132 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

Flaxseed oil is good. I take anywhere up to 8 capsules per day.

Your probably doing your body more damage than good. That's a ton of ALA, that not only might be somewhat rancid and oxidized already, but will likely oxidize in your body-at least from what I've read this could be the case.

Overall, I'm fairly content that the 500-1000IU of vitamin E will mediate that. To be fair, most days, I take 4 capsules. Occasionally, I'll go for an evening dose (on eg. a really stressful day) and that'll bump it up to 8.

[Logan]

Why not just take fish oil?

[JChief]

Why not just take fish oil?

He's vegan (or vegetarian one of the two ha)

[MrHappy]

Bingo. Plus much less chance of mercury, etc..

[nupi]

Conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is only very limited in humans. If anything, try getting algae derived EPA/DHA, Iherb has some http://www.iherb.com...h?kw=algae dha

the prices are quite ridiculous though, I will stick with my fish oil caps. Not too worried about mercury from purified fish oil, either ...

Edited by nupi, 24 January 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[MrHappy]

Mmm.. I read too much conflicting research on ALA conversion rates.. It seems some individuals convert well and other don't. Women tend to convert better than men, also.
http://www.udoerasmu...do/fish_oil.htm

I will be looking into the algae derived products next time I get low on flaxseed. My only concern with the algae products is that there is typically a very low EPA content. Perhaps a mix of the 2.

[nupi]

Even so, converting DHA to EPA would be easier than first converting ALA to DHA...

[Logan]

Mercury concerns are not legitimate at all. This is just another part of the vegan propaganda machine.

The algae idea is a great one. I believe there is an Omega Zen formulation with a finke amount of both DHS and EPA.

[MrHappy]

Reminded me of this.
Although, I'm vegetarian, not vegan.. :P

You'd think that purified / commercially farmed fish oil products should be OK, but since I don't eat fish anyway..

I've found flaxseed does actually work well for me, though. I will be investigating algae in the not too distant future anyway..

[MrHappy]

Hmm flaxseed oil - $15, locally for 300 caps. Vegan algae, $29 + shipping for 60 caps.

Assuming ALA conversion at 20%, it's >5-10x more expensive (varying product/brand contents), unless I can find a bulk product.. not giving up the research yet.

[hooter]

Mercury concerns are not legitimate at all. This is just another part of the vegan propaganda machine.

???

Fish oil lowers testosterone and it's pretty much established medical fact that salmon is a bioaccumulator of methylmercury. Where exactly do you get your sources for your posting, rewatching the X-men movies?

[nupi]

Source please on the testosterone connection.

As for the mercury, there's a reason why even halfway decent fish oil is distilled... And in fact, January 2012 ConsumerReport:

The lab tested three lots of each brand, bought in New York-area stores. All had their labeled amount of EPA and DHA, omega-3 fatty acids that can reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes. And none exceeded limits for lead, mercury, dioxins, or polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) set by the U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP), a nongovernmental standard-setting group, or by the European Union.


http://www.consumerr...s-vs-claims.htm

Edited by nupi, 31 January 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Mercury concerns are not legitimate at all. This is just another part of the vegan propaganda machine.

???

Fish oil lowers testosterone and it's pretty much established medical fact that salmon is a bioaccumulator of methylmercury. Where exactly do you get your sources for your posting, rewatching the X-men movies?

Fish oil has been tested repeatedly by numerous organizations and never found contaminants...can post references if needed but this is common knowledge. Fish oil can have an effect on libido for some but not through any connection to testosterone.

[hooter]

Source please on the testosterone connection.

As for the mercury, there's a reason why even halfway decent fish oil is distilled... And in fact, January 2012 ConsumerReport:

The lab tested three lots of each brand, bought in New York-area stores. All had their labeled amount of EPA and DHA, omega-3 fatty acids that can reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes. And none exceeded limits for lead, mercury, dioxins, or polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) set by the U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP), a nongovernmental standard-setting group, or by the European Union.


http://www.consumerr...s-vs-claims.htm

So it doesn't exceed some arbitrary limit... Neither does green tea, but you can still get fluorosis. Below the limit set by the USP does not mean no contaminants. The people dosing with 20g of salmon oil a day might not be doing so well. This is not a concern for the occasional user. However, testosterone very well is:

see here

and this

The correlations of total testosterone with n-3 fatty acids from fish remained significant after additional adjustment for the other categories of fat (r = -0.27, p = 0. 03 for eicosapentanoic acid and r = -0.32, p = 0.01 for docosahexaenoic acid), while the correlations with saturated and monounsaturated fats became nearly null after the adjustment.

I've also seen more, but I cannot find them at this moment.

