32 replies to this topic

[dopeonarope]

I have made this to enlighten the dope fiends across other forums. I am still a newb to neurochemical interaction so I ask you to please point out where I have gone wrong and share some of you geniusness.


Cannabis acts mainly on one cannabinoid receptor in the brains neural cells. Receptors are basicly the input in a brain cell for the different chemicals in your brain and those chemicals (neurotransmitters) tell the neuron what to do. So by introducing THC to a neuron, it soon alters natural neurotransmitter communication. Therefor, thoughts of different natures.

By constantly pushing Cannabinoid receptors into overdrive by putting THC through them, they wear out and become less excited (Neuronal Excitability). By disabling them when not high, can help them to become more sensitive and therfor eliminates some of the tolerance to THC or other Cannabinoids. This processes is refered to as Antagonism. Just like a bad guy antagonist in a story, he doesn't let the receptor work. The opposite is called Agonism and helps the receptor to flourish.

Cannabinoid receptors also control a lot of other chemical neurotransmitter interactions within the brain (Neuromodulation) and this produces the same effect as above (overdrives them into not working properly. This is a classic case of a stupified dope fiend, whose normal neurotransmission has been modulated, slowed and shot by consuming too much THC too soon via the cannabinoid receptors.
These neurotransmitters, that are affected by Marijuana use, are responsible for concentration, learning, memory retention and nerve growth factor among many others.
So by now you can start to see how Marijuana can affect the brain negatively or positevly if you like your thought processes to diminished and subdued. I will now describe how you can use this knowledge for supplementation that can diminish these scientificly known negative effects of Marijuana.

Tolerance

Cannabinoid Receptor Antagonists are still not yet on the public market but are being trialed for obesity as CB1 receptors use the naturally produced cannabinoid Anandamide for hunger. Natural antagonists are still available.

Other alternatives look at NMDA receptor antagonism as an effective method to reduce the rate of tolerance. NMDA receptors greatly improve the brain to form memories (long term memory similar to learning when young).

Memantine

Memantine has been widely used as a tolerence reducer for benzodiapine abuse aswell as marijuana. It is a NMDA receptor antagonist and can reduce marijuana impct on overloading NMDA receptors. Similar to Memantine is Amantadine.

Huperzine A

Huperzine is also an NMDA antagonist and increases Acetylcholine which is an important neurostransmitter responisble for concentration and learning. It also increases REM sleep which can help sleep issues caused by Marijuana. Also prevents neurotoxic effects of glutatamate.

Magnesium & Zinc

Magnesium & Zinc is also a NMDA atagonist. Magnesium L Theronate can especially assist with memory loss. Magnesium also prevents glutamate overactivity in a NDMA voltage dependant manner.

American Ginseng

Proven to increase metabolism of THC to its inactive version 11-nor-9-carboxy. This means american ginseng is a working detox. Prevents CB1 activation after intoxication, reducing ones tolerance. American Ginseng also contains CB1 Inverse agonist falcarinol (Studies show it reverses CB1s effects at certain sites). Some slight hormonal type improvements have also been noted. American Ginseng also increases dopamine production in certain areas of the brain improving memory and tolerance. American Ginseng also works as a choline uptake enhancer exactly as racetams (nootropics) do.

Carrot Extract or Capsules

Carrots contain falcarinol which is a CB1 antagonist therby increasing the receptors sensitivity by it not being activated.

Fish Oil

Helps to rebuild and maintain Cannabinoid receptors.

Japanese Raisen Tree (Hovenia Dulcis)

Has shown to be an active detox for Marijuana and especially alchol.

Memory Impairment

Marijuana affects long-term and short-term memory potentiation and synaptic plasticity which refers to the connectivity between neurons and affects how often they fire over time. Increasing or decreasing the neurotransmitters and there actions can have a positive effect and many are used worldwide to increase the processes in working memory that Marijuana specificly deteriorates. The highest concentration of cannabinoid receptors in the brain exists in the hippocampus, which soley responsible for memory production.

Alpha GPC

Alpha GPC increase a very important neurotransmitter called Acetylcholine which is predomintly used for attention, arousal, learning, memory and muscle contraction. Compounds in cannabis inhibit the release of Acetylcholine.

cAMP

cAMP pertains to signal transduction and memory. Low levels have been related to mariuana psychosis. A reduction of cAMP levels in glutaminergic neurons, lowers the activity of the NMDA function in the hippocampus. It is found in lowered concentrations in both schizophrenic and psychotic bipolar disorder patients. This protein enhances Long Term Potentiation Memory.
cAMP can be obtain from Forskolin. Forskolin is made from Coleus which is also a slight hallucinogenic available at most garden stores.
Forskolin should be taken with Artichoke Extract to enhance PDE 4 Long Term Memory Formation.

