211 replies to this topic

[Introspecta]

I wish they made a piracetam extract so I could dose around 40grams a day without capping 349 pills. Kind of annoying. My best results have been on the mega doses. What is strange though is once in awhile the megadoses don't have the great effects. Other times its absolutely amazing.

[ScienceGuy]

RE: "My best results have been on the mega doses." - Again, please note that your MEGA DOSES are in fact NORMAL DOSES, which is the whole point of this thread

Edited by ScienceGuy, 10 March 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Hyperspace21]

I wish they made a piracetam extract so I could dose around 40grams a day without capping 349 pills. Kind of annoying. My best results have been on the mega doses. What is strange though is once in awhile the megadoses don't have the great effects. Other times its absolutely amazing.

you could try and make piracetam extract by super-saturating piracetam in water, but, it would be intensely bitter and personally, 40 grams is too much and I doubt you'd experience anything positive. As for varying doses, It all depends on your glutamate and calcium levels in your brain. There should be a perfect balance in both (slightly higher levels of glutamate are acceptable). That's why some people feel good after taking piracetam with tea or coffee.
(I have no right to recommend anything but see what's best for you).

[Introspecta]

I've taken 40 grams and it was great. Usually the more I take the more focused and the more color appears in objects. I've been taking the stuff for years so I do have a slight tolerance to noticing the effects. Doesn't mean i'm not getting effects I just don't notice them obviously until I go way up in dose. The lower doses are extremely subtle for me.

[Hyperspace21]

I've taken 40 grams and it was great. Usually the more I take the more focused and the more color appears in objects. I've been taking the stuff for years so I do have a slight tolerance to noticing the effects. Doesn't mean i'm not getting effects I just don't notice them obviously until I go way up in dose. The lower doses are extremely subtle for me.

Considering, that you have been taking it for years, it is possible that you might have a low calcium concentration in your brain, thus requiring you to take Mega-Doses. Piracetam usually signals the calcium ions in your brain to release glutamate into your post synaptic space (in small amounts). I'm trying to find a good food/beverage that helps take care of the low calcium ion concentration problem.

So far the best I have come up with is calcium from milk (better than calcium tablet supplementation). Too much calcium can cause glutamate to be released in excess amounts and kill neurons.
It's good to drink about 16.9 .oz (U.S. ounces)or 500 ml of milk everyday unless you are lactose intolerant in which case calcium tablets would be better.

[ScienceGuy]

I've taken 40 grams and it was great. Usually the more I take the more focused and the more color appears in objects. I've been taking the stuff for years so I do have a slight tolerance to noticing the effects. Doesn't mean i'm not getting effects I just don't notice them obviously until I go way up in dose. The lower doses are extremely subtle for me.

Considering, that you have been taking it for years, it is possible that you might have a low calcium concentration in your brain, thus requiring you to take Mega-Doses. Piracetam usually signals the calcium ions in your brain to release glutamate into your post synaptic space (in small amounts). I'm trying to find a good food/beverage that helps take care of the low calcium ion concentration problem.

So far the best I have come up with is calcium from milk (better than calcium tablet supplementation). Too much calcium can cause glutamate to be released in excess amounts and kill neurons.
It's good to drink about 16.9 .oz (U.S. ounces)or 500 ml of milk everyday unless you are lactose intolerant in which case calcium tablets would be better.

It is somewhat IRONIC that I take my PIRACETAM with MILK

Although I cannot clain credit for doing so for the purposes of INCREASING CALCIUM IONS within the brain; I have been doing so to avoid STOMACH UPSET

[Hyperspace21]

It is somewhat IRONIC that I take my PIRACETAM with MILK

Although I cannot clain credit for doing so for the purposes of INCREASING CALCIUM IONS within the brain; I have been doing so to avoid STOMACH UPSET

Ironic indeed, maybe it's just part of your good diet that makes piracetam work for you so well.

[Introspecta]

Milk no longer does a body good. Seems like anyone who stops drinking milk for awhile becomes lactose intolerant. I used to drink tons of the stuff but can no longer handle it and I don't really think it is good for you. I'll have to look into the calcium thing though thats interesting. I wonder if it would restore the magic.

