13 replies to this topic

[Flex]

Hi there,

I´ve done about 1 year ago a stupid thing.
I´ve tried to fix my cognitive problems caused by THC in the adelocence with Ethylphenidate and short term Cocaine usage (NEVER AGAIN TO BOTH !!!!!).
Got always a harsh come down, until the comedown got "chronic".
Its more a kind of a pain in the chest with fellings of stress, instead of melancholia / sadness.
emotions, hedonia, memory, conetration and cognition got impaired.

Nearly everthing, eihter increased it like: coffeine, clomipramine, ALCAR, Trazodone, Ginseng, Hordenine, passionflower or maprotiline.
Or did´nt helped.


curiously there are two positive things who have changed since then: my anxiety has decreased and Im able to laugh more..

Only THC helped in the short term and Lithium in the long term ( it did modulate it)
But its still dont clear to me what is it.

maybe increased Adrenergic beta receptors? CRF1 ? Tyrosine Hydrooxylase mRNA Immune reactivity ?, DAT mRNA immue reactivity, Vesicle pool damage/ immune reactivity ?
Natrium channel Depletion / mRNA immune reactivity ?
or just Lipid oxidation / apostosis.

I belive that the Caudate is damaged and causing the problems.

Curiously i got since then hairloss (and sometimes when im lacking sleep or take coffeine,an increase of ) Pseudo Tumor Cerebi, which therefore a MRI was made.
I on my own could´nt see any damaged Brain Areals. (I can post or send it enitrely if needed)


Nobody wouldnt or was able to help. I´m now at Psychatrist no. 5 .

Could anybody give me an advice ?
Or is there a Doctor?


I will soon modify my post to make my stack and symptoms more precisely

Edited by Flex, 19 November 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[Braziliandude]

I think cerebrolysin would realllyy help you!!

[Tom_]

You've tried a weird cluster of treatments. How long were you on the antidepressants and what dose did you use?

There is no point guessing at the cause and trying to treat what ever is going on, the tech doesn't exist to do that. You are better off treating the symptoms empirically.

Since this is MDD and Lithium had some efficacy combining it with an antidepressant is the best option.

[Flex]

Thanks Brasiliandude and Tom_

I´ve allready ordered 15x10ml vials cerebrolysine. It should arrive in the next week, IF the customs would´nt stop the Parcel.

And t hanks for the suggestion for emirical treatment.

Everthing exept Amitriptyline, Mitrazepine was for short term.
I had to stop Lithium because of a drug test.
long story, the doctors thought that my ocassionally Weed consumbtion, could be the cause of my depression and that I´m addicted ( altough I said that I used this to treat my depression -.-)

BTW: Recently I´ve found out, that mao-b inhibition i.e. Hordenine or Rhodiola rosea(mao a+b and compt) had some modulatory effects ( but no curing) despite initial elevation of depression.

I have next week a appointment with the same Doc( is at the edge of incompetence) and another, at the same time. So lets see what they say ( and perscribe !).
If theres no succsess or resolution, I would try Cerebrolysine and afterwards the Antidepressant + Lithium combo

[machete234]

I felt down for a month or two after taking a lot of this stuff but then I got back to normal.
If you ask me its completely reversible.

How long since you have quit your stimulant abuse?
Be glad that you took ethylphenidate instead of amphetamines because those are more neurotoxic and not that reversible. EPH like MPH should not be neurotoxic.

Edited by machete234, 08 December 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[andrea23]

flex what dosages did you take of eph, for how long?

[Flex]

In a time period of ca. 4 months.

In this time I´ve taken about roughly 20 grams.

Nowadays I assume that I´ve had allready a precondition in brain damage.

But nevertheless, if that is the case, EP has worsened it.

[Flex]

@ machete

1 Year has left since.

Yeah I´m glad regariding the usage of EP instead of Amph. thats why I used this
but Methylphenidate is indeed (to a lesser extend) neurotoxic !

...Methylphenidate induces lipid and protein damage in prefrontal cortex, but not in cerebellum, striatum and hippocampus of juvenile rats..
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22968482
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22470460 / https://www.ncbi.nlm...33/?tool=pubmed

[Flex]

Just wanted to update:

It got better but the depression is still there.

As I´ve allready posted in other threads, I assume that Vmat2 is damaged and therefore the storage of dopamine is decreased.
And I believe that the symptoms match to the Striatum.
See http://www.longecity...953#entry643953

So a high dose (about 8 capsules/ day) * of Ashwagandha helped me.
(I took the Sensoril extract ( from Jarrow formulas ) since it seems not to be a anticoagulant like the KSM-66 Extract
and make a higher dose possible without using 15 or more mg of vitamin k to block the anticoagulant effects.)