L-Glutamine

Glutamate receptors are responsible for neuronal communication, memory formation and learning. Excessive Glutamate receptor depreciation and densetization has been scientificly observed after Cannabis use. L-Glutamate can increase Glutamic Acid and help curve its inactivity after Marijuana use.

Vassopressin

Marijuana is said to inhibit the release of vasopressin, and thus perhaps interfere with memory-imprinting. Similar to Vassopressin is Hydergine, Centrophenoxine, Selegiline and Desmopressin.

ALCAR

Acetyl-L-carnitine has the ability to cross the blood–brain barrier and enter the brain, where it acts as a powerful antioxidant and helps in prevention of the brain cells' deterioration. Also can relieve symptoms of brain fog.

Ginkgo Biloba

Used worlwide for Memory & Attention.

Dihydromyricetin Extract

A natural proven intoxication blocker. Studies show this type of chemical diminishes nearly all memory impairments caused by THC. Contains a chemical called ampelopsin that influences GABA(a) receptors in an inhibitory fashion. This compound not only reverses memory effects caused by GABA, it also prevents long term anxiety caused by THC. This compound can be used to reverse even non-drug induced anxiety.

L-Glutathione
This herb increases BDNF(Brain derived Neutrophic factor), NGF(Nerve Growth Factor), and activates the CREB cycle in neuronal learning. This herbal compound has been shown to increase the major anti-oxidant glutathione in the brain (to a LARGE extent) and improve memory. This herb works to counter act the decrease in Aldehyde dehydrogenase(deficiencies cause hangovers) caused by THC. Glutathione deficiencies have been shown to lower short term memory and help cause schizophrenia. This compound has been shown to protect dopamine neurons from damage and increase their activation. Glutathione precursors have also been shown to help chronic marijuana users quit if they wanted to. This herb has also been found to thwart brain damage and inflammation caused from smoke, lipoxygenase, and even removes aluminum from brain tissue.

Concentration

Aniracetam

Is a Nootropic that can provide relief for people who have difficulty concentrating. It reduces glutamate receptor desensitization and blocks NMDA exitotoxicity. Which makes it a good supplement to consider for any Marijuana user. Aniracetam and other racetams upregulate the AMPA receptor which marijuana removes from the cell surface.

Oxiracetam

Is also a Nootropic that is a NMDA agonist so will not alleviate the negative impact of marijuana on the NMDA receptor but can provide noticable concentrative effects in other circumstances. Oxiracetam and other racetams upregulate the AMPA receptor which marijuana removes from the cell surface.

Sleep & Depression

GABA

GABA is a neurotransmitter important for regulating & suppressing thoughts. It promotes better sleep and relaxation. Endocannibinoids are known to suppress GABA release in certain cells. GABA, Phenibut, Picamilon and Valerian Root Extract are notable forms of GABA supplementation.

5-htp

Is a Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor that improves mood and sleep. Cannabis can antagonize serotonin receptors. Also it can help to reduce some anxiety felt from THC.

B Vitams

They help convert tryptophan into niacin and serotonin, making 5htp and niacen work more efficiently. They also help increase oxygen in the blood among an array of other effects. B12 can also cause de-realisatin in high doeses.

Melatonin

Is a hormone that is released when your eyes stop seeing light. It is released by the pineal gland and helps to maintain healthy sleeping patterns.

Herbal Alternatives

- Wild Dagga
- Blue Lotus
- Kanna
- Damiana
- Wormwood
- Skullcap
- Hops
- Catnip
- Calamus Root
- Galangal Root
- Betel Nut
- Marihuanilla
- Masterbation
- Coleus
- Zornia Latifolia
- Calea Zacatechichi

It is wise to do additional research before stacking these supplements as they may reverse the effects of each other either chemically or synaptically

http://www.buzzle.co...-functions.html
http://www.longecity...h-a-supplement/
http://chonps.org/20...with-marijuana/
http://www.longecity...e-does-it-work/
http://www.longecity...drug-tolerance/
http://www.biopsychi...om/canaforg.htm
https://en.wikipedia...ptor_antagonist
http://www.bluelight...etam-discussion
http://www.pnas.org/.../10936.full.pdf
https://en.wikipedia...f_schizophrenia

[formergenius]

Or just smoke normal weed, instead of ridiculously high THC strains. Or supplement with CBD. Here's why.

[sthira]

Or just use it in very tiny amounts. It's dose dependent.