[absent minded]

I have in fact been taking doses of Piracetem of 2 x 5gms per day (total 10gms) as if you needed me to calculate that for you.

I have now upped my dose that of 2 x 10gms (total 20gms)

This is only the secomd day and I have not recognised any big changes as yet so will continue. I may increase again.

I have an order of Piracetem (1kg) from Cerebral Health and I dont want to run out before it arrives. (as a side note, My order with CH was made 6 Feb, still not arrived and have emailed for update with no reply as yet. How long do you guys wait for deliveries from CH to UK?)

I will let you know how I go.

Well, now that you've shared your case, we can now worry together! I ordered noopept from their sister company, Bioscience Nutraceuticals. My first order from them said on the package that it came from Cerebral Health. I am experiencing the same thing, except I ordered on January the 23rd. I did manage to get a hold of the two companies, but there is doubt. e.g. they told me noopept was on backorder and that it should be another day, and thereafter 1 week later I had to e-mail them again. I e-mailed Cerebral Health instead and told me the same thing. Well it's been 2 days now and I still haven't even received a shipment confirmation e-mail. I wasn't even expecting my shipment to arrive, i just wanted the information update whether they shipped it yet or not.

I did try asking them if they were dealing with some sort of issues, but they never told me anything.

EDIT: Just saw the mentioning of calcium... do you take it by itself or better with magnesium...with food or no? My magnesium malate has 100 mg of calcium in it from carbonate. So I have an anti-acid, calcium, magnesium, and some malic acid in the early morning. Would this be bad for my stomach? Stomach acid is already low in the early morning...

Edited by absent minded, 16 February 2012 - 01:27 AM.

[nezxon]

I don't think Piracetam's action is entirely calcium/ion channel related. I think on a mineral level, at the very least it would probably be related to a healthy supply of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium, all of which facilitate ion transfer and regulate electrical signals (synaptic potential, action potential, etc.). I don't think calcium intake alone would radically affect the balance. And I think it's more of a support issue than a true gateway to effectiveness. If there's enough of the right minerals in the proper ratio*, then mental function will continue smoothly.

If there's a nutrient imbalance, I think that has the potential for some kind of impairment with or without Piracetam. So I think calcium in relation to Piracetam is really just about having healthy nutrition.

*Ratio I'm sure is fairly flexible. I'm assuming an average healthy amount, such as 5g Potassium, 1g Calcium, Magnesium 1g, Sodium 2g. Give or take 25-50%. I'm not giving health advice so don't take those figures as gospel on mineral intake, just an example.

[Hyperspace21]

Milk no longer does a body good. Seems like anyone who stops drinking milk for awhile becomes lactose intolerant. I used to drink tons of the stuff but can no longer handle it and I don't really think it is good for you. I'll have to look into the calcium thing though thats interesting. I wonder if it would restore the magic.

suit your-self

[Hyperspace21]

I have in fact been taking doses of Piracetem of 2 x 5gms per day (total 10gms) as if you needed me to calculate that for you.

I have now upped my dose that of 2 x 10gms (total 20gms)

This is only the secomd day and I have not recognised any big changes as yet so will continue. I may increase again.

I have an order of Piracetem (1kg) from Cerebral Health and I dont want to run out before it arrives. (as a side note, My order with CH was made 6 Feb, still not arrived and have emailed for update with no reply as yet. How long do you guys wait for deliveries from CH to UK?)

I will let you know how I go.

Well, now that you've shared your case, we can now worry together! I ordered noopept from their sister company, Bioscience Nutraceuticals. My first order from them said on the package that it came from Cerebral Health. I am experiencing the same thing, except I ordered on January the 23rd. I did manage to get a hold of the two companies, but there is doubt. e.g. they told me noopept was on backorder and that it should be another day, and thereafter 1 week later I had to e-mail them again. I e-mailed Cerebral Health instead and told me the same thing. Well it's been 2 days now and I still haven't even received a shipment confirmation e-mail. I wasn't even expecting my shipment to arrive, i just wanted the information update whether they shipped it yet or not.

I did try asking them if they were dealing with some sort of issues, but they never told me anything.

