2626 replies to this topic

[machete234]

Any good shops where I can get this from in Europe Im tired of this customs shit or waiting 2 months or paying lots of money.

Any good shops where I can get this from in Europe Im tired of this customs shit or waiting 2 months or paying lots of money.

[BlueCloud]

I have been using Life Extension brand 10% Forskolin from the very start and it works fine.

Good to hear that. Thanks.

[swen]

My question(s);

- On the website of Smartdrugssmarts is says that you are a computer engineer, so how do you think the CILTEP stack was effecting your skills as computer engineer?

- How you do you think CILTEP and LLTP match up to each other? In regarding learning new skills, ways of thinking etc?

Thanks

In my humble opinion, I've gotten a lot better at my job. It seems I get stuck less stuck on problems and am more adaptable and creative. I can put together larger more comprehensive approaches to problems instead of just sticking to smaller incremental changes. I'm getting my masters in CS right now part time so I too am studying some pretty challenging material. I'd say the best way to study is to read the book and go over the whole process of solving a problem from beginning to end with your notes and then in your head after you've memorized enough of the process. It's basically about building up and strengthening those neuronal networks so that can solve problems in the domain.

I am intrigued by LostFalco's TULIP protocol. I take PQQ and Ubiquinol and I think they go well with the stack. I haven't started doing the whole lasering thing though.

Thanks for you response.

I was already considering to give CILTEP another try, but your reply convinced me

[abelard lindsay]

Hey Abelard, what are your current thoughts on Forskolin with PQQ? I know we talked about it a week or two ago. Were you able to permanently solve the headaches/issues with the combo? I'm interested in possibly using the full CILTEP stack but I still have slight reservations about combining it with some of the other stuff I've been taking (Artichoke works great for me though). You mentioned galantamine as a possible solution, I believe.

I like CILTEP with PQQ + Ubiquinol. IMHO, the secret to forskolin is keeping things less than 4mg. When I add uridine I get some good effects at first but I start to get a low serotonin feeling after a few days which is not good. Thus, I don't recommend adding uridine.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 05 October 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[Bradley]

I've been CILTEP-ing for the better part of 6 months on this:

Zembrin 25mg
Forskolin 9mg
L-Phen 1500mg
Lions Mane 1g
Coffee

So far so good. At the beginning I did notice a significant drag with speed and short-term memory. Made me stop the stack actually. A few weeks later I tried again and added *racetams and Sunifiram around 10:30am, and that's working really well right now.

Thanks Abelard. I hope you get rich. You deserve it man.

Cheers.

[abelard lindsay]

So far so good. At the beginning I did notice a significant drag with speed and short-term memory. Made me stop the stack actually. A few weeks later I tried again and added *racetams and Sunifiram around 10:30am, and that's working really well right now.

Thanks for all the compliments! So what are your *racetams and dosages you are taking at 10:30am?

[xsiv1]

Anyone has tried Artichoke 500 Jarrow Formulas?
My seller on ebay.co.uk has this brand (jarrow) and hasn't NOW, and I prefer don't change seller for several reasons.

What brands for Artichoke extract have you tried?

I am using it right now...its fine.

So, I'm about to embark on the CILTEP experiment. I was wondering, since everyone here seems to be using a 20% extract of Forskolin, would a 10% extract work as well ? it's just that I can buy this one right away from a local store instead of waiting a couple of weeks for my 20% extract to arrive by mail.

I have been using Life Extension brand 10% Forskolin from the very start and it works fine.

Thanks for both the comments: jarrow Artichoke and LEF Forskolin

I use both brands as well. Works great for me and both are reliable.

