150 replies to this topic

[formergenius]

Hi everyone. I stumbled across quite an interesting article whilst doing some searches.
I'll remain as succinct as possible about my situation which relates to the article, so without further adue:

After an experience with MDMA combined with Amphetamines I started getting anxious symptoms. After that, I did Amphetamines again. I know, I know, smite me. I regret it deeply to this day, no need to point out the stupidity of that action. This time I had a horrible amphetamine psychosis, which resulted in a cornucopia of cognitive deficits, including but not limited to HPPD, Anxiety, Depression and some PTSD symptoms. Ironically, my impaired cognitive function limits my comprehension of neurology and pharmacology. Even the simplest math problems seem alien to me, whereas I used to be the best mathematician of my class. Basically I beleive I totally deregulated my neurological homeostasis chemically, seeing as all of the aforementioned issues started manifesting themselves after a single (mainly after the psychotic dose of Amphetamine) experience with a chemical.


Have already tried:

(Dosages for the substances listed below I have forgotten mostly. I do remember extensively researching the timeframe and dosage needed for effect and acted accordingly.)

-Picamilon, (nothing more than placebo, possibly slightly reducing Modafinil irritability)
-5HTP (nothing more than placebo)
-Rhodiola Rosea (nothing)
-Relora (nothing)
-AlphaBrain, ingredients include Huperzine A, Vinpocetine, AC-11, Phosphatidylserine, Bacopa, L-Theanine (nothing)
-Noopept, at different dosages (nothing more than placebo, perhaps even increased irritability)
-L-Glutamine (nothing)
-Inositol&Choline combo (nothin)
-Vitamin B complex (nothing)
-Ginkgo Biloba (nothing)
-Piracetam, in different dosages, including megadoses suggested for anxiolytic properties on this forum (nothing)
-Tabernanthe Iboga, in the dosage required for psychospiritual effects (long story short: wtf?) Note: this was before the psychosis, I'm not thát reckless.
-Melatonin (different experiences, good for sleep, sometimes strange dreams, no profound changes)
-Prozac, 6 weeks low dose trial (What a useless waste of time waiting for that sugar pill to work)
-Tramadol tried couple of times, doses up to 600mg. (Just get plain tired, have strange dreams, possible mini-seizures whilst asleep, out-of-body experiences.)
-Modafinil, dosages in 50 and 100mg, both Alertec and Modalert (A very interesting substance. Math problems were easier to solve, almost to a level of former ability. Slightly motivating. Have had different experiences with it though, the first time I felt quite peaceful, and managed to clear my mind for longer than a millisecond for the first time in months. After that, higher levels of irritatability, linguistic setbacks, sometimes insomnia, tinnitus. Not a very consistent effect. Does make monotoneous tasks easier. However, I've also spent 12 hours straight playing an RPG whilst on Modafinil. Allthough not exactly what I'm looking for, it did give me noticeable improvements in different area's, which indicates to me that there is definitely something that could help me.)
-Selegiline, 5mg dosages, taken over 2 consecutive days (First day oral. Second day sublingually. Decided after to refrain from recklessly screwing around with MAOI's, untill properly educated on the subject. Besides, I love cheese. 2 days later, I had one of the best days in ages. Felt calmer, optimistic, and grateful. Life seemed a little more vivid. This might have been endogenous. The optimism slowly morphed into somewhat speedy feeling, and I couldn't stop thinking about the Amphetamine metabolites of Selegiline, even though in such small amounts it is most likely impossible to induce psychosis, an irrational anxiety lingered.)
-Meditation (this is something I have found to be very healthy and rewarding, and practiced even before the mishappenings. Unfortunately, the peaceful vivid realms of calmness and contentment are something I've been having much trouble reaching ever since psychosis. Yes, I know, meditation is not something to achieve, it is a state of being, it is not a verb, anyone can do it, it's a state of realization, there's no failing meditation, etc. As far as language allows me to portray: I am not experiencing formerly enjoyed states of awareness whilst in meditation. Nonetheless, I remain somewhat dedicated, and put aside time for it mostly every night.)
-Excercise, once daily jogging for 30-60 minutes, plus some stretches, push-ups, minor weightlifting. Sustained for 1 month. (Nothing, whereas formerly I would most enjoy excercise and have feelings of pride and accomplishment, felt refreshed and overall a good feeling. I used to work 8-12 hours a day, physically intensive work (sailing, snorkeling, stocking up, running) and would often go scuba-diving, swimming, jogging, weightlifting, beach volleyball, etc. in my free time.)
-A nice hot mug of harden the F up. Please leave such comments for your own amusement, thankyou. I've had quite the share of that beverage throughout the years, but it seems I have built a tolerance to it. Too bad, it tasted great!


