32 replies to this topic

[1337]

I have recently begun to experiment with Lions Mane mushroom extracts as an adjunct to my regular nootropic regimine.
I must say I am truly impressed.

I find the substance to be very Oxiracetam-like, but with a milder edge and FAR less tendancy to make one irritable. High dose Oxiracetam can leave me feelin exhausted, and subsequently irritable, constanly. Almost like a chronic fatigue effect. Lions mane does not seem to suffer from this.

I first became aware of the Lions Mane throught the products of Paul Stamets. After finding the substance very racetam-like I researched into its use and constituents. The connections to NGF were certainly intriguing.

Has anyone else had the uniformly positive results that I have? I love this stuff so much I am just sure it has got to have something wrong with it. Oxi was the bees knees until I realized my whole presonality had changed, that I was no longer the "easy going goofball intellectual" I had always enjoyed being.

The daily dosing regimines for the majority of the synthetic nootropics are misguided in my experience. I have ALWAYS had negative effects from constant dosing of the substances that exibit a definate effect on me. Ginseng and perhaps Arginine are the only exceptions. Not to say that these negative effect caused me to stop using the substances in every instance, but they have added a bit of caution for sure.

Buy the ticket, take the ride...

I just don't want Lions mane and the whole BDNF/NGF complex to be another Huperzine-A. That substance gets scarier by the year, now there are real reports within the community of definate and longlasting impairment after semi-longterm use of huperzine-a, especially in stacks.

I am wondering: Why is are these products not more popular in the nootropics scene?

Edited by cryonicsculture, 12 May 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[Adaptogen]

What have you noticed from Lion's mane?

I've been taking 5 grams nightly, but haven't really noticed any acute effects. Although, this might be due to the fact that I already supplement with a variety of other neurotrophic factors, such as ashwagandha, gotu kola, curcumin, uridine, intense exercise, etc. I wonder if the effects of lions mane are just another drop in the bucket, or if it works through a different mechanism than most ngf stimulators.

[Godof Smallthings]

I've noticed that when I take Mushroom Wisdom's Super Lion's Mane at the recommended dose of 4 per day, I get a) a bit tired b) experienced itching.

From reading about in far too many places to remember which one I got the info from, the itching is supposed to be proof that it is working. But it was a bit too much for me, so I've reduced the dose to 1 tablet twice daily. No itching anymore.

But there are many confounding factors in my regime right now
- Daily: brisk walk, dual-n-back, magnesium threonate, creatine, zinc chelate, CoQ10, NAC, shilajit, vitamin K2 MK-7, bacopa
- Every other day: 30 min run, 2.5 mg lithium from lithium orotate, 48 LED LLLT
- Occasionally 'as needed': piracetam, sulbutiamine, ginkgo biloba, fish oil, L-phenylalanine

so it is impossible to say what Lion's Mane only is doing, or would do if that was all I was taking/doing.

[_alex_]

I'm gonna try out Lion's Mane also in a few weeks, I spent hours reading about it and I'm a big fan of Paul Stamets work as well. There seem to be only positive things about it except for the itching and that you might get tired from it. Also since it is affecting BDNF/NGF quite a bit you should not take it if you undergo treatment for cancer, since that could potentially increase the growth of the tumor as far as I understand it.

I think it is not more popular because usually people tend to go for artificial derived/concentrated/isolated substances etc when it comes to medicines and supplements. There is not a whole lot of belief but in natural herbal medicine in the west, even though most medications are discovered and engineered from plant constitutions. You can't patent a mushroom or a plant, hence the big money is not there.

[phil8462643]

What have you noticed from Lion's mane?

I've been taking 5 grams nightly, but haven't really noticed any acute effects. Although, this might be due to the fact that I already supplement with a variety of other neurotrophic factors, such as ashwagandha, gotu kola, curcumin, uridine, intense exercise, etc. I wonder if the effects of lions mane are just another drop in the bucket, or if it works through a different mechanism than most ngf stimulators.

Just a thought: Try extract, It might work better. I have never tried Lion's Mane

[1337]

What have you noticed from Lion's mane?...

I find the Lions Mane to be very Racetam-like. This is most noticiable as enhanced colour saturation, enchanced visual clarity and sensitivity to motion. I also notice the familiar "on your game" feeling of oxiracitam.

Enchanced concentration and a general uplifiing of mood have also been noticed since starting the Lions Mane.

