37 replies to this topic

[Xenthide]

Hi all,

I have recently become aware of these things, "Peptide Bioregulators" produced in Russia... I am not sure how seriously to take some of the fairly surprising claims about the effects of these chemicals.

Everyone is very focused on Epitalon recently, but it seems to me that this one compound is just one of many peptides produced by the same Russian research team that came up with Epitalon. In fact there seem to be many more peptides with more targeted and specific effects than Epitalon itself.

A product catalog of some of these peptides can be found here:

http://www.peptidebi...atalog/producty


The page is in Russian but if you are using Chrome you can translate it automatically.

This is the website of the guy who seemingly played a somewhat pivotal role in coming up with this stuff - it also contains links to some other (mostly Russian) sites where you can read more about the peptides.

http://khavinson.ru/


However there doesn't seem to be any information at all about these things that isn't from Russian sources, which is perhaps a little worrying, as is the fact that no-one anywhere else in the world seems to have attempted to replicate any of the research, to my knowledge.

As far as I could tell Epitalon itself is not actually contained in any of the products listed on the pages I previously mentioned - not sure why this is either, although I could probably speculate.

Anyway, I am really just interested in hearing anyone's thoughts about these chemicals, as well as experiences from anyone who has actually used them.

[hav]

Actually, Khavinson's "Institute" seems to be the manufacturer of all those peptide products. Here's their sales brochure:

http://www.khavinson...wnloads/ibg.pdf

Howard

Edited by hav, 27 January 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

Here is an article about them. This site anti aging systems both sells and markets them.
I take bio identical hormones and deprenyl but not peptide bio regulators .
http://www.antiaging...tide-revolution

[Andey]

I asked few russian/ukranian scientists about those Khavinson supplements. Answers was split between BS and maybe beneficial. One thing that everybody agreed is that Khavinson's institute patients dont show any significant signs of longevity improvements.
Even the man himself looks exactly for his age.

[Xenthide]

Howard / hav, is there any particular reason you edited your post there?? Seemed to me that the suspicion you were expressing was a perfectly reasonable one. Did you change your mind? If so, I would be interested in hearing why.

Anyway, there is one peptide I am interested in mainly, which is Normoftal (I think Visloten on that site, antiaging-systems), for it's effects on the retina. I have recently been diagnosed with a congenital retinopathy, Retinitis Pigmentosa, for which there is currently no generally approved or accepted treatment within mainstream medicine.

The studies on this particular peptide, if you can call them that, which are published on distinctly pro-Khavinson sites, do SEEM quite detailed and promising to my untrained and probably scientifically not-critical-enough eye, but of course I am quite aware that they are still suspiciously unreplicated anywhere else.

The prices at that site antiaging-systems.com are absolutely ridiculous, by the way. The peptides are sold out of Russia and Eastern Europe for a fraction of the price (although, granted, it can be hard to find a source willing to ship outside of these locations, I think I've found one though, fingers crossed).

It seems at the very least these peptides will be fairly harmless, in any case, so can't hurt to try them out the way I see it even if it might turn out to be a waste of time.

Edited by Xenthide, 30 January 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[hav]

No, not really. But my concerns do echo yours. That there's not much peer reviewed research on anything of his except Epithalon.

I haven't been able to come up with much of anything on the Normoftal peptide. Do you know the sequence by any chance? Here's a paper on one of the forms of Retinitis Pigmentosa if that's of any help:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24455364

Howard

[Xenthide]

I have managed to locate the following info regarding Normoftal - this is the sequence, right?

Composition: 100 μg of AKS-G amino acid peptide complex (lysine, glutamine acid).

Edited by Xenthide, 30 January 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[hav]

If its only got those 2 things in it, it might be the sequence lys-glu aka Lysylglutamic acid. There seems to be allot of published research by a bunch of folks including Khavinson. Looks like he calls it "Vilon" in some of his papers. But I don't see any mentioning eye, vision, or retina. Here's the Pubmed search:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ylglutamic acid

"Glutimine acid" might also be a misnomer for glutimine. But I couldn't find any research by anyone on lys-gln or gln-lys so thats probably not it.