I have a supply of most of the substances listed above.
This stuff has been going on for way too long and I need to get a move on with my life.
The aforementioned article strengthened my theory that there is indeed neurophysiological deficits present in my cranial chamber.
In accordance with the article, I am considering the following pharmaceutical endeavours:

Tianeptine A SSRE lacking significant anticholinergic activity. Action on NMDA and AMPA sites. Hypothesized to reverse impaired neuroplasticity caused by stress.
Propoten/TenotenNovel Russian drugs exhibiting neuroprotective, anxiolytic and anti-depressive properties. The studies are hard to find, I'll add more when I come across them.
Afobazole Also see Wiki page. Anxiolytic, neuroprotective, and best of all, Russian.

As mentioned before, my cognition is impaired. Subsequently, any reviewing of my ideas by someone who's intelligence is intact, would be greatly appreciated. Mine seems to have taken a break. I understand using these subtances lies at my own discretion and responsibility. I am also seeing a (useless) physician and have been referred to a psychiatrist, who I will inform on these matters.

Questions:
1. What, to your knowledge, is the mest method of approach? As in, which of these substances, or a combination thereof, will provide the best efficacy according to your insights?
2. Have you ever used any of these substances? If so, please refer me to a written experience.
3. Wherein do you see danger in using these substances? For example, does ingesting all three simultanously seem to conflict by there mechanism of action?
4. If you advize against these ideas, what do you propose as a better alternative?


I thank you all in advance for any input. At the very least I hope to have at least presented an interesting comprehensive article to you, and some interesting substances. And as a reminder: be mindful of your Amphetamine use!

[nupi]

Sounds kind of like atypical depression to me. Standard dosage Prozac (20-40mg) works wonder for me - definitely not a sugar pill, not at all. I have tried most of the stuff on your list, with the exception of Noopept, Selegiline and Modafinil, with rather limited impact.

Even though I am not at all convinced that shrinks help much (therapy usually boils down to that nice hot cup of harden the fuck up...), I would go see a professional before you embark on further chemical experiments, in particular because there might be an underlying physical problem that you could fix...

Edited by nupi, 03 February 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[formergenius]

Sounds kind of like atypical depression to me. Standard dosage Prozac (20-40mg) works wonder for me - definitely not a sugar pill, not at all. I have tried most of the stuff on your list, with the exception of Noopept, Selegiline and Modafinil, with rather limited impact.

Even though I am not at all convinced that shrinks help much (therapy usually boils down to that nice hot cup of harden the fuck up...), I would go see a professional before you embark on further chemical experiments, in particular because there might be an underlying physical problem that you could fix...

Regardless of the diagnosis, whatever is going on in my brain is causing an inability to function. I'm glad to hear you've found Prozac to work for you. Based on numerous studies and experiences of both my own and others, I personally highly doubt it's efficacy. Here's an article, albeit not a scientific one, can't seem to find that as quickly.
I am currently involved with professionals, but the process is rather slow. It takes a week to see a doctor, another to get a referral, etc. Also, I highly doubt I will be referred to a Neurologist. My doctor tried prescribing me Mirtazapine, of which the effects consist of my symptoms. Proves to me the inadequacy of professionality, hence the conducting of my own research. Only reason I am involved with professionals is for the monitoring of my physical health whilst conducting these experiments. Once I can think clearly, I'll perform self-therapy if you wish to call it so.

[nupi]

None of the generally used antidepressants has a particularly high efficacy - we simply do not know enough (yet) to predict which drug will help what patient. So it is mostly trial and error. It took me numerous tries to figure out that Prozac was the right drug for me - I too was initially hesitant because of the bad reputation it has and wanted to try the comparably better rated Lexapro. Well guess what, I have barely any side effects from Prozac but slept all day on Lexapro...

