“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topichttp://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554Oct. 23, 2013
His arguments always require a leap from logic to unsupported assertion. He just hides it better, in a flurry of showmanship, like a fairground snake-oil salesman.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619355This is another piece of conjuring.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619380I a not impressed by your reference to a God gene. That is tabloid press overinterpretation of shoddy research, the same as the silly idea that there is a special centre in the brain that works for religion.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619774I struggle to cope with the idea that anyone could take such peurile nonsense seriously. Can you find anyone else on the planet who can't see the hilarious silliness is proposition 2? The cause of the universe is an unsolved question. I could say it was caused by the fairies at the bottom of my garden with as much justification and grip on reality.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619821I long ago got bored arguing with a stream of unattributed quotes and misapplied misunderstood ideas from, as usual, again, unattributed sources. If you strip out the abuse there is nothing left that is original to the poster.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623323I've put many logical points here.....you never address them....you either post another link or a short irrelevant insult. If you produced your objections to my posts in your own words and in the form of a proper logical discussion, I would treat you with more respect.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623447I don't believe in any of the proposed gods. i have never seen a sound argument for accepting any of the god propositions. I do find the mental gymnastics of believers fascinating. From a psychological point of view, the mental gyrations of intelligent and educated believers tell us a lot about how the mind works, and the evolution of gods, from the completely understandable primitive forms to the modern versions, tells us a lot about the history of human understanding and culture.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623500Once again you demonstrate your inability to deal with anything other than competitive quoting. The last few posts all dealt calmly and rationally with the problem of the possibility of evidence for any sort of religion, but you just declare it to be off topic
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623693True believers are major practitioners of voluntary confirmation bias. Shadowhawk probably actually genuinely believes he has answered my points but in fact he has never even gone as far as to admit their existence
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623784He teaches logic? At a university? Really? Which one; there's not a lot in Scotts Valley since Bethany U. closed down in 2011.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623912the fundamental problem with all of these arguments is that they are trivial semantic tricks, but they have other flaws as well.
....he is indulging in dishonesty as well as cheap semantic trickery.
http://www.longecity...120#entry624206Sarcastic remarks befitting a "teacher from hell" do nothing to advance the argument.
ID and its variants are an attempt to use pseudo-science and superficial compliance with scientific method to fake up an argument in support of the same old religious position its proponents have always held.
More "teacher from hell" fury
http://www.longecity...120#entry625186do you read responses? If so do you understand what you've read? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? ....Do you write? Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas? Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?...I have asked him these questions too; over and over, and never had a meaningful answer. He raises a point then abuses you for being "off topic" or calls your answer a logical fallacy, but without ever offering any argument to back this up...This passage is a perfect example of the incoherent rage and misrepresentation that he resorts too...
http://www.longecity...120#entry625349"There's no evidence of the supernatural claims of Christianity, but there's plenty of evidence of Christianity's brainwashing, as perfectly evidenced in this topic."
http://www.longecity...150#entry625777what a load of rubbish. Talking fast doesn't improve the quality of the rubbish and just because he piles it high doesn't mean it turns to gold. These are just the same arguments we've seen over and over, and dismissed just as often. They didn't hold water last week and they'll still leak like sieves next week. The only difference this time is that the format is obviously aimed at bolstering the faith of the most credulous and uneducated believers.
I see no point in elaborating. You haven't given a reasoned objection on any of the many times I've elaborated before. If you can't participate like the adults on this forum why don't you go somewhere else?
http://www.longecity...150#entry625800He's basically a religiously obsessed troll and I should just learn to ignore him.
http://www.longecity...150#entry626020You may not have noticed but you're talking to yourself. You denied the existence and sincerity of everyone else's contributions so they've all gone away to somewhere an actual conversation is taking place.
http://www.longecity...180#entry627792Hugh Ross has been criticized by CSUF professor emeritus Mark Perakh for crude errors and misunderstanding of basic concepts of thermodynamics together with misinterpretations of Hebrew words....much of this stuff is just a case of piling shit into very high heaps.
http://www.longecity...180#entry629696So I gave you chance to act like a decent honest human. You failed. Goodbye.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630367His ultimate justification for his conversion is that he had an experience; confusing events entirely in his brain with external reality, which is practically the definition schizophrenia. Many of the statements of religious people would be signs of mental illness if made outside a religious context. I've given him chance after chance to engage in a proper analysis of arguments but he only responds with abuse and derision. Looking over his performance in other topics I would have agree; there is a pattern.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630418There is something quite self deluding about the believers claim to know what lies beyond current knowledge. The fact that science cannot answer the question might be regarded as a warning sign by sensible people, but the believer steps right in and says " We know the answer."
http://www.longecity...210#entry631071You are more guilty of all these logical errors than anyone else Shadowhawk. You are entranced by cheap semantic tricks and shabby failed old "proofs" that nobody takes seriously, except W L Craig, who nobody takes seriously. Additionally you constantly abuse people in the most gratuitously insulting way, and presume to know things about them that, really, you clearly don't.