Flaxseed oil reduces testosterone even more, so decide accordingly. The study, published in the Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, reported that feeding rats a diet rich in phytosterols, the type of fat found in plants, reduced testosterone in the blood stream by 33 percent.

Edited by hooter, 31 January 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[nbourbaki]

Hmm flaxseed oil - $15, locally for 300 caps. Vegan algae, $29 + shipping for 60 caps.

Assuming ALA conversion at 20%, it's >5-10x more expensive (varying product/brand contents), unless I can find a bulk product.. not giving up the research yet.

I switched from Flax Oil yesterday to DHA via Neuromins for my stack. I've seen much lower conversion stats for ALA to DHA.

[Hebbeh]

Source please on the testosterone connection.

As for the mercury, there's a reason why even halfway decent fish oil is distilled... And in fact, January 2012 ConsumerReport:

The lab tested three lots of each brand, bought in New York-area stores. All had their labeled amount of EPA and DHA, omega-3 fatty acids that can reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes. And none exceeded limits for lead, mercury, dioxins, or polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) set by the U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP), a nongovernmental standard-setting group, or by the European Union.


http://www.consumerr...s-vs-claims.htm

So it doesn't exceed some arbitrary limit... Neither does green tea, but you can still get fluorosis. Below the limit set by the USP does not mean no contaminants. The people dosing with 20g of salmon oil a day might not be doing so well. This is not a concern for the occasional user. However, testosterone very well is:

see here

and this

The correlations of total testosterone with n-3 fatty acids from fish remained significant after additional adjustment for the other categories of fat (r = -0.27, p = 0. 03 for eicosapentanoic acid and r = -0.32, p = 0.01 for docosahexaenoic acid), while the correlations with saturated and monounsaturated fats became nearly null after the adjustment.

I've also seen more, but I cannot find them at this moment.

Flaxseed oil reduces testosterone even more, so decide accordingly. The study, published in the Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, reported that feeding rats a diet rich in phytosterols, the type of fat found in plants, reduced testosterone in the blood stream by 33 percent.

I'll study this more when I'm not on my phone....but..in regards to the chart on effects of different fatty acids...total T isn't the end all be all. Free T is the much more important marker and free T was pretty even across the board. And more interesting was n-3 showed HIGHER levels of DHT which is the more androgenic hormone and probably has a higher effect on libido. And many athletes use lots of fish oil...because the benefits out weigh the risk.

And with regard to contamination....any trace amounts are negligible...you are going to get much larger amounts of contaminants in the rest of your diet

[JChief]

Personally I don't worry about Free T because I take eurycoma longifolia extract (1:200 pasak bumi) and that stuff has been proven via lab results that it significantly boosts levels (20-50% in a matter of weeks) but it doesn't interfere with the negative feedback loop like other boosters. It also boosts sperm counts. I just had a test result in last week and apparently 20 million is considered normal with 50% viable my results were stellar with a count of 89 million and 76% viable , even after only being a day and a half abstinent mind you. This stuff is powerful!

Edit: I also take ALCAR, R-ALA, astaxanthin, CoQ10, etc so that all probably plays a role too to be fair.

Here's a description of the EPA/DHA I take. I highly recommend it. Contamination shouldn't be a concern if it's from any decent company.

Edited by JChief, 18 April 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[MrHappy]

Looks like a good product!

I'm still weighing up options on the vegetarian front.

[Synaptik]

Personally I don't worry about Free T because I take eurycoma longifolia extract (1:200 pasak bumi) and that stuff has been proven via lab results that it significantly boosts levels (20-50% in a matter of weeks) but it doesn't interfere with the negative feedback loop like other boosters. It also boosts sperm counts. I just had a test result in last week and apparently 20 million is considered normal with 50% viable my results were stellar with a count of 89 million and 76% viable , even after only being a day and a half abstinent mind you. This stuff is powerful!

Edit: I also take ALCAR, R-ALA, astaxanthin, CoQ10, etc so that all probably plays a role too to be fair.

Here's a description of the EPA/DHA I take. I highly recommend it. Contamination shouldn't be a concern if it's from any decent company.

OP, is your original stack still working? If not, when did it all go s_ _t?

[JChief]

OP, is your original stack still working? If not, when did it all go s_ _t?

The only major change I've made is I've added centrophenoxine (250mg shortly after waking) which has increased focus/alertness and seems to work well with piracetam to achieve that intellectual boost I enjoy. 100mg TAU taken after waking before going in for the night shift will sometimes make me feel like I should go back for a supplemental nap however when I am in bed I am not tired whatsoever. It's like I'd feel like I'd need to just relax but felt alert at the same time? Hard to explain. Mr Happy: is that what you were referring to when you mentioned a "zen like state" at that dose? May have something to do with my odd sleeping hours. I will not be working the overnight shift for long term. Just short term.