Howard

Edited by hav, 30 January 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[hav]

Here are a few other related hits I stumbled across.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....d/12195242 ... re: Khlavinson finding epitalon helps treat Retinitis Pigmentosa in rats and humans.

We have studied the effect of tetrapeptide Epitalon (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly) on the course of congenital pigmented degeneration of the retina. The application of Epitalon in Campbell rats is found to intensify the bioelectric and functional activity of the retina due to the preservation of its morphological structure. Epitalon therapy in patients with degenerative retinal lesions results in a positive clinical effect in 90% of the cases. The analysis of Epitalon effects suggests that the tetrapeptide participates in the mechanisms of transcription common for the epiphysis and retina.

Odd that no one has verified the above claims if there's no other known treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm......./7577903 ... re: some obscure connection cited by Romanian researchers between lys-glu and pigmentary retinopathy probably losing something in translation:

Two clinical observations of pigmentary retinopathy associated with late congenital glaucoma are presented. This associations is rarely emphasized in the literature, the most frequent association being of the pigmentary retinopathy and open angle glaucoma. In the former observation a genetical filiation could not been established. In the latter the heredity was autosomal recessive, with two existent distinct pathological genes. The genetic defect in pigmentary retinopathy with dominant autosomal transmission is supposed to be localized on the codon 216 Ser-->Pro or at the level of the codon 296 by the substitution Lys-->Glu and Lys-->Met for the some determination, but done in vitro. In the recessive form the abnormal alleles are localized in the interval D11 5861 and D11 5899.

Howard

[normalizing]

is anyone going to try those peptides and report or not ? i dont see the point of keep sctratching our heads if they work not when you can get one and trial it.

[Xenthide]

I have now received my Normoftal, so I will be taking the full course recommended for retinopathies and I will report on the results.

The article previously mentioned (http://www.antiaging...tide-revolution) describes some of the alleged affects of this peptide on the retina.

This is also maybe a fairly good time to test out this peptide as I have an appointment for a spectrum of tests on the electrical function of my retinal cells in the near future, so when I have my next test probably about a year later I will be able to report on any obvious changes. That said, it is apparently not unusual for there to be periods of apparent stability and no degeneration, even with no treatment, so no further change would not necessarily be an indicator of any benefits of this peptide. Nonetheless if there is any obvious measurable or subjective improvement in my retinal function after this time then that would be something to take note of as to my knowledge there is no existing treatment know which can have this effect.

[normalizing]

any report ?

[BigKev]

Maybe I'm missing something but looking at the translation of the supplemental fact of the "normoftal" product, the only active ingredients I see are 'lysine' and 'glutamic acid', grouped into a blend called "peptide complex game-G". Assuming that by labeling regulations of Russia you also have order ingredients from high to low quantity, my guess is 100mg of lysine and 100mg of glutamic acid.

At that point the only other variables I see are the manufacturing/preparation ones: order of mixing, pressure, temperature, etc...

Could OP update us and also let us know if he has an english version of the label?

[R794136]

The peptides are sold out of Russia and Eastern Europe for a fraction of the price (although, granted, it can be hard to find a source willing to ship outside of these locations, I think I've found one though, fingers crossed).

It seems at the very least these peptides will be fairly harmless, in any case, so can't hurt to try them out the way I see it even if it might turn out to be a waste of time.

I have been advised to take about 12 different peptides of theirs. I am not trying to directly lengthen my life. I have a number of symptoms which are age related, such as Ed, sebhoric keratosis, BPH, insomnia, bone loss. I thought after reading the articles in Anti-aging systems Aging matters magazine, and watching the video on Khavinson's web site that peptides would help reverse these problems before they get much worse.

The cost of those peptides is about £1300. Did you find a cheaper source?

Robin

[normalizing]

its bullshit

[pure]

it is astounding that 40 years of research and 600+ published studies (in relation to peptide bioregulation)

in both Russian and Western publications/journals, can so easily be dismissed as "bullshit" by us laypeople,

like it was all just a big masterplan hatched 40 years ago by those devious Russians... a new type of Russian

Sleeper Agent laying in wait and sowing the seeds to now fleece us Westerners of all our money for products

which don't work.