http://www.longecity...240#entry634080The Kalam is a shabby seive....There are a huge number of flaws in this tired old argument. It should have been allowed to rest in its grave rather than being resurrected by Craig. One simple problem in it is that the argument as a whole is a compounding error.
http://www.longecity...270#entry634607You've summed up this nonsense pretty completely. How can somebody who claims to be a teacher of logic possibly give this more than the few seconds needed to see that it is so trivially stupid that it it isn't even wrong. It's not wrong because it is so far from being any kind of coherent argument that it doesn't fit into any kind of error category. Don't expect any sort of reasoned explanation of why he thought it was worth posting; he never explains why he is shouting, "off topic", or "logical fallacy", or "straw man" or whatever is his insult of the week. I have never yet seen him explain any claimed logical objection. Not once. Not ever.
http://www.longecity...270#entry635057As usual you have ducked the issue when somebody makes a criticism of your logic. Answer the point or admit you can't.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635439I'm challenging you again...answer the point instead of pretending that nothing has been said. Prove your not a fraud.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635586Like all these proofs, the immediate reaction to this, of any reasonable uncommitted person, is a strong feeling that it is nonsense; it looks like logic and it all seems to be in working order, but an ordinary grade BS detector tells you something is wrong. It's very wrong. This crock can be used to prove the existence of just about anything, gods, man-eating teapots, fairies, whatever you like. It's all in the definition used at the start. You can use it to prove god does not exist by negating the first premise. It is a great source of silliness because it is ultimately worthless.
http://www.longecity...330#entry636845The argument is worthless because it can used to prove the existence of things, such as fairies, which are patently absurd. This alone is enough to expose it as a mere semantic conjuring trick. Powerful tools, like guns and modal logic, should not be put in the hands of infants, madmen or people with an axe to grind.
http://www.longecity...330#entry637384One of the many difficulties involved in arguing with Christians is their incorrigible dishonesty. It's exactly the same problem as when creationists and intelligent designers say that they are not claiming that a specific god did it. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry637969find it hard to understand how a grown adult can seek to use such shamelessly aggressive denials when the facts are only a short scroll away....Just because something is possible does not make it actual, and when you combine it with the definitional issues you have chosen to avoid confronting, the whole thing is exposed as a steaming pile. S5 is a very dangerous piece of sophistry.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638268No doubt you will declare yourself the winner simply by repeating all the rubbish over and over and ignoring all the other poster's points. Then you can reward yourself with some emoticons. Do you really imagine anyone will waste their time going back over your endless paste jobs? They don't suddenly become correct by repetition.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638353The non believers understand perfectly. What is keeping us from agreeing with SH is the fact that his arguments are poor and mostly just wrong, and occasionally not even that. His style is offensive dishonest and evasive and would push people away from him and his god. From the quality of the posts here I would guess that we don't need to plead lack of intellect or knowledge. We are quite used to being patronised by believers so don't feel guilty about your remarks; we understand.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638543I would treat you with more respect if you behaved better. Everyone else presents points and addresses the points made by others. You keep trying to compel everyone to talk only to you. Your comment about trying to derail the topic is very revealing; do you start the topic with a rigid plan which concludes with us all converting? In an open discussion nobody should be dictating the proceedings. It isn't actually a crime to pursue the topic as we want, or to examine aspects of it that you find inconvenient.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638579post 386
Clearly you have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil which has interacted with your religious faith, but, it has no bearing on the issues here. SH has presented a debate on evidence for Christianity and that is what we have addressed. Unfortunately it has been one sided. We have raised logical points and he has ignored them and/or shouted abuse.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638766Your view of the relationship between SH and the other posters is so bizzare that your only possible excuses are either religious delusions or that you are taking the piss. (if you know the expression? It's British) If your post is serious it is deeply offensive and shows massive ignorance of other people's lives and personal dignity and worth.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638782Looks like the topic is thoroughly derailed. Now you know the difference.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638963Now that your fellow believer (he is an agnostic, not a christian) has really derailed the topic you might like to rethink the way you answer the rest of us. You may not recall it but I do remember previously saying that if we knew which of the Christian gods you adhere to, it would make it much easier to address the issues. Not in those words precisely, but I have life to live, stuff to do.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638966For me this is like some random overheard snippet from a highly controlled, paranoid, alien culture. I'm not sure I could communicate meaningfully with the writer; the cuture specific references are so dense and so opaque that the intended meaning escapes.