I take it with my vits/mins and I use Ubiquinol as well. I'm also finding that 5mgs or less of the Forskolin works well enough. Since I've dropped my dopamine precursor (for now), ALCAR has been an amazing addition. I am continuing to use PEAK ATP twice a day. I use it about an hour after dosing my CILTEP stack which is around 7am. At 10:15am, I can use 2200mgs of Piracetam and in the afternoon at around 2pm, I use Aniracetam (750), 10mgs Noopept (with some good fats), a small capsule of citicholine and mix my days up with the last compound of choice: either ALCAR (500mgs), or 200mgs Sulbutiamine or some NALT with a small dose of VitB/C complex. I don't find that adding the aniracetam in the afternoon, in conjunction with the other noots, adversely effects my cognition. By 3pm, I'll take another capsule of Peak ATP, 10mgs NADH and my Methylcobalamin (B12).

It's taken me a while to tweak things mostly because of what I'd call an afternoon slump but I'm no longer experiencing that. I'm always looking forward to my workout as soon as I get home from the office. Some vigorous cardio and weight training just boosts my mood for the rest of the night. The foundation to these benefits I'm experiencing really is CILTEP and that's why I make no qualms about recommending it to others - at least to try. I've found that it's not only improved my memory but even more significantly, my mood. It's really served me well in this area.

I'm curious if others who've been using CILTEP, or any of it's variants, have experienced or noticed positive affect from it's long-term use (60+ days)..

Edited by xsiv1, 06 October 2013 - 02:08 AM.

[Bradley]

So what are your *racetams and dosages you are taking at 10:30am?

Well, I've experimented with a lot of different *racetams and doses. This is what I finally settled on:

Aniracetam 1500mg
Oxiracetam 1000mg

Pretty simple. There's serval awesome things about this stack.

-It goes down well. These racetams do not have a horrible taste like the others. Oxi actually has a really nice, sweet taste.
-I picked Ani for its anti-anxiety properties. Really helps me command the room in meetings without too much hesitation or self consciousness. You have to be patient with it. It takes a week or so of dosing before it really starts to work.
-Oxi is just awesome. My favorite racetam by far. It helps with with creativity, euphoria for music, and writers un-block.

Meanwhile CILTEP is running in the background. Love it.

Cycling seems to be the next thing to figure out. I don't want my brain to depend on these stacks and create a new normal. This is actually a significant concern I have with CILTEP and Noo's in general.

Right now I'm doing a basic weekdays ON, weekends OFF with the racetams.
But the CILTEP I'm still doing every day.

Edited by Bradley, 06 October 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[Bradley]

I'm curious if others who've been using CILTEP, or any of it's variants, have experienced or noticed positive affect from it's long-term use (60+ days)..

In my experience of 6+ months, CILTEP has been quite helpful as a mild anti-depressant. I've never had bad enough depression to be considered clinical and begging for meds; rather it has always been mild enough to be subtlety insidious (arguably a more damaging form of depression in my opinion).

Edited by Bradley, 06 October 2013 - 02:46 AM.

[ken_shiro]

When I add uridine I get some good effects at first but I start to get a low serotonin feeling after a few days which is not good.

Try to take uridine 2-3 times in a week (not consecutively), so you have only the good effect of the first day.

Edited by ken_shiro, 06 October 2013 - 03:21 AM.

[xsiv1]

I'm curious if others who've been using CILTEP, or any of it's variants, have experienced or noticed positive affect from it's long-term use (60+ days)..

In my experience of 6+ months, CILTEP has been quite helpful as a mild anti-depressant. I've never had bad enough depression to be considered clinical and begging for meds; rather it has always been mild enough to be subtlety insidious (arguably a more damaging form of depression in my opinion).

Thanks for the response. I'd like to think I'm similar in that I'm not depressed but have moments where I'm irritable for no concrete reason, and at times, either just flat or bordering on dysphoric. They're all fleeting moments, but have manifested far less since beginning CILTEP.

[magta39]

I think my whole life I have never been able to go more than 2 or 3 days without suffering some form of anxiety and/or depression. But now with CILTEP (or some variation thereof) I feel like I am in control, and pretty much every day is a great day. Big thanks to Abelard and all others here who have contributed.

[row1]

I think my whole life I have never been able to go more than 2 or 3 days without suffering some form of anxiety and/or depression. But now with CILTEP (or some variation thereof) I feel like I am in control, and pretty much every day is a great day. Big thanks to Abelard and all others here who have contributed.

