1565 replies to this topic

[RawProduce]

The IP address won't have much to do with the user's actual location if they're aware of how to bypass that. The same precautions should have been held in the first place with a compound that's went untested in humans, whether it can be linked to cancer or not. The same goes for any of the numerous research chemicals out there - in my opinion of course. It's often the false assumptions of others or rather the short foresight that leads them to believe, well, if this person didn't die or fall down barfing, then I probably won't either without thinking of what the long-term ramifications of consistent use may be.

Wikipedia blocks any proxies they figure out are proxies. I port scanned this IP, and it doesn't appear to be a proxy off hand.

Stop port scanning me, kthnx.

Alright, so you've seen nothing but positive effects from Sunifiram (as have I), but why are you removing well sourced statements from wikipedia?

Because if you can't demonstrate that a compound has a given effect, implying that it has said effect is speculation. Speculation belongs on forums and chat rooms, not in an encyclopedia.

[Climactic]

Because if you can't demonstrate that a compound has a given effect, implying that it has said effect is speculation. Speculation belongs on forums and chat rooms, not in an encyclopedia.

No one is implying anything. Speculation would be saying that sunifiram does indeed raise risk of excitotoxicity and cancer - such a claim was never made. Why are some people against presenting the sourced inconvenient facts? Why not let people read the facts as they are, and decide for themselves? Would you rather prefer that people remain wholly ignorant of the facts that NMDA agonists can lead to NMDAR overactivation, and that PKCa has associations with malignancy? Ask yourself whether ignorance is preferable to knowledge. That's what's going on here. Speculation suggests an opinion, but no opinion was ever presented. In any case, we know that it's now up to Wikipedia policies and administrators to decide.

RawProduce, I know you believe sunifiram is safe, but then why don't you megadose it with stimulants without the gabaergics? You don't do this for a good reason.

Edited by Climactic, 20 June 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[golden1]

How about keep the wikipedia article arguing on wikipedia. thanks.
hope you start to feel better though climactic.

[Southern_Lights]

How can you argue against harm reduction? I don't understand this lol. There have been 0 proper human studies, does that not mean that everything is speculation/anecdotal?

[xsiv1]

In general, I'm in agreement that there is altogether, not enough conclusive data to suggest that even a threshold, when crossed regarding PKCa, may be a sole causitive factor in the development of cancer simply because of the intervening variables involved. It plays a role in development of certain cancers but we must consider : one's own genetics, to their lifestyle (diets and exercise, etc) to the very environment they're raised in, i. e., pollution, food production, water supply, viruses and dozens of others). I mean, yes, we can say with some certainty that smoking will cause death if consistently used but we can't answer for the variances amongst those that die or when or of what necessarily. For most who do die from smoking, we know that's it's usually lung cancer, stroke or heart disease but variances do exist.
In the bodybuilding/strength world, steroids have been used and abused for over 60 years, and Lyle Alzado's death of brain cancer was not likely wholly attributed to his use of steroids although the media and he did have a 'cause' that was promulgated albeit for different reasons. With all this in mind, caveat emptor given the novelty of sunifiram.

Can we get back to people's experiences regarding it's use now (at least for a bit?) since we can all likely agree that a vast number of people will still try it, continue to use it, or even use obscene amounts of it- despite it's novelty and some of the concerns that have been raised. Both positive and negative reports should be provided since this qualitative data is about all we have at this point.

Edited by xsiv1, 20 June 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[Climactic]

In general, I'm in agreement that there is altogether, not enough conclusive data to suggest that even a threshold, when crossed regarding PKCa, may be a sole causitive factor in the development of cancer simply because of the intervening variables involved.

I must state that PKCa antisense therapy (to reduce PKCa) has successfully been used in studies to reverse malignancy. This is how we know that PKCa was of supreme significance. This was indicated in the sources that now stand removed. Ignorance begets ignorance.

Sunifiram is old now, considering unifiram is out.