EDIT: Just saw the mentioning of calcium... do you take it by itself or better with magnesium...with food or no? My magnesium malate has 100 mg of calcium in it from carbonate. So I have an anti-acid, calcium, magnesium, and some malic acid in the early morning. Would this be bad for my stomach? Stomach acid is already low in the early morning...

I order all my nootropics from Cerebral health too, please note that piracetam builds up in your body, it's more likely that when you first introduce something new to the body, your body will just pass it through the system if it is in low amounts, keep giving it the same thing over and over again, your body will 'think' of utilizing this new substance since it's being consumed in abundance.

(It's like the first time you drink alcohol and you hate it, few drinks later, and you start enjoying it's effects. (Alcohol with piracetam is a BAD IDEA)). Piracetam obviously doesn't, solely work on calcium and glutamate, rather, it works with various minerals and vitamins. The calcium ions are the most prominent because they release glutamate in to your brain in small amounts. Glutamate causes you to 'Feel' the effects of periacetam (like the special effects in a movie), the interaction with other minerals help in cognitive function,memory and higher processing speeds.

As far as magnesium goes, I don't know it's true effects (we are still having clinical trials done), but I can make a guess that it helps regulate the NMDA receptors in your brain (which is good for you since too much of NMDA receptors can cause neuron damage).

[scouser]

I have in fact been taking doses of Piracetem of 2 x 5gms per day (total 10gms) as if you needed me to calculate that for you.

I have now upped my dose that of 2 x 10gms (total 20gms)

This is only the secomd day and I have not recognised any big changes as yet so will continue. I may increase again.

I have an order of Piracetem (1kg) from Cerebral Health and I dont want to run out before it arrives. (as a side note, My order with CH was made 6 Feb, still not arrived and have emailed for update with no reply as yet. How long do you guys wait for deliveries from CH to UK?)

I will let you know how I go.

Well, now that you've shared your case, we can now worry together! I ordered noopept from their sister company, Bioscience Nutraceuticals. My first order from them said on the package that it came from Cerebral Health. I am experiencing the same thing, except I ordered on January the 23rd. I did manage to get a hold of the two companies, but there is doubt. e.g. they told me noopept was on backorder and that it should be another day, and thereafter 1 week later I had to e-mail them again. I e-mailed Cerebral Health instead and told me the same thing. Well it's been 2 days now and I still haven't even received a shipment confirmation e-mail. I wasn't even expecting my shipment to arrive, i just wanted the information update whether they shipped it yet or not.

I did try asking them if they were dealing with some sort of issues, but they never told me anything.

EDIT: Just saw the mentioning of calcium... do you take it by itself or better with magnesium...with food or no? My magnesium malate has 100 mg of calcium in it from carbonate. So I have an anti-acid, calcium, magnesium, and some malic acid in the early morning. Would this be bad for my stomach? Stomach acid is already low in the early morning...

Hi

I sent a second email, very polite and had a response within minutes. i was told that another product was on back order and it would all be sent to me in days. I have now ordered another 500gms Pira from another supplier incase I am let down. However Cerebral health are recommended here and so, while a bit of a pain, i am not overly worried. I will know to order in plenty of time next order. i also ordered on credit card, so worst case i will take my money back.

[Hyperspace21]

Edited by manic_racetam, 16 February 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

Milk no longer does a body good. Seems like anyone who stops drinking milk for awhile becomes lactose intolerant. I used to drink tons of the stuff but can no longer handle it and I don't really think it is good for you. I'll have to look into the calcium thing though thats interesting. I wonder if it would restore the magic.

The problem is that MILK has TWO potential allergens, namely LACTOSE and CASEIN (= A MILK PROTEIN); and individuals can be ALLERGIC or INTOLERANT to one or other or both

However, any ALLERGIES or INTOLERANCES that you were not borne with are in almost ALL cases caused by something that is currently throwing your body out of whack, so to speak; such as an EXISTING PATHOGENIC INFECTION (BACTERIAL, VIRAL, PROTOZOAL or otherwise), which you may not even be aware of. Eliminate the cause and eliminate the ALLERGY or INTOLERANCE

Milk is not 'ALL BAD', and almost ALL instances of DAIRY ALLERGY or INTOLERANCE where the instance is not from birth are wholly REVERSIBLE by eliminating what is the cause

Edited by ScienceGuy, 16 February 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[manic_racetam]

Guys, please keep the retailer and product discussion in the appropriate forum. Feel free to start a new thread there if you'd like or continue an existing thread with many of the same concerns there. Let's not derail this discussion.