 

not to mention the fact that Khavinson is currently President of the European Region of the International
Association of Gerotology and Geriatrics, information which is publicly available (as readily as looking in

Wikipedia), and therefore, you would think, he must have some credibility in the Western scientific community.?

 

but NO! despite all this, us laypeople know better cause we can see through their masterplan, despite the fact

99% of us probably don't possess half enough IQ to understand the science involved.

 

 

I think it's too early to make a judgement either way.

 

 

[serp777]

it is astounding that 40 years of research and 600+ published studies (in relation to peptide bioregulation)

in both Russian and Western publications/journals, can so easily be dismissed as "bullshit" by us laypeople,

like it was all just a big masterplan hatched 40 years ago by those devious Russians... a new type of Russian

Sleeper Agent laying in wait and sowing the seeds to now fleece us Westerners of all our money for products

which don't work.

 

not to mention the fact that Khavinson is currently President of the European Region of the International
Association of Gerotology and Geriatrics, information which is publicly available (as readily as looking in

Wikipedia), and therefore, you would think, he must have some credibility in the Western scientific community.?

 

but NO! despite all this, us laypeople know better cause we can see through their masterplan, despite the fact

99% of us probably don't possess half enough IQ to understand the science involved.

 

 

I think it's too early to make a judgement either way.

 

 

 

How many long term 10+ year studies have been done? What are the averse long term affects from taking a relatively untested drugs? Anti aging stuff could easily be carcinogenic 10-20 years down the line without proper evidence. There is a good reason to err on the saftey/caution side when fiddling with age related biochemistry, since that is also tied to cancer and other diseases.

[pure]

With the slightest bit of research, you will discover that Peptide Bioregulators have been

used in clinical practice in Russia for over 30 years.

 

Many of them:

Epithalon, Epithalamin, Thymogen, Thymalin, Retinalamin, Prostatilen, Cortexin, etc.,

are registered and sold as drugs in Russia, with apparently no reported side effects.

 

 

I don't think whether they work and their safety and possible side effects are in question.

 

I think the real question is one of administration route. All the above are administered by

injection, and the ones IAS are selling are in capsule form, though at least they are produced

by the St. Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontolgy who researched and developed

the original injectable ones.

 

The capsule versions are obviously an attempt to sell Peptide Bioregulators on a mass-scale

as supplements, instead of drugs, and overcome the consumer and regulatory hurdles

associated with injections/drugs.

 

 

I think the real question is, do Peptide Bioregulators in capsules work as well as the injectable

versions which have a long history of use?

 

Unfortunately, with IAS selling them at $80 for 20 capsules, it is unlikely many people will discover

the answer to this question.

 

 

[albedo]

I was watching http://khavinson.info/video. Quite impressive but I remain skeptic. Is there any new evidence of the effectiveness of these peptide products, side effects etc ..? Big Pharma looks interested: http://www.basel-lif...tics-forum.html

[Xenthide]

I had almost forgotten about this thread, my apologies to anyone who was expecting a report back sooner.

 

I did complete the entire course of capsules as stated - honestly I forget what this was now because it was a while ago but I think it was 2 capsules morning and evening for 2 months, 1 months break, then a second course of the same.

 

My yearly follow up appointment was actually pushed back a couple of months, so it must have been just under a year from when this course was completed.

 

I noticed no subjective difference either during or after treatment, and, following actual measurements, no clinically significant change in my condition one way or the other was detected. An electroretinography was not performed this time, but I was advised this would only be done if there was any detectable change visible from comparison of fundus photographs (high definition photographs of the interior structure of the eye), which I am quite satisfied with as it seems highly likely it would have been a waste of time.

 

As I mentioned earlier it is not unusual for the specific variant of my condition, Retinitis Pigmentosa, to remain stable for sometimes years at a time, and I have been living a healthy lifestyle and supplementing otherwise during this period.

