65 replies to this topic

[Freebytes]

If I have had some C60oo at room temperature for several months, would it still be worth using? What about a year? Two years? At what point do you think it becomes oxygenated enough that it is a problem? If it is sealed air tight, would it still go bad eventually? I am curious as to the input from other people about ways to determine if and when C60oo expires.

[niner]

Funny you should ask... I've been thinking about this lately. I mixed my first batch in September of 2012. At the time, I was of the opinion that oxygen and light were not significant problems, and I was rather cavalier in my storage arrangements. I used a 750ml bottle that was sealed with a cork. Not only was it not truly airtight, but it was over a year's supply, and as I used it, the airspace in the bottle grew ever larger. To make matters worse, it was a clear glass bottle. I chose it specifically because I wanted to be able to gauge the color of the mixture, but after it was done I stupidly left it in this inappropriate container. The bottle was never in direct sun, which would have been a colossal error, but it spent a lot of time in an environment that was not entirely dark. Around May 2013, I noticed that one of the effects of c60-oo, the elimination of my very long term chronic eczema, was starting to fail. Increasing the dose didn't really help. Finally, last week I opened a second bottle of c60-oo that I had mixed at the same time. This bottle was full the entire time, and never opened. It was also a green glass olive oil bottle, although it was also sealed with a cork. Less than a week later, my eczema cleared up again for the first time in about six months. This leads me to believe that the second batch, although slightly over a year old, is still good.

I think that the first bottle went bad in about six months due mostly to oxygen exposure, with light exposure possibly playing a role. If the future, I plan to store c60-oo in brown glass bottles using screw tops with polyethylene seals. While I might make a fairly large batch, I'll store it in bottles small enough to last no more than a few months, and freeze them until they are ready to use.

My experience to date suggests that if stored in a full bottle in the dark at room temperature, it will last at least a year. Freezing it should dramatically lengthen the shelf life. If you store it abusively, and do "everything wrong" in the manner that I did, it will still be reasonably good for several months, possibly a little longer.

[Adaptogen]

My c60 still hasn't dissolved completely. If i shake my olive oil before pouring there is a fairly high concentration of visible particles. I've just been letting it settle before i measure out some to take and pretty much all of the visible particles seem to settle within 10-15 minutes. do you think this is an okay method of consumption? was it more or less concluded that filtration is not necessary?

[YOLF]

So what does this mean for someone using SV C60? IIRC my bottle is brown, but the amount of O2 in it does increase with use, though I've only been giving it to my cat.

[cuprous]

If you are truly worried about oxygen you should store your c60oo in a pipette and wrap it in tinfoil when not checking the quantity remaining. Probably a cap of some sort for the end would be good to restrain bacterial growth.

[Turnbuckle]

Keep it in the freezer. Room temperature is about 22C and the typical freezer temp is about -18C. That is a 40C differential. Chemical reactions double roughly every 10C, so that's 2^4--a factor of 16. Thus if your oil lasts 3 months at room temp, it will last 4 years in the freezer.

[cuprous]

Keep it in the freezer. Room temperature is about 22C and the typical freezer temp is about -18C. That is a 40C differential. Chemical reactions double roughly every 10C, so that's 2^4--a factor of 16. Thus if your oil lasts 3 months at room temp, it will last 4 years in the freezer.

For the record, am I correct in recalling that we should not store c60oo in the fridge as the fats and water will separate?

[Turnbuckle]

Keep it in the freezer. Room temperature is about 22C and the typical freezer temp is about -18C. That is a 40C differential. Chemical reactions double roughly every 10C, so that's 2^4--a factor of 16. Thus if your oil lasts 3 months at room temp, it will last 4 years in the freezer.

For the record, am I correct in recalling that we should not store c60oo in the fridge as the fats and water will separate?

There is no water. Perhaps 1/10 of 1% or so. Not enough to make any difference for our purposes. A good way to store it is to obtain small amber bottles from Amazon, of sufficient size to hold two or three months worth, and storing these filled bottles in the freezer. You can then remove one when you need a new bottle, and not have to thaw out your whole supply.