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638987In a general sense I can go along with much of this. This topic is going nowhere. SH keeps posting more and more clips of preachers claiming to prove the existence of a god; they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence....You might argue for ever about the definition of god; (religious people usually conduct those arguments with guns and swords; they obviously don't have much faith in reasoning) but there's not much to go on except holy books written by people who couldn't and didn't have any evidence or understanding of the nature of the problem....Our universe might be a simple accident to something that big, or a brief and temporary amusement; a throwing of celestial mechanical dice to see what happens. Whatever, it's a long way from christianity.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639682...."they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence" Where do you see any claims about what I have done?....your whole response goes on like this. Red Herrings, Straw Men, Logical Fallacies; you've got them all. This is why you are a waste of time, and wasting your own proselitizing time.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639761You are really one of the most offensive people I've ever wasted time on. Are you calling me a liar? Really? Sitting there in California you know I'm not in the middle of moving house? You lie, you smear, you misrepresent and you constantly accuse everyone else of the things you do yourself.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639881OK I get the message; you are supposed to be a teacher of logic and you haven't been able to answer a single one of these points, so you hate me to the greatest degree that a love everybody christian can manage. (i.e. a lot) If you were a decent human being I would feel sorry for you and try to be nice but since I am ASD and care very deeply for the rules and honesty, I find it very hard to apply the psychological lessons I've learned; your case is extreme.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640437Very noble and sensible, but look at the hate filled diatribes that follow your post. What I would like is a reasoned discussion of the topic where everybody follows the rules and logical points are met with logical analysis, but it isn't going to happen here; any attempt to challenge his dogmas is met with vitriolic eruptions of accusation and denial. My language may sometimes stray into the colourful but it isn't simple abuse and it does relate to the points being attacked, which are often childishly silly and deserve no leniency when they are put forward by a professional logician. He does not claim to be a civilian in this subject. He is a fully armed combatant, but instead of using his logical weapons he resorts to childish abuse and constant extreme breaches of the rules.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640439The time and effort put into this suggests a dangerous level of obsession, (and too much time on your hands). I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you; I would feel the need of high level security. By the way, to save others from wasting time, the links in the above are just to where the quotes were taken from. They aren't answers to the points, obviously, since no answers were ever given.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640578Well known experiments and theories with no connection to the existence of the Christian god. Such a conclusion would require exactly the same leap, already rejected, from the world of evidence and reason to a world of faith and evidence free presumption
http://www.longecity...450#entry641198You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641426Poor old shadowhawk; doomed forever to go round and round posting the same futile debunked nonsense; posting the same again, and again, and again, and again...............you're persuading nobody, not even yourself.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641868Other people may be confused by that last post of SH. It's from a different topic.(Gobligoop) The massive flaming capitals are, of course his, and not mine. It's a response to an enormous hate list he posted against me; he asked me to show where I had ever made a logical point and then, as usual, didn't like the example I produced. Does anyone else feel that his mental health is in doubt? Should we be encouraging this behaviour since it obviously disturbs him a great deal?
http://www.longecity...540#entry644710You may not have noticed SH, but your deranged attacks on me, the enormous lists of my crimes that you have spent hours compiling, are what is actually derailing this topic, and all the other topics you have posted this stuff in. The scale of it suggests to me that it is derailing your life as well.
http://www.longecity...540#entry644758That sounds extremely paranoid. Dark motive? Really?
http://www.longecity...540#entry644835Are you dislexic? Should we be making allowances for the disordered posts? I'm quite experienced in reading work by a dislexic, and editing it into coherence.
That apart this is just more worthless abuse.
http://www.longecity...540#entry644960Curious and rather sad that you think dislexia is an insult rather than an unfortunate problem. Not long ago I did some editing work on a dislexic's phd. (And before you say something silly, it passed without corrections being required.)
http://www.longecity...570#entry645123f you could learn not to misrepresent what other people say, and start avoiding using a sneer whenever possible, it would be better for everyone.
"The religious don’t know trees move because of the wind?
What a bigoted joke." This is clearly not a bigoted joke, but a comparison of early man's type of thinking with modern scientific thinking. You see bigotry everywhere. That is your problem not mine. As for denying a monopoly on wonder; perhaps you should reread some of your own posts.
http://www.longecity...570#entry646023the fact that theists have devised greekish terms to divide their fantasies into different categories does not mean the categories have any real content. There is no reality beyond the physical. It is all made up. There are no ghosts/spirits/souls etc.
http://www.longecity...570#entry647074What is this mountain of vapidity and vagueness meant to mean? It's certainly not evidence of anything except the tendency of religious folk to like mystical sounding emptiness,
http://www.longecity...570#entry647361Do you imagine anyone reads these summaries, or is impressed by them? If your family and friends saw this they would be very concerned.
http://www.longecity...600#entry647494NO ARGUMENTS, JUST NAME CALLING LOGICAL FALLACIES AND ATTEMPTED DERAILMENT OF TOPIC, “IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??”.
TO POST 602http://www.longecity.../feature/bylawA
Edited by shadowhawk, 09 March 2014 - 12:43 AM.
LongeCity