Edited by Climactic, 20 June 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[ThePhoeron]

Sunifiram is old now, considering unifiram is out.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that I missed the unifiram release by less than a week with my big order, and stocked up so much on sunifiram. Oh well. Hopefully nefiracetam will be back in stock soon, and the coluracetam arrives---then I can get all three.

[Kyle McGill]

I'm sorry for being incredibly slow in regards to the current topic, but hypothetically speaking, if I had over activated certain receptors as a result of using sunifiram, and experiencing said headaches as a result, what would be the beat course of action to remedy the situation? Is staying off of sunifiram for a long while enough for things to balance out, or am I to take immediate reaction. Sorry but the earlier poster has sparked a certain paranoia in me.

[Introspecta]

I have recently re-tried Sunifiram with results being not as good as the first trial. My first trial can be reviewed towards the beginning of this thread. I'm not sure if my brain isn't back to normal yet after being off Deprenyl for about 3-4 weeks relatively low dosing. I'm just not getting the same intense focus, mood boosting, color enhancing effects that I got the first time when combining with caffiene. Either my brain is in a different state to the first trial, or perhaps the batch is different and possibly impure or it is just one of those drugs that is great the first week you use it then you can never regain the same experience.

The effects i'm getting this time around seem to have a little more of a nervous feel to it as opposed to the first time where I felt awake all day and alert but yet relaxed. Maybe all the talk in this thread has made me a bit paranoid about having excessive glutamate side effects. I have been dosing roughly 20mgs 3times a day. Today is day 2. My first trial I started low in dosage roughly 5-10mgs with little effect until bumping it up into the 20-30mg range. I was mixing with Jack3ed my first trial also which may of been a key factor in some of the intense effects I had.

Has anybody else noticed any difference when trialing 2 separate times?

I have also been noticing a slight headache which I did not receive the first time which may be psychosomatic due to this thread or unrelated. Nootropics in general all tend to give me some sort of slight headache in most cases especially piracetam. It is not enough to be bothersome but it is interesting that I do not remember getting this the first time around...

Climatic although you responded to me like a dick you have made me rethink some of my own use with nootropics and made me wonder is it worth it. Do I really no what the F i'm taking.

I stupidly ordered Unifiram before it sold out because I just want to see what its like but now am realizing that there are no human trials or reports so far so it is a little scary. haha. So naive we humans are. All to be smarter, sharper, have more energy etc. I hope some day I can perfect my diet and exercise regimen, get off caffiene and get to the point where I only want and need to supplement with natural herbs and vitamins. No chemicals. Maybe a little piracetam from time to time but thats it. Piracetam has never failed me..Sorry to babble on. Clearly the Sunifiram makes me babble,lol

Edited by joelski28, 20 June 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Climactic]

I'm sorry for being incredibly slow in regards to the current topic, but hypothetically speaking, if I had over activated certain receptors as a result of using sunifiram, and experiencing said headaches as a result, what would be the beat course of action to remedy the situation? Is staying off of sunifiram for a long while enough for things to balance out, or am I to take immediate reaction. Sorry but the earlier poster has sparked a certain paranoia in me.

You wouldn't just have to stay off sunifiram - you'd have to stay off all stimulants that are remotely glutamatergic. This includes caffeine and modafinil. I consume some caffeine anyway despite the worsening of symptoms because it's useful when working the day job Mon-Fri. You'd also have to stay off nootropic racetams. Also, forget about alcohol because it's completely intolerable.

Next, you'd need excitotoxicity protectors even though excitotoxicity was never proven. These include various vitamins, amino acids, gabaergics, and some adaptogenic herbs. I'm skipping the details.

Next, you'd need long-acting prescription drugs such as NMDA antagonists, anticonvulsants, and gabaergics - in that order. It is unknown to me which of these would help treat the condition best, at what dose, with fewest side effects, and absence of dependency. If even these don't work or cause unacceptable side effects, then you'd probably need to investigate expensive research chemicals that are highly selective and preferably allosteric in their actions.

You'd also need something to help you sleep.