Long story short: studies with antidepressants are unlikely to fully apply to you, specifically. Besides, the SNRI and SSRI take a couple of weeks to show whether they work or not. If you want faster acting, there's MAOI but I doubt you really want to go that route right now. I also highly doubt any doc would prescribe any of the russian drugs considering they are not even on the market in Western Europe.

[formergenius]

Ohh no they are not on the market here. But you gotta love internet
I understand the ambiguity of the matter, and that when doctors prescribe medication, it is mostly speculation, trial and error.
Tianeptine specifically (and GLYX-13/Ketamine) opened up new insights to the exact neurophysiology of depression and anxiety. It does go farther than the Monoamine Hypothesis.
The neuroplasticity hypothesis supports the findings that effect is only exerted after a prolonged incubation period with anti-depressants, as many anti-depressants do alter neuroplasticity.
I rather keep MAOI's as a last resort. Currently I am placing an order for Tianeptine. Safety has been studied, and it seems to lack severe side-effects.

Anyway, perhaps I should post this on a different forum with more affinity for pharmacology.
Nonetheless, appreciate the replies

[Rior]

This topic caused me to look up Tenoten and Propoten, and both of those look pretty incredible. Why is there not more known about them/why are they not used more?

[nupi]

I rather keep MAOI's as a last resort. Currently I am placing an order for Tianeptine. Safety has been studied, and it seems to lack severe side-effects.

That seems to be the case - but the dosing schedule is a major PITA. Also, it's kind of pricey, even online.

[jadamgo]

Sounds kind of like atypical depression to me. Standard dosage Prozac (20-40mg) works wonder for me - definitely not a sugar pill, not at all. I have tried most of the stuff on your list, with the exception of Noopept, Selegiline and Modafinil, with rather limited impact.

Even though I am not at all convinced that shrinks help much (therapy usually boils down to that nice hot cup of harden the fuck up...), I would go see a professional before you embark on further chemical experiments, in particular because there might be an underlying physical problem that you could fix...

For sucky therapists, yes. There are some who believe if you make a person feel bad enough, they'll change. But despite what you see on TV shows about "interventions" for drug users, this is not generally an effective approach. Some people improve despite being subjected to such malpractice, but it's more the exception than the rule.

Good therapy helps you solve problems, not "toughen up" in order to merely withstand them. I'd never suggest that anybody actually pay somebody to tell them to toughen the fuck up, even in nicer sounding words. Most everyone has already tried toughening the fuck up before deciding to try therapy, and if it had worked then they wouldn't be paying somebody for presumably-better help.

The rule of thumb is that if you walk out of therapy sessions and don't usually feel more calm, optimistic, and (this part is important:) more pragmatically equipped to actually improve your situation, you're not getting your money's worth -- no matter how much you paid.

As for pharmacological approaches to reversing brain damage, start with tianeptine -- there's a reason so many people rave about it. Word-of-mouth marketing doesn't just appear out of thin air; people have to really love something to rave about it without getting paid anything. Just know that the standard 3x12.5mg/day dosage may require some fiddling.

You could also try selegiline again, at sublingual doses of anywhere from 2.5mg/day to 10mg/day. It was my experience that no cheese reaction ever occurred even at sustained 10mg/day sublingual doses -- tranylcypromine and high-dose phenelzine are notable offenders in the world of drug reactions but selegiline, even at high anti-depressant doses, appears far less likely to interact with noradrenergic compounds. Now serotonergic compounds, on the other hand... don't mix those with selegiline.

Speaking of MAOIs, there's always moclobemide. Though it's more of a straight-up antidepressant/anxiolytic, and less of a direct neuroplasticity enhancer.

[owtsgmi]

I agree with the previous poster that you should try selegiline again, or even better, rasagiline. Rasagiline is a cleaner selegiline. I have taken both and currently take small sublingual dosages of rasagiline every other day. I too, have taken most of the stuff you listed over the last few years and I too have boxes of all that crap laying around. From your initial post, it looks like the only thing on your list that helped was the selegiline, which means you have dopamine issues. Focus on that and not on serotonin. I too went down that path (e.g., 5 HTP) for way too long.