These come in various sizes.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 October 2013 - 07:42 PM.

[niner]

If you are truly worried about oxygen you should store your c60oo in a pipette and wrap it in tinfoil when not checking the quantity remaining. Probably a cap of some sort for the end would be good to restrain bacterial growth.

I don't recommend this. Pipettes are not meant for storage. Just keep it in a sealed bottle that isn't much larger than the amount of oil you're keeping in it. i.e., don't store an ounce of oil in a liter bottle.

Since I dose monthly, I am going to buy a bunch of small bottles that will hold a month's worth of oil. I'll make a large batch, put it in the small bottles, then freeze them all. I'll just thaw one bottle at a time and use it. This plan would work even for daily dosing; you'd just keep one bottle thawed for a month.

I don't want to give the impression that any oxygen exposure whatsoever will ruin a batch. It's not THAT sensitive. It's just not so stable that you can keep it around forever. For example, my poorly-stored batch stayed good for about six months, though it was undoubtedly declining the entire time.

[YOLF]

Hmmm... the separation sounds interesting...

What could chilling C60 to different temperatures in a our freezer/fridge tell us about what oils actually hold the C60? Such an experiment may reduce the shear amount of oil one must ingest to take such a tiny amount of C60! Would we see a color separation as the stuff separates? Does anyone have pics of their frozen/refridgerated supply?

[niner]

If you're going to buy small bottles, be sure to get a polyseal cap, not a cap that's sealed with paper. Here's an example of a bottle with good reviews Wheaton Boston Round bottles These are kind of expensive for the one oz size, but they have a good deal on the 2 oz size.

[YOLF]

I bought some of these for random projects a while back and they certainly aren't paper gasketted, I'll have to dig them out and see exactly what kind of caps they have, but they are alot cheaper than the amazon ones and seemed to work for what I used them for. IIRC they are some kind of plastic or they seal to the caps themselves. Do you have a pic of the screw cap?

http://www.specialty...sbottlesmi.aspx

[niner]

I bought some of these for random projects a while back and they certainly aren't paper gasketted, I'll have to dig them out and see exactly what kind of caps they have, but they are alot cheaper than the amazon ones and seemed to work for what I used them for. IIRC they are some kind of plastic or they seal to the caps themselves. Do you have a pic of the screw cap?

http://www.specialty...sbottlesmi.aspx

Good prices and you can get any quantity- that's pretty good. I couldn't figure out what kind of caps they had, though. The polyseal cap looks like an ordinary black cap on the outside, but on the inside it has a conical polyethylene seal.

[hav]

As a curious aside, I froze about a half liter of mixed c60/oo for about 6 months and moved it to the fridge when I thought I was about week or 2 away from needing it. Oddly, after 2 weeks in the fridge it still had not changed appearance and seemed to remain in a frozen state. It completed its thaw-out when I removed it from the fridge over night and looks and tastes like it reverted completely to normal.

Howard

[niner]

As a curious aside, I froze about a half liter of mixed c60/oo for about 6 months and moved it to the fridge when I thought I was about week or 2 away from needing it. Oddly, after 2 weeks in the fridge it still had not changed appearance and seemed to remain in a frozen state. It completed its thaw-out when I removed it from the fridge over night and looks and tastes like it reverted completely to normal.

It might be better to just go directly from freezer to countertop, and skip the fridge. We had some discussion a while back about olive oil freeze-thaw cycles being harmful. The consensus was that freezing was the best approach for long term storage, but might be a net loss for very short term storage. The reason I think it might be better to skip the fridge is that it would spend more time around the liquid-solid transition point, and might accrue more damage than quickly passing through the melting temperature. I've frozen olive oil for over a year and had it taste as good as new when thawed. The oil expands when it melts, and corks tend to pop out. A more airtight seal, like a polyseal cap, would maintain the reduced pressure during freezing and wouldn't present this problem.