Nobody really knows yet. My personal recommendation is to limit sunifiram to 1mg twice daily for 3 days max, not take it with other nootropics or stimulants, and not take it late in the day.

Edited by Climactic, 20 June 2013 - 11:43 PM.

[golden1]

Time has a way of balancing things out as well.

[RawProduce]

How can you argue against harm reduction? I don't understand this lol. There have been 0 proper human studies, does that not mean that everything is speculation/anecdotal?

That's kinda my point - it is all speculation for that exact reason. Talking of harm reduction when the object in question is a compound with literally no human studies is bordering on insane. The only harm reduction possible in such a scenario is to not touch it - hence the statement that there have been no human studies being sufficient information on the wikipedia page for anyone with half a brain.

If any of you taking this have the impression that you are anything more than a guinea pig, you have bigger issues than anything which Sunifiram might do to you. If you can accept that fact then you will have more than likely already educated yourself on strategies to minimise the risk of excitotoxicity and the like and will not be dosing 20mg/day like a moron. Whoever was doing 5mg/every other day has the right idea. Whoever is taking anti-oxidants and GABA releasing substances just might have a clue.

And, ofcourse, now we're going to go through a period of Tulip Mania where everyone and their dog is going to report persistent headaches from Sunifiram all of a sudden. Great.

Honestly, people, only Vishnu simultaneously facepalming with all of his hands would do my reaction to all of this justice.

Edited by RawProduce, 21 June 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[Suirsuss]

By the way---just noticed New Star has a limited quantity of Unifiram available, for those interested in checking out other ampakines.

time to blow up a uni thread this ones gone stale

[ThePhoeron]

By the way---just noticed New Star has a limited quantity of Unifiram available, for those interested in checking out other ampakines.

time to blow up a uni thread this ones gone stale

And what do you know? Thank you, Artificiality:
http://www.longecity...nifiram-thread/

[Introspecta]

I honestly can't see it being the slightest bit worth taking this substance at 1mg. Also taking 5mgs every other day would do little to nothing for me. It isn't until around my second dose that the effects begin to show their face. They then seem to build througout the first day into the second then plateau aroud the 3rd. I have to add though that I am on Baclofen which is Gabaergic.

Edited by joelski28, 21 June 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[Southern_Lights]

How can you argue against harm reduction? I don't understand this lol. There have been 0 proper human studies, does that not mean that everything is speculation/anecdotal?

That's kinda my point - it is all speculation for that exact reason. Talking of harm reduction when the object in question is a compound with literally no human studies is bordering on insane. The only harm reduction possible in such a scenario is to not touch it - hence the statement that there have been no human studies being sufficient information on the wikipedia page for anyone with half a brain.

If any of you taking this have the impression that you are anything more than a guinea pig, you have bigger issues than anything which Sunifiram might do to you. If you can accept that fact then you will have more than likely already educated yourself on strategies to minimise the risk of excitotoxicity and the like and will not be dosing 20mg/day like a moron. Whoever was doing 5mg/every other day has the right idea. Whoever is taking anti-oxidants and GABA releasing substances just might have a clue.

And, ofcourse, now we're going to go through a period of Tulip Mania where everyone and their dog is going to report persistent headaches from Sunifiram all of a sudden. Great.

Honestly, people, only Vishnu simultaneously facepalming with all of his hands would do my reaction to all of this justice.

Alright man, if your really going to call promoting harm reduction "bordering on insane" than I don't really think I need to argue my point any further because you clearly don't get it.

Seriously, what is your interest in Sunifiram? Why is it so important to keep a positive light? You must have vested interests or something it doesn't make sense why your hellbent on it's success.

I don't know if you were implying that I personally took "20mg/day like a moron" by I assure you that is not the case. I was dosing between 1-5 mgs every other day, sometimes 3 days in between. I was consuming plenty of AO's and was also most likely at the same time I was taking GABA drugs, though this much I am not sure.

