thanks! I've always known about it but simply forgot to consider it again. After looking at the research on it, it's a seemingly perfect addition to my night time regimen and shouldn't interfere with the Zinc, Magnesium and B6 I take.

[Amby]

Hi everyone

Like others I've been avidly reading the thread over a LONG period and want to give abelard a pat on the back for his pioneering efforts.

I'm about to commit and order the supplies needed. Just double checking though with abelard's latest update including ALCAR in the morning with the stack, does this mean Phenylalanine is still required? I'm cool either way, just want to do the right thing.

Also I'm looking at swapping occasionally between artichoke extract and zembrin depending on how my body and mind responds. Looking through the iherb site there seems to be two options and I'm not sure which one I'm meant to go with:

- African Red Tea Imports, Zembrin, Sceletium Tortuosum, 25 mg, 60 Veggie Caps
- African Red Tea Imports, Rooibos, Unfermented Blend with Sceletium Tortuosum, 1.6 oz (50 g)

I'd provide a link to make it easier but being a new guy here you can't include URLs to prevent spammers (good thing!)

Any help would be greatly appreciated and again a big thanks to all for contributing to this amazing open source project :-)

Cheers!

[Q did it!]

Hi everyone

Like others I've been avidly reading the thread over a LONG period and want to give abelard a pat on the back for his pioneering efforts.

I'm about to commit and order the supplies needed. Just double checking though with abelard's latest update including ALCAR in the morning with the stack, does this mean Phenylalanine is still required? I'm cool either way, just want to do the right thing.

Also I'm looking at swapping occasionally between artichoke extract and zembrin depending on how my body and mind responds. Looking through the iherb site there seems to be two options and I'm not sure which one I'm meant to go with:

- African Red Tea Imports, Zembrin, Sceletium Tortuosum, 25 mg, 60 Veggie Caps
- African Red Tea Imports, Rooibos, Unfermented Blend with Sceletium Tortuosum, 1.6 oz (50 g)

I'd provide a link to make it easier but being a new guy here you can't include URLs to prevent spammers (good thing!)

Any help would be greatly appreciated and again a big thanks to all for contributing to this amazing open source project :-)

Cheers!

They are not the same. Go with the Zimbrin 60x 25mg the second option is not as pure. See below, I wondered the same thing.

I have recently been looking for a bulk source of Zembrin and the best I have found is http://www.organicro...celetium-Powder . In the description it mentions Zembrin but the label does not state just below the picture of the "red tea" Zembrin® as it does on the 60 cap 25mg Zembrin bottles. From what I can tell they are both Zembrin. I may just shoot a message to the company to check.

Edit: They are not the same sadly

Here is the message I received from the company

THE SCELETIUM POWDER IS THE PURE POWDER MADE FROM THE WHOLE CACTUS PLANT
THE ZEMBRIN SCLETIUM EXTRACT 25MG X 60 IS THE PURE EXTRACT FROM THE YELLOW FLOWER OF THE CACTUS THIS IS THE HIGHEST POTENT IT IS IN THE FLOWER

[Amby]

They are not the same. Go with the Zimbrin 60x 25mg the second option is not as pure. See below, I wondered the same thing.

I have recently been looking for a bulk source of Zembrin and the best I have found is http://www.organicro...celetium-Powder . In the description it mentions Zembrin but the label does not state just below the picture of the "red tea" Zembrin® as it does on the 60 cap 25mg Zembrin bottles. From what I can tell they are both Zembrin. I may just shoot a message to the company to check.

Edit: They are not the same sadly

Here is the message I received from the company

THE SCELETIUM POWDER IS THE PURE POWDER MADE FROM THE WHOLE CACTUS PLANT
THE ZEMBRIN SCLETIUM EXTRACT 25MG X 60 IS THE PURE EXTRACT FROM THE YELLOW FLOWER OF THE CACTUS THIS IS THE HIGHEST POTENT IT IS IN THE FLOWER

Thanks Q did it. After reading 63 pages I'd missed that!