Magta,

Thats sounds very promising

What is the exact dose that you are taking? Wich brand and on what time

Also interesting to read:

http://healthimpactn...brain-function/



for those who are training I also recomend:

http://www.iherb.com...00-g-Each/27093

[Amby]

Some great recent posts everyone! Awesome! Getting late here, so I'll try listening to Abelard's podcast on the way to work tomorrow.

Been about 2 weeks since ordering all my CILTP ingredients. Hoping they clear customs/get here soon!

[Eruditus]

Regarding the use of sceletium tortuosum. I have two full gram vials of x10 kanna extract, which won't actually amount to 20g of kanna but more like 10g. Even though it says x10 alkaloid concentrations, they are actually unlikely to be higher than x5. I know this of experience dealing with other extracts from the online smart shop that they always tend to over exaggerate the potency of their products.

Regardless of that, however I find this extract very valuable as a relaxant in high pressure social situations, which would normally leave me feeling rather tense and akward; e.g. like approaching a girl I don't know for instance. The dose I use to achieve the desired effect is about 20mg which I insufflate for a faster onset of effect. The anxiolytic and empathogen effect lasts for a good hour and half.

My question to you in this regard would be, would it still be a potent PDE 4 inhibitor if used in this manner. And would the inhibition of PDE 4 have a longer duration of efficacy then just the ssri effect alone or would another method of ingestion be required. If so at what dosage then?

[acrunchyfrog]

I thought the SDS podcast with Abelard was great! I'm having great results with Artichoke, CAMP (a concentrated cAMP product from Nutraplanet), L-phenylalanine, Sulbutiamine, and 10 mg of adderall. Anyone else having at luck with adding zembrin in just once or twice a week, say, the day before tests?

[swen]

I thought the SDS podcast with Abelard was great! I'm having great results with Artichoke, CAMP (a concentrated cAMP product from Nutraplanet), L-phenylalanine, Sulbutiamine, and 10 mg of adderall. Anyone else having at luck with adding zembrin in just once or twice a week, say, the day before tests?

How does your stack compare to the "original" CILTEP stack? I'm especially interested if CAMP makes a difference versus the forskolin and the addition of Sulbutiamine.

[Amby]

The stuff arrived today from the States. Will give it a go in the morning and report back on how it went.

[Sholrak]

I know LTP was first discovered in rabbit hippocampus. It's exclusively given there, in the hippocampus? Or maybe into other lymbic system structures (amygdala, dentate gyrus...). I say this 'cos, apart from the said benefits of motivation, learning, social, memory... we all know, I'm starting to see how PTSD is starting to dilute. It's not dissapearing but definitely, it's becoming more manageable each day. It's giving me a good approach to trauma issues and is also diminishing the re-flash aspect and the anxiety related to it. Spatial memory is getting better too. ALCAR plays a role in this improvement for sure.


I'm loving this so much.

Edited by Sholrak, 09 October 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[Nordmann]

So I`m reading physiology and noticed some pages about cAMP. And it basically says “permanent elevated levels of cAMP production will lead to brain tumor, glandula hypophyseos” I`m no expert on judging this, but kinda freaked me out a little, any thoughts?

Edited by Anders Jonassen, 09 October 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

So I`m reading physiology and noticed some pages about cAMP. And it basically says “permanent elevated levels of cAMP production will lead to brain tumor, glandula hypophyseos” I`m no expert on judging this, but kinda freaked me out a little, any thoughts?

Can you look up the citation for that one?

