14 replies to this topic

[REBUILDER]

I'm thinking of starting a project on Kickstarter selling an all in one Nootropic pill similar to Get Smart or Alpha Brain, but built around a
-racitam variant (probably just Piracetam), a choline source, and maybe one or two other products, and/or centrophenoxine. Anyone interested? Have ideas for a better stack? I know there might have to be different variants for different countries, but the initial goal would be to market a Piracetam+Choline ( and possibly an Ancillary ingredient) product throughout the USA.

I think such supplement doesn't have to be novel, it just has to be convenient, and the dose per pill does not have to be exact, but the ratio per pill should be precise. People could adjust the total daily Piracetam dose by varying the number of pills that they take at once. I understand that some other "noots" aren't safe at high doses, so any additional ingredients would have to be restricted in their dose in order to keep them at a level that is as safe as piracetam. I think that any such a product should be a basic stack for beginners.

Right now I am leaning towards something simple like Piracetam/Alpha GPC/Centrophenoxine. If there is a need for filler in the capsule form (in order to preserve the ratios when people ramp up doses of pills) I could use L-Glutamine or GABA.

Edit: I emailed 5 manufacturers to see if they would be comfortable manufacturing a piracetam based product and informed them that I would fund the first batch through Kickstarter.com

Edited by rebuilder, 20 February 2012 - 05:50 PM.

[REBUILDER]

115 views and no comments, positive or negative?

I need to know if anyone would buy this besides myself... Piracetam/Alpha GPC/Centrophenoxine in large capsules. Probably 3-4 pills for a moderate dose of each ingredient. 90-120 pills per bottle would give you a one month supply of a nice basic stack. Add that to another noot like hydergine or ginkgo and/or another "all in one" pill like alpha brain/get smart and you would have a solid, simple stack.

Edited by rebuilder, 20 February 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Introspecta]

Why would anyone buy that when they can buy the bulk individual cheap?

[Introspecta]

Make an all in one that contained Piracetam, Phenylpiracetam, 50mg AGPC, 10mg Noopept then MAYBE i''ll buy it.

[REBUILDER]

The idea is that convenience is worth paying for, and an all in one product that has obvious, indisputable effects wll be easy to market. Someone made a good point about the varied dose protocols for piracetam so I might use aniracetam as the base instead. AGPC is the most likely choline source. Centrophenoxine is a substance I like but that's probably not a good reason to build a formula around it. Having said that, is using noopept even an option?

[REBUILDER]

Now it looks as if I will ave to do everything offshore in order to avoid FDA s.crutiny. Incorporation, logistics, support and manufacturing.

[manic_racetam]

Now it looks as if I will ave to do everything offshore in order to avoid FDA s.crutiny. Incorporation, logistics, support and manufacturing.

Even then if you market in the USA you'll run into the same scrutiny. That's why companies like Alpha Brain, or even tim ferriss' "BrainQuicken" contain only substances recognized as supplements by the FDA... no racetams etc...

Because of that, all the "all in one" products you'll find on the market are basically variations of the same thing.. with new flashy marketing. Most people on these forums are more comfortable buying bulk ingredients they have more control over... more control over the source, dose, quality... and especially, more control over the price.

The convenience factor does come into play but generally speaking, it's almost impossible to find a combination that will suit the individual needs of informed buyers.

That being said, there's no shortage of uninformed people out there willing to spend their money on pretty capsules with a photo-shopped brain on the package.

Edited by manic_racetam, 22 February 2012 - 04:14 AM.

[REBUILDER]

Well, we'll see. I'm shopping around for a manufacturer for a 50% Aniracetam and 50% AGPC product. I will make no claims or allusions on the bottle or the website. I also might have a unique method of delivery that I won't disclose or discuss. (Did pre-med & minored in Chemistry. I'm playing with a few ideas.)

Edited by rebuilder, 22 February 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[Dobry Den]

Racetams cannot be classed as dietary supplements. Normally when you start making health/medical claims about a substance, it becomes a supplement in the FDA's eyes and regulated accordingly. However, if the substance cannot be considered a dietary substance, it becomes an unscheduled drug. So the second you start suggesting that your product is for human consumption, you open yourself up for an FDA audit for selling an unapproved drug.

