2266 replies to this topic

[PerfectSeek]

After taking niagen for several months, the only thing I seem to notice is that I get quite fatigued when stopping it for a few days.  Perhaps I just don't notice the increased energy while I'm on it, but definitely feels like some homeostatic mechanism is downregulated while taking niagen that takes some time to normalize after stopping it.

 

The Sinclair study said something about only 1 week returning mice to "youthful" levels, so I'm going to try some short term cycling (4 days on, 3 days off or so) to see how that effects things.  We are still lacking good data that Niagen supplementation will increase NAD+ over the long term.  

Edited by PerfectSeek, 23 July 2015 - 11:46 AM.

[midas]

After taking niagen for several months, the only thing I seem to notice is that I get quite fatigued when stopping it for a few days.  Perhaps I just don't notice the increased energy while I'm on it, but definitely feels like some homeostatic mechanism is downregulated while taking niagen that takes some time to normalize after stopping it.

 

The Sinclair study said something about only 1 week returning mice to "youthful" levels, so I'm going to try some short term cycling (4 days on, 3 days off or so) to see how that effects things.  We are still lacking good data that Niagen supplementation will increase NAD+ over the long term.  

 

People need to keep in mind that the Sinclair study was on NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) and not NR (nicotinamide riboside)..

Far to many companies marketing NR (Niagen) refer to that study to hoodwink people into buying Niagan....Be aware, they are different compounds.
 

[MikeGreo]

 Are we wasting our money on these supplements? Most supplements like LEF, or HPN have around 100mg/125mg of NAD+ per capsule. I read that we need to be taking at 1000mg per day. Is it useless if we are only taking 100mg/day?

 

Do you think the prices will get cheaper any time soon, and is there anywhere I can buy of high quality NAD+ in powder form?

Edited by MikeGreo, 02 August 2015 - 08:34 PM.

[midas]

 I read that we need to be taking at 1000mg per day. Is it useless if we are only taking 100mg/day?

 

 

 

Where did you read that?..........

 

Another way of looking at it is, if NR is a good thing, then 125mg or 250mg is better than nothing.
 

[BigLabRat]

 Are we wasting our money on these supplements? Most supplements like LEF, or HPN have around 100mg/125mg of NAD+ per capsule. I read that we need to be taking at 1000mg per day. Is it useless if we are only taking 100mg/day?

 

Do you think the prices will get cheaper any time soon, and is there anywhere I can buy of high quality NAD+ in powder form?

 

Are you talking about NR/Niagen, or about NAD? Yes, the point of NR is to get the body to make NAD, but they aren't the same thing. NR weighs 255 g/mol; NAD is 663 g/mol.

 

There are a lot of questions about whether ingesting NAD/NADH does anything beneficial, and whether or not it survives digestion...and if it does survive digestion, whether it is absorbed by cells...

 

I personally doubt that swallowing NAD/NADH does much good. Look at it this way: meat has a ton of NAD/NADH in it. But I don't see mention of extraordinary anti-aging effects from eating meat.

 

NR is expensive, but it isn't the only NAD precursor. Niacin and Nicotinamide are both precursors too, and they are cheap as dirt. In some kinds of tissues, Niacin outperforms NR in producing NAD.

[BigLabRat]

In the post above, someone has ranked my statements as "ill-informed."

 

To whoever applied that ranking: Don't you owe it to everyone on this forum to point out how I am ill-informed? I can provide references and documentation for every statement I made there.

[midas]

In the post above, someone has ranked my statements as "ill-informed."

 

To whoever applied that ranking: Don't you owe it to everyone on this forum to point out how I am ill-informed? I can provide references and documentation for every statement I made there.

 

 

Seems that was me!............I must have done it by mistake whilst flipping between two or three different pages...

 

I do apologize   

[BigLabRat]

Whew! I thought I'd said something controversial!

[albedo]

I have been using 100 mg for 3 months just before my full blood tests. While not feeling anything in particular I also have not remarked something special on my biomarkers. Due to past experience with niacin I was curious if my homocysteine was rising. I also looked at liver enzymes, fasting glucose, A1C, cholesterol.

 

Do you know something in particular I could monitor in my blood test while using niacin and possibly increase the dose (considering switching to 300 mg)? Anything published?

[The_Next_LX]

I have been taking 1000 mg daily of HPN's Nr for a year (2 bottles per month, I've been doing the LongeCity group buy since Oct/November 2014)

There have been various subjective changes I might think be resulting from the Nr, but there is one objective observable thing I can definitely point to (literally)--

The age spots on the back of my hands have been reduced by (at least) 2/3. Yes, I have some still, but the backs of my hands are now pretty clear. I am 61 years old. (Hence my screen name.) By the way, foolishly or not, I have not been using sunscreen over the last year. Too lazy to do it.

I have to say, it's nice that the backs of my hands are clean--but I'm thinking that there must be less visible, internal changes that are helpful--Rustoleum for the body??

