64 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

I've made several five-figure cashes and one six-figure cash from online poker tournaments in the past years but It's been unreliable income. I'm now looking to get my game together with aid of nootropics and supporting lifestyle, to make it solid income. I feel like I've got natural ability to be successful but have yet to figure out maintaining optimal function to continuous profitable playing. Multi-table no-limit Texas Hold'em tournament poker has been the most successful form for me but cash game heads up Hold'em and short-handed pot limit Omaha I can see being possible valuable choices too.

I have 5 x $200 and 1 x 162$ tickets to use for the upcoming GSOP tournaments at Ongame network. I will play the $7m Pokerstars Sunday Million 7th anniversary tourney March 3th. I'm interested in playing live tournaments and will be trying to attend them through qualifiers. For this year my goal is to cash over $100k profit and be a profitable player in NLHE/PLO 1K cash games.

With supplements and nootropics I'm looking for increased focus, calm energy, superior learning and thinking capacity.

My current stack I'm having beneficial is looking like this:

Foundation - building blocks

Hemp protein - precursor amino acids
Green super food supplement - vitamins and nutrition support
Creatine 10g - brain power
Fish oil 700mg

Mood - stable and positive thinking

St. John's Wort 300mg x 3

Adaptogens - general support and sustained energy

Jiaogulan
Cordyceps
Rhodiola
Schisandra

Nootropics - improving cognition, intelligence and decision-making

CILTEP
Forskolin 10mg
Artichoke extract 450mg
Tyrosine or Mucuna (L-DOPA)

Noopept 10mg
CDP-choline 250-500mg
Pregnenolone 50mg

Stimulants as needed - getting through long sessions without losing touch

a) Caffeine + Theanine
b) Craze / Dendrobium-based stim
c) Herbal stimulant (Muira puama, Ginkgo...)

Anxiolytics as needed - to keep calm and prevent tilt without losing focus

Theanine
Gotu Kola
Ashwagandha

Other

Royal Jelly
Magnesium
Green tea extract (EGCG)




Considering...

- Other adaptogens
- Racetams
- Sulbutiamine
- Hordenine
- Uridine
- D-Aspartic acid
- Lion's mane

Edited by Galaxyshock, 19 February 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[jadamgo]

Looks good to me. Are these all things you're familiar with taking? Never mess around with new substances of any type right before important events -- the best plan is to take a stack for several weeks (maybe taking 1-2 days per week off) leading up to something important, so you're at steady state when the event comes. The thing you need most is stability of mind, because a whole lot of things are going to change when you're in the hot seat. Your state of mind is going to be different from usual, but if you're taking a familiar supplement stack, it will help you be in a more familiar state of mind and that will help you remember what you've learned better. (State-dependent learning -- skills you've learned in a given environment will be most usable in a similar environment than in a vastly different one. This applies to the inner landscape of your mind just as much as it applies to the location you're working at.)

[Galaxyshock]

Looks good to me. Are these all things you're familiar with taking? Never mess around with new substances of any type right before important events -- the best plan is to take a stack for several weeks (maybe taking 1-2 days per week off) leading up to something important, so you're at steady state when the event comes. The thing you need most is stability of mind, because a whole lot of things are going to change when you're in the hot seat. Your state of mind is going to be different from usual, but if you're taking a familiar supplement stack, it will help you be in a more familiar state of mind and that will help you remember what you've learned better. (State-dependent learning -- skills you've learned in a given environment will be most usable in a similar environment than in a vastly different one. This applies to the inner landscape of your mind just as much as it applies to the location you're working at.)

I've grown accustomated to these current supplements and know how I respond to them. I'm figuring out how to use them for the best benefit and possible additions until I begin to play more full-time. What I want is a nootropic regimen to support professional-level poker playing, sustainably improving my game to beat even high stakes tables. Whether that is possible we'll see, I will provide results and subjectively-measured anecdotes of nootropics here. I'm looking to get feedback and suggestions from other poker-driven people, whether through PM or publicly.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 19 February 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I'm at the moment playing $50,000 highroller tournament and in the money. Have ingested my usual stack today but coming down from the stimulants. I would be interested in some longer-lasting Craze-level focus and energy enhancer..