And a high dose* of Gotu Kola as well, in regards to the Memory / Higher thinking decline and mood.
Untill now I made just one Injection of Cerebrolysin, but it semms very promising.

*please consider that I dont giving advice to anybody to overdose like me.
I´m doing this on my own risk! As You see I´ve bought extra for this a vial of pure vitamin K.
There could be possible unkown/not well known side effects like: increased/decreased hearth rythm from Ashwagandha and so on.

[machete234]

Good to hear that you are better now.
I happen to have consumed ashwagandha for quite a while after my EPH abuse, which should be at least a year ago from now probably closer to 1,5-2 years.
I tried several nootropics since then, for example aniracetam, cdp choline, sulbuthiamine, noopept etc.
At some point last year I even lost the urge to smoke, but its impossible to tell what substance caused this. (Yerba mate and modafinil are suspects)

Im feeling better then ever recently (without taking anything) and the damage was not really permanent in my case, thats the point: not very neurotoxic so it shouldnt damage you permanently.

Ashwagandha can be pretty good helping you to overcome obstacles, say fear and low self esteem can hold you back, overcome them and life will be better.

Edited by machete234, 16 February 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Flex]

Glad to hear that You´re fine.

I noticed that Ashwaganhda and Gotu Kola have reversed some conetration problems caused by Thc abuse in the adloescence.
The effect from Ashwa. and the single injection of Cerebrolysin increased my lost euphoria and decreased also the urge for smoking to some extend.

I believe that I have a precondition in regards to the depression.
I have remembered in the past months my first Cigarette experience when I was 13.
It caused me an euphoria and a rush. But after 10 min i went to a state of worrying and self-reproach. This has ended in a 3 weeks enduring Depression with the "blackhole" in my chest.

I have relieved this with a second Cigarette and so started smoking.
This went well, i stopped smoking and begun it again after a few months, but the depression didnt occur again. Untill the last Year, then it came back.

Edited by Flex, 16 February 2014 - 04:09 PM.

[Doktor]

I know this is an old thread, but fuck it.

OP, you are describing classic symptoms of anxiety - trust me. Smart people like you and I tend to think too much, and extrapolate meaning from everything... There is almost NO WAY that you using ethylphenidate (or misusing it) has damaged your brain, unless you had a stroke or abused it for years and years. 

I hate to be this guy, but a lot of people on this board tend to self-diagnose, and not even in medically established ways a lot of the time... myself included at times. Also, I have no fucking idea how so many (smart I might add) people on here believe that periods of drug abuse have DEFINITELY damaged their brain to a noticeable degree. Yes, it is possible, but I don't think many people truly grasp just how resilient the human body is, specifically the brain. I have done a metric fuck-ton of drugs in my past (and I mean HEAPING PROPORTIONS of any illicit drug you can name, and then a lot of research chemicals you've never heard of), and I am holding down a great programming job right now which demands rock solid mental performance... bottom line: It is pretty much 99.9% anxiety that is causing you to feel this way, and an extremely low chance that it is from drug use. Albeit, I am depressed and anxious, but no more-so then I was before I ever touched drugs or drink.

So, likely, you had a bad experience with ethylphenidate, it exasterbated your anxiety, anxiety and depression are co-morbid, you became depressed, yada yada... this is likely the extent of it. I hear a lot of fancy theorys on these boards, but I bet if you go to a doctor and explain this all to them, they will suggest the same thing. I am really not mocking you, I have done the same thing myself... many times. The internet is a terrible thing for people with any kind of anxiety.

Anyway, I know I will get flamed for this, but go see a real doctor (not an orthomolecular, snake-oil peddling loony). It's a good thing! There is probably nothing actually wrong with you, and I bet that once you start working on this you'll feel better in no time. I'm only posting because I feel bad, as I spent countless hours on the interwebs diagnosing myself many times, and all it leads to is irrationality, more anxiety, and more suffering...

[Keizo]

I do believe it is useful to realize that the best cure sometimes is to put oneself to work, get on with ones purpose on this planet. Even if the mechanism of this might only be the distraction it provides (well endlessly reading about diseases might be the distractor).

