50 replies to this topic

[Junk Master]

What about a coconut oil/C60 and DMSO transdermal salve?

[Turnbuckle]

Jeez, you can't mention an injury here without getting a ton of advice! The cissus sounds good. I have a pound of that lying around somewhere. And also the glucosamine & chondroitin. I've tried topical C60/EVOO and dmso, but separately. Didn't do anything, though DMSO is generally great for minor smashups, like hammer-on-thumb.

[mikey]

Jeez, you can't mention an injury here without getting a ton of advice! The cissus sounds good. I have a pound of that lying around somewhere. And also the glucosamine & chondroitin. I've tried topical C60/EVOO and dmso, but separately. Didn't do anything, though DMSO is generally great for minor smashups, like hammer-on-thumb.

DMSO can heal ligaments and tendons transdermally. I had three ligaments torn, the the anterior and posterior bands of the talofibular ligament, and the distal zone calcaneofibular ligament. The other problems were a stress fracture in the calcaneus and the Achilles being torn about 30 percent. The Achilles tore because these ligaments that stabilize foot movement weren't functioning.

I was going to have surgery to sew the pouch that the ligaments reside in together to create stability, but couldn't have the surgery for four months because of work travel. I started putting 99% DMSO liquid on the skin above the ligaments and on the Achilles 2 to 3 times a day for pain relief. When we were a week from surgery the surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph, ordered an MRI to see what he was going to be working on. After he received the MRI, he said, "It's considered medically impossible, but your ligaments and your Achilles are healed and you can quote me on that."
You can read about it in a online newspaper article I wrote at http://wehonews.com/...?articleID=4137 - and please forgive the missing title on the article. That web site has problems.

[Turnbuckle]

I was going to have surgery to sew the pouch that the ligaments reside in together to create stability, but couldn't have the surgery for four months because of work travel. I started putting 99% DMSO liquid on the skin above the ligaments and on the Achilles 2 to 3 times a day for pain relief. When we were a week from surgery the surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph, ordered an MRI to see what he was going to be working on. After he received the MRI, he said, "It's considered medically impossible, but your ligaments and your Achilles are healed and you can quote me on that."

Thanks. I was used to DMSO working immediately or not at all so never thought to keep applying it.

[stephen_b]

DMSO can heal ligaments and tendons transdermally.

Great story. I wonder if MSM can do much the same when taken orally.

[mikey]

I was going to have surgery to sew the pouch that the ligaments reside in together to create stability, but couldn't have the surgery for four months because of work travel. I started putting 99% DMSO liquid on the skin above the ligaments and on the Achilles 2 to 3 times a day for pain relief. When we were a week from surgery the surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph, ordered an MRI to see what he was going to be working on. After he received the MRI, he said, "It's considered medically impossible, but your ligaments and your Achilles are healed and you can quote me on that."

Thanks. I was used to DMSO working immediately or not at all so never thought to keep applying it.

You're quite welcome. I have studied DMSO in depth. The best reference book is DMSO: Nature's Healer by Morton Walker, DPM. One other thing I'll share that is useful - The book talks about someone who was near immobilization with rheumatoid arthritis - could barely get out of bed because of the pain.

She went to Oregon because that's where the DMSO doctors are. She was given an IV DMSO drip and topical DMSO applied to painful joints for five days, whereby her mobility increased tremendously. She was sent home with topical DMSO and a prescription to drink one teaspoon of 99% liquid DMSO in fruit juice - or anything to kill the taste - twice a day.

Because this told me that drinking it is safe, when I had shoulder surgery I did it.

When one has shoulder surgery there is swelling in the shoulder/arm the most, but also in the whole body.

I found that the swelling decreased to almost nothing for about 5 - 6 hours after I had a teaspoon. I also rubbed DMSO around the wound - not on the stitches - and when the stitches were out I administered it on the site. I healed up fast - DMSO enhances healing. I've also seen that when I have a cut if I put DMSO on the site it heals much faster. The same goes for aches/pains.

My elbow started aching for no reason yesterday. I rubbed DMSO gel on it several times and it's ok today.

A few years ago I was interviewed by a magazine publisher who hired me to write. She had terrible RA in her hands with swollen joints so bad that her wedding ring and another ring wouldn't come off her finger for two years. I suggested an anti-inflammatory supplement combination and in three weeks she said the swelling was reduced 70% with one ring coming off that finger, but not the wedding ring.

So I told her to rub DMSO on her hands twice a day and in ten days the wedding ring slid easily off her finger.