[hippocampus]

n-acetylcysteine raises glutathione and is good for memory (i.e. protective against brain damage).

[Spiral21x]

This is awesome, thank you.

[airplanepeanuts]

L-Glutathione and "Masterbation" are no herbs

[Murraythemailman]

Good subject. This is actually the main reason I began looking into nootropics. Thank you.

[kevinseven11]

I have experience using all of these supplements.
Using any of these supplements alone are nearly ineffective.
Most are extremely modest.

CILTEP doesn't help. It honestly made it worse for me, though some say without mj it helps.

[Raisinthehouse]

Smoke strains with ratios where CBD>THC. Studies have shown it more or less prevents short term memory loss as well as spatial decline.

[Murraythemailman]

Raisin. Excuse me but I thought I was a connoisseur of cannibus but what is cbd? Never mind I just looked it up.

Edited by Murraythemailman, 20 September 2013 - 01:47 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Most people dont smoke CBD high strains because you dont really get high from it. Aside from that I still do agree people should.

[Raisinthehouse]

Murray marijuana has two major compounds. The well known THC and the much lesser known CBD. THC is the psychoactive component which gives you the signature high, it also has some therapeutic benefits. CBD is anti psychoactive and helps to reduce the impact THC has on cognitive function.

Smoking strains which have a higher percentage of CBD allow you to get a very subtle high, without the typical cognitive deficits. I'd recommend a strain called Harlequin, in general it has a much higher CBD to THC ratio and allows you to reap the many therapeutic benefits of CBD, without suffering from short term memory loss, which can interfere with studying and work.

[mission780]

Murray marijuana has two major compounds. The well known THC and the much lesser known CBD. THC is the psychoactive component which gives you the signature high, it also has some therapeutic benefits. CBD is anti psychoactive and helps to reduce the impact THC has on cognitive function.

Smoking strains which have a higher percentage of CBD allow you to get a very subtle high, without the typical cognitive deficits. I'd recommend a strain called Harlequin, in general it has a much higher CBD to THC ratio and allows you to reap the many therapeutic benefits of CBD, without suffering from short term memory loss, which can interfere with studying and work.

Harlequin is comprised of 25% Indica and 75% Sativa which looks like a good compromise!

Anyway I would still choose 100% sativa for the best cognitive enhancement even at the cost of temporary memory impairment.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

The answer is COX-2 inhibitors. We had this discussion a while ago, I believe.

Edited by 3AlarmLampscooter, 13 December 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Sciencyst]

So ibuprofen??

[MangekyōPeter]

Or diclofenac?

[Ark]

Painkillers May Curb Memory Loss From Medical Marijuana




21 November 2013 2:30 pm27 Comments



Bogdan/Creative Commons
A plant to remember. Painkillers may alleviate the memory impairment sometimes caused by marijuana.



Medical marijuana can alleviate pain and nausea, but it can also cause decreased attention span and memory loss. A new study in mice finds that taking an over-the-counter pain medication like ibuprofen may help curb these side effects.
"This is what we call a seminal paper," says Giovanni Marsicano, a neuroscientist at the University of Bordeaux in France who was not involved in the work. If the results hold true in humans, they "could broaden the medical use of marijuana," he says. "Many people in clinical trials are dropping out from treatments, because they say, ‘I cannot work anymore. I am stoned all the time.’ ”
People have used marijuana for hundreds of years to treat conditions such as chronic pain, multiple sclerosis, and epilepsy. Studies in mice have shown that it can reduce some of the neural damage seen in Alzheimer's disease. The main psychoactive ingredient, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), is approved by the Food and Drug Administration to treat anorexia in AIDS patients and the nausea triggered by chemotherapy. Although recreational drug users usually smoke marijuana, patients prescribed THC take it as capsules. Many people find the side effects hard to bear, however.
The exact cause of these side effects is unclear. In the brain, THC binds to receptors called CB1 and CB2, which are involved in neural development as well as pain perception and appetite. The receptors are normally activated by similar compounds, called endocannabinoids, that are produced by the human body. When one of these compounds binds to CB1, it suppresses the activity of an enzyme called cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2). The enzyme has many functions. For instance, painkillers such as ibuprofen and aspirin work by blocking COX-2. Researchers have hypothesized that the suppression of COX-2 could be the cause of THC's side effects, such as memory problems.
But that’s not what researchers found in the new study. A team led by Chu Chen, a neuroscientist at Louisiana State University in New Orleans, discovered that giving THC to mice increased the activity of COX-2. Blocking this activation alleviated the memory and learning problems triggered by THC. For instance, mice that received a dose of THC daily for a week had problems remembering the location of a hidden platform in a water tank. If COX-2 was blocked, however, mice given THC found the platform just as fast as mice that were not treated with THC did. This result suggests "that the unwanted side effects of cannabis could be eliminated or reduced … by administering a COX-2 inhibitor," the authors write today in Cell.
Raul Gonzalez, a psychologist at Florida International University in Miami, praises the "elegant set of experiments." But he warns that it is not clear whether inhibiting COX-2 blocks the beneficial effects of marijuana. In the study, Chen and colleagues showed that some positive impacts of THC, such as those observed in mouse models of Alzheimer’s disease, are still seen if the mice also receive a COX-2 inhibitor. But such an inhibitor may still interfere with the positive effects of THC on other disorders such as AIDS, Gonzalez writes in an e-mail. "It is much too early to tell, but the current study will undoubtedly spur some exciting new research."
One conclusion of the paper is that THC and endocannabinoids can cause opposite effects when they bind to CB1, Marsicano says. That suggests that it may be too simple to think of a receptor like CB1 as a mere switch that always does the same thing if it is activated, he says. For instance, CB1 may come in slightly different forms, and THC may be particularly good at binding to only one of these forms.
The authors argue that a painkiller like aspirin may also prevent some of the downsides of cannabis abuse. But Gonzalez cautions that smoked cannabis contains many more active compounds than THC does, and they may also be involved in harming the memory and other side effects.
As for people who use marijuana recreationally, taking ibuprofen as well might kill the buzz they’re looking for, Marsicano says. For instance, he says, impairments in working memory may make people prone to jump from one topic to the next during conversation, and they may have fun doing that. "So what we call side effects may attract people to marijuana in the first place."