[ScienceGuy]

As far as magnesium goes, I don't know it's true effects (we are still having clinical trials done), but I can make a guess that it helps regulate the NMDA receptors in your brain (which is good for you since too much of NMDA receptors can cause neuron damage).

I'd hazard a guess that your guess is CORRECT

[ScienceGuy]

Guys, please keep the retailer and product discussion in the appropriate forum. Feel free to start a new thread there if you'd like or continue an existing thread with many of the same concerns there. Let's not derail this discussion.

THANK YOU!

[scouser]

Yeah, got carried away there a little, will do as requested :-)

[hooter]

You are absolutely correct. However, this particular study does demonstrate that it is perfect safe to take PIRACETAM at a dosage of 24g; however, please kindly note that I am not suggesting that everyone should start taking 24g PIRACETAM daily. My recommended dosage is 4.8 grams 2 - 3 times daily. However, if people wish to experiment with higher doses they can do so with the knowledge that it is perfectly SAFE

Are you really willing to state that it is safe based on short trials and low dose longer term use? 24g daily for 10, 20, 50+ years with no adverse effects? Are you personally willing to be liable if it turns out that you are wrong?

I'm going to try 24g daily for 50 years. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[ScienceGuy]

You are absolutely correct. However, this particular study does demonstrate that it is perfect safe to take PIRACETAM at a dosage of 24g; however, please kindly note that I am not suggesting that everyone should start taking 24g PIRACETAM daily. My recommended dosage is 4.8 grams 2 - 3 times daily. However, if people wish to experiment with higher doses they can do so with the knowledge that it is perfectly SAFE

Are you really willing to state that it is safe based on short trials and low dose longer term use? 24g daily for 10, 20, 50+ years with no adverse effects? Are you personally willing to be liable if it turns out that you are wrong?

I'm going to try 24g daily for 50 years. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Pfhahahaha... BRILLIANT!

[Hyperspace21]

You are absolutely correct. However, this particular study does demonstrate that it is perfect safe to take PIRACETAM at a dosage of 24g; however, please kindly note that I am not suggesting that everyone should start taking 24g PIRACETAM daily. My recommended dosage is 4.8 grams 2 - 3 times daily. However, if people wish to experiment with higher doses they can do so with the knowledge that it is perfectly SAFE

Are you really willing to state that it is safe based on short trials and low dose longer term use? 24g daily for 10, 20, 50+ years with no adverse effects? Are you personally willing to be liable if it turns out that you are wrong?

I'm going to try 24g daily for 50 years. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Hope you have enough funding from the government to buy all that piracetam.

[hooter]

Hope you have enough funding from the government to buy all that piracetam.

I'll just buy in biiiiiiiiiig bulk.

[ScienceGuy]

You are absolutely correct. However, this particular study does demonstrate that it is perfect safe to take PIRACETAM at a dosage of 24g; however, please kindly note that I am not suggesting that everyone should start taking 24g PIRACETAM daily. My recommended dosage is 4.8 grams 2 - 3 times daily. However, if people wish to experiment with higher doses they can do so with the knowledge that it is perfectly SAFE

Are you really willing to state that it is safe based on short trials and low dose longer term use? 24g daily for 10, 20, 50+ years with no adverse effects? Are you personally willing to be liable if it turns out that you are wrong?

I'm going to try 24g daily for 50 years. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Please kindly note the following regarding PIRACETAM TOXICITY:

Brain Res Brain Res Rev. 1994 May;19(2):180-222.

Piracetam and other structurally related nootropics.

Gouliaev AH, Senning A.

Source
Department of Chemistry, Aarhus University, Denmark.