I realize that I was acting as nothing more than a guinea pig, but on paper, with the rat studies, it seemed like a pomising compound. But is it really? Because in my mind it didn't pan out that way and it is foolish for more people to trial. I'm not against free will though as people are free to live their lives as they please. However I do not believe against persuading people into potentially dangerous situations.

My point is this: What benifit is there from sunifiram? Seriously? Can you show me any effects which cannot be achieved through other, safer means? Stimulation: Caffine etc. even adderall is probably a safer alternative given its history and research. Saturated colors: Smoke some weed. Seriously though, why push sunifram so hard?

What we do have is at least a handful of people who have side-effects (most likely) caused by Sunifiram, and could possibly be very long lasting. This is certainly not the case with other nootropics, at least as far as I know (save maybe nefiracetam).

Harm reduction, in my mind at least, is letting people know that these things COULD VERY WELL HAPPEN, not deny them and any reasearch which taints your beloved sunifiram.

IS THIS AMPAKINE WORTH IT? I certainly do not believe so.

[Climactic]

The only harm reduction possible in such a scenario is to not touch it - hence the statement that there have been no human studies being sufficient information on the wikipedia page for anyone with half a brain.
..
Whoever is taking anti-oxidants and GABA releasing substances just might have a clue.

The problem is that after 30 pages of being told of the "wonders of sunifiram", people's natural safety mechanisms will be entirely turned off. After all, you yourself took it.

Taking strong gabaergics with sunifiram negates the whole point of taking sunifiram. You'll just be canceling the memory, learning, and LTP effect. Why bother at all then? Just to tell the world you did it? Moreover, the user risks developing an addiction to the gabaergic.

Innocent people could pay the price because of your disagreement.

Edited by Climactic, 21 June 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[golden1]

lol

[RawProduce]

How can you argue against harm reduction? I don't understand this lol. There have been 0 proper human studies, does that not mean that everything is speculation/anecdotal?

That's kinda my point - it is all speculation for that exact reason. Talking of harm reduction when the object in question is a compound with literally no human studies is bordering on insane. The only harm reduction possible in such a scenario is to not touch it - hence the statement that there have been no human studies being sufficient information on the wikipedia page for anyone with half a brain.

If any of you taking this have the impression that you are anything more than a guinea pig, you have bigger issues than anything which Sunifiram might do to you. If you can accept that fact then you will have more than likely already educated yourself on strategies to minimise the risk of excitotoxicity and the like and will not be dosing 20mg/day like a moron. Whoever was doing 5mg/every other day has the right idea. Whoever is taking anti-oxidants and GABA releasing substances just might have a clue.

And, ofcourse, now we're going to go through a period of Tulip Mania where everyone and their dog is going to report persistent headaches from Sunifiram all of a sudden. Great.

Honestly, people, only Vishnu simultaneously facepalming with all of his hands would do my reaction to all of this justice.

Alright man, if your really going to call promoting harm reduction "bordering on insane" than I don't really think I need to argue my point any further because you clearly don't get it.

Seriously, what is your interest in Sunifiram? Why is it so important to keep a positive light? You must have vested interests or something it doesn't make sense why your hellbent on it's success.

I don't know if you were implying that I personally took "20mg/day like a moron" by I assure you that is not the case. I was dosing between 1-5 mgs every other day, sometimes 3 days in between. I was consuming plenty of AO's and was also most likely at the same time I was taking GABA drugs, though this much I am not sure.

I realize that I was acting as nothing more than a guinea pig, but on paper, with the rat studies, it seemed like a pomising compound. But is it really? Because in my mind it didn't pan out that way and it is foolish for more people to trial. I'm not against free will though as people are free to live their lives as they please. However I do not believe against persuading people into potentially dangerous situations.

My point is this: What benifit is there from sunifiram? Seriously? Can you show me any effects which cannot be achieved through other, safer means? Stimulation: Caffine etc. even adderall is probably a safer alternative given its history and research. Saturated colors: Smoke some weed. Seriously though, why push sunifram so hard?