This also appears to stack very well with Oxiracetam, Piracetam, Bacopa Minori, Phenylpiracetam, L-Theanine and the usual litany of "smaller" nootropics, i.e. choline suplimentaion, fish oil etc.

Over all I am VERY impressed.

If it were not for the cost from most manufactures I think Lions Mane would be MUCH more popular in the performance enhancement circles.
My supplier offers products made from either the mycelium or from mature fruit bodies. I am currently experimenting with both. I find the actions of the two materials to be noticeably different.

Further experimentation is in order.

Edited by 1337, 26 November 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[crow]

What have you noticed from Lion's mane?...

If it were not for the cost from most manufactures I think Lions Mane would be MUCH more popular in the performance enhancement circles.
My supplier offers products made from either the mycelium or from mature fruit bodies. I am currently experimenting with both. I find the actions of the two materials to be noticeably different.

Further experimentation is in order.

So what is the difference ?
And who is your supplier ? You got me interested enough to try

[1337]

The difference is clear.
The Fruitbody powder is darker and strangely lower density. The effect seems to be more cerebral and have less activity on the senses.

The mycelium powder is medium chocolate brown with a milder taste and higher density. The effects for the mycelial extract seem to be more Oxiracetam-like in its effects. Clear visual enhancement. I am also starting to notice a boost in mood and energy after being on the suppliment for the last few weeks.

I have been buying the mushroom extract from my usual racetam source, Rockymountainnootropics.com. RMN has some VERY affordable lions mane and Reishi powders.

I am really liking this stuff. The racetams can have a "in the red" feeling to them...like you are performing better but that the machine that is your body is working harder to do so. This can leave me feeling burned out and irritable sometimes.

Lions mane NEVER seems to produce this. It is just like you are well-rested and well-fed.
However my girlfriend thinks she may be having issues digesting whole Lions Mane powder and thinks the extracts may be better in sensitive people. I cannot speak to that. However I can say I got a very similar nootropic effect from the Lions Mane Mushroom products offered by HostDefense. These are NOT extracts.

[Adaptogen]

I purchased my bulk, full spectrum Lions Mane from MushroomHarvest.

I've slowly been increasing my doses each day. Last night I took around 7 grams. Not much to note besides sleepiness and fairly vivid dreams. The only really subjective effect i might add is that I seem to have a greater sense of peace and beauty.. sort of like what people seem to mention when taking cerebrolysin and Nsi-189. However, this could very well be nothing, and could also be from the higher doses of uridine, ashwagandha, and gotu kola.

I plan on adding curcumin back into my neurotrophic stack soon.

[BioFreak]

Adaptogen, do you take your dose once a day in the evening? Maybe try in the morning too, to see effects?

Coincidentally I've ordered lions mane too, received it today (swanson full spectrum lions mane mushroom). Just 10 minutes after dosing (2g) everything looks better, and I feel more peaceful (30seconds after I read in your thread it would) :D So... probably placebo. But I'll keep checking. I'm also on ashwagandha, theanine, nac, curcumin, uridine stack, zinc and magneisum.

Meanwhile, I've found the powder, 100g for 15€ or 1kg for 89€. I've read that the dosage can be up to 6-8 gram a day, so I would be sub-dosing...

[Ark]

I think Lion's mane is best taken first thing in the morning, right before exercise and just before bed.

[chainwheel]

Godof, it's most likely the Bacopa making you tired.

I don't know about being racetam like, but I do remember when I was using Paul Stamets Lion's mane (his products are the best as far as fungi goes) along with racetams I would experience mild visual "fireworks" when I would close my eyes. it was compelling and weird at the same time. I haven't noticed much if anything using other brands of Lion's mane. He is one of the best fungi researches on the planet. I'd trust his products over anyone elses.

[_alex_]

Godof, it's most likely the Bacopa making you tired.

I don't know about being racetam like, but I do remember when I was using Paul Stamets Lion's mane (his products are the best as far as fungi goes) along with racetams I would experience mild visual "fireworks" when I would close my eyes. it was compelling and weird at the same time. I haven't noticed much if anything using other brands of Lion's mane. He is one of the best fungi researches on the planet. I'd trust his products over anyone elses.

I agree, Paul Stamets is the man when it comes to mushrooms. I recently inquired about these cancer risk issues people been speculating about concerning Lions Mane. Basically I asked about risk of cancer tumors from NGFs. Here is what I got as reply:
 

Hi Alex, thanks for writing in and getting in touch.