I myself have experienced plenty of hypochondria etc. Sparked by my benzodiazepine withdrawal. Though I would say it is useful to an extent. Plenty of improvements to the brain to be found & made, for anyone, and improvements to the perhaps relatively inconsequential dysfunctions incurred on my GABA-system.

For one thing, Cerebrolysin seems to have almost eliminated these mental ghosts, and it also seems as if I can reach far beyond my much earlier base-line levels of calm. Near complete eradication of negative thought-loops.

 

Anyway, it would seem obvious that if one has a problem with this elusive "anxiety", substances such as Cerebrolysin and others doing some modulation or up-regulation of GABA-receptors, would actually help any self-perpetuating anxiety. At least better than the leading modern mystics (psychiatrist), or their Flesh of Christ (SSRIs).

Though I realize it would be inane, to some extent I'd like to disregard all intangible mechanisms of mental distress, and attribute it all only to what can be identified and named precisely. Only because of the amount of logical leaps that can be made within these systems of psychology and psychiatry, again and again.

 

Though I would not suggest going to a doctor in these cases, except for basic physiological stuffs, if this above is all the information you need and will be provided. How does a doctor identify the mechanism of a self-perpetuating anxiety? Let alone sub-clinical deficits, or obscure mental brain dysfunctions? Does he have to? Maybe he is only fit to dole out immediate solutions, or shake his shoulders, and at best hold ones hand.

Of course I'm sure some doctors know a thing or two.

 

[Flex]

Thank You very much!

The thing that worried me was that it didnt went away after 1 Month or so, but it was more than 1 Year.

And that I hadnt any stressful life events in the time where it (re)appeared.

Only Mao-B inhibitors and lithium helped acutely, but Mao-A made it a bit worser.

 

Dont get me wrong with this sentece, just want to point out that there is or was something strange.

I went to 3 Psychiatrics, but the first just said that it will go away, and the others and the one to who I went for 3 months, were clueless.

The last said that the Mitrazepine, who I use to sleep would help against the Depression,

which isnt true. Because in this time I was allready using 15-45mg for sleep and this for + 7 Months.

He also suggested to keep on with Lithium, since it helped me. But didnt gave me the perscription. I think because the measurement of the blood level would

be too much for the budget of my Insurance !?

Finnaly I was perscribed Cymbalta, but read about bad side effects and didnt used it.

I´ve used Amitrypline before this for 1-2 Months, but it helped only to some degree and had no modulating effect

 

Only Cerebrolysin helped gradually to get back to nearly baseline.

 

Looking back, I had a precondition from 2012 which caused the first signs of this kind of depression.

It was similair unedurable, smoking Pot was a must, but didnt cured.

Conversely, Stimulants helped me out of this (!?) and a totally relaxing state (a self invented little cognitive behavior therapy so to say.**) who I found out through certain thoughts to find my inner peace and therefore a revlieve of the stress depression back then.

But in 2013 it aint worked anymore

 

I had then negative stressful circumstances (I would for now rather avoid to go in the details) and after a sleepless night the Depressions had started.

In fact I had recently a stress situation and felt this kind of Depression again.

 

So my guess is that a overactive Amygdala seems to cause some enduring or damaging traces.

Again, I agree with You, that self-diagnosis especially to one like me with no real knowledge, leds up the Garden-path.

But I have no choice at the moment and the Doctors where I´ve been werent helpful.

I found out, that out of the nothing Lavender as an example (used for sleep) made it worser. as well as  Quertecin, Cannabis(in the first hour) Alcohol,

Acetyl-Carnitine, Sarcosine and so on.

 

One relative fitting description of the mood alteration, but seemingly without my Pain that I feel, would be this:

 

I have posted about resveratrol in Advanced forum section. I have been taking about 1500 quercetin + 150 mg resveratrol ed, for about a week. Divided in two doses.
For the first few days I felt great. Now, I feel as though my libido is shutdown, feeling unhappy, and irritatable in general. In short, I feel depressed.
What I feel is pure, unadulterated "down" feeling, divorced from any cause. I can trace the thought processes which triggered the mood. I also know those thoughts, however, have no significance in my life. I dismiss the thoughts, but the mood remains.
The fact that I am getting leaner somehow seems unimportant.

http://www.mindandmu...etin-depression

 

** Dont now how to propperly described it. I´ve posted it in a thread here on longecity.

Nothing great, especially if You read it. but it was somehow amazingly helpfull to me.

 

Thank You again very much. I dont want to decourage You and wish honestly that there would be an easier explanation and solution. But I dont now whether, I can totally agree with You.