Extract from Full Text

The racetams possess a very low toxicity... LD₅₀ > 10 g/kg p.o. (mice, rats and dogs)

[LD₅₀ is a TOXICITY MEASUREMENT comprising the amount of a material, given all at once, which causes the death of 50% (one half) of a group of test animals.]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advances in Neurology 1986; 43: 675-85

Piracetam: physiological disposition and mechanism of action

Tacconi MT, Wurtman RJ.

Extract from Full Text

PIRACETAM apparently is virtually non-toxic.... Rats treated chronically with 100 to 1,000 mg/kg orally for 6 months and dogs treated with as much as 10g/kg orally for 1 year did not show any toxic effect.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These CLINICAL TOXICITY STUDIES demonstrated no toxic effects whatsoever even when PIRACETAM was administered at a dosage PER ORALLY of 10g / Kg to dogs for 1 year!

The HUMAN EQUIVALENT DOSAGE (HED) for this (via BSA calculation) = 5.4g / Kg

Therefore, for a 76Kg Man a DOSAGE of 410 GRAMS (or 0.41 Kg) PIRACETAM would in fact be completely NON-TOXIC and SAFE

Please note that I am NOT suggesting that anyone take PIRACETAM at a dosage of 410 GRAMS; however, this does demonstrate that PIRACETAM is virtually non-toxic and as such total daily dosages of 9.8 grams and higher are wholly SAFE.

[health_nutty]

Do you recommend lowering the Piracetam dose when stacking it with other racetams? My thought is: 4.8 - 9.6g twice a day seems optimal from the research. Because I'm using other racetams, perhaps I should use the lower end of the range (4.8g instead of 9.6).

[manic_racetam]

PIRACETAM apparently is virtually non-toxic.... Rats treated chronically with 100 to 1,000 mg/kg orally for 6 months and dogs treated with as much as 10g/kg orally for 1 year did not show any toxic effect.

That poor dog... imagine having 10g/kg of piracetam stuffed down your throat for a year!

[ScienceGuy]

PIRACETAM apparently is virtually non-toxic.... Rats treated chronically with 100 to 1,000 mg/kg orally for 6 months and dogs treated with as much as 10g/kg orally for 1 year did not show any toxic effect.

That poor dog... imagine having 10g/kg of piracetam stuffed down your throat for a year!

I thought exactly the same thing! It's not as if mixing the PIRACETAM with GROUND UP GRAVY BONES would help much would it?

[ScienceGuy]

Do you recommend lowering the Piracetam dose when stacking it with other racetams? My thought is: 4.8 - 9.6g twice a day seems optimal from the research. Because I'm using other racetams, perhaps I should use the lower end of the range (4.8g instead of 9.6).

Excellent question!

Actually, I recommend doing it the other way around, namely take the full dose (e.g. 4.8g BID, total 9.8g) of PIRACETAM; and stack the OTHER RACETAMS with this at whatever dosages for the respective OTHER RACETAMS you find works well with the full dose PIRACETAM, which will likely be a reduced dosage

I personally stack 100mg PRAMIRACETAM and 200mg OXIRACETAM with 10g PIRACETAM daily

[health_nutty]

Do you recommend lowering the Piracetam dose when stacking it with other racetams? My thought is: 4.8 - 9.6g twice a day seems optimal from the research. Because I'm using other racetams, perhaps I should use the lower end of the range (4.8g instead of 9.6).

Excellent question!

Actually, I recommend doing it the other way around, namely take the full dose (e.g. 4.8g BID, total 9.8g) of PIRACETAM; and stack the OTHER RACETAMS with this at whatever dosages for the respective OTHER RACETAMS you find works well with the full dose PIRACETAM, which will likely be a reduced dosage

I personally stack 100mg PRAMIRACETAM and 200mg OXIRACETAM with 10g PIRACETAM daily

A few of the studies you posted showed the optimal dosage at 9.6g per dose. Is the 4.8 just being conservative? Why prioritize full dose of Piracetam first? Is it because it is the cheapest? most studied? Sorry for all the questions!

[BrainFrost]

Why twice a day though? Doesn't piracetam stay in effect for 4 hours?(my basic understanding) Wouldn't taking 3 doses at 4.8g every 4 hours equaling a total of 12 hours of active use be more beneficial?