74 replies to this topic

[kevinseven11]

People who use tobbaco regularly shouldn't have any tolerance from this substance. I dont think the tolerance is from nicotinic receptors.

[manic_racetam]

I didn't try it long enough to develop a tolerance, but this stuff shouldn't be underestimated in stimulant potential. I took just one 100mg tablet (ordered the phenotropil from Kyrgyzstan 7 months ago or so) and experienced a very "speedy" effect. Gave me a bit of chest pain as well (possibly angina).

But it wasn't a focused energy necessarily. Maybe even made my ADHD worse. I remember I couldn't concentrate on a single task for more than a few seconds at a time. The next day I decided to try 200mg and the same effects were experienced. I felt very scatter-brained again and the chest pain was apparent again. Chest pain was located in the left side of my rib-cage just below my pectoral muscle.

It provided lots of physical motivation, I ended up cleaning my entire room which I'd been putting off for months, and I was doing it very quickly, but the scatter-brained feeling wasn't comfortable at all. It was like running from one thing to the next without really considering what I was doing. It was a better method for cleaning my room than just doing nothing about it, like I'd been doing for the previous months, but not the most comfortable experience.

And in regards to the price, this stuff just seems more expensive than other substances to produce, so the increased cost to manufacturers is reflected in consumer price as well.

I'd agree that it's a useful substance for short term increase in motivation and physical energy levels, but personally I'd only keep it on hand for occasional use.

[CIMN]

I didn't try it long enough to develop a tolerance, but this stuff shouldn't be underestimated in stimulant potential. I took just one 100mg tablet (ordered the phenotropil from Kyrgyzstan 7 months ago or so) and experienced a very "speedy" effect. Gave me a bit of chest pain as well (possibly angina).

But it wasn't a focused energy necessarily. Maybe even made my ADHD worse. I remember I couldn't concentrate on a single task for more than a few seconds at a time. The next day I decided to try 200mg and the same effects were experienced. I felt very scatter-brained again and the chest pain was apparent again. Chest pain was located in the left side of my rib-cage just below my pectoral muscle.


And in regards to the price, this stuff just seems more expensive than other substances to produce, so the increased cost to manufacturers is reflected in consumer price as well.

This substance needs more research, the phenyl group to this racetam causes a very dramatic effect, the phenyl group must be doing something, there must be a better reason for why tolerance occurs i'm thinking.

But the tolerance will not impeach upregulation of dopamine, NMDA, etc... from happening, right?

The problem is that there currently does not exist substantiated scientific evidence to demonstrate precisely what are and are not PHENYLPIRACETAM's pharmacological effects, in that the number of studies are too few, and the majority of those are either RODENT studies or IN VITRO and hence do not necessarily apply to HUMANS; and coupled with this there in fact exists conflicting studies... Note the study extract I posted above wherein it is reported that PHENYLPIRACETAM in fact induces a REDUCTION in DOPAMINE RECEPTORS in the RAT BRAIN. Hence, I do not think we can say for sure that PHENYLPIRACETAM causes "upregulation of dopamine, NMDA, etc"

this could be it more likely.

[renfr]

Chest pain really? Could be safer if you lower dosage to something like 50mg.
Btw, I've found the cheapest source of phenylpiracetam, it's powder at nootrabiolabs : 70 bucks for 10g which is 200 doses of 50mg or 100 doses of 100mg.
That's 0,35 cents for a dose, demiurge is much more expensive, 0,80 cents for a dose of 50mg.

[CognitionCoefficient]

I didn't try it long enough to develop a tolerance, but this stuff shouldn't be underestimated in stimulant potential. I took just one 100mg tablet (ordered the phenotropil from Kyrgyzstan 7 months ago or so) and experienced a very "speedy" effect. Gave me a bit of chest pain as well (possibly angina).

But it wasn't a focused energy necessarily. Maybe even made my ADHD worse. I remember I couldn't concentrate on a single task for more than a few seconds at a time. The next day I decided to try 200mg and the same effects were experienced. I felt very scatter-brained again and the chest pain was apparent again. Chest pain was located in the left side of my rib-cage just below my pectoral muscle.