[stephen_b]

I bought some of these for random projects a while back and they certainly aren't paper gasketted, I'll have to dig them out and see exactly what kind of caps they have, but they are alot cheaper than the amazon ones and seemed to work for what I used them for. IIRC they are some kind of plastic or they seal to the caps themselves. Do you have a pic of the screw cap?

http://www.specialty...sbottlesmi.aspx

Good prices and you can get any quantity- that's pretty good. I couldn't figure out what kind of caps they had, though. The polyseal cap looks like an ordinary black cap on the outside, but on the inside it has a conical polyethylene seal.

I gave them a call. The standard caps have a foam seal. They do offer the polyethylene caps at $0.15 each, but they must be ordered over the phone as an extra.

[Freebytes]

Every time I use it on my face in the morning before work, my wife can tell the difference in my appearance later in the day when I get home. "Have you been using your oil?" she asks. She says it makes me look younger. I am not sure if it is caused by the 'greasy' appearance or if it is actually having a positive impact. Nonetheless, I have been using the same batch for a while now. I started to become more concerned because I do not want to reach a point where it starts doing more harm than good. The next question is what about the C60 itself? Would it be okay to simply make new batches from the old C60, or should I get new C60 as well? It is stored in the same plastic tube from when it was shipped, but it has been opened repeatedly.

[YOLF]

I had rubbed some on my face after a sun burn, I hadn't shaved for a few days and didn't get the lower half of my face as a result. The lower half peeled slowly and the top half peeled in a few tiny dots but was otherwise fine and the skin looked tighter for a while afterwards.

[niner]

The next question is what about the C60 itself? Would it be okay to simply make new batches from the old C60, or should I get new C60 as well? It is stored in the same plastic tube from when it was shipped, but it has been opened repeatedly.

It should be ok if it's in the same large crystalline form that it came with (at least if it's like what I bought from SES) C60 reacts with O2, but if it's in a large crystal, most of it is on the inside of the crystal and is protected. If you grind it up, then it will degrade more quickly in oxygen.

[NanoDoom]

Every time I use it on my face in the morning before work, my wife can tell the difference in my appearance later in the day when I get home. "Have you been using your oil?" she asks. She says it makes me look younger. I am not sure if it is caused by the 'greasy' appearance or if it is actually having a positive impact. Nonetheless, I have been using the same batch for a while now. I started to become more concerned because I do not want to reach a point where it starts doing more harm than good. The next question is what about the C60 itself? Would it be okay to simply make new batches from the old C60, or should I get new C60 as well? It is stored in the same plastic tube from when it was shipped, but it has been opened repeatedly.

I seem to recall that scientist in the video linked in this forum telling us that c60 should not be exposed to UV-light, as this would render it harmful.

This makes me think applying c60-OO to the skin in the morning is a bad idea (sunlight).
I'd only apply it before going to bed - and wash it off in the morning, just to be on the safe side.

[free10]

Every time I use it on my face in the morning before work, my wife can tell the difference in my appearance later in the day when I get home. "Have you been using your oil?" she asks. She says it makes me look younger. I am not sure if it is caused by the 'greasy' appearance or if it is actually having a positive impact. Nonetheless, I have been using the same batch for a while now. I started to become more concerned because I do not want to reach a point where it starts doing more harm than good. The next question is what about the C60 itself? Would it be okay to simply make new batches from the old C60, or should I get new C60 as well? It is stored in the same plastic tube from when it was shipped, but it has been opened repeatedly.

I seem to recall that scientist in the video linked in this forum telling us that c60 should not be exposed to UV-light, as this would render it harmful.

This makes me think applying c60-OO to the skin in the morning is a bad idea (sunlight).
I'd only apply it before going to bed - and wash it off in the morning, just to be on the safe side.

C60's magic with the skin, if any, comes from taking C60 internally. There is no real reason to put it on the skin on the outside, which is basically a dead layer of cells. People are reporting good results not bad ones, from being in strong sunlight while taking C60 too.

[Turnbuckle]

Every time I use it on my face in the morning before work, my wife can tell the difference in my appearance later in the day when I get home. "Have you been using your oil?" she asks. She says it makes me look younger. I am not sure if it is caused by the 'greasy' appearance or if it is actually having a positive impact.