[MangekyōPeter]

Just tried it out with ibuprofen 400mg and it's 40 minutes since I ingested it and about 2 hours since I last smoked.

Definitely feeling more awake now and more baseline-ish.

[Flex]

Dissociation of the pharmacological effects of THC by mTOR blockade

 

Temsirolimus pre-treatment prevented the amnesic-like effects of chronic THC without affecting the downregulation of CB1 receptors (CB1R) induced by this chronic treatment. Instead, temsirolimus blockade after chronic THC cessation did not prevent the residual cognitive deficit produced by chronic THC.

 

Using conditional knockout mice lacking CB1R in GABAergic or glutamatergic neurons, we found that GABAergic CB1Rs are mainly downregulated under chronic THC treatment conditions

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23358238

Edited by Flex, 23 April 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Ritchie]

Also, if you're smoking weed stop right now and start vaporizing it. Vaping avoids lung cancer risk by up to 95% and also is significantly better for the heart than smoke. Not to mention that vapor is practically odourless whereas weed smoke stinks and it linger for a while.

[Sciencyst]

The answer is COX-2 inhibitors. We had this discussion a while ago, I believe.

Absolutely this. Ibuprofen, aspirin, naproxen can all do the trick. This question was also just asked on /r/nootropics

Edited by katuskoti, 27 April 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[chinaexpert1]

I am currently trying out this stack for MJ use and cognitive boosting:

 

 

 

NAC

MultiVitamin

Modafinil

Pramiracetam

Alpha GPC choline

L Huperzine A

Artichoke Extract

Forskolin

 

and Dihydromyricetin extract to counter the effects of being high so I can study. 

 

Anything else that would counteract Marijuana?

 

I have yet to get my Alpha GPC, L Huperzine and Forskolin yet but I'm already feeling much more clear headed and memory doesnt seem the same it used to be when I am stoned.

 

Ill update once I got the full in stack together for a few days.

 

 

[adamh]

"dope fiends" lol. Marijuana has to be the mildest of the illegal drugs and has many many positive and health inducing properties. I will give you credit for doing your research and not just ranting that its 'evil' or something like that. The mild memory impairment often seen with heavy use is about the only downside. Do we know of any drugs that don't have a downside of some sort? Since little has been said in this thread about the positive aspects of it, remember that it seems to have a chemo side effects preventative effect, a preventive effect against alzheimers and is good for other things such as gloucoma. If a simple strategy like taking ibuprofen or aspirin can reverse the mild side effects of this plant, that seems like a simple strategy. In today's high pressure and high stress world, its nice to be able to relax and let it all go. MJ has a pleasant calming side.

 

Using a racetam will help with mild transient cognitive impairment. I've been trying coluracetam recently and I find it a good short term mental stimulant which does not give jitters. It would be good for those mornings in which its hard to wake up, perhaps from not sleeping well the night before. It would also be good to take before taking a test, an interview or other occasion in which you want to be on top of your game whether you had been using pot or not. Might be good for salesmen or someone giving a speech since it helps memory and reduces butterflies in the stomach.