DMSO is one of the best things one can do if they have rheumatoid arthritis or any inflammatory condition.

As well, drinking it reduces inflammation, swelling and pain.

[mikey]

I was going to have surgery to sew the pouch that the ligaments reside in together to create stability, but couldn't have the surgery for four months because of work travel. I started putting 99% DMSO liquid on the skin above the ligaments and on the Achilles 2 to 3 times a day for pain relief. When we were a week from surgery the surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph, ordered an MRI to see what he was going to be working on. After he received the MRI, he said, "It's considered medically impossible, but your ligaments and your Achilles are healed and you can quote me on that."

Thanks. I was used to DMSO working immediately or not at all so never thought to keep applying it.

You're quite welcome. I have studied DMSO in depth. The best reference book is DMSO: Nature's Healer by Morton Walker, DPM. One other thing I'll share that is useful - The book talks about someone who was near immobilization with rheumatoid arthritis - could barely get out of bed because of the pain.

She went to Oregon because that's where the DMSO doctors are. She was given an IV DMSO drip and topical DMSO applied to painful joints for five days, whereby her mobility increased tremendously. She was sent home with topical DMSO and a prescription to drink one teaspoon of 99% liquid DMSO in fruit juice - or anything to kill the taste - twice a day.

Because this told me that drinking it is safe, when I had shoulder surgery I did it.

When one has shoulder surgery there is swelling in the shoulder/arm the most, but also in the whole body.

I found that the swelling decreased to almost nothing for about 5 - 6 hours after I had a teaspoon. I also rubbed DMSO around the wound - not on the stitches - and when the stitches were out I administered it on the site. I healed up fast - DMSO enhances healing. I've also seen that when I have a cut if I put DMSO on the site it heals much faster. The same goes for aches/pains.

My elbow started aching for no reason yesterday. I rubbed DMSO gel on it several times and it's ok today.

A few years ago I was interviewed by a magazine publisher who hired me to write. She had terrible RA in her hands with swollen joints so bad that her wedding ring and another ring wouldn't come off her finger for two years. I suggested an anti-inflammatory supplement combination and in three weeks she said the swelling was reduced 70% with one ring coming off that finger, but not the wedding ring.

So I told her to rub DMSO on her hands twice a day and in ten days the wedding ring slid easily off her finger.

DMSO is one of the best things one can do if they have rheumatoid arthritis or any inflammatory condition.

As well, drinking it reduces inflammation, swelling and pain.

And here's another one. Two years ago when I was 57 I boxed a 30-year old in a parking lot boxing ring in front of 800 people. This is one reason I thought it was BS when the Spectracell telomere test said I was 59. Anyway, it was a close fight - he got the decision and was an incredibly strong puncher. He broke my rib - the cartilage rib, not bone in the last round. I got through the fight - I have a very high pain threshold - but after it was over the pain was incredible. Anyone who's had a broken rib knows what I mean and the pain goes on for about 3 or 4 weeks before it's healed. Well, when I got home I applied DMSO to it several times and then five/six times a day and in four days I pain free enough to wrestle with the young guys I trained with. The guys were baffled at how fast I healed.

DMSO applied transdermally is one of the three medical miracles of the 20th Century. FDA does NOT want people to know how amazing it is, though, so they banned research on it in 1965 for specious reasons.

If people knew about it the public would save billions on painkillers, anti-inflammatory meds and surgeries. That's why FDA wants to keep it a secret.

[mikey]

DMSO can heal ligaments and tendons transdermally.

Great story. I wonder if MSM can do much the same when taken orally.

No. Although DMSO converts in small part into MSM in the body I have never seen MSM do what DMSO can do.

I've been taking 2250 mg of MSM for probably about ten years.

It is an anti-inflammatory but it doesn't have the power DMSO has. I know that there are cancer protocols that use 50 grams of MSM, but only a small part of MSM converts to DMSO and vice versa.

[Junk Master]

I can't even imagine how bad your breath must have been while you were drinking it! I use DMSO on a regular basis for running/sports related soft tissue injuries and it does work wonders on bruises and minor inflammation, but no matter how little I use the second I walk into a room with my wife she sniffs and says, "You're using that horse liniment again, aren't you? Disgusting!"

[Hebbeh]

I was never able to use DMSO for more than a couple days without breaking out in a painful rash from the severe skin drying and irritation.

[smithx]

I am curious to know if there are any studies showing that DMSO works, or if there are some papers explaining how it would work.

But we are now well off topic for this thread. Can we create a new thread for this, move all the DMSO messages there, and perhaps someone will also answer my queries above?