The initial great response which leads to the edginess feeling with dopaminergics can only be overcome one way to my knowledge - using NMDA antagonists . I take very low dosages of memantine (1/8 pill sublingual every 4th day or so) and it completely resets any tolerance I get to the rasagiline. The only problem is that if you take too much it is very dissassociative - it took awhile to get the right balance.

Uridine/DHA works to modulate the dopamine. CILTEP and piracetam/ALCAR finish up the (noot) stack.

Good luck!

Edited by owtsgmi, 04 February 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[formergenius]

This topic caused me to look up Tenoten and Propoten, and both of those look pretty incredible. Why is there not more known about them/why are they not used more?

I believe it's because they are rather new, and little is published in English about them. But they indeed look really promising. And the price is ridiculously low. 20-30 dollars for a pack.

That seems to be the case - but the dosing schedule is a major PITA. Also, it's kind of pricey, even online.

You mean having to take it 3 times a day? Less of a PITA to me than avoiding cheese :P
And it's less expensive than the Alertec I've got. Money's not an issue to me. Aside from ordering GLYX-13 at $100/mg, it won't be an issue
I must admit, after having bought so many things that simply didn't do a thing, getting the finances is becoming difficult. I can now only afford ordering one, perhaps two substances a month. My finances come from a supportive wealthy relative who is becoming increasingly doubtful that there might be something that works for me, after so many failed experiments.

As for pharmacological approaches to reversing brain damage, start with tianeptine -- there's a reason so many people rave about it. Word-of-mouth marketing doesn't just appear out of thin air; people have to really love something to rave about it without getting paid anything. Just know that the standard 3x12.5mg/day dosage may require some fiddling.

You could also try selegiline again, at sublingual doses of anywhere from 2.5mg/day to 10mg/day. It was my experience that no cheese reaction ever occurred even at sustained 10mg/day sublingual doses -- tranylcypromine and high-dose phenelzine are notable offenders in the world of drug reactions but selegiline, even at high anti-depressant doses, appears far less likely to interact with noradrenergic compounds. Now serotonergic compounds, on the other hand... don't mix those with selegiline.

Speaking of MAOIs, there's always moclobemide. Though it's more of a straight-up antidepressant/anxiolytic, and less of a direct neuroplasticity enhancer.

It took me a while to find a reliable Tianeptine vendor, seems I've chosen the wrong time to start looking into that option. You know, with the Russian druggies and all. Seriously though, if Tianeptine is that awesome, why would they choose to shoot it up rather than taking it orally?
Anyway I've placed an EMS order and will post back with the results of my trials. Hoping to finally experience something sustainable. Aside from Modafinil, I'm really starting to think the anti-depressant business is nothing but a market for placebo. Ah well, tianeptine looks very promising. Then again, so did a lot of other things that didn't work.
Would you say combining Tianeptine with Tenoten/Propoten as asking for trouble? They seem to work by different mechanisms from what I find, allthough I don't trust my judgement that well these days.

What is the likelihood of Tianeptine, or any substance or combination thereof for that matter, will reverse any damage done to my brain permanently? As in enabling me to live without medication? My plan of action crudeley consists of the following: Medication -> Medication+Meditation -> Meditation+Having an awesome life.

As for Selegiline, good to hear you've had no lethal interactions. Seems my anxiety can get extremely irrational at times. I'm going to keep the Selegiline as plan B for now. Really don't like the idea of Amphetamine metabolites, and the transdermal administration is not available in my country.
I've considered Moclobemide, yet it seems less ideal than Tianeptine. It is somewhere on the bottom of my list for now.

I agree with the previous poster that you should try selegiline again, or even better, rasagiline. Rasagiline is a cleaner selegiline. I have taken both and currently take small sublingual dosages of rasagiline every other day. I too, have taken most of the stuff you listed over the last few years and I too have boxes of all that crap laying around. From your initial post, it looks like the only thing on your list that helped was the selegiline, which means you have dopamine issues. Focus on that and not on serotonin. I too went down that path (e.g., 5 HTP) for way too long.

The initial great response which leads to the edginess feeling with dopaminergics can only be overcome one way to my knowledge - using NMDA antagonists . I take very low dosages of memantine (1/8 pill sublingual every 4th day or so) and it completely resets any tolerance I get to the rasagiline. The only problem is that if you take too much it is very dissassociative - it took awhile to get the right balance.