To comment on some of the things you brought up: If it were just nerve growth factor that was unregulated by Lion's Mane then potentially there could be a problem. When we look at all the other compounds that are found in Lion's Mane then we can see how the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. There are literally hundreds of compounds in each of the mushroom species modulating many aspects of immunity. The NGF up regulation is also seen in combination with up regulation of natural killer cells and macrophages. Further research suggests that TNF alpha and NF kappa beta are modulated by Lion's Mane.

The full range of supportive compounds require multiple extraction methods, which is the approach we take with our products.

I hope this helps a little--and welcome any further questions you may have.

Respectfully,

Renee Davis
Fungi Perfecti LLC
(contact details removed by moderation)

Edited by cryonicsculture, 09 September 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Debaser]

I've been taking 500mg Lion's Mane Mushroom, 500mg ALCAR and Omega 3 in the morning for about 10 days and I have not really noticed much. Certainly nothing racetam-like (but racetams have ceased to have much of an effect on me too compared to when I first tried them).

I haven't felt much of a perceptual change. The only thing that I can really guage a possible change with is a sudden and unusoperating ual improvement in a particular computer game. I more than quadrupled my previous score without effort. It seemed like I was aware of more things moving on the screen and able to track more things and once, and more able to react quickly and decide what to do in a shorter amount of time.

[1337]

I've been taking 500mg Lion's Mane Mushroom...

500mg? No, no, no...More like 5000mg.

I personally have been taking the equivalent of ~28g of the dried mushroom per day, in the form of extract of course. The 30% Beta-Glucan standardized extracts that I buy make it an easy task. They are about 8x the concentration of "goodies" compaired to the whole mushrooms. And at 300mg x 3 three times per day, it adds up pretty quickly.

However the price is right and I have yet to notice any detriment.

I love this stuff.

[Adaptogen]

is that correct? my lions mane from mushroomharvest is 15% beta glucan content and it is not an extract, so how is yours 8x the potency if its only double the percentage of polysaccharides?

[1337]

It is...FULL SPECTRUM 8x...

I had my questions as well. I assumed the extract was a 2x due to the 15% Whole mushroom powders available.
So I asked, "30% beta glucans? That is roughly double the natural concentration of polysaccarides in the lions mane mushroom correct?"

However, my manufactuer is quoted here in his reply:
"---> you can think so, The extraction uses Protease and Cellulase with hot pure water, with ethanol precipitation. 1kg product should be extracted from 8~9kg dry Lions Mane."



The beta-glucan is the least of our concerns as far as nootropic effects go, but you knew that already.

[chainwheel]

Their extracting process is not to be scoffed at. I noticed far more effect on their encapsulated Lion's mane extract than consuming 5 grams a day of the real mushroom heads I bought in chinatown and ground up on my own (which was 1/10 of the price by the way).

Additionally for those who are into mitochondrial potentiation. try the Host Defense cordyceps! If I am out of shape and I take it I can jog as if I had been jogging daily for a month. That's how good it is! again, I bought cordyceps in China town and ground the shit up and consumed it myself and no such effect! Here are some articles for those interested in the properties of some mushrooms:.

http://www.fungi.com...s & Health.html

[blacksalt]

How does dosing with the raw ingredient compare? It's available in my local grocery, although I'm not sure I'd have the time & patience to prep & cook everyday.

[chainwheel]

I used dehydrated mushroom from China. There it's often called Monkey's head or Monkey's beard. I just ground up the dehydrated heads in my coffee grinder. it was a light fluffy off white powder when done. I heard foodwise, the mushrooms taste yummy, like seafood in butter.

[Debaser]

I've been taking 500mg Lion's Mane Mushroom...

500mg? No, no, no...More like 5000mg.

It's definitely 500mg full spectrum Lion's Mane Mushroom. It says take 1-2 per day. Are you saying I should take 10 per day? Because they were quite expensive. I certainly couldn't afford that for long.

[Adaptogen]

Well, he is using an extract so it is must more cost effective. I'm using a bulk powder, which is also more cost effective than encapsulated whole mushroom powder.

An important thing to consider in regards to mushroom consumption, particularly when purchasing from a local asian market, is that heat and micronization work pretty well to break the cell walls and allow for better absorption. I'm not sure if eating them raw will do anything.

I also came across a couple products that include piperine with mushroom extract to enhance bioavailability. I'll try adding a half tsp black pepper to my next cordyceps and lions mane doses

[arvcondor]

If Lion's Mane weren't cost prohibitive, I would be using it regularly. One of the most reliable supplements I've ever used.