[Strangelove]

I have to credit abelard lindsay with the past three weeks of successfully eliminating my ADD/SCT/Low Energy/Low Motivation. Seriously, I don't know why this is such a potent combination, but the artichoke/forskolin combo has had ridiculous benefits for me.

A little over a month ago, I started taking 2-3 capsules/day of Nature's Herbs Artichoke Extract, along with 1-2 capsules/day of Nature's Plus, Herbal Actives, Coleus Forskohlii.

I took them by themselves for a couple weeks. By itself, the combo has an very interesting effect that is hard for me to describe. I don't know if it has to do with increased blood flow to the brain or what, but about 30 minutes after taking the artichoke/forskolin combo, my head feels... different. Less cramped. More open. Kind of like someone opened the windows to my stuffy attic and let the breeze blow in.

I didn't benchmark my results with any quantitative tests, but I did feel "sharper," and noticed increased mental and physical stamina.

However, I was still having major issues with motivation and drive. The only thing that I've ever found to help this has been Adderall. Now, I'm not a fan of Adderall, because of the side effects and long term brain destruction issues. If you want to know more about why I decided to go back on it, you can read through this thread. But I will tell you this: About 2 years ago, I would take 20mg of Adderall IR and it would wear off in about 4 hours with terrible side effects. Not to mention that the side effects would get in the way of me actually doing what I needed to do.

However, I am now taking 5mg of Adderall IR, 5mg of Selegiline, in combination with artichoke/forskolin. The positive effects last nearly all day, with drastically reduced side effects, and a much greater sense of overall well-being. The bp/heart rate is a bit high from the Adderall, but drastically reduced from where it was when I was taking 20mg Adderall, 3 times a day; I take Jiaogulan to reduce it. I still get muscle cramping after a 3-4 hours, but I take Magnesium L-Threonate and it successfully prevents it. I'm still working out some small kinks in the timing and dosage of when to take what. On days that I don't get it right, I get mildly shaky hands for about an hour in the morning, and I notice a bit of a mood decline in the evening. But I should stress that in comparison to the giant list of side effects that I used to have from Adderall alone, the few I have now are not even in the same magnitude, and very tolerable.

I have taken this combination for 3 weeks with great success, and so far, no issues with tolerance. I feel like the Magnesium may have helped prevent this, as well. Days that I have deviated from the regimen (such as skipping the Adderall or Artichoke), I notice a pretty large hit in my ability to get done what I need to do.

I also have some other information to jot about this stack, along with some discussion of other positive synergistic combinations.

I'm nearly afraid that I'm going to find out that this combination is somehow slowly killing me or eating holes in my brain. It works so well where nothing else has. I've gotten so much work done these past few weeks that I have been unable to do for months and months, and I've felt good while doing it! I think clearly, and have a much easier time prioritizing, and then following through with my plans. Not to mention that the tangible benefits I have enjoyed reach beyond the cognitive realm (increased muscle and libido, anyone?).

Hi zrbarnes,

Is this still working for you the way you described it above?

Amphetamines is not my first choice, but I have a ridiculous amount of work/study to do this year.

Any thoughts anyone of potential neurotoxicity of the legal 2-fluoroamphetamine?

http://en.wikipedia....uoroamphetamine

I tried it couple years ago getting through exams, I had better results than adderall with no side effects.

The effects in studying were amazing, very focused and work oriented without overstimulation or euphoria. The very positive with 2-FA was getting easily to sleep 4-5 hours after taking it, something that does not happen from Adderall (from my limited experience and anecdotes).

I have mild ADD and unfortunately I am not getting the full effects from CILTEP that others report.

Edited by Strangelove, 12 September 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Babychris]

I'm using 2-FA with the CILTEP Stack. I'm not very concerned about potential neurotoxicity, In fact I'm pretty sure that it's not much more neurotoxic than adderall excepting some impurities of a non-pharmecitical grade stuff.