Edited by Galaxyshock, 20 February 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[BigJohn]

Have you considered oxiracetam for logical thinking and mental energy? Or Aniracetam for creative thinking and heightened mood? Or pramiracetam for intense focus? I currently stack aniracetam and oxiracetam together with good results. Be careful with noopept, I've read about some sexual side effects that come along with that. Not to mention brain fog after you stop taking it.

[jadamgo]

A large loading dose of aniracetam would be suitable several hours before you're up to play, and then perhaps some microdosing would be helpful whenever you have breaks between games. The initial sedating effect of aniracetam isn't suitable for much other than meditation or napping, but the delayed stimulating action would be very well-suited for poker or anything else requiring sustained vigilance.

[Galaxyshock]

I'm definitely interested in trying racetams. I'll be ordering at least some aniracetam soon.

For full-table tournaments I think stable sustained clarity and keeping mood heightened would be optimal, it can be disheartening to play long session and finish without money. I haven't accustomated to play more than 4 tables simultaneously but I think it's pretty ideal amount for me to stay in track. For heads-up cash game creativity and intense focus could be the most beneficial adjusting.

Noopept is pretty wierd, it's strongly anxiolytic to me yet sometimes I get this intelligent HD-vision state where I feel like I could examine every single detail in front of me with next-level clarity. The anxiolysis however is also very passivating and I feel like nothing snaps me out of it. That is when dosing in the morning. Sometimes with redosing I get a boost and motivation from it though.. I've yet to figure out how to get the best out of it and is it long-term cumulative in effect or more of a stimulant-like.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 20 February 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Timeless_007]

Are you worried about tolerance levels? And do you plan on strategically cycling off each supplement, cycling off all at once or not cycling at all?
I'm curious because I just started taking nootropics and I can't find very much information regarding this.

[Galaxyshock]

I don't see tolerance being issue with anything here really. I cycle those stimulants and adaptogens as needed and take days off from CILTEP for example. Noopept I'm planning to use for couple months and then take a break, meanwhile experimenting racetams etc. I'm not familiar with tolerance to them though... Rest of the stack is mostly precursors and "brain nutrition" that will only add-up in long-term and things like Magnesium and Theanine are tolerance preventive.

[bootdoc]

I am very interested in seeing how your game improves. Not to turn this into a poker thread but how much do you split between tables and theory?
And I do look forward to seeing your progress. This post actually motivated me to register!

[Galaxyshock]

I've been lazy with the theory aspect, I need to get back on track with that. Perhaps purchasing cardrunners or deucescracked membership soon. For now my main focus is going to be on the GSOP tourneys that begin sunday.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 22 February 2013 - 09:01 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I got a final-table result in GSOP event 2, it was turbo-tournament so pretty basic decision-making. I've switched my adaptogens to Ashwagandha, Panax Ginseng and Cordyceps, feel good on them. I ordered some Aniracetam and Pramiracetam will most likely be experimenting with them in the following weeks but for now I just try to keep the basics straight. Sulbutiamine seemed interesting, very non-impulsive stimulative substance have to give it more experiments, I've run out of my current sample of 5 grams.

[Galaxyshock]

I've been experimenting with Pramiracetam and Aniracetam and see clear benefits from them. Aniracetam seems good for mood and problem solving, but has that passivating quality at least initially. Pramiracetam is definitely a focus boost and gives a sense of pure rationality but I'm noticing tolerance building up quickly? One surprising nootropic I've happened to discover is menthol pastilles. Chewing them during playing gives a refreshing feeling and clarity. Looks like the nootropic effect of menthol is indeed acknowledged.

I got another final-table finish and top 20 result in bigger tourneys. I also won a live tournament package. I've been running well and my game is solid. Some creativity would still be welcomed.. Next week I hopefully get motivation to give some time for theory and perhaps some heads-up Hold'em games. There is $5000 buy-in grand slam tournament with $500k guaranteed next sunday I wouldn't mind playing but only through qualifier... the mini version with $200k gtd I already have ticket to.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 10 March 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[bootdoc]

Interesting to see. I have been only trying piracetam and noopept. Dr Feel good MVI, fish oil, and lots of eggs.
Seems to make me calmer in the game. I haven't played for a while but got back to playing free poker in a league here (no real live games) and had for 3/3 had 2 final table and one 1 but the field is only 20-30 each.
The games are short. Does the menthol pastilles help for the longer run games?