[1337]

The cost from RMN is really quite reasonable...

30USD per month is affordable for me and quite justifiyable in light of what it does.

About the same price as Oxiracetam.

[SnowFlake]

Hello guys,
I've started supplementing with a powder that was sold to me as Lion's mane polysaccharide extract. It's brownish/reddish in color and tastes a little like those meat flavor packets that come with noodle packages. Price was $36 for 250 grams from a vendor on aliexpress.
It dissolves completely into warm to hot water and doesn't leave any residue in the cup when I have finished my drink. The mushroom-water solution in itself is very mild in taste and I kinda like it. I've also added some vitamin C as I read it may increase the bioavailability of the polysaccharides.

I am not so sure about the effects yet as I have only been taking it for 3 days now. I kind of get this mild calm and serene feeling but it could be all placebo. The dosage has been around 1 gram per day. I have noticed though that shortly after ingestion my heart rate is increased and I get very mild palpitations.
Has anyone else noted this same effect?

[fntms]

As I answered to your pm, I developed a case of annoying palpitations which might be due to the Lion's mane extract I was taking. The palpitations stayed since discontinuing 5 months ago, so maybe the LM up regulated or down regulated something... or maybe there was too much BDNF floating around... (there is a pubmed article linking bdnf to heart issues).
Interestingly and to my huge relief, the palpitations have stopped almost entirely since I started taking small daily doses of sulbutiamine...
In any case it's probably best to cycle the LM until we know more about the way it works.

[1337]

In my experiences one CANNOT cycle Lions Mane if they wish to get the most out of it. I only really began to see what the Lions Mane can do after I started dosing 3x per day continuously.

I take an amount close to the high end of the spectrum I guess, ~3g of extract (roughly 28g of fruitbody/mycelium equivalent) and have never had palpitations.
And I am somewhat prone to them too! I used to get episodes of angina, palpitations, and bradycardia-like symptoms (always alone never mixed) a few years ago but was able to completely resolve my symptoms by losing weight and dosing fish oil. This was before any experimentation with lions mane.

I am sorry you do not tolerate the mushroom. I have found them to be a very useful when used daily over a longer period of time.

[fntms]

Yes it's definitely a very useful mushroom, great for memory, word recall.
I would like to know how it works though... for instance I read somewhere that the chaga mushroom is an ACHe inhibitor and I wouldn't want that...

[ron45]

I am taking lion's mane powder from Swanson mostly because of the stuff it does behind the scenes. But having quit doing drugs [ everything all the time ]in `74, the idea of doing stuff to change the way I feel or look at the world after all these years is most welcome. Having made it thru the 60s in Malibu Ca, and at age 69 next month I welcome the all the help I can get from nootropics. I made a little piracetam spoon for smaller doses late a night when I work on music. Great fun. I wouldn't care if it was legal or not as long as it was available. Actually if all this stuff was illegal it would be more exciting.

I'm betting the extracts are much more potent than the powder I use. I don't notice anything so far but I wasn't expecting to notice changes right away.

I was taking eighteen 00 caps of turmeric a day with bromelane and ginger at a much lower dose and it took 10 days to clear a #8 pain in both shoulders. The alternative is surgery and my wife did not have a good experience with the same kind of surgery. My shoulder joint is not any different, it' just the pain that has been gone for about 2 years now. I still take 8 caps of turmerica day as a maintenance dose. I cap it my self @ 9 bux or so a pound for organic. Turmeric is not well absorbed in humans. Hence the large dose. The curcumin extracts are supposed to be better absorbed but all those caps keep my fingernails happy! And of course it is much cheaper to use.

Ron

[ron45]

What have you noticed from Lion's mane? I've been taking 5 grams nightly, but haven't really noticed any acute effects. Although, this might be due to the fact that I already supplement with a variety of other neurotrophic factors, such as ashwagandha, gotu kola, curcumin, uridine, intense exercise, etc. I wonder if the effects of lions mane are just another drop in the bucket, or if it works through a different mechanism than most ngf stimulators.

Hi, I'm curious about your reasons for using uridine. I looked it up on wikipedia and it was tough to follow some of the chemical pathways. It sounded like it might not get past the liver and digestive tract if i read correctly. I use gotu kola and turmeric, haven't tried ashwaganda but use ginseng in it's place.

Ron