I'm glad I found the LongeCity forums a year ago, and learned about Nr--

[albedo]

Thank you The Next LX. It is a interesting result and I have seen it posted elsewhere too. I will check mine too. I am 60!

 

Errata: in my last post, 2nd para, I meant NR not niacin. 

[stefan_001]

Hello,
New to the forum. Using NR + pterostilbene at the same time twice / day since mid April.

One effect I have noticed (among others) but I have not seen mentioned here is that there is some difference in the way my nerve system functions. I can better flex my muscles, the grip in my hands has also become stronger. If I want to sqeeuze hard they react better. Another odd thing is that the shower water feels more hot. I always take very hot showers but the water has started to feel too not even though it's on the same temperature.

Stefan

45 year old male

[Phoenicis]

I have been taking 1000 mg daily of HPN's Nr for a year (2 bottles per month, I've been doing the LongeCity group buy since Oct/November 2014)

There have been various subjective changes I might think be resulting from the Nr, but there is one objective observable thing I can definitely point to (literally)--

The age spots on the back of my hands have been reduced by (at least) 2/3. Yes, I have some still, but the backs of my hands are now pretty clear. I am 61 years old. (Hence my screen name.) By the way, foolishly or not, I have not been using sunscreen over the last year. Too lazy to do it.

I have to say, it's nice that the backs of my hands are clean--but I'm thinking that there must be less visible, internal changes that are helpful--Rustoleum for the body??

I'm glad I found the LongeCity forums a year ago, and learned about Nr--

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't each capsule 125mg NR (250mg / serving of 2 capsules)? If so that would require taking 8 capsules a day to reach the 1000mg dose; so would that not mean that each bottle only lasts for about a week (60 capsules/bottle)?

 

How could 2 bottles last you a whole month? Perhaps you thought that each capsule was 250mg? If so wouldn't you really be taking 500mg/day?

 

Glad to hear you're seeing results!

Edited by Phoenicis, 16 August 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[The_Next_LX]

 

I have been taking 1000 mg daily of HPN's Nr for a year (2 bottles per month, I've been doing the LongeCity group buy since Oct/November 2014)

There have been various subjective changes I might think be resulting from the Nr, but there is one objective observable thing I can definitely point to (literally)--

The age spots on the back of my hands have been reduced by (at least) 2/3. Yes, I have some still, but the backs of my hands are now pretty clear. I am 61 years old. (Hence my screen name.) By the way, foolishly or not, I have not been using sunscreen over the last year. Too lazy to do it.

I have to say, it's nice that the backs of my hands are clean--but I'm thinking that there must be less visible, internal changes that are helpful--Rustoleum for the body??

I'm glad I found the LongeCity forums a year ago, and learned about Nr--

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't each capsule 125mg NR (250mg / serving of 2 capsules)? If so that would require taking 8 capsules a day to reach the 1000mg dose; so would that not mean that each bottle only lasts for about a week (60 capsules/bottle)?

 

How could 2 bottles last you a whole month? Perhaps you thought that each capsule was 250mg? If so wouldn't you really be taking 500mg/day?

 

Glad to hear you're seeing results!

 

 

 

Innumeracy

 

adjective

1.

unfamiliar with mathematical concepts and methods; unable to use mathematics; not

numerate.

 

Oops! Found out!

 

Seriously: 9 years and 4 months ago, three days before my 52nd birthday, I had a major stroke. All my fingers and toes worked, but as my brain lesion was roughly just above my left ear, I had APHASIA. My speech was argle bargle. I couldn't read (but weirdly, I could write). My hearing comprehension was nil. Basic arithmetic was gone. I couldn't make change from a dollar, and couldn't figure out the difference between 3 cents, 3 dollars, or 300 dollars.

 

Interestingly, my RIGHT lobe was fine. I could figure out fractions by visualizing a pie. (What does two thirds of a pie look like? Easy!) Division? Half a pie! Multiplication? Two pies!

 

But 9 years (and a LOT of speech/comprehension therapy) later, I still trip up. SO:

 

I have been ASSUMING and I've been SAYING 1000 mg per day, but you are correct, I am taking FOUR capsules in the morning on an empty stomach, 2 bottles a month, or 500 mg per day. (In the end of 2014 I DID try four in the morning, four at night, so that WAS 1000 mg a day, but it made me antsy, so I went back to four.) 

 

I DID know, somehow, that it was 125 mg per capsule; I certainly knew I was taking 4 capsules daily. But, somehow, I was taking 1000 mg per day, because. Oops. My left lobe COMPENSATES, but it is still damaged. The brain is amazingly plastic, after a LOT of therapy (and a lot of time) I got re-wired. But certain cells were fried, and they are not coming back. Oh well.

 

HOWEVER, my right (undamaged, 3-D thinking) lobe can tell you this--at least two thirds of the age spots on the backs of my hands faded--and the skin looks smoother, less wrinkly too. (Just don't ask me to count them!)

 

And, by the way, thanks for putting me straight! Who knows how long I would have been thinking and saying "1