[Logic]

I have been reading up on DMSO. Thx Mikey.
Its very interesting stuff that deserves its own thread IMHO.

http://www.dmso.org/...mation/muir.htm

[maxwatt]

Raw garlic has similar properties to DMSO -- and similar stinkiness.
I wonder if you could use enough of it to have a similar effect?
(Getting out my juicer and 10 heads of garlic.....)

[Hebbeh]

Raw garlic has similar properties to DMSO -- and similar stinkiness.
I wonder if you could use enough of it to have a similar effect?
(Getting out my juicer and 10 heads of garlic.....)

Garlic has been on my 'bucket' list for long time. I'm right behind you....safe distance of course! We'll see what it does for my sore quad tendons.

[Logic]

lol! Stinky peeps everywhere!
So is parsley going to help? What can one use to kill the smell?

d-limonen?
http://anabolicminds...g-rid-dmso.html

http://www.livestron...th-chlorophyll/

[stephen_b]

No. Although DMSO converts in small part into MSM in the body I have never seen MSM do what DMSO can do.

I've been taking 2250 mg of MSM for probably about ten years.

It is an anti-inflammatory but it doesn't have the power DMSO has. I know that there are cancer protocols that use 50 grams of MSM, but only a small part of MSM converts to DMSO and vice versa.

I've had great luck with MSM as an anti-inflammatory for muscle soreness. It appears to be a much better choice than NSAIDS. For example, after completing a 50k this July (tough course, hot day, 4000+ feet of elevation change), I was understandably very sore after 8:22 hours on my feet. After 5-6 g of MSM, much of that went away. I've found it very helpful for exercise recovery. I'll give DMSO a try on an ankle sprain I've had for a few weeks now.

[zorba990]

I got good results using DMSO with CMO Oil, but the smell of both substances quickly became an issue in my house. CMO smells like motor oil and DMSO seems to magnify BO.

[Junk Master]

DMSO also works well as a temporary analgesic for tendonitis.

One thing to be careful about, though are impurities and make sure to clean the area of application well. I've seen a few accounts of elevated liver enzymes after DMSO use that I'd attribute less to the DMSO and more to whatever contaminants it carried through the skin.

I'd use it much more frequently, if I could find something to mitigate the rotten garlic breath.

[Logic]

So the bigest problem with this wonderous stuff is smelly breath. and BO.
Yet no one seems to even have looked at the links I posted earlier...?

[sapentia]

Took DMSO for the first time last night. I applied a self diluted 70% solution to a minor sprained ankle and to my lower back; I also took 1 tsp. orally. There was no discernable effect on the ankle. Interestingly, there was no issue with smell last night as I saw my parents later on and asked them. I had taken 1,000 mg of d-limonene as part of my regular supplementation just a bit earlier; did this have an effect or not? Well, this morning I took 1 tsp. orally again, but no d-limonene this morning. Well, I have a design firm with my dad and he commented on my smell being very bad this morning. This leaves me with two options as I see it: either the DMSO took longer than is common to work its way into and through my system and didn't show up as smell on me until this morning or the d-limonene neutralized the DMSO odor in my body night while it was present but did not have that effect this morning as it was out of my system. I will test that latter theory later today by taking more d-limonene.

I am dissappointed that I haven't felt the relief that so many people speak of with DMSO, but I am patient and will stick with it for a bit.

[Logic]

Took DMSO for the first time last night. I applied a self diluted 70% solution to a minor sprained ankle and to my lower back; I also took 1 tsp. orally. There was no discernable effect on the ankle. Interestingly, there was no issue with smell last night as I saw my parents later on and asked them. I had taken 1,000 mg of d-limonene as part of my regular supplementation just a bit earlier; did this have an effect or not? Well, this morning I took 1 tsp. orally again, but no d-limonene this morning. Well, I have a design firm with my dad and he commented on my smell being very bad this morning. This leaves me with two options as I see it: either the DMSO took longer than is common to work its way into and through my system and didn't show up as smell on me until this morning or the d-limonene neutralized the DMSO odor in my body night while it was present but did not have that effect this morning as it was out of my system. I will test that latter theory later today by taking more d-limonene.

I am dissappointed that I haven't felt the relief that so many people speak of with DMSO, but I am patient and will stick with it for a bit.

Interesting Sapentia. The smell is a big problem wit DMSO. I hope you have found a way of neutralizing it!