It provided lots of physical motivation, I ended up cleaning my entire room which I'd been putting off for months, and I was doing it very quickly, but the scatter-brained feeling wasn't comfortable at all. It was like running from one thing to the next without really considering what I was doing. It was a better method for cleaning my room than just doing nothing about it, like I'd been doing for the previous months, but not the most comfortable experience.

And in regards to the price, this stuff just seems more expensive than other substances to produce, so the increased cost to manufacturers is reflected in consumer price as well.

I'd agree that it's a useful substance for short term increase in motivation and physical energy levels, but personally I'd only keep it on hand for occasional use.

If that's the case, there are many substances that will provide the same result. Though, once again, the studies provide more definitive answers (few as there are).

[@now]

It depends on your personal chemistry as well. I took this plus 200mg caffein and felt nice. Wrote a lot of software in a day.

Speedy, a bit. Focused, yes. Scatter-brained/tolerance: nope.

Looks like a YMMV case?

[Galantamine]

This substance needs more research, the phenyl group to this racetam causes a very dramatic effect, the phenyl group must be doing something, there must be a better reason for why tolerance occurs i'm thinking.

Phenylpiracetam contains the phenylethylamine pharmacophore and likely directly interacts with adrenergic receptors. It probably also undergoes en vivo hydrolysis into some interesting species with likely intrinsic receptor interactions: 4-phenyl-2-pyrrolidinone, 1-ethyl-4-phenylpyrrolidin-2-one, 1-methyl-4-phenylpyrrolidin-2-one.

[ScienceGuy]

This substance needs more research, the phenyl group to this racetam causes a very dramatic effect, the phenyl group must be doing something, there must be a better reason for why tolerance occurs i'm thinking.

Phenylpiracetam contains the phenylethylamine pharmacophore and likely directly interacts with adrenergic receptors. It probably also undergoes en vivo hydrolysis into some interesting species with likely intrinsic receptor interactions: 4-phenyl-2-pyrrolidinone, 1-ethyl-4-phenylpyrrolidin-2-one, 1-methyl-4-phenylpyrrolidin-2-one.

Nice one Irish MD!

[greekpsychonaut]

I bought this Demiurge... I feel that it does not work for me. If someone wants it, I have a couple of bottles I am not going to use.

[Cephalon]

Hey Greekpsychonaut,

Still have some left? Would be interested.

Did you use 50 or 100mg? Some people seem to need more. Like 200mg+

[greekpsychonaut]

Hey Greekpsychonaut,

Still have some left? Would be interested.

Did you use 50 or 100mg? Some people seem to need more. Like 200mg+

I do, PM me.

Edited by greekpsychonaut, 05 September 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Climactic]

I heard its great to stack with piracetam. The effects of phenylpiracetam are different apparently but they go great together. anyone know if its better than noopept was gonna order some from http://www.advancenootropics.com both are pricey so its between one or the other.

I don't know what AdvanceNootropics are selling, but it's quite possible that it's not phenylpiracetam. Phenylpiracetam and Noopept are quite different - it's like comparing apples and oranges. If you'd like to try phenylpiracetam, I suggest first trying genuine Russian Phenotropil, purchased off ebay. Feel free to take up to several hundred milligrams (only as needed), although it is admittedly expensive if purchased there. Since you're already in Russia, you can probably just get it off a local pharmacy for cheap. This will serve to establish a standard that you can come to expect. Sorry but I haven't tried piracetam with phenylpiracetam yet, but it probably sounds like a good idea. Phenylpiracetam is more for focus and mild stimulation (if used infrequently), whereas Noopept is more for memory and an antioxidant plus antiinflammatory effect.

Edited by Climactic, 11 November 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[Peak Noots]

thx climactic for quick response. i think im gonna go ahead and order the phenyl. I try the piracetam/phenyl combo out and do a review

[Climactic]

thx climactic for quick response. i think im gonna go ahead and order the phenyl. I try the piracetam/phenyl combo out and do a review

You'll probably end up wasting your money with the bulk powder which is labeled phenylpiracetam but is something else instead. When this happens, your review then will be inaccurate as well. As a case in point, you may first like to read http://www.longecity..._30#entry537654 including the posts that follow it. It is of course possible the powder is genuine, but you can't know this ahead of time. It's safest to try only Phenotropil first. Whatever you try, I look forward to your review (after you've used it for a while).