What we do have is at least a handful of people who have side-effects (most likely) caused by Sunifiram, and could possibly be very long lasting. This is certainly not the case with other nootropics, at least as far as I know (save maybe nefiracetam).

Harm reduction, in my mind at least, is letting people know that these things COULD VERY WELL HAPPEN, not deny them and any reasearch which taints your beloved sunifiram.

IS THIS AMPAKINE WORTH IT? I certainly do not believe so.

Most of that wasn't directed at you in particular, only the first paragraph was. The rest was a general rant. You don't need to justify anything - it's your body and your right to do with it as you wish.

The only harm reduction possible in such a scenario is to not touch it - hence the statement that there have been no human studies being sufficient information on the wikipedia page for anyone with half a brain.
..
Whoever is taking anti-oxidants and GABA releasing substances just might have a clue.

The problem is that after 30 pages of being told of the "wonders of sunifiram", people's natural safety mechanisms will be entirely turned off. After all, you yourself took it.

Taking strong gabaergics with sunifiram negates the whole point of taking sunifiram. You'll just be canceling the memory, learning, and LTP effect. Why bother at all then? Just to tell the world you did it? Moreover, the user risks developing an addiction to the gabaergic.

Innocent people could pay the price because of your disagreement.

No, no, no. If people's safety mechanisms are turned off because Someone On The Internet ™ is raving about an untested compound then they seriously need to reconsider their approach to life. Note that I said GABA releasing substances, not agonists. L-Theanine, for example, is not addictive.

People are not innocent if they choose to take compounds with no human studies - they have made a decision to alter their bodies and need to take responsibility for their own actions. By all means, post your experiences here and speculate all you want. My only contention is that said speculation has a place and an encyclopedia is not it.

I've taken much bigger risks than trying Sunifiram but I have no illusions about the potential consequences of my actions and I certainly don't spread panic at the disco when I burn myself.

[Q did it!]

All I have to say after reading the last few pages here is when testing compounds such as Sunifiram proceed with caution.

[Rudy]

Ok so this happened around the fist week of june and to my disgrace haven’t recovered


Sunifiram was at the most 30-40 mg sunifiram plus 40mg noopept only that day.. prevoius days zembrin and ciltep stack , but i never did combined them all the same day...


things that seemd to helpe were theanine,zinc,GABA,Benedryl im not sure and magnesuim not sure either


The pressure headache is about two inches right above the ear canal the (Temples). pain is about 4 or 5 on a 0 thru 10 scale, they not gotten any better cus when i eat something is like i'm now sensitive (coffee, i think now even milk n other foods idk whats causing this) excess glutamate? …all the things i just mentioned, it all started with an extra dose of sunifiram that day only 40mg along with noopept ...

And with what do I really stop excitoxicicity ( I have vitamin c)and some other things that might help but need to know dosages and when to take them

I cannot get me some memantine and the doctor only recommended Mezicline for tinnitus
Im so nervous right now
Any body that is going thru this or have had the experience? I need to talk to someone

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I cannot get me some memantine and the doctor only recommended Mezicline for tinnitus

I can not say that several online pharmacies don't stock memantine, and that some are more reputable than others.

[golden1]

Benzos would be a good short term way to stop excitoxicity, if it is somehow still occurring after the sunifiram has left your body. Not sure how you would convince a doctor you need to be prescribed them in this case though..

Diazepam neuroprotection in excitotoxic and oxidative stress involves a mitochondrial mechanism additional to the GABAAR and hypothermic effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19428822



It seems more likely that the damage has been done and you'd want to keep as healthy as possibly to encourage the brain to repair. CDP-choline, EPA+DHA concentrated fishoil, adequate amounts of vitamins+minerals, exercise, and such would be my course of action if I were in that situation.

Edited by golden1, 21 June 2013 - 06:47 AM.

[waitwhatthe]

I am disappointed in New Star Nootropics.

It has been days now since I bought another 10g Sunifiram and the Express Mail tracking is still not working.

The last order I sent to them, they replied with a fake tracking number first that never worked and then took days to make a new one.