PDE4 inhibiton increases the activity of a large variety of brain cells. With regards to existing pituitary tumors, there is some evidence that their activity can also be increased by rolipram's strong PDE4 inhibiton.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2174276

This compound enhances basal, hormone- and forskolin-elicited cAMP accumulation in prolactin (PRL) producing rat pituitary adenoma (GH4C1) cells in culture (ED50 = 5.10(-8) M)

So if you already have pituitary brain cancer there's some evidence that it's not a good one to take. However, if you have giloblastomas (a brain tumor of the gilial cells) there is some evidence that says Rolipram and Forskolin kill giloblastoma (brain tumor) cells.:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22227470

Phosphodiesterase inhibitors control A172 human glioblastoma cell death through cAMP-mediated activation of protein kinase A and Epac1/Rap1 pathways
...
A172 and U87MG human glioblastoma cells were used.
...
Non-specific PDE inhibitors, isobutylmethylxanthine(IBMX) and theophylline reduce survival percentage of A172 and U87MG cells.
...
Rolipram-treated A172 or U87MG cell survival was lower in the presence of forskolin, adenylate cyclase activator, than that in its absence.
...
Rolipram-induced A172 cell death was also increased by the co-treatment with dbcAMP or CPT, but it was inhibited by the pre-treatment with H-89.

Here's some studies that says raised cAMP kills myeloma (cancer of white blood cells):

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21767374

Cyclic AMP induces apoptosis in multiple myeloma cells and inhibits tumor development in a mouse myeloma model.
...
CONCLUSIONS:
Elevation of intracellular levels of cAMP kills multiple myeloma cells in vitro and inhibits development of multiple myeloma in vivo. This strongly suggests that compounds activating the cAMP signaling pathway may be useful in the field of multiple myeloma.

With regards to the anti-cancer properties of artichoke extract here are some studies. I don't have time to summarize them right now:

The protective effects of fish oil and artichoke on hepatocellular carcinoma in rats.

Artichoke polyphenols induce apoptosis and decrease the invasive potential of the human breast cancer cell line MDA-MB231.

Inhibitory effect of the flowers of artichoke (Cynara cardunculus) on TPA-induced inflammation and tumor promotion in two-stage carcinogenesis in mouse skin.

Antioxidative and apoptotic properties of polyphenolic extracts from edible part of artichoke (Cynara scolymus L.) on cultured rat hepatocytes and on human hepatoma cells.

Cancer chemoprevention by polyphenols in green tea and artichoke.


While we're at it, let's look at Forskolin

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7898427

Inhibitory effects of Forskolin on hepatic metastasis from human colon cancer in nude mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2404557

Inhibition of hepatic metastasis from a human pancreatic adenocarcinoma (RWP-2) in the nude mouse by prostacyclin, forskolin, and ketoconazole.

so in these studies cAMP raising Forskolin is anti-cancer.

Cancer has been studied so much that there is a lot of contradictory research on the benefit or threats of just about everything with regards to cancer. For example:

coffee causes cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18183588

Oh wait it prevents cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24070239

Oh no wait. It causes cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11750236

Oh wait it prevents cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23907772

See what I mean?

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 October 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Nordmann]

So I`m reading physiology and noticed some pages about cAMP. And it basically says “permanent elevated levels of cAMP production will lead to brain tumor, glandula hypophyseos” I`m no expert on judging this, but kinda freaked me out a little, any thoughts?

Can you look up the citation for that one?


With regards to existing pituitary tumors, there is some evidence that their activity can be increased by PDE4 inhibiton. PDE4 inhibiton incresaes the activity of most brain cells. Of course, keep in mind that these studies were all done with rolipram which is the several order of magnitude stronger than artichoke extract and stimulates a different mix of PDE4 isoforms, causes vomiting at 0.1mg/kg etc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2174276

This compound enhances basal, hormone- and forskolin-elicited cAMP accumulation in prolactin (PRL) producing rat pituitary adenoma (GH4C1) cells in culture (ED50 = 5.10(-8) M)

So if you already have pituitary brain cancer there's some evidence that it's not a good one to take. Unless you have giloblastomas (a brain tumor of the gilial cells) where there is some evidence that says Rolipram and Forskolin kill giloblastoma (brain tumor) cells.:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22227470

Phosphodiesterase inhibitors control A172 human glioblastoma cell death through cAMP-mediated activation of protein kinase A and Epac1/Rap1 pathways
...
A172 and U87MG human glioblastoma cells were used.
...
Non-specific PDE inhibitors, isobutylmethylxanthine(IBMX) and theophylline reduce survival percentage of A172 and U87MG cells.
...
Rolipram-treated A172 or U87MG cell survival was lower in the presence of forskolin, adenylate cyclase activator, than that in its absence.
...
Rolipram-induced A172 cell death was also increased by the co-treatment with dbcAMP or CPT, but it was inhibited by the pre-treatment with H-89.