Edited by Climactic, 11 November 2012 - 03:16 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

Remember when Relentless Improvement sold this stuff? Those were the days! Anyway, this stuff goes great with CILTEP, and massively improves my programming focus when taken with it. The only problem with it is that it completely turns off the right brain.

What am I talking about when I say it turns off the right brain? I try and image stream and I just can't do it when I'm on phenylpiracetam. For instance, perform this little exercise as a test: Imagine a horse race, the jockeys, the horses, the crowds, the announcer, the stands, the cheering, the noise. Depending on how good you are at imagining things, you should be able to conjure up some imagery, perhaps a narrative, even a complete small imagined movie. On phenylpiracteam this is impossible. The thoughts just evaporate. It's great for left brained stuff though (e.g Programming, Math, etc) because it pretty thoroughly prevents your right brain from interrupting any thought processes.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 11 November 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[Climactic]

It's great for left brained stuff though (e.g Programming, Math, etc) because it pretty thoroughly prevents your right brain from interrupting any thought processes.

While I find this effect useful, as a word of caution, I should say that this may apply mostly to right-handed individuals only. All bets are off in left-handed or ambidextrous individuals.

[Climactic]

only by script here in russia. I also dont like the pills due to the price.

Alternatively, you can buy Demiurge online without a prescription. It is somewhat cheaper than Phenotropil. Demiurge is much more likely to be the real thing than bulk powder.

[Introspecta]

The Phenylpiracetam that I've been taking is Demiurge. My initial reaction to it was "wow this feels pretty much like Nefiracetam" but later after trying different doses I realized it was much different. It has more of a dopamine push too it at times usually hours after you've dosed. It does combine with Piracetam good but I can't say it was anything mind blowing but maybe my expectations were too high. The great thing about Phenylpiracetam was that even at 50mg I still got good effects from it. One time I dosed 200mgs in the morning then 200 afternoon and it felt like a little too much giving me a headache but I was also combining it with Coluracetam. Phenylpiracetam makes me feel light on my feet and I can see why it was banned as an athletic performance drug.

[alecnevsky]

It's great for left brained stuff though (e.g Programming, Math, etc) because it pretty thoroughly prevents your right brain from interrupting any thought processes.

Brilliant. I ordered some from Russia a while back to try to sub for my Pram 300mg + Ani 750mg combo. And, maybe, even mix the two.

Btw, Edgar, you don't really need a script from what I heard just like you don't really need to be of age to get alcohol etc etc etc.

Edited by alecnevsky, 12 November 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[golden1]

don't order from nootrabiolabs or whatever. it's just inert powder. just another heads up because if that scammer gets more money selling inert powder I'm going to be more pissed hahah.

Edited by golden1, 13 November 2012 - 12:08 AM.

[SuperjackDid_]

I wonder what the reason for the tolerance is?

Possibly due to DOWN-REGULATION of the NICOTINIC ACETYLCHOLINE (nACh) RECEPTOR

The existing issue is very little studies conducted on HUMANS, wherein most of the data relates to RODENT STUDIES; however, LIGAND BINDING experiments have shown that PHENYLPIRACETAM does indeed bind to this receptor; these were IN VITRO as opposed to IN VIVO, however they further support the findings via the RODENT STUDIES and are an indication that this could be how TOLERANCE occurs.

See here for example:

Drugs. 2010 Feb 12;70(3):287-312.

Piracetam and piracetam-like drugs: from basic science to novel clinical applications to CNS disorders.

Malykh AG, Sadaie MR.

Source

NovoMed Consulting, Silver Spring, Maryland 20904, USA.

EXTRACT FROM FULL TEXT

The affinity of phenylpiracetam to the nicotinitic acetylcholine (nACh) receptor, but not the glutamate NMDA subtype, was demonstrated in ligand binding experiments in vitro.

Any other racetam that cause massive UP-REGULATION of the NICOTINIC ACETYLCHOLINE (nACh) RECEPTOR to reverse down REGULATION ?