Health claims are what led the FDA onto Mike of SmartPowders.com. Google "Piracetam legality" and you'll find that all the discourse goes back to a PDF that he got. Compare that situation to CerebralHealth.com that only has a one-liner above its bulk racetams section about cognitive enhancement. Then you find Piracetam with a Wikipedia "Learn More" link and a "Buy" button.

Bottom line: Not sure how you're going to market your smart pill in a way that makes no claims and survives the scrutiny of the FDA when it gets wind of you (ie when a competitor files a complaint about you).

Of course, you'll notice American Piracetam vendors that make health claims all day, but that's just the nature of the supplement/pill market -- a bunch of people playing roulette with getting caught. Half the supplement industry doesn't even test for heavy metal contaminants like they should and the attitude is "catch me if you can".

IANAL and you should be seeking legal counsel. Unless you want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars getting Piracetam approved for consumption, I wouldn't hinge my smart pill business on the hope that FDA never comes knocking.

As far as I know, none of the big boy supplement marketeers are pushing a racetam mix, and this is really not a race you want to come in first.

Edited by Dobry Den, 23 February 2012 - 05:03 AM.

[manic_racetam]

And this officially belongs in the retailer product discussion seciton...

[REBUILDER]

Racetams cannot be classed as dietary supplements...

Bottom line: Not sure how you're going to market your smart pill in a way that makes no claims and survives the scrutiny of the FDA when it gets wind of you (ie when a competitor files a complaint about you).

...IANAL and you should be seeking legal counsel. Unless you want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars getting Piracetam approved for consumption, I wouldn't hinge my smart pill business on the hope that FDA never comes knocking.

As far as I know, none of the big boy supplement marketeers are pushing a racetam mix, and this is really not a race you want to come in first.

My plan is now (perhaps too...) simple - no health claims anywhere on any site or bottle, perhaps a suggestive company name/logo but not a suggestive product name, and ads only on Nootropic sites or search engines. Production/Fulfillment can be outsourced to an FDA compliant manufacturer. OR perhaps it could just be sold as a research chemical.

[REBUILDER]

And this officially belongs in the retailer product discussion seciton...

I was about to ask if you could move it but it looks like you've already done so. I apologize for miscategorizing it but did not realize how this thread would go. (It was just an idea at first but it has quickly evolved into an actual plan.)

[unregistered_user]

It's already been done: Profiderall

[REBUILDER]

Damn. I don't know if Profiderall has enough claims on the label...

[Dobry Den]

Racetams cannot be classed as dietary supplements...

Bottom line: Not sure how you're going to market your smart pill in a way that makes no claims and survives the scrutiny of the FDA when it gets wind of you (ie when a competitor files a complaint about you).

...IANAL and you should be seeking legal counsel. Unless you want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars getting Piracetam approved for consumption, I wouldn't hinge my smart pill business on the hope that FDA never comes knocking.

As far as I know, none of the big boy supplement marketeers are pushing a racetam mix, and this is really not a race you want to come in first.

My plan is now (perhaps too...) simple - no health claims anywhere on any site or bottle, perhaps a suggestive company name/logo but not a suggestive product name, and ads only on Nootropic sites or search engines. Production/Fulfillment can be outsourced to an FDA compliant manufacturer. OR perhaps it could just be sold as a research chemical.

I actually don't mean to discourage you. My point is really this:

If you sell Piracetam, you'll never be in the green zone. You'll always be stomaching a little risk no matter how negligible. Technical risk. Risk that, looking at the companies that still sell Piracetam, might not be a big deal for you. The SmartPowders guy that got the publicized FDA letter now sells Piracetam under a different company/brand (PrimaForce) and makes the same claims on its labeling. No big deal. Profiderall explicitly makes similar claims. No big deal.

It's evident that the FDA isn't taking strict action. And if/when the FDA does even care about you, the precedent so far is to send you a letter, but that's pretty rare. A letter that tells you what you're doing wrong and gives you time to renovate your labeling. Hell, CerebralHealth.com just last year for having subpar laboratory/manufacturing compliance. Even though they didn't correct the issues the last time the FDA came around, the FDA gave them the same "you better shape up" spiel.

So if you went forward with it, there are a lot of much louder companies/products in the same corner, and they're doing alright. If they get too rambunctious, they'll get a letter and you'll be able to see it. I wouldn't invest capital into building my own Piracetam Foxconn Factory, but it doesn't really seem like there's much to otherwise lose here.

Go for it.

Edited by Dobry Den, 27 February 2012 - 05:03 AM.