I'll almost guarantee if you use olive oil without the C60, you will get exactly the same results.

[niner]

I'll almost guarantee if you use olive oil without the C60, you will get exactly the same results.

While there's almost certainly a moisturizing effect from the olive oil, the antioxidant properties of c60 are probably coming into play as well. It seems to work in squalane:

J Nanosci Nanotechnol. 2010 Oct;10(10):6769-74.
Clinical evaluation of fullerene-C60 dissolved in squalane for anti-wrinkle cosmetics.
Kato S, Taira H, Aoshima H, Saitoh Y, Miwa N.

Laboratory of Cell-Death Control BioTechnology, Faculty of Life and Environmental Sciences, Prefectural University of Hiroshima, 562, Nanatsuka, Shobara, Hiroshima 727-0023, Japan.

Highly purified and organic solvent-free fullerene-C60 was dissolved, at nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm, in squalane prepared from olive oil, which is designated as LipoFullerene (LF-SQ) and was examined for usage as a cosmetic ingredient with antioxidant ability. The aim of this study was to assess the anti-wrinkle formation efficacy of LF-SQ in subjects. A total of 23 Japanese women (group I: age 38.9 +/- 3.8, n = 11, group II; age 39.4 +/- 4.3, n = 12) were enrolled in an 8-week trial of LF-SQ blended cream in a randomized, matched pair double-blind study. The LF-SQ cream was applied twice daily on the right or left half of the face, and squalane blended cream (without fullerene-C60) was applied as the placebo on another half of the face. As clinical evaluations of wrinkle grades, visual observation and photographs, and silicone replicas of both crow's feet areas were taken at baseline (0 week) and at 4th and 8th weeks. Skin replicas were analyzed using an optical profilometry technique. The wrinkle and skin-surface roughness features were calculated and statistically analyzed. Subsequently, trans-epidermal water loss (TEWL), moisture levels of the stratum corneum, and visco-elasticity (suppleness: RO and elasticity: R7) were measured on cheeks by instrumental analysis. LF-SQ cream enhanced the skin moisture and the anti-wrinkle formation. LF-SQ cream that was applied on a face twice daily was not effective at 4th week, but significantly more effective than the placebo at 8th week (p < 0.05) without severe side effects. The roughness-area ratio showed significant improvement (p < 0.05) at 8th week with LF-SQ cream as compared to 0 week with LF-SQ cream, but no significant difference was detected between LF-SQ cream and the placebo. We suggest that LF-SQ could be used as an active ingredient for wrinkle-care cosmetics.

PMID: 21137794

[Turnbuckle]

It's unlikely, niner. Freebytes is seeing results the same day, while the experiment with the Japanese women took far longer to show a difference when compared with a control-- LF-SQ cream that was applied on a face twice daily was not effective at 4th week, but significantly more effective than the placebo at 8th week.

[niner]

Good point. He's probably just seeing a vehicle effect then. There could be a long term effect in tandem, but that's probably not what he's seeing.

[hav]

Just got in a few more possible vehicles for c60.

Jojoba Oil seems pretty well suited for topical application. Actually, I read that its technically a liquid wax, not an oil. Something about a sugar molecule being absent from the chain. But as far as its fatty acid content goes, its much like Olive Oil in that its predominantly Oleic with a total mufa content somewhat higher, typically around 90%. Its not very digestible so probably shouldn't be taken orally. I picked up a 16 ounce bottle (origin: Peru) and I rubbed some of the pure stuff on my skin and it rubbed right in pretty quickly. It apparently cannot evaporate so it must have absorbed. I figure if it forms adducts with c60, it might be a good vehicle for getting it into the fatty layer just under the skin. Just threw 80 mg of c60 into a magnetic stirrer with 100 ml of jojoba and it turned light purple after about an hour. So some of it seems to be dissolving. Figure I'll let it go the usual 2 weeks and then filter it.