[alecnevsky]

Goes well with modafinil/armodafinil. Reading speed/comprehension increased in sleep-deprived (+100mg mod) state (via better focus, which seems to be very physical in my case--sitting up straight is easier, saccading text is more predictable, less fidgeting--leading to faster overall acquisition and synthesis of new material.) This independently is a brilliant discovery for me b/c I noticed how physically tired and uncomfortable I am almost all the time while cramming post 12+ hrs.

Modafinil is great on its own but has virtually no generic dopaminergic effects on me. I can be alert and critical while simultaneously feeling exhausted physically. Benchmarking modafinil to adderall alone (holding side effects constant) would probably lead me to choose add. just in virtue of the "thrust" toward work I can render from it--the delusion of "physical fitness" on it is very handy. With modafinil, school work seems very very lucid (why I take it) h/e the sheer physical exertion is felt regardless. PP + Modafinil (+ cofactors) is pretty promising so far.

Oh to address the right/left brain issue: I wouldn't say it's impossible to imagine horse racing or some other fantastical event in your head h/e the effect is such that you really do not want to or you're not inclined to do that. Thinking on PP becomes very categorical and it's easier to distribute information efficiently. I noticed how structured and active the reading process has become on it. It's not like a total creativity modulator but it (along with mod) definitely makes you into a kind of efficiency zombie. But then, remember, adderall just makes you into a crackhead if you are not accurately diagnosed.

Edited by alecnevsky, 27 February 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[digik]

I completely agree with alecnevsky regarding his reading comprehension speed and general processing speed enhancements. The innervating and dopamine-based mood enhancing effects have really been beneficial in my battle with anhedonia, lethargy, and motivation problems; so I'm really hoping future studies can better elucidate P-pam's complex modes of action. That's the nature of the racetam beast, though, it seems.

Following an initial ingestigation of phenylpiracetam by itself a few months ago followed by noopept, also singularly, I've since reintroduced phenylpiracetam in conjunction with 2x22mg noopept, 500mg citicoline, and 3x Perika SJW. Noopept seems to greatly potentiate and synergize with phenylpiracetam in a very balanced way by providing the motivation and DA effects I was missing from Noopept's lucidity, perception and social enhancement. I now experience the same benefits of 100mg with the smaller dose.

I was previously able to keep the tolerance at bay for 7-10 days at what ended up being well over 100mg after I finally obtained a scale and measured the estimated dose. I'm curious and hopeful to see how long I can push back tolerance this time.

Edited by digik, 30 April 2013 - 04:13 AM.

[DamnedOwl]

For anyone who has obtained phenylpiracetam powder - what does it look like? White? Off-white? Fine? Coarse?

I understand it's water-soluble too; is this correct?

[Introspecta]

The powder I recieved from Liftmode is Offwhite. I never opened the capsule from the Demiurge brand I first tried. I'm finding that the Demiurge seemed to be a much more pure product than the liftmode. On the New Star website they say they sent back some phenylpiracetam powder due to it being offwhite. I'm wondering if the Liftmode brand is possibly impure which is why i'm not getting the same effects from it. I wont say it wasn't active but definetly didn't feel as strong even when dosing up to 500mgs.

[Suirsuss]

word from sun nootropics is that they will be selling it soon.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I got some phenylpiracetam manufactured by T&W group. It was slightly tan colored, indicating it was slightly impure. It is supposed to be white. Still effective, however.

[deeptrance]

NewStarNootropics just announced that they have PP in stock, $34/5g or $59.60/10g, and they're claiming it's a high quality white powder, FWIW.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

NewStarNootropics just announced that they have PP in stock, $34/5g or $59.60/10g, and they're claiming it's a high quality white powder, FWIW.

Or just $53.04 for 10g with coupon code REDDIT.

[Stormy]

I stacked 200mg with some hordenine the other day, and it gave me a fairly exhilarating, albeit short lived, experience. Very speedy and alert, somewhat euphoric and manic. It made me sweat a bit (I was inside in the air conditioning and not working out, so nothing else really would have caused sweating) and I got fairly sleepy once the effects wore off, but it was definitely a fun, interesting experience. I'm not sure if it was a particularly good idea, since it also seemed to make my heart pound (phenynpiracetam by itself does no such thing to me, nor does hordenine) but figured the combo was worth mentioning here, just for the record.