Uridine/DHA works to modulate the dopamine. CILTEP and piracetam/ALCAR finish up the (noot) stack.

Good luck!

Ahh Rasagiline! I was considering that as well. Haven't really researched it as much though. What is your experience with it?
Now I know I stated money was not an issue, but Rasagiline is leaning towards the expensive part of the story. Thus I rather keep it as a last approach.
As I said, my trial with Selegiline was not of sufficient length to attribute the effects to it. I as well think it might be a dopamine issue, yet seeing as elevated dopamine levels are usually associated with psychosis, I'm quite weary of tinkering around with those levels. The Tianeptine choice wat not made upon it's proposed serotonergic action I must mention. NMDA action has interested me lately, as GLYX-13 also seems to work by modulating NMDA. Yet that's an agonist.
Tianeptine also works on NMDA. How exactly, is under further investigation I believe.
I believe Memantine is also used by some to lower Modafinil tolerance?


Thanks for all the replies guys!
My brain is having an extra scoop of mushiness today, so my apologies for the level of incoherency in my replies.
Thanks to Modafinil, I've at least been able to read today I'll see to it to respond in a more adequate matter tomorrow.

[jadamgo]

It took me a while to find a reliable Tianeptine vendor, seems I've chosen the wrong time to start looking into that option. You know, with the Russian druggies and all. Seriously though, if Tianeptine is that awesome, why would they choose to shoot it up rather than taking it orally?
Anyway I've placed an EMS order and will post back with the results of my trials. Hoping to finally experience something sustainable. Aside from Modafinil, I'm really starting to think the anti-depressant business is nothing but a market for placebo. Ah well, tianeptine looks very promising. Then again, so did a lot of other things that didn't work.
Would you say combining Tianeptine with Tenoten/Propoten as asking for trouble? They seem to work by different mechanisms from what I find, allthough I don't trust my judgement that well these days.

What is the likelihood of Tianeptine, or any substance or combination thereof for that matter, will reverse any damage done to my brain permanently? As in enabling me to live without medication? My plan of action crudeley consists of the following: Medication -> Medication+Meditation -> Meditation+Having an awesome life.

As for Selegiline, good to hear you've had no lethal interactions. Seems my anxiety can get extremely irrational at times. I'm going to keep the Selegiline as plan B for now. Really don't like the idea of Amphetamine metabolites, and the transdermal administration is not available in my country.
I've considered Moclobemide, yet it seems less ideal than Tianeptine. It is somewhere on the bottom of my list for now.

No, combining antidepressants with differing mechanisms of action is hardly "asking for trouble." Quite the opposite -- a multi-pronged attack on a problem is more likely to cut off its causes for existence, and thus end it.

Whenever you find something that works, and helps cut through fog (even if very slowly) to find your way back to clarity, you can trust that this approach will help you permanently repair both brain damage and maladaptive learned behaviors. Nobody can forecast for certain if tianeptine will be part of this solution for you, but it has been part of the solution for enough people to get quite the good reputation. It's worth a try, especially if combined with meditation.

Oh BTW, if you can find a way, you could also try ladostigil.

[formergenius]

No, combining antidepressants with differing mechanisms of action is hardly "asking for trouble." Quite the opposite -- a multi-pronged attack on a problem is more likely to cut off its causes for existence, and thus end it.

Whenever you find something that works, and helps cut through fog (even if very slowly) to find your way back to clarity, you can trust that this approach will help you permanently repair both brain damage and maladaptive learned behaviors. Nobody can forecast for certain if tianeptine will be part of this solution for you, but it has been part of the solution for enough people to get quite the good reputation. It's worth a try, especially if combined with meditation.

Oh BTW, if you can find a way, you could also try ladostigil.

Ladostigil? Isn't that a research chemical, probably only manufactured in China? Can't remember, seems I've googled it before.
Thanks for the reassuring words Tomorrow I will place an order for Tenoten. Ordering Tianeptine cut me 3 bucks short of 37 dollars. Might I add, that's 17 dollars shipping fee. Despite it's proclaimed instant effect, it is advized to use for at least a month. That's roughly 100 euro's worth of Tenoten, if taking 2 tablets 4 times a day.

Sigh..
In the name of research!