Here's some studies that says raised cAMP kills myeloma (cancer of white blood cells):

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21767374

Cyclic AMP induces apoptosis in multiple myeloma cells and inhibits tumor development in a mouse myeloma model.
...
CONCLUSIONS:
Elevation of intracellular levels of cAMP kills multiple myeloma cells in vitro and inhibits development of multiple myeloma in vivo. This strongly suggests that compounds activating the cAMP signaling pathway may be useful in the field of multiple myeloma.

With regards to the anti-cancer properties of artichoke extract here are some studies. I don't have time to summarize them right now:

The protective effects of fish oil and artichoke on hepatocellular carcinoma in rats.

Artichoke polyphenols induce apoptosis and decrease the invasive potential of the human breast cancer cell line MDA-MB231.



Inhibitory effect of the flowers of artichoke (Cynara cardunculus) on TPA-induced inflammation and tumor promotion in two-stage carcinogenesis in mouse skin.

Antioxidative and apoptotic properties of polyphenolic extracts from edible part of artichoke (Cynara scolymus L.) on cultured rat hepatocytes and on human hepatoma cells.

Cancer chemoprevention by polyphenols in green tea and artichoke.


While we're at it, let's look at Forskolin

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7898427

Inhibitory effects of Forskolin on hepatic metastasis from human colon cancer in nude mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2404557

Inhibition of hepatic metastasis from a human pancreatic adenocarcinoma (RWP-2) in the nude mouse by prostacyclin, forskolin, and ketoconazole.

so in these studies cAMP raising Forskolin is anti-cancer.

Cancer has been studied so much that there is a lot of contradictory research:

coffee causes cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18183588

Oh wait it prevents cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24070239

Oh no wait. It causes cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11750236

Oh wait it prevents cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23907772

See what I mean?

I definitely see what you mean.

The book is from 2001 and is in Norwegian. So it`s hard to directly quote it.

The chapter it`s quoted from is about cellular mutation and the increases of thyroid hormones. It explains like this: Hormone and G-protein mutation ->G-protein constantly active->permanent raised cAMP levels->glandula hypophyseos.

I might have jumped the gun on this one. I`m far from any scientist, I know one of ciltep purpose is to elevate cAMP levels, but then there`s how much ciltep affects cAMP compared to a G-protein mutation, something that`s probably not even comparable.

It was that direct quote that scared me “permanent elevated levels of cAMP production will lead to brain tumor, glandula hypophyseos”

[abelard lindsay]

The chapter it`s quoted from is about cellular mutation and the increases of thyroid hormones. It explains like this: Hormone and G-protein mutation ->G-protein constantly active->permanent raised cAMP levels->glandula hypophyseos.

I might have jumped the gun on this one. I`m far from any scientist, I know one of ciltep purpose is to elevate cAMP levels, but then there`s how much ciltep affects cAMP compared to a G-protein mutation, something that`s probably not even comparable.

It was that direct quote that scared me “permanent elevated levels of cAMP production will lead to brain tumor, glandula hypophyseos”

I think what they're talking about is that an indicator of cancer in the pituitary is permanently raised cAMP levels because of the mutated G-protein that is permanently activated. The key thing to understand here is that the cell has to have a mutation caused by a carcinogen, radiation, or a virus to cause this permanent behaviour. The cancer requires the mutation.