CILTEP actually doesn't work very well for me too, making me outspaced, weird so a bit depressive. vis à vis of memory it has some bad effect. I've try to couple it with galantamine but the upset stomach it gave me, hired eventual relief of "side effect".
But 2-FA is always a good plus for the stack since fatigue is a big concern on it.

[stephen_b]

Today's dose went very well: 2 drops dendrobium extract, 1 zembrin, 1 ginkgo, 1 NOW rhodiola, ~1g beta-alanine, 1g alcar. One 16 oz half caf coffee later in the morning. The dendrobium extract has been working well as a forskolin replacement for me; since I take so little my bottle should last over a year. I had strong focus and lots of energy. This was maybe a little more stimulating than I would ideally want, so I plan on cutting back a little.

[abelard lindsay]

Today's dose went very well: 2 drops dendrobium extract, 1 zembrin, 1 ginkgo, 1 NOW rhodiola, ~1g beta-alanine, 1g alcar. One 16 oz half caf coffee later in the morning. The dendrobium extract has been working well as a forskolin replacement for me; since I take so little my bottle should last over a year. I had strong focus and lots of energy. This was maybe a little more stimulating than I would ideally want, so I plan on cutting back a little.

I was unable to find a dendrobium / cAMP link. All I found was

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20717874

In conclusion, DNLA is effective in protecting against LPS-induced brain impairment, and this effect is due, at least in part, to prevent overexpression of TNFR1 via inhibition of p-p38 MAPK and the downstream NF- κB signal pathway.

NF- κB signal pathway.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NF-%CE%BAB#In_neurons

This would seem to have an anti-nootropic effect as it suppresses this pathway that up-regulates BDNF and NGF transcription.

Genes that have NF-κB binding sites are shown to have increased expression following learning,[8] suggesting that the transcriptional targets of NF-κB in the nervous system are important for plasticity. Many NF-κB target genes that may be important for plasticity and learning include, glutamate receptors (AMPA-Rand NMDA-R),[43][44][45][46] growth factors (BDNF, NGF)[47] cytokines (TNF-alpha, TNFR)[48] kinases (PKAc),[39] and synaptic scaffolding proteins (PSD-95).[41]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19577451

The protection against OGD/RP-induced apoptosis appears to be mediated through blocking the decrease in MMP and increase in [Ca(2+)](i), as well as by down-regulating mRNA expression of caspase-3 and caspase-12.

More transcriptional downregulation... So not really comparable to forskolin, IMHO.

[stephen_b]

Today's dose went very well: 2 drops dendrobium extract, 1 zembrin, 1 ginkgo, 1 NOW rhodiola, ~1g beta-alanine, 1g alcar. One 16 oz half caf coffee later in the morning. The dendrobium extract has been working well as a forskolin replacement for me; since I take so little my bottle should last over a year. I had strong focus and lots of energy. This was maybe a little more stimulating than I would ideally want, so I plan on cutting back a little.

I was unable to find a dendrobium / cAMP link. All I found was

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20717874

I first brought it up here along with some other herbals. Here was my thought process:

Some herbals besides forskolin that are reported to raise cAMP are geranium, lavender, and jasmine (PMID 12203263). It appears that the chemical in the herbals that cause the cAMP increase is 1,3-dimethylamylamine (DMAA; longecity thread). DMAA looks to have been banned by the FDA as unsafe. I wonder if dendrobium extract, used in supplements advertised as a DMAA replacement might also have cAMP raising properties.

[nuc]

I'm going to be adding this ciltp stack to my current noopept/oxiracetam/cdp choline/modafinil/sulbutiamine/l-tyrosine/fish oil/b complex/nac/hawthorn berry/cissus quadrangularis/enbosarm stack. I will report back after i get the ingredients...

[xsiv1]

Heh, all at once?

[nuc]

Hell yeah!

Edited by nuc, 13 September 2013 - 10:35 PM.