 

Of course I am a sample size of one, but as the research into these peptides indicates quite clearly measurable improvements that would be visible on a fundus photograph, it seems clear that for me at least, the oral form at least of this particular peptide, Normoftal, is not effective, which was not unexpected.

 

While this self-experimentation is no substitute for an actual scientific study I would say it nonetheless suggests that the oral forms of these peptides are more likely not to be effective for the majority of the conditions they are marketed for.

 

 

One final thing, if anyone else is interested in trying these peptides for another condition (although I wouldn't personally advise it), I was able to obtain them much more cheaply than some other English language sites from here: http://www.magicnobilje.com/

 

This seems to be a Serbian pharmacy, and while the site is a little hard to navigate for those who don't speak the language and as far as I could tell, offers no international payment options, they were quite amicable in communication via email and with the help of Google translate I was able to arrange to pay via direct bank transfer - they sent the peptides with no issues, at a much much cheaper price than some of the ridiculous prices offered elsewhere.

 

If anyone has any questions I would be happy to answer them. I believe I do still have the packaging for Normoftal as well which I will dig around for if anyone is interested, but none of it is in English.

Edited by Xenthide, 09 August 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Why not!]

For all of us on the sidelines it is really helpful and informative when we receive meaningful information.. not like yours.

"My yearly follow up appointment was actually pushed back a couple of months, so it must have been just under a year from when this course was completed."

I also took an Asprin about a year ago but today I had a headache.

Therefore Aspirin does not work, right?

I'm pretty sure the effect of Aspirin, the Russian Bioregulators, Statins, and every pharmaceutical, does not last for a year, or even a month after stopping taking them.

And I haven't read anything about the Russian peptides having a permanent effect. If this was the claim then they would cost $10000 for one course because there would never be any repeat purchases needed.

And the peptide you mention,Normoftal, isn't even on IAS's website.

And you can't remember the exact course, it's a bit vague?

If you're gonna post then try and post meaningful worthwhile information, not meaningless garbage.

It's hard enough working out what is worth trying or not, let alone having to also filter through junk feedback.

Humans. Hopeless.

[Xenthide]

No need to be hostile. Yeah, my own self-experimentation is not a huge double blind placebo controlled study. I never intended it to be nor claimed anything to the contrary.

 

I started this thread thinking that I might be a good subject to test the reality of some of the unlikely sounding benefits these substances allegedly have, because I actually have one of the conditions which, allegedly, can be treated with one of these peptides despite being usually irreversible and not treatable by mainstream medicine. Because of this I thought I would be able to offer somewhat more objective commentary than someone taking it without intending to treat any specific condition.

 

If I can respond to a few of your points in turn also, it is my understanding that many of these peptides are supposed to have lasting benefits at least, even if not permanent. Without getting too technical, many of the conditions they supposedly treat are not associated with particularly rapid change either way, and it is really laughable that you would compare them to Aspirin when they have an entirely different mechanism of action to compounds with an immediate chemical effect on the body. This is presumably also why the recommended course of treatment for some of them is only 4 months in any 12 month period. This was the case for Normoftal, the one I was specifically interested in.

 

I am not sure if this applies to all of them or only some of them, but the information is no doubt out there. My sincere and heartfelt apologies if this is too vague for your liking. Really, my heart bleeds for you.

 

 

The dosage information is also available in the links I originally referenced when starting this thread - if you bothered to read the thread also you would have discovered that Normoftal is likely sold as "Visloten" elsewhere, probably also by the IAS, and for that matter, why should I even care what is and isn't on the IAS website, this isn't a thread solely about IAS, Normoftal is one of the "peptide bioregulators" I reference in the thread title, and I am choosing to share MY OWN EXPERIENCE to the best of my ability.

 

I find it a little baffling that my post incensed you so much that you decided to register just to tell me how wrong I am. Did it make a difference that I reported the compound in question to be likely ineffective, rather than reporting a positive result?

 

In case you didn't notice this forum is almost entirely built on people's vague anecdotal reports of self-experimentation with various substances of dubious actual benefit. Unlike most of the relatively harmless smart drugs and nootropics commonly discussed however, these particular compounds make some quite fantastical claims about the range of conditions they can treat, some of which can be quite debilitating, despite there being no evidence for the oral form even being active, and probably the overwhelming likelihood being to the contrary.