Edited by formergenius, 05 February 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[jadamgo]

Research indeed! Let us know how it goes

[formergenius]

A quick update:
Today is day 6 on Tianeptine. Having 3 consecutive days with hangovers makes it hard to differentiate what exactly it is doing. On day 2 I noticed a definite lifting of mood and anxiolytic action, plus some motivation. Went grocery shopping and didn't feel awkward for the first time since.. well, a long time ago. Or at least, a lot less awkward. Today I notice no discernable effect of Tianeptine, still feeling as if someone stole a slice of my brain (baseline). I notice I'm bored as hell though. And I've been having strange dreams the past two nights. I'll give it another week or two, moreover I might as well finish the month's supply I've got.

The day before yesterday I placed an order for Phenibut. Now I know I would want to avoid this stuff, but I figured a fortnightly holiday of my anguish is well deserved. Last time I was able to relax has been over a year ago. And I do read of people who report being able to use it 3 days a week w/o tolerance or withdrawals, so that might be worth testing. Gonna be cautious on that one though.

As for Tenoten, I haven't placed an order yet, as the retailers seem quite dodgy. AptekaDome seems the way to go, but have their payment system down for the next 2 weeks. My patience is slowly dissipating, so I might end up ordering from PharmOutlet.

Another adjunct I am considering as soon as it's available is CBD. Yet it also seems to work on NMDA, and my comprehension of the NMDA pathways is ridiculously low, so I wonder whether this is safe to combine with Tianeptine?

Any other reccomendations for augmentation would be greatly appreciated
As I cannot update my first post, I forgot to mention I've also tried L-Glutamine and Garum Armoricum, neither of which had any effect.

Edited by formergenius, 18 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[jadamgo]

CBD is pretty safe. It has no known interactions. Same for tianeptine, in fact.

[formergenius]

Thanks jadamgo, I figured so, but it can never hurt to double-check.

So far I've been making progress in my plan of attack so to speak.
Two days ago I took Phenibut, and was soaring in the clouds. Glad to have found something for occasional relief that works. Again, I won't be using it more frequently than once a week, preferably fortnightly. I'll post a link to the Erowid report I made once and if they decide to put it online.

As for Tenoten, I've been lazy about the matter and haven't ordered any yet.

I have purchased a fish oil supplement (1600mg Omega3 of which 288mg EPA and 192mg DHA, 400mg Omega6 of which 80mg GLA), but I only plan on adding it after having assesed Tianeptine's effect. So far, Tianeptine hasn't proven to do much for me, but I'll give it more time.

I also reconsidered adding L-Theanine, specifically Suntheanine to my regimen. Seeing as AlphaBrain's L-Theanine content was on the low side, and not of the Suntheanine brand, I figured I would give it the benefit of the doubt. So I have an order of Suntheanine on it's way now.

Lastly, a rainbow colored moose has revisited Kava Kava as a potential substance, after having read this thread. The moose is disappointed that it is illegal in his country. The moose disregards petty laws, and is currently making an effort to acquire high-quality Kava. He investigates the matter further, as this moose coincedentally takes the same supplements as I do, for any interactions. Proper dosage also lies in his interests.

If all goes as planned, my eventual stack will look something like this:

Morning
Vitamin B complex
Tianeptine 12,5 mg
Tenoten 2 pills
Fish Oil 1 pill
Suntheanine 100mg

Noon
Tianeptine 12,5 mg
Tenoten 2 pills
Suntheanine 100mg

Afternoon
Tenoten 2 pills
Suntheanine 100mg

Evening
Tianeptine 12,5mg
Tenoten 2 pills
Fish Oil 1 pill
Suntheanine 100mg
CBD 1,25 mg

Still looks rather empty though.
Not much to add really, but any input would be appreciated by the moose and I

[magniloquentc0unt]

Fellow tianeptine user, how is it going for you?

[magniloquentc0unt]

(Just wanted to add that im in a similar cognitive decline as you mentioned: my abstract thinking skills have been totally compromised. I think the cause is MDMA (4-5times), SSRI(8months) and/or Weed (3years, 4-5 times a month, very weak stuff)).
The tianeptine is doing good in my case, im at week 10th, but id like to add something extra

[formergenius]

I kicked Tianeptine a long time ago. Didn't give it a fair trial though, and any effects noticed were mild but positive.