My other bright idea is Sea Buckthorn Oil. This one's really oil. I picked up a 16 ounce bottle (origin: China) of the fruit variety which looks to be closer to olive oil in fatty acid composition than the leaf or seed varieties. It seems thicker than olive oil, however, and is dark blood-red. Very fruity tasting; reminded me of figs. It seemed to have quite a bit of suspended material in it so I'm filtering it before trying to mix with c60. Which is going pretty slow because of its thickness. Unless I get a 2nd stirrer, I'll have to wait till I free mine up.

Howard

[niner]

Howard, keep us posted on the results with the various oils. I suspect that any triglyceride containing an appropriate fatty acid will work, and that a simple ester of a fatty acid would also work. As it happens, jojoba oil is a mono-ester of mostly monounsaturated chains of c18-c22. If you can get your hands on some ethyl oleate, that would be an interesting test. It should make a more structurally homogeneous compound that would be a lot easier to chemically characterize than the olive oil product. I'm not sure what would happen if you consumed it- I'm guessing that it would be hydrolyzed by generic esterases, but that doesn't happen with jojoba, perhaps because the alcohol end is so long.

[hav]

Howard, keep us posted on the results with the various oils. I suspect that any triglyceride containing an appropriate fatty acid will work, and that a simple ester of a fatty acid would also work. As it happens, jojoba oil is a mono-ester of mostly monounsaturated chains of c18-c22. If you can get your hands on some ethyl oleate, that would be an interesting test. It should make a more structurally homogeneous compound that would be a lot easier to chemically characterize than the olive oil product. I'm not sure what would happen if you consumed it- I'm guessing that it would be hydrolyzed by generic esterases, but that doesn't happen with jojoba, perhaps because the alcohol end is so long.

Ethyl oleate sounds interesting. Noticed it appears as an ingredient in one of LEF's products.

Howard

[YOLF]

Just got in a few more possible vehicles for c60.

Jojoba Oil seems pretty well suited for topical application. Actually, I read that its technically a liquid wax, not an oil. Something about a sugar molecule being absent from the chain. But as far as its fatty acid content goes, its much like Olive Oil in that its predominantly Oleic with a total mufa content somewhat higher, typically around 90%. Its not very digestible so probably shouldn't be taken orally. I picked up a 16 ounce bottle (origin: Peru) and I rubbed some of the pure stuff on my skin and it rubbed right in pretty quickly. It apparently cannot evaporate so it must have absorbed. I figure if it forms adducts with c60, it might be a good vehicle for getting it into the fatty layer just under the skin. Just threw 80 mg of c60 into a magnetic stirrer with 100 ml of jojoba and it turned light purple after about an hour. So some of it seems to be dissolving. Figure I'll let it go the usual 2 weeks and then filter it.

My other bright idea is Sea Buckthorn Oil. This one's really oil. I picked up a 16 ounce bottle (origin: China) of the fruit variety which looks to be closer to olive oil in fatty acid composition than the leaf or seed varieties. It seems thicker than olive oil, however, and is dark blood-red. Very fruity tasting; reminded me of figs. It seemed to have quite a bit of suspended material in it so I'm filtering it before trying to mix with c60. Which is going pretty slow because of its thickness. Unless I get a 2nd stirrer, I'll have to wait till I free mine up.

Howard

Very interesting! Can't wait to see how it works out. I'd like other options, though less oil would be better. Being able to take just a few drops would make it so much easier.

[hav]

I took a quick look at the jojoba oil which has been mixing with c60 a little over 2 days now and it appears to be completely dissolved. The c60 seems to have dissolved allot quicker than with olive oil. At least I don't see any grains at the bottom of the beaker. I'm wondering if it'll take more. It's gotten a little darker in color but is still quite a bit lighter than the c60/oo pictured right next to it. I've also attached the coa which shows its mostly C20:1 gadoleic (aka, eicosenoic acid?) rather than oleic as I originally thought.

 jojoba_6974.jpg   56.76KB   26 downloads

Howard

Attached Files

•  jojoba_coa_8606.jpg   63.55KB   22 downloads

Edited by hav, 09 November 2013 - 06:52 AM.