[sapentia]

Okay, here's an update on my DMSO experience with respect to smell. After smelling yesterday I went by my parents house. I had my mother confirm that I did not smell good at which point I took 1,000 mg of d-limonene. Roughly 30 minutes later I asked again and was told I no longer smelled bad but rather smelled like some version of baby food carrots. I then proceeded to take another tsp. orally of DMSO; no resultant increase in smell. This morning I made sure to take 1,000 mg of d-limonene and then orally took 1 tsp. of DMSO; again, no stank except for the odd baby food smell. I should point out that I can't differentiate my own smell.

So, it looks like d-limonene may be an effective odor neutralizer for DMSO. My only concern is if it adversely impacts the efficacy of DMSO as a therapeutic agent. I am not really sure how to measure this, but I am planning to mix some d-limonene with DMSO just to observe what type of reaction if any takes place in terms of visual and offactory components.

[hav]

Interesting how d-limonene neutralizes the odor. Btw, my wife got a pretty serious ankle sprain a few weeks ago. She was sure she broke it but xrays indicated not. She applied dmso to it to relieve the pain which helped quite a bit while lying prone. After a few days I found that I could easily dissolve the contents of 500 mg of a Now Foods MSM capsule into a half teaspoon of dmso so she started painting that on. Total healing time was about 2 weeks before she could walk without extreme pain. And another week for near complete healing. We found that drinking a glass of whole milk about 10 minutes before using dmso minimized the breath odor.

I'm going to try some d-limonene next time I use dmso on my aching right calf muscle. Btw, I have a script for an nsaid called Etodolac which I use "as needed" for joint or muscle pain. I've been using dmso lately to help minimize using it. Around the time I started with dmso a few weeks ago my calf was particularly bothersome so I took one orally right before applying dmso to it. It seemed like the dmso reacted with it because the pain went away almost instantly. Neither of them alone ever succeeded in doing that before.

Howard

Edited by hav, 19 September 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[daouda]

A warning

I suffer from generalized tendon and ligament damages all over my body after an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The worst of my articular issues though (because it is not healing but just steadily getting worse and worse even after a year) is patello-femoral cartilage damage. After reading this thread I started reseaching a little about DMSO... and a "cartilage DMSO" search yielded this study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9749514

Effect of dimethylsulfoxide on articular cartilage proteoglycan synthesis and degradation, chondrocyte viability, and matrix water content.


CONCLUSIONS:

DMSO, in relatively low concentration, is detrimental to articular cartilage PG synthesis in a time-dependent manner. Dehydration of the cartilage and chondrocyte death also occur with increasing time of DMSO exposure. Significant PG degradation occurs on the third day of culture with daily DMSO exposure.
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

As a joint lavage solution, DMSO has potentially deleterious effects on the metabolism of chondrocytes.

Needless to say, Im not going to apply DMSO on my pre-arthitic knees...

Edited by daouda, 25 September 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[sapentia]

A warning

I suffer from generalized tendon and ligament damages all over my body after an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The worst of my articular issues though (because it is not healing but just steadily getting worse and worse even after a year) is patello-femoral cartilage damage. After reading this thread I started reseaching a little about DMSO... and a "cartilage DMSO" search yielded this study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9749514

Effect of dimethylsulfoxide on articular cartilage proteoglycan synthesis and degradation, chondrocyte viability, and matrix water content.


CONCLUSIONS:

DMSO, in relatively low concentration, is detrimental to articular cartilage PG synthesis in a time-dependent manner. Dehydration of the cartilage and chondrocyte death also occur with increasing time of DMSO exposure. Significant PG degradation occurs on the third day of culture with daily DMSO exposure.
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

As a joint lavage solution, DMSO has potentially deleterious effects on the metabolism of chondrocytes.

Needless to say, Im not going to apply DMSO on my pre-arthitic knees...

A couple things to point out, this study used explants - a cell culture taken from a living host I presume - and then exposed to directly to DMSO. As such this is not an in vivo study. In real world application such as we are talking about the concentrations would in all likelihood be tremendously lower than those created in the study. If I swallow 1 teaspoon of DMSO or even apply a 50%-70% DMSO solution on the skin it is very unlikely to reach the concentrations within the joint/cartilage tissue that the study had. Last point is that as a joint lavage solution - meaning a fluid that is injected into the joint directly to flush it out - DMSO has potentially deleterious effects.

Thanks for the find though and I appreciate your caution; it is always wise to err on the side of safety.

[mikey]

I can't even imagine how bad your breath must have been while you were drinking it! I use DMSO on a regular basis for running/sports related soft tissue injuries and it does work wonders on bruises and minor inflammation, but no matter how little I use the second I walk into a room with my wife she sniffs and says, "You're using that horse liniment again, aren't you? Disgusting!"