 

For this reason I think my own anecdote, that I found one of these compounds to be, most likely, entirely ineffective, was entirely worth posting given that many people in a more desperate situation than I may be looking into these entirely untested and sometimes quite expensive substances.

[albedo]

This is an interesting read from the blog of John Mitteldorf:

http://joshmitteldor...t-on-longevity/

Which sort of testing (say blood test) do we have to really assess if supplementing with this stuff is worth the expense? I did not read Prof. Anisimov's but maybe you have being thinking about the same and found some answer. As with many other supplements we might be taking, which is the evidence of positive effects and safety on healthy humans?

 

Edited by albedo, 25 August 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[mikey]

I had almost forgotten about this thread, my apologies to anyone who was expecting a report back sooner.

 

I did complete the entire course of capsules as stated - honestly I forget what this was now because it was a while ago but I think it was 2 capsules morning and evening for 2 months, 1 months break, then a second course of the same.

 

My yearly follow up appointment was actually pushed back a couple of months, so it must have been just under a year from when this course was completed.

 

I noticed no subjective difference either during or after treatment, and, following actual measurements, no clinically significant change in my condition one way or the other was detected. An electroretinography was not performed this time, but I was advised this would only be done if there was any detectable change visible from comparison of fundus photographs (high definition photographs of the interior structure of the eye), which I am quite satisfied with as it seems highly likely it would have been a waste of time.

 

As I mentioned earlier it is not unusual for the specific variant of my condition, Retinitis Pigmentosa, to remain stable for sometimes years at a time, and I have been living a healthy lifestyle and supplementing otherwise during this period.

 

Of course I am a sample size of one, but as the research into these peptides indicates quite clearly measurable improvements that would be visible on a fundus photograph, it seems clear that for me at least, the oral form at least of this particular peptide, Normoftal, is not effective, which was not unexpected.

 

While this self-experimentation is no substitute for an actual scientific study I would say it nonetheless suggests that the oral forms of these peptides are more likely not to be effective for the majority of the conditions they are marketed for.

 

 

One final thing, if anyone else is interested in trying these peptides for another condition (although I wouldn't personally advise it), I was able to obtain them much more cheaply than some other English language sites from here: http://www.magicnobilje.com/

 

This seems to be a Serbian pharmacy, and while the site is a little hard to navigate for those who don't speak the language and as far as I could tell, offers no international payment options, they were quite amicable in communication via email and with the help of Google translate I was able to arrange to pay via direct bank transfer - they sent the peptides with no issues, at a much much cheaper price than some of the ridiculous prices offered elsewhere.

 

If anyone has any questions I would be happy to answer them. I believe I do still have the packaging for Normoftal as well which I will dig around for if anyone is interested, but none of it is in English.

 

 

I went on www.magicnoblje.com and put Normoftal in the search box, but nothing came up. Do you have the direct page URL for that peptide?

 

I've use epitalon and thymalin and I have no question that they rendered some deep facial wrinkles much less so, to the point that I think with further use they will completely melt away. It's amazing - as good as Howard said, when he first reported his own improvements in skin texture, etc...

[mikey]

I had almost forgotten about this thread, my apologies to anyone who was expecting a report back sooner.

 

I did complete the entire course of capsules as stated - honestly I forget what this was now because it was a while ago but I think it was 2 capsules morning and evening for 2 months, 1 months break, then a second course of the same.

 

My yearly follow up appointment was actually pushed back a couple of months, so it must have been just under a year from when this course was completed.

 

I noticed no subjective difference either during or after treatment, and, following actual measurements, no clinically significant change in my condition one way or the other was detected. An electroretinography was not performed this time, but I was advised this would only be done if there was any detectable change visible from comparison of fundus photographs (high definition photographs of the interior structure of the eye), which I am quite satisfied with as it seems highly likely it would have been a waste of time.

 

As I mentioned earlier it is not unusual for the specific variant of my condition, Retinitis Pigmentosa, to remain stable for sometimes years at a time, and I have been living a healthy lifestyle and supplementing otherwise during this period.

 

Of course I am a sample size of one, but as the research into these peptides indicates quite clearly measurable improvements that would be visible on a fundus photograph, it seems clear that for me at least, the oral form at least of this particular peptide, Normoftal, is not effective, which was not unexpected.

 

While this self-experimentation is no substitute for an actual scientific study I would say it nonetheless suggests that the oral forms of these peptides are more likely not to be effective for the majority of the conditions they are marketed for.

 

 

One final thing, if anyone else is interested in trying these peptides for another condition (although I wouldn't personally advise it), I was able to obtain them much more cheaply than some other English language sites from here: http://www.magicnobilje.com/

 

This seems to be a Serbian pharmacy, and while the site is a little hard to navigate for those who don't speak the language and as far as I could tell, offers no international payment options, they were quite amicable in communication via email and with the help of Google translate I was able to arrange to pay via direct bank transfer - they sent the peptides with no issues, at a much much cheaper price than some of the ridiculous prices offered elsewhere.

 

If anyone has any questions I would be happy to answer them. I believe I do still have the packaging for Normoftal as well which I will dig around for if anyone is interested, but none of it is in English.

 

 

I couldn't locate any of the peptides on  http://www.magicnobilje.com/

Do you a direct link to a page?

Thank you.

[Xenthide]

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner, I haven't been on this forum so much recently.

 

I had a look around and I don't think they have any peptides listed on the main site any more. I'm not sure why this is, or whether that means they have stopped selling them entirely. It could be worth sending them an email though, as I mentioned I found the staff to be quite amicable and helpful despite the obvious difficulties with using Google translate to communicate.

 

I would try to use the Russian names for whatever peptides you are interested in when asking rather than the IAS names though, I would just hazard a guess that this might make it more likely they will know what compound you are referring to. I don't know if the names listed on the IAS site are just alternative translations or whether they just made them up themselves.

 

If you have no luck with that, it might be worth trying to contact one of the Russian vendors directly - I have not done this myself but a couple sites you could try resulting from a quick Google:

 

http://www.peptid-online.ru/

http://e-apoteka.rs/

 

 

I don't know how willing they will be likely to ship outside Russia, I do see on one of those sites it mentions that these bioregulator compounds are currently only available in Russia and Serbia. The site I originally mentioned was some kind of Serbian health shop or alternative pharmacy, I don't know if they were strictly allowed to ship internationally but I would hazard a guess again that they may have been a little more easygoing about shipping to another country within Europe (or, hopefully, the US also). I'm not sure what Russian customs or laws regarding the export of these compounds are like but it can't hurt to enquire.

 

The prices the IAS are charging are really extortionate I think, even bordering on immoral and not justifiable at all.

 

I hope you find these suggestions of some use anyway!

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is your interest in these peptides? Are you hoping to treat a specific condition or is your interest more general? I would also be curious to hear how you get on sourcing them regardless. Feel free to PM me of course if you don't want to reveal any such information publicly for any reason.

[112358134]

There are many resellers of these peptide drugs in Russia but strangely few reports or anecdotes. So, I would be quite sceptical.

[oxanaweb]

My recommendation is "Vitapept" from company Previtalica. Super Peptide Bioregulator 'Made in Germany'. Revitalization of thyroid functions.

[oxanaweb]

Peptide bioregulators are effective. I confirm that. Very good are komlex peptide bioregulators 'Made in Germany'. Here:
http://previtalica.com/index_en.html

[John2009]

I am considering tying one or two of these peptides, but I have had some thoughts that if the peptides are instructing DNA and cells, could they cause a mutation or cancer ? Does anyone have expertise in this area to answer How likely that might be ?

 

The other concern I have is whether Prions and Mad Cow disease could be a problem with any of the peptides that are made from brain or nervous system tissue of the Cows? Is there a biological reason they use bovine sources, or is that just what is most readily available and cost effective ? Does it matter what animal the peptides are created and/or extracted from  ?