[Galaxyshock]

Well it's mild effect of course but nice little augment. I find it good to have something "on the side" like music and chewing those pastilles or gum so my mind is mildly occupied when I wait for playable situations. Especially in long sessions. I also bought some Guarana tablets which is a good caffeine source as the caffeine is bonded to catechins that make it "time-release". No buzz or crash but sustained stimulation.

[Galaxyshock]

Been almost two months since last post, have had some highs and lows, mostly lows. Went a bit retard in Omaha-games and buying straigth in for Grand Slam. Also played my first live tournament which was nice experience altough didn't finish in the money. Overall I haven't played that much in volume but looking to make my breakthrough in Heads-up NLHE games soon and perhaps play some of the SCOOP tournaments at pokerstars. Not using any racetams or noopept at the moment. Ginseng and Bacopa have been my main cognitive-enhancers along with St. John's Wort as these also help with my anhedonia issues and don't produce brain-fog, crash or other annoying side effects. But I'm open to try new things..

Edited by Galaxyshock, 10 May 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Tom_]

One thing not mentioned remains glaringly obvious to me: Modafinil. It rarely induces anxiety - when the dosage is right and improves concentration and alertness like nothing else.

[bootdoc]

Galaxyshock- I wish you the best of luck. Is it the variance? Consider reading poker books as well. It may feel like a narcissistic injury at first, but every profession has continuing education in addition to actual practice- ok at least medicine and law. Consider 1 hr a week of reading some literature. I have noticed when watching WSOP that some of the pros have coaches. Good luck. May the Aces be with you!

[Tom_]

bootdoc has the right idea. (although I imagine modafinil should produce some help). You might want to isolate certain cognitive skills you will need and find a way to improve them by graded practice.

Mindfulness mediation each day could also help.

[DorianGrey]

Eggs for choline. I have seen some effect using Centrophenoxine, that's a cognitive enhancer that helps me a bit with memory (faster recall).

[Galaxyshock]

In my opinion a lot of poker literature is outdated ABC-shit that I already know and doesn't really apply to advanced games. Cardrunnes, twoplustwo etc. are some good informative and analytic sources for improving game. Still, the pros don't reveal their deeper thinking, it's something one must develope themself. That's what I'm looking to get into; creative next-level cash game and strategic, aggressive, calculated moves in tournament play and ability to see through opponent's patterns.

Modafinil doesn't seem necessary when we have Ginseng and Bacopa:

http://www.longecity...inst-modafinil/

Altough such a wakefulness promoting agent could be useful..

[Tom_]

On the other hand modafinil is a potent wakefulness promoting agent, improves performance based cognition, can be used in reward behavioral training and it does have a more firm evidence base.

[machete234]

Id also try to make sleep possible before tournaments with sedatives that dont affect you the next day

[Galaxyshock]

Id also try to make sleep possible before tournaments with sedatives that dont affect you the next day

That's a good tip. I should've taken some Phenibut or Passion flower / something with me to the live tournament. I had quite poor sleep there that probably affected my game. Well, it was more of a having fun -type of tournament, everyone had drinks etc. so no big deal.

Anyway, I won over $8k last night from the only tourney I played. Didn't even really concentrate on it but got dealt aces, queens, AK etc. a lot, so not hard to gather chips. Thanks for wishing luck bootdoc looks like it paid off for me hehe. Got to be smart this time and not blow these winnings to wrong games. But those SCOOP tourneys are something to consider.

[Galaxyshock]

bootdoc has the right idea. (although I imagine modafinil should produce some help). You might want to isolate certain cognitive skills you will need and find a way to improve them by graded practice.

Mindfulness mediation each day could also help.

I'll put modafinil in the to-try-list but I'm gonna stick with Ginseng and Bacopa for now as they have other benefits too, and caffeine works for wakefulness pretty well. Bacopa can promote meditative state and also Gotu Kola is used to deepen the practice (both of them are by the way also called "Brahmi"). It's very easy to empty the mind when consuming them. I think an absolute control over tilt could be reached.

[LetMusicRule]

how are things moving along? I too am a poker player and would be really interested in your progress to see how things have come along.

[Galaxyshock]

Ginseng&Bacopa combination works very well for my cognition. They seem to reverse my stress induced fog/cognitive issues and things just seem to get better and better. I find my decision-making sharp and calm, and I feel I'm getting a "professional touch" to my game. Bacopa is also good for memory. I think these two can help many players who feel they aren't functioning optimally, and even if they are, some further benefits can be noticed. Ginseng is quite energizing and can push one through long sessions even if feeling fatigued.