Currently I'm on Levetiracetam, and might be adding Guanfacine soon.
If it's just brainfog you're dealing with, others might be more able to help you in that aspect.
If it's depersonalization and HPPD, let me know and I can give you some further references.

Cheers, good to hear Tianeptine works for you

[magniloquentc0unt]

never heard of guanfacine... guess its not available where i live! brainfog is something im slowling improving at... the problem remains abstract thinking.. my mind goes completely blank!!! i have intuitions etc but i have unbelievable difficulty in following abstract reasoning... or starting to reason in that sense myself... im pretty sure my case has an aspect of depersonalization/derealization, but its not as commonly described... mor of a distance from myself, kind of numbness in toughts and feelings

[golden1]

I noted that you seem to not respond to -racetams, but I feel like I should mention that for me it it highly antidepressant, anxiety and stress reducing, and ... it certainly stops any slight hppd I have the day after psychedelics and will even attenuate psychedeilcs(which changing them, in a pretty cool way). The effect builds greatly over time. Same with cdp-choline, feels like its healing your brain more each day(ime).

aniracetam acts on the 5ht2a(it seems to modulate it to a "good level") importantly in regards to hppd-ish effects. It also has positive interactions with dopamine receptors.

lions mane also was very worthwhile when i tried it for a couple months.

I mention these mostly because they're sustainable, havent been mentioned, and for me their effects build with time rather than dissipating.

[Perception-Is-Reality]

I would suggest trying cerebrolysin. It helps stoke patients rebuild their brains, maybe it can you rebuild yours.

[formergenius]

Seems I've abandoned this post.. Haha. I've abandoned most of the aforementioned substances. Especially Tenoten in retrospect was a waste of money.. At the time I didn't quite understand the nature of the word 'homeopathy' I guess.

In the meantime I've experimented with a number of things. Not really having a stack at the moment, just taking stuff as-needed really. Doesn't allow for proper evaluation alas. Keepers for me are: Magnesium (Malate), CBD, Damiana, B-complex, Coluracetam, and a bad-ass multi-vitamin I found (Source of Life Gold Multi-Tabs). Levetiracetam didn't do squat for me alas, so I'll be dropping that soon.

As for Cerebrolysin: Yes I'd try that if it weren't for the cumbersome administration methods.. Cognition is so bad that I don't trust myself doing it properly.
And Aniracetam; I'm considering for in the future, but for now I've other experiments on the agenda.

I can't remember half of what I've tried in the meantime. Tried Kratom yesterday.. Fun stuff but of course unsustainable as an anxiolytic. Also bought some Scutellaria Lateriflora (Skullcap), which I'm planning to try out next week as a tea.

My next attempt will be St John's Wort (Perika brand) combined with Ginkgo Biloba (Ginkgold). I tried Ginkgo before but I'm pretty sure it was low-grade cheap supermarket brand stuff, and the recent topic on the Egb 761 Ginkgo had me reconsider it. SJW for the anxiety/"depression", and Ginkgo for cognition. The main reason I'll be trying this combo is because they both contain Amentoflavone; a naturally occurring opioid antagonist. Think it was at the Kappa receptors, which specifically are implicated in depersonalization.

In the meantime I've been trying to set up having rTMS done, and a qEEG. Also, Nalmefene will soon be marketed here, so I'll give that a shot.
All in all still little to no progress, but I'll keep trying.. Not sure about this thread title though.. must've been a theory of mine when I posted it.

[Babychris]

Bro you're from Netherlands I LOVE THIS COUNTRY haha.

Anyway you should'nt take too much stuff in the meantime/same time ! You'll never see improvement like this trust me.

Nevertheless I'm pretty sure that you could find something to help you. Did you give a shot to bacopa ? First time I tried it I found it too sedative and nothing positive about it, but now I find that it help with Chronic/general anxiety and PTSD
St John's wort is very good ! it will force you to stick with a limited stack and I find that it's serotoninergic effect are quite pleasant. Ginkgo will not help that much but there is nothing so harmful about it.

I wish I could buy some Russian stuff too, but it's so expensive, Damn God whyy ..
By the way what to you think about coluracetam ?

[formergenius]

Haha wanna trade? I just got stuck here for the time being.

