9 replies to this topic

[Adam90]

Yesterday I took a 8 gram dose of Choline Bitartrate in the evening, which resulted in me having very clear and lucid dreams the following night (I haven't had one in a very long time). Is this a common effect and are such doses safe?

[nowayout]

Why would people want lucid dreams? I'm just genuinely curious.

[Adam90]

Why would people want lucid dreams? I'm just genuinely curious.

It's fun, you can do all sorts of things (e.g. fly and it still feels 'real').

[Unstoppable]

8 grams is not a safe dose, I believe up to 3 grams of choline is safe

[nowayout]

Why would people want lucid dreams? I'm just genuinely curious.

It's fun, you can do all sorts of things (e.g. fly and it still feels 'real').

Okey dokey.

I lucid dream every night. It's all nightmares.

[Adam90]

8 grams is not a safe dose, I believe up to 3 grams of choline is safe

IIRC,Choline Bitartrate is only ~41% Choline ..so, 8 grams of Ch.Bit would be only 3.3 grams of Choline.

[caspar]

Why would people want lucid dreams? I'm just genuinely curious.

It's fun, you can do all sorts of things (e.g. fly and it still feels 'real').

Okey dokey.

I lucid dream every night. It's all nightmares.

Kind of totally unrelated, but I feel like I should help you out here. If you're aware of the fact that you are having a nightmare you should realize that since it is your imagination, you have the power to change the dream into something positive.

[Adam90]

Kind of totally unrelated, but I feel like I should help you out here. If you're aware of the fact that you are having a nightmare you should realize that since it is your imagination, you have the power to change the dream into something positive.

Captain Obvious, you signed up just to post that?

[Unstoppable]

8 grams is not a safe dose, I believe up to 3 grams of choline is safe

IIRC,Choline Bitartrate is only ~41% Choline ..so, 8 grams of Ch.Bit would be only 3.3 grams of Choline.

Which is still 10% over max safety dose concidering you get 0 from diet, which means you should spend less on supplements and more on proper food.

[jadamgo]

There's some pretty interesting science regarding acetylcholine and norepinephrine in the brain during various states of consciousness. The locus ceruleus (the "master control center" for norepinephrine in the brain) is active only when you're awake, and during deep non-REM sleep -- not during REM sleep. The nucleus basalis (control center for acetylcholine) is active only when you're awake, and during REM sleep -- not during deep sleep.

Furthermore, noradrenergic antidepressants are known to have strong anti-REM sleep effects. They reduce or sometimes even eliminate REM sleep altogether, which might play some role in their antidepressant effects. Occasionally, psychiatrists will prescribe noradrenergic or combined serotonergic/noradrenergic antidepressants to intentionally reduce dreaming, as in nightmare disorder or PTSD.

Cholinergic agents, on the other hand, frequently affect dreams. Varenicline (aka "Chantix"), a cholinergic nicotine cessation aid, is famous for drastically affecting dreamscapes. Also, many people take various combinations of acetylcholine precursors, like choline citrate and centrophenoxine, as lucid dream enhancers. Some people even combine choline sources with galantamine, which further boosts acetylcholine levels, or with piracetam or aniracetam.

Summary: (Acetyl)choline plays a huge role in dreaming, and some people intentionally take high doses to improve lucid dreaming abilities.