Working nights, as you can imagine, messes with your circadian rhythm. I feel good and far from depressed and am very productive currently. Then again life circumstances are good right now so that always helps FYI I will take melatonin sublingual to help sleep during the day at times. I do not need it every day though nor do I feel people should be taking melatonin regularly if you are in your 20s as I am. I learned this the hard way after a couple weeks of doing so and noticing I would wake up abruptly after 4 hours of sleep or so and feeling awkward. My gut told me to quit taking it unless I really needed it. Antioxidant properties or not. I have been taking 50mg TAU per day since adding the centro with the idea that if I felt good why not scale back the dose again? So that's where I'm at.

[Synaptik]

OP, is your original stack still working? If not, when did it all go s_ _t?

The only major change I've made is I've added centrophenoxine (250mg shortly after waking) which has increased focus/alertness and seems to work well with piracetam to achieve that intellectual boost I enjoy. 100mg TAU taken after waking before going in for the night shift will sometimes make me feel like I should go back for a supplemental nap however when I am in bed I am not tired whatsoever. It's like I'd feel like I'd need to just relax but felt alert at the same time? Hard to explain. Mr Happy: is that what you were referring to when you mentioned a "zen like state" at that dose? May have something to do with my odd sleeping hours. I will not be working the overnight shift for long term. Just short term.

Working nights, as you can imagine, messes with your circadian rhythm. I feel good and far from depressed and am very productive currently. Then again life circumstances are good right now so that always helps FYI I will take melatonin sublingual to help sleep during the day at times. I do not need it every day though nor do I feel people should be taking melatonin regularly if you are in your 20s as I am. I learned this the hard way after a couple weeks of doing so and noticing I would wake up abruptly after 4 hours of sleep or so and feeling awkward. My gut told me to quit taking it unless I really needed it. Antioxidant properties or not. I have been taking 50mg TAU per day since adding the centro with the idea that if I felt good why not scale back the dose again? So that's where I'm at.

Ok good info thanks. Rec.

[MrHappy]

Pretty much - in my case, when taking the larger doses, I was in a peaceful, content space and I wasn't bothered by highs, downers or distractions, such as stress or sleep-loss. It was like sliding through the day on a greased rail.

Taking less made the day more vibrant and still stopped any stress / sleep-loss effects.

[lourdaud]

I remember there was some talk about autism and excessive uridine, what do you think, could this stuff still be worth a shot for someone with ADHD and ASD?

[MrHappy]

ADHD I think would be positive.

ASD - potentially (with no human data points to quote yet), but you'd also want to look incorporating precursors to oxytocin, such as cholesterol, into the stack. I'd also look at L-methylfolate instead of folate / folic acid.

[lourdaud]

How might one incorporate cholesterol? From food??
Already on folate and m-b12 but thanks for the advice!

[MrHappy]

Diet, for sure.
http://www.greatplai...holesterol/web/

[stablemind]

Any updates on the PQQ? I'm thinking about giving this a try since ALCAR and Uridine, both of which improves mitochondrial function, has a great impact on me.

[tea76]

Hey guys,

I just started with my Piracetam + AlphaGPC regiment today and looking to expand/modify this regiment within some time, perhaps next month after trying this out a bit.

I've read this thread and would be happy if someone could give a brief overview of ALCAR and Uridine, and what are essential things to know about them. Are they considered normal or exotic supplements? Are there any negative effects or neutralisations of other supplements or nutritional components that one should be aware of?

I'm thinking of expanding my stack to, with time, include:
* Piracetam
* Aniracetam
* Citicholine or AlphaGPC and/or ALCAR + ALA(?)
* Inositol
* Uridine
* Omega-3 fishoil for EPA and DHA
* Silica (for hair)
* Multivitamins
* Perhaps more B vitamins if needed (not sure on this yet)

Thanks!

Edited by ecglsd, 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[sapaiderman]

Today I've just started an Alcar, ALA, Uridine TAU, DHA/EPA, and Bvit, VitC/E stack and all I can say is... WOW! what a great day I've had!
I've been in a peaceful, balanced Zen like state all day. Hope this continues...

Edited by sapaiderman, 29 December 2012 - 03:32 PM.

[freepie]

Today is my 4th day on the uridine protocol. Past 3 days I took 50mg sublinguil twice a day morning and late evening. Today I took 100mg sublinguil at noon (I woke up at 11am) hoping to study all day. I think it's made me sleepy! There's so much I need to get done today :(

P.S. I am taking the cofactors (DHA, EPA, Vitamin E, B vitamins)