Raised cAMP occurs all the time via normal cellular activities, such as PKA activation of cAMP during Long Term Potentiation. Raised cAMP is not carcinogenic but it can be a means for a scientist to diagnose if a cell in a culture may be cancerous due to a mutation in the cell's machinery. Thus there's nothing to worry about when a PDE4 inhibitor and Forskolin is raising cAMP because it's not due to a cancerous mutation and there is no evidence that I've seen that it will cause a mutation.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 October 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[BlueCloud]

So, i have been on CILTEP ( 12 mg of 10% Forskolin, 600mg Artichoke extract) 3 days now, and I can't say I'm seeing much from it unfortunately. The first time I took it , late afternoon, I felt some sort of relaxation after 90~120 minutes, maybe that's what has been described as "swimmy" effect by some. I was studying some stuff during that evening and the following day I seem to have remembered most of it with a slightly better precision than I'm used to. However the following days ( taking my dose in the morning on empty stomach half an hour before breakfast) I haven't noticed anything similar, wich makes me think it was perhaps just coincidence.

On the second day I added 500mg of Tyrosine. But for the last 2 days I haven't noticed anything at all from CILTEP, whether it's memory, focus, motivation, energy, etc...
The only consistent observation is a slight relaxing effect after one or two hours, wich makes my concentration actually a bit worse.

Edited by BlueCloud, 09 October 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

I know LTP was first discovered in rabbit hippocampus. It's exclusively given there, in the hippocampus? Or maybe into other lymbic system structures (amygdala, dentate gyrus...). I say this 'cos, apart from the said benefits of motivation, learning, social, memory... we all know, I'm starting to see how PTSD is starting to dilute. It's not dissapearing but definitely, it's becoming more manageable each day. It's giving me a good approach to trauma issues and is also diminishing the re-flash aspect and the anxiety related to it. Spatial memory is getting better too. ALCAR plays a role in this improvement for sure.


I'm loving this so much.

There's evidence that cAMP levels and PTSD are related

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2821835

Cyclic adenosine 3',5'-monophosphate (cAMP) signal transduction was examined in lymphocytes and platelets obtained from patients with posttraumatic stress disorder. Intact lymphocytes from the posttraumatic patients (N = 10) showed significantly lower basal, isoproterenol-, and forskolin-stimulated cAMP levels than those from 10 healthy control subjects.

cAMP stimulation also increases the sensitivity of glucocorticoid receptors which are involved in PTSD

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21798341

...
Given decreased PKA activity found in patients with major depression, these data suggest that depressed patients may be vulnerable to cytokine effects on GR, and cAMP-PKA agonists may serve to reverse glucocorticoid resistance in patients with depression and increased inflammation.

Stimulation with glucocorticoids has been show to provide benefits to those with PTSD (see below). Making those receptors more sensitive with cAMP-PKA agonists as in the above study would probably help this process.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15677403

Can posttraumatic stress disorder be prevented with glucocorticoids?

The prolonged administration of glucocorticoids (stress doses of hydrocortisone) to critically ill patients resulted in a significant reduction of PTSD symptoms measured after recovery without influencing the number of categories of traumatic memory. This protective effect of cortisol can possibly be explained by a cortisol-induced temporary impairment in traumatic memory retrieval which has previously been demonstrated in both rats and humans. Therefore, stressdoses of hydrocortisone could be useful for prophylaxis and treatment of PTSD.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 October 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

So, i have been on CILTEP ( 12 mg of 10% Forskolin, 600mg Artichoke extract) 3 days now, and I can't say I'm seeing much from it unfortunately. The first time I took it , late afternoon, I felt some sort of relaxation after 90~120 minutes, maybe that's what has been described as "swimmy" effect by some. I was studying some stuff during that evening and the following day I seem to have remembered most of it with a slightly better precision than I'm used to. However the following days ( taking my dose in the morning on empty stomach half an hour before breakfast) I haven't noticed anything similar, wich makes me think it was perhaps just coincidence.

On the second day I added 500mg of Tyrosine. But for the last 2 days I haven't noticed anything at all from CILTEP, whether it's memory, focus, motivation, energy, etc...
The only consistent observation is a slight relaxing effect after one or two hours, wich makes my concentration actually a bit worse.