Yes I know that.. Really need to work on my patience. But for my next trial I'll be very strict about things, so I'll see how that pans out.
I had AlphaBrain which contained Bacopa.. I'm not sure that was sufficient or of high-quality though. Seems like something that would take months before being noticeable.
And alright.. I'm curious to see what SJW will bring about. Not sure the serotonergic effects are what I'm after though. Here's the thread that made me change my mind on Ginkgo. My experiences with Coluracetam have varied surprisingly widely. I have documented them here. When it works, it works well. I'd recommend it.

[Perception-Is-Reality]

It seems to me that your spending a lot of money on supplements that possess a much lower efficacy than what you desire. I don't think your going to find any herbal remedy or Racetam to be your panacea. If you are unwilling to perform a simple intramusclar injection, (for cere) than I suggest you try nsi-189?

[Babychris]

High quality Bacopa has some immediate effect, it still not "the panacea" though..

I wish I could try very soon NSI-189 sounds so promising

[Flex]

Beside Cerebrolysin, Benzatropine has been recently foud to induce and/or enhance re-myelination.

http://www.nature.co...re12647_F3.html

Gotu Kola sounds on the paper promising, it is allegedly a CCK-B antagonist among other effects. Exept a sedation I did´nt felt any great effects.

But you could give it a try. Because papers dont lie ;-)

Rasagiline seems to restore damaged brains:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17055733

The anti-Parkinson monoamine oxidase (MAO)-B inhibitor rasagiline (Azilect) was shown to possess neuroprotective activities, involving the induction of brain-derived- and glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factors (BDNF, GDNF). Employing conventional neurochemical techniques, transcriptomics and proteomic screening tools combined with a biology-based clustering method, we show that rasagiline, given chronically post-MPTP (N-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine), exerts neurorescue/neurotrophic activity in mice midbrain dopamine neurons. Rasagiline induced the activation of cell signaling mediators associated with neurotrophic factors responsive-tyrosine kinase receptor (Trk) pathway including ShcC, SOS, AF6, Rin1 and Ras and the increase in the Trk-downstream effector phosphatidylinositol 3 kinase (PI3K) protein. Confirmatory Western and immunohistochemical analyses indicated activation of the substrate of PI3K, Akt and phosphorylative inactivation of glycogen synthase kinase-3beta and Raf1. Thus, the activation of Ras-PI3K-Akt survival pathway may contribute to rasagiline-mediated neurorescue effect. It is interesting to determine whether a similar effect is seen in parkinsonian patients after long-term treatment with rasagiline.

Edited by Flex, 14 November 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[Flex]

This above could be especially for you interresting, because Amphetamine causes a release of the neurotoxin MPTP, which is produced by your body and kills and damages Brain tissue. ( correct me if Im wrong)

Unless my own dissapointing experiences with Psychatrist I would suggest You to keep try to find one Doc if the current is bad.

Wish You the best Kind Regards

I had a similair situation once.

I went, because of social isolation caused by Weed, to a stupid Doc who perscribed me Risperidone.

It was the hell I didnt know anything about the brain and tought that i had a braindamage.

With this Impaired brain ive panicky done my own research through pubmed, swallowed a lot of different supplements; it was a hard time.. and it took 2 years to recover.

A year ago I done some "research" with Ethylphendiate, a ritalin analog to fix longterm impairment caused by Weed in the Adolescence and now i´ve destroyed something which caused an atypical depression.

Hard to describe, you are not sad or something, moreover you got that pain in the chest which you are unable to stand it for 1 second !

its like the opposite of euphoria or love, its in the same region of the "chest".

I´ve lost emphaty and love to a extend and my cognition and my memory as well to a lesser extend.

So same game again, ive tried this time again supplements and a lot of meds too. The most dindt helped or worsened the pain, even ginseng.

It took 6 months to assume that I´ve damaged the Striatum.

Weed and Amitrypline helped transiently and only Lithium had a modulatory effect. I had/ stil have no money for Cerebrolysin.

The Docs here in germany are just bad and incompetend and werent able and or didnt wanted to help me.

Now im trying my luck at Doctor No.5 -.-

Edited by Flex, 14 November 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Lemon.]

Hey,

I would LOVE to get Selegiline, but how can I get it?. Can I just walk into a doctor, pay him and he write me a script?.
What's the story , PLEASE?

thank you !!!