LOL. Well, I don't do it that much. But when I smell a friend's breath after they drink it find don't find it disgusting, just kind of odd smelling. Garlic and oysters mixed together, but not nasty.

[mikey]

I am curious to know if there are any studies showing that DMSO works, or if there are some papers explaining how it would work.

But we are now well off topic for this thread. Can we create a new thread for this, move all the DMSO messages there, and perhaps someone will also answer my queries above?

There were over 300 studies on DMSO with over 10,000 patient records. FDA banned research on it in 1965 for specious reasons.

The best single reference work on it is "DMSO: Nature's Healer, by Morton Walker, DPM.

There were also THREE "60 Minutes" shows on it.

[mikey]

A warning

I suffer from generalized tendon and ligament damages all over my body after an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The worst of my articular issues though (because it is not healing but just steadily getting worse and worse even after a year) is patello-femoral cartilage damage. After reading this thread I started reseaching a little about DMSO... and a "cartilage DMSO" search yielded this study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9749514

Effect of dimethylsulfoxide on articular cartilage proteoglycan synthesis and degradation, chondrocyte viability, and matrix water content.


CONCLUSIONS:

DMSO, in relatively low concentration, is detrimental to articular cartilage PG synthesis in a time-dependent manner. Dehydration of the cartilage and chondrocyte death also occur with increasing time of DMSO exposure. Significant PG degradation occurs on the third day of culture with daily DMSO exposure.
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

As a joint lavage solution, DMSO has potentially deleterious effects on the metabolism of chondrocytes.

Needless to say, Im not going to apply DMSO on my pre-arthitic knees...

That's completely the opposite effect that was documented by MRI to have happened to my Achilles tendon and three ligaments in my foot. Four months of two-to-three times daily application of DMSO and they healed without immobilization, which my surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph in LA said was considered to be medically impossible. He said, "But the MRI shows that they are healed and you can quote me on that."

[zorba990]

A warning

I suffer from generalized tendon and ligament damages all over my body after an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The worst of my articular issues though (because it is not healing but just steadily getting worse and worse even after a year) is patello-femoral cartilage damage. After reading this thread I started reseaching a little about DMSO... and a "cartilage DMSO" search yielded this study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9749514

Effect of dimethylsulfoxide on articular cartilage proteoglycan synthesis and degradation, chondrocyte viability, and matrix water content.


CONCLUSIONS:

DMSO, in relatively low concentration, is detrimental to articular cartilage PG synthesis in a time-dependent manner. Dehydration of the cartilage and chondrocyte death also occur with increasing time of DMSO exposure. Significant PG degradation occurs on the third day of culture with daily DMSO exposure.
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

As a joint lavage solution, DMSO has potentially deleterious effects on the metabolism of chondrocytes.

Needless to say, Im not going to apply DMSO on my pre-arthitic knees...

That's completely the opposite effect that was documented by MRI to have happened to my Achilles tendon and three ligaments in my foot. Four months of two-to-three times daily application of DMSO and they healed without immobilization, which my surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph in LA said was considered to be medically impossible. He said, "But the MRI shows that they are healed and you can quote me on that."

Sounds like they need to do a longer term study. Perhaps there is a rebound effect that causes tendon and ligament recovery. Although I loathe the smell effect from DMSO, a powerlifter friend recently referred my to this site:
http://www.dmso-use....z_solution.html
Telling me that it produces no odor because it is so pure. I bought some and stuck it in the fridge for emergencies, but I have yet to try it out so I can't really vouch for his claim. (Honestly, the website looks a little 1990's - ish)

[david ellis]

Telling me that it produces no odor because it is so pure. I bought some and stuck it in the fridge for emergencies, but I have yet to try it out so I can't really vouch for his claim. (Honestly, the website looks a little 1990's - ish)

I bought Jacobs DMSO from Swansons VItamins. Very pure and it doesn't smell as bad as I remember from the '80's. But, I still got a bad breath problem that I cured with a mL of limonene poured on a small piece of bread. Limonene is a strong cleaning agent. I cleaned wax from my skis with it. I had bad luck dyeing my leather couch, when industrial alcohol failed to remove all the oils causing the dye to cover unevenly. I cleaned the couch with limonene. Because limonene is a little oily, I then used Kamchatka vodka to remove the slightly oily trace of limonene. The 25 year old leather couch looks very good now. I am a little off subject, but I got a good EBay price on a quart of food grade organic limonene, enough for over a year's worth of cleaning around the house. Breath freshener and amazing cleaner - all in one.