 

It is good to consider all aspects of a drug, even fish oil, aspirin, etc have their downside. Here are some links to marijuana benefits

 

 

http://www.benefitso...om/benefits.php An overview of the many benefits, physical as well as mental, etc.

 

http://www.benefitso...om/benefits.php Speaks of medical benefits, lists many studies, helps with multiple sclerosis, side effects of chemo, etc

 

http://scholar.googl...ved=0CD4QgQMwAA

Edited by adamh, 25 May 2014 - 12:40 AM.

[gamesguru]

Or just smoke normal weed, instead of ridiculously high THC strains. Or supplement with CBD. Here's why.

 

normally longecity is a place to seek sound advice, but this is just wickity wickity whack.  those schwank 25 dollar eighters are actually the ones with less CBD and more CBN.  CBN inhibits CBD and competes with THC, it's basically a nasty version of THC that you don't want.  you'll save a lot of time by ignoring the whole indica/sativa distinction (the shape of the leaf) and just going by price, smell and appearance.  these guys who grow CBN are also the same turds who pluck their shit early and dump it for low on the dispos.. because it's about to have a shit-ton of seeds (nutrient burn, genetic drift, and more!)  and they never catch it early enough so you end up smoking a bunch of baby seeds which results in a retardedly harsh, CBN-laiden smoke.  you wonder why it's so cheap, because no one fucking wants it.  you'll find wax made with this bud is also trash

 

CBN is pure garbage, fit for a european incinerator.  i smoked a gram of schwag yesterday and barely felt anything, maybe i was high 35 or 40 minutes? then you're fiending for more.  and the whole time you're putting off your chores, dry heaving over an office chair and frantically reciting fragments of existentialist quotes.  that's pretty much what your days will consist of if you take to the cheaper bud.

 

on the other hand, i smoked a half gram of the top shelf bud last night, was carried off by angles but without any nausea; although i still felt lazy, doing dishes is at least possible when you aren't all nauseous and existential.  and when i rolled out of bed 11 hours later, i was still feeling good.  it's a lot better than waking up 40mins later with unbearable pangs.

 

you take to the actual good bud and its not hard to restrict your use to the evening. but if you take some crap that metabolizes out in 30 minutes, no shit you're going to need a pen at work to keep the cravings down

 

 

Or just use it in very tiny amounts. It's dose dependent.

 

Edited by gamesguru, 16 April 2017 - 01:06 PM.

[psychejunkie]

wow! too much supplements and shits!

 

I guess taking a Ibuprofen is much more effective and safer...

[Oakman]

Or just use it in very tiny amounts. It's dose dependent.

 

sthira has the best method IMO, use very, very, nay very tiny amounts indeed. Avoid the deleterious effects, enjoy the rest.

 

BTW, interesting read to be brought back from the dead. Must be the memory problem lol.

 

psychejunkie, not sure what the heck you are saying there, too much slang, but you'd be better off in places (CO) where cannabis is lab tested, you buy what you want, not some illegal street chaff. There are dozens and dozens of varieties, rec and med for the choosing. Slowly things are getting better in this regard in many states.

 

For example:

 

[Ruth]

5-HTP attenuates memory impairment by THC.

 

ref: "Involvement of 5HT neuronal system in THC-induced impairment of spatial memory"

NCBI  

Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol (6 mg/kg, i.p.), which impairs spatial memory, significantly increased the 5-HT content in the ventral hippocampus. A microdialysis study showed that Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol (6 mg/kg, i.p.) decreased 5-HT release in the ventral hippocampus. The 5-HT precursor, 5-hydroxy-L-tryptophan (5-HTP; 50 mg/kg, i.p.), the 5-HT re-uptake inhibitor, clomipramine (0.01 and 0.1 mg/kg, i.p.), the 5-HT receptor agonist, 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeODMT; 0.01 and 0.03 mg/kg, i.p.), and the 5-HT(2) receptor agonist, 1-(2,5-dimethoxy 4-iodophenyl)-2-amino propane (DOI; 10 microg/kg, i.p.), significantly attenuated the Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol-induced impairment of spatial memory.

[Ruth]

THC exhibited neuroprotective effect against all toxins probably by activation of PPAR-γ receptors
THC is an PPAR-γ agonist...

[James42S]

A lot of fresh thoughts on this topic is discussed on https://cannasos.com/

[BioHacker=Life]

High dose long term CBD is the best approach imho. It's an antagonist of the CB receptors and reverses THC induced downregulation.