My problem is still productivity, I play low volume and just can't get myself to use time for analysing etc. But I can see it getting better step-by-step. I think I've had more or less adrenal exhaustion. Anhedonia and motivation issues are subsiding, St. John's Wort helps a ton with this.

At the moment I'm playing the SCOOP-M main event and couple of other tourneys.

[Galaxyshock]

No money-results from last night tournaments. Feel kinda shitty finishing a bit before money most of them, especially the Main Event, losing important all-in situations as a favourite. I actually feel more productive now that I'm a bit pissed off. I've been like that for several years. If things are "fine" I become passive and don't pursuit for more. That may be something that's holding me from getting to higher stakes. Also, letting results affect my mood is still a bit amateur mindset but it happens.. Anyway, I'm gonna take a few days break as I have some other things to do and it's probably not smart to play when steaming a little. Hope something comes out of this productivity kick.

My stack that works well and sustainably, for cognition, mood and energy&endurance:

These three I swear by having the biggest impact for me
Ginseng extract (16mg ginsenosides) 2-6x
Bacopa extract (40mg bacosides) 2-4x
St. John's Wort (Perika, hyperforin-standardized) 3x
(Hyperforin seems to have actually more noradrenaline-dopamine affinity than serotonin)

These keep energy and endurance sustainably well (and help with my adrenal issues) while further providing good mood:
Rhodiola extract (16mg rosavin, 4mg salidroside) ½-1x
Schisandra, fruit, 580mg 2-6x
Maca 2 tablespoons

Creatine 5g
Caffeine or Dendrobium-stimulant
Ashwagandha extract or Gotu Kola to balance the stimulation
Magnesium

I'm soon going to start experimenting again with fancier things. So far the best non-herbal nootropic for me was CDP-choline so that's something to order again. The mixed results with racetams make me a bit hesitant. I still have some aniracetam that I can't say at 750mg dose had any effect when I last time tried it. Well, can't hurt to give it a try at few grams or something. I also have some Noopept too for a new run. I wonder if Uridine would work for productivity or as adjunctive with the other things.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 27 May 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[chemicalambrosia]

Interesting regimen and thread, Galaxyshock. What brands are all of those herbs that you are taking? It seems that even among standardized herbs there can be a lot of variation between brands.

This thread kind of makes me hope there will an an investment/ stock trading stack discussion thread started some day.

[deh707]

Forum I found called Nootropic drugs to enhance gambling!?

http://www.beatingbo...read.php?t=3307

Apparently, the OP of that thread is now just taking Focus XT (Which I love), Piracetam, and Modafinil. These 3 I always keep in my stacks.

His old stack:

Originally Posted by SuperTrump
Following on from my original post on nootropic drugs in gambling, I decided to conduct a self-experiment and have been taking the following supplements daily for the past one month:

- Modafinil 200mg
- Selegeline 5mg
- Piracetam 2.4gm twice daily
- Hydergine 4.5mg
- Vinpocetine 5mg
- Centrophenoxine 20mg
- Phosphatidylserine 100mg
- Ginko Biloba 60mg twice daily
- Thiamine 400mg
- Choline Bitartrate 1300mg twice daily
- Taurine 500mg twice daily
- Co Enzyme Q-10 60mg twice daily
- Omega 3,6,9 twice daily
- Caffeine (2 Cups of coffee over course of the day)

The first few weeks, I felt a bit 'spacey' and 'jittery' and found it difficult to sleep at night. I also had no appetite and felt slightly nauseous. Thankfully, these side effects gradually improved over a couple of weeks.

Four weeks on and the effects of the nootropics have been outstanding! I have developed a photographic memory since I started using them and I am a lot more focused and hyper-alert. The mental clarity you experience is amazing and complex mental arithmetic becomes a snap. Its like your IQ is 20-40 points higher. I find it much easier to card count and my mental endurance is significantly higher. My motivation & sex drive is also a lot higher, which I attribute to the addition of selegeline, which increases dopamine levels. I am also much less impulsive, which for a professional gambler, is a positive affect.

I can now appreciate why professional poker or BJ players take such drugs. They definitely enhanced my play, increased my mental performance and helped reduce my playing errors. Its an expensive regime but I plan to continue it.

Edited by deh707, 28 May 2013 - 07:49 AM.