They refuse to answer any commnication and have never replied once to my emails.

I'm going to have to source Sunifiram elsewhere.

Worse, BYOB on eBay has not yet shipped my 100g Pramiracetam in 3 working days despite my constant messaging.

The level of irrresponsibility is enormous among these sellers.

I smell delisting soon for a couple of them.

Sellers that screw me over get permabanned from the Racetam Prices list.

Has anyone mangaged to receive an email reply or phone New Star Nootropics?

Their phone number area code is HAWAII and does not match their physical address.

I can't get any reply from them.

Going through the thread and I had to add to this. New Star gave me a tracking number that showed my sunifiram being delivered to somewhere in KY. I live in L.A. so they're definitely sketch. I got it in a few days but it still makes me question their business ethics.

[Introspecta]

Mistakes do happen. I wouldn't chalk that up as being sketchy. It was probably just the wrong tracking number.

[Southern_Lights]

I cannot get me some memantine and the doctor only recommended Mezicline for tinnitus
Im so nervous right now
Any body that is going thru this or have had the experience? I need to talk to someone

I can relate to that nervous feeling but I would try very hard to keep calm and not freak out as that could make things (seem) worse.

Secondly, I have no idea as to how to solve this. What I personally am going to do is stay abstinent of just about everything (save fish oil, and green tea). Our bodies are pretty good at getting back to homeostasis, that is my plan of action, but my symptoms are just tinnitus without the pain your describing. So I can very easily see how your more desperate than I.
I wish I never trialed sunifiram, ugh....

[xsiv1]

L-theanine upto 2grams per day, a chelated Magnesium supplement like Glycinate, Taurinate or L-threonate, sporadic use of Gabaergics/mimetics (Phenibut, balcofen, a benzo, gabapentin/lyrica), Taurine upto 2 grams per day, NAC with equal amounts of Vitamin C- can all help combat glutamate excitotoxicity. There were more listed in this thread. For more gaba acting compounds I refer you to the very thread that scienceguy warned you about not using due to downregulation of Gaba receptors (hence the need for sporadic use): http://www.longecity...ly-effectively/

[Greek86]

I've stopped taking Sunifiram not only for the risks associated with taking an untested drug but also b/c the effects I noticed were not what I was looking for. I took it 10 of 14 days and during the last 5 i experimented with other racetams and cognitive enhancers. To summarize my notes, what I noticed was a short-lasting wakefulness promoting agent, that caused a slight head pressure, and did not have the edgy feeling conventional stimulants have.

Good Luck to you all

Edited by Greek86, 21 June 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[zongler007]

After 11 day of taking sunifiram today i ware off that drug, becouse its stop work like in first week (i must get again this same effect) and i feel very tired and slow-witted, maybe i took to big doses 40-60 mg per day? but smaller its not working on me, afeter 5mg-10mg i realy dont feel nothig.

BTW sorry for my english guys, but im from Poland

[xsiv1]

After 11 day of taking sunifiram today i ware off that drug, becouse its stop work like in first week (i must get again this same effect) and i feel very tired and slow-witted, maybe i took to big doses 40-60 mg per day? but smaller its not working on me, afeter 5mg-10mg i realy dont feel nothig.

BTW sorry for my english guys, but im from Poland

No worries. I can't believe I ordered 4 grams of this stuff lol...I'm hesitant to try it but will use it as an occasional kind of nootropic. I should also reiterate that using Gaba agonists/mimetics do carry the risk of dependence (as in the case of Phenibut, Baclofen, Benzos and Gabapentin/Lyrica to a lesser extent) so shouldn't be used for long and sporadically if at all possible, especially when considering phenibut and for those prone to addiction, benzos. Baclofen has nearly no recreational potential and is easier to come off. NMDA antagonists aside from Magnesium may also be the way to go if you can tolerate them as they're job is to block glutamate where the gabaergics help restore a balance between Glutamate and Gaba in scenarios where excitotoxicity may be of concern.