I'm trying to figure out the non-responder issue so I'm going to ask a few questions

1. Roughly how old are you?
2. Secondly, do you drink heavily?
3. Are you taking 12mg of forskolin or 1.2mg of forskolin from 12mg 10% forskolin? I take about 4mg of forskolin.
4. Are you taking any other supplements?

[Jochen]

This was an awesome thread to read I have to say!

Wish you all the best Abelard! Hope Natural Stacks becomes a success and I will be ordering my first in a few minutes :-)

I am keen to test this out with PQQ+CQ10+Shilajit

[BlueCloud]

So, i have been on CILTEP ( 12 mg of 10% Forskolin, 600mg Artichoke extract) 3 days now, and I can't say I'm seeing much from it unfortunately. The first time I took it , late afternoon, I felt some sort of relaxation after 90~120 minutes, maybe that's what has been described as "swimmy" effect by some. I was studying some stuff during that evening and the following day I seem to have remembered most of it with a slightly better precision than I'm used to. However the following days ( taking my dose in the morning on empty stomach half an hour before breakfast) I haven't noticed anything similar, wich makes me think it was perhaps just coincidence.

On the second day I added 500mg of Tyrosine. But for the last 2 days I haven't noticed anything at all from CILTEP, whether it's memory, focus, motivation, energy, etc...
The only consistent observation is a slight relaxing effect after one or two hours, wich makes my concentration actually a bit worse.

I'm trying to figure out the non-responder issue so I'm going to ask a few questions

1. Roughly how old are you?
2. Secondly, do you drink heavily?
3. Are you taking 12mg of forskolin or 1.2mg of forskolin from 12mg 10% forskolin? I take about 4mg of forskolin.
4. Are you taking any other supplements?

1- Early forties.

2- Two to four glasses of wine a week. Some weeks none at all.

3- Each capsule is 25mg of Forskoline from 250mg Coleus Forskohlii (10%). I open the capsule and throw a little more than half of it ,wich should give me roughly 9 to 12mg of Forskoline.

4- Only supplements while taking CILTEP were 400mg Magnesium Citrate wich also contained 10mg of B6, before bed ( for insomnia and constipation ), and a multivitamine with lunch on alternate days. On day two of CILTEP ( Tuesday ) I took 500mg of L-Tyrosine with it.
Other supplements I was taking last week are CDP Choline + Tyrosine/Sulbutiamine. I was pretty much a non-responder to those two until I added CDP-Choline ( I opened a thread about it here : http://www.longecity...d-sulbutiamine/ )

[chung_pao]

Abelard, are you still using 1:1 of Zembrin and Artichoke?
I get fatigued very early using Artichoke, and require re-dosing of Forskolin to maintain alertness.
I suspect it's because Melatonin is cAMP-dependent, and my PDE-inhibition is too weak.

For the benefit of myself, and all others users of this stack, I think the modification that holds most promise is a Stronger/more specific inhibition of PDE-4 than Artichoke Extract provides. Higher dosing that 2x500 mg has too many side-effects (boners, sedation).

What form of PDE-inhibition have you found to be most effective? Zembrin coupled with Artichoke or the latter stand-alone?

My issue with Zembrin alone is the Serotonergic feel, which definitely makes me less assertive, confident and motivated.
Have you researched it thoroughly enough to conclude that there are no other known, natural PDE-inhibitors than Artichoke and Zembrin?
If you have any leads, I'd be willing to initiate some testing.

Edited by chung_pao, 10 October 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[kassem23]

Anybody found any sleep disturbances? I find that my brain is so revved up that my sleep is slightly fragmented, and possibly also decreased in quality, although I cannot tell for sure as my performance remains high. I woke up very early, then forced myself to fall back asleep. I found myself quite restless. I should mention though that I drank a bunch of caffeine yesterday (earl grey tea till almost 11pm, went to bed at 3AM). Thoughts are very much appreciated. Should probably help with some magnesium threonate when I receive it.