8 replies to this topic

[imusorka]

After much research, I have ended up here. Judging by some of the old threads on the topic, this forum seems to have the most knowledgeable members. I would be most grateful on your insight given the latest formula changes in many products on the market. So far, I have a shortlist of two.

• AOR Ortho-Core but presence of acetylcysteine is odd, to say the least
  
• Now Foods ADAM but amounts are lower and B12 is probably mostly cyanocobalamin

[Dorian Grey]

Avoiding the multi's with minerals should be a key factor in any decision regarding a "one and done" multi.

Iron and copper are two minerals that are always best obtained from dietary sources and most all the "complete" multi's include these minerals.

Men don't need extra iron at all and the form of copper supplied in supplements is quite often more toxic than helpful. If you've got copper water pipes, you're already getting too much copper if you're drinking from the tap. Filters will remove some, but not all of this.

in looking at multivitamins without minerals, it's generally best to seek a lower dose formula and take it twice a day rather than attempting to megadose once a day. Many vitamins are only absorbed at around a milligram at a time no matter how big the dose, and many are depleted to less than optimal levels within 24 hours.

Edited by synesthesia, 13 February 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[username]

Manganese is one of the biggest downsides of multis. Even low amounts of manganese (the RDA) can be a problem.
The multis look good, but the disadvantage of the minerals, e.g. copper, iron, manganese might outweigh the benefits you get from it.
There is a reason why multis show conflicting results in studies. They are simply not optimal.

[garcia]

I agree with synesthesia and longschi. Minerals are definitely key. E.g. I try and minimize the amount of iron and calcium I get from supplements.

[imusorka]

Thank you for the replies. What would be the optimal choice then? I have seen products without iron but not sure about the maximum doses of copper, calcium, and manganese. Any suggestions? I wish my diet provided enough vitamins and minerals on its own but it just does not. Some people supplement with only those elements that are deficient. Is this the way to go despite its inconvenience?

Many vitamins are only absorbed at around a milligram at a time no matter how big the dose, and many are depleted to less than optimal levels within 24 hours.

This basically renders all products (even Centrum) over-the-top. Do you have any references to support this?

[imusorka]

New shortlist. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

• Wellness Resources Daily Energy Multiple Vitamin - anything wrong with the formula at all?
• Gaspari Nutrition Anavite - too much calcium? does the tablet form reduce bioavailability?
• Controlled Labs Orange Triad - same concerns as number 2

[username]

I wouldn't take a multi at all. It's just so unpredictable. Targeted experimentation allows you to leave out something when you suspect it to have a negative impact. You won't be able to do that with a multi. It's expensive, but gives you more control.
If I took one of those multis, I wouldn't take the recommended dose (e.g. 3 pills), but possibly only 1 pill just to be sure. It's a lot cheaper as well.

Vitamin A should probably not be supplemented. Same goes for manganese and for iron for men in most cases. I'd advise to take a look at perfectheathdiet.com
I don't agree with all of it, e.g. he advises people to take copper. But no matter what the Jaminets recommend, they always back it up with something to make you think. Their website and their book are worth taking a look at.

I can't really give you good advice on a multi because I have no clue what its effects might be. Nobody does. When you have a single substance, it's a lot easier to predict what's going to happen.

[imusorka]

What particular vitamins/minerals should I supplement with if I exercise four times a week (non-professionally)? Elsewhere I saw people mentioning B-complex, C, D, K, iodine, magnesium and zinc. Does this cover the needs of an average person on a decent yet not perfect diet?

[timar]

You want a multivitamin that has moderate doses of antioxidants (specifically, vitamins C, E and beta-carotene), because high doses have been shown to hamper exercise effects and possibly even to increase all-cause mortality risk. On the other hand, low to moderate doses as part of a multivitamin formula have shown beneficial effects. I think it makes sense to have B vitamins included in doses one order of magnitude above the RDA, e.g. 10-50 mg (except for folic acid, which should be included as folate at the RDA level and for B12 where the dose ideally should be two orders of magnititude above the RDA: 100-500 mcg) because of their very low toxicity and potential benefits in compensating for mutations in a large number of different enzymes - think of them as metabolic grease. If you have a pristine enzymatic engine you are fine with the amount of B vitamins you get from dietary sources but as soon as there is some abrasion, it may help to put some additional grease into the system. Moreover, the multivitamin should contain a meaningful amount of vitamin D (at least 1000 IU) and zinc (15 mg). A decent amount of magnesium (200-400 mg) would be nice, but probably increase the pill count, so I prefer just to take some magnesium seperately. As it has already been pointed out, it should not contain any iron and at least not exceed the RDA of copper or manganese (1 and 2 mg, respectively). Selenium should be included in an organic form and be accompanied by chromium to compensate for possible effects on blood sugar. Vitamin E should be no more than 100 IU and include some mixed tocopherols, vitamin A no more than 5000 IU, at least 50% from beta-carotene. There should be low doses (1-5 mg) of mixed carotenoids included as well (lutein, lycopene, etc.) because beta-carotene alone competitively inhibits the absorption of other carotenoids.

The multivitamin which I take qualifies for all those requirements: LEF's Two-per-Day. It is inexpensive, well formulated and provides high quality forms of micronutrients. Like most LEF supplements it is overdosed, though. So just ignore the name and take only one per day, like I do. Makes it even more a bargain and an overall very reasonably dosed multivitamin (the 1 mg of manganese being the only minor quibble).

Edited by timar, 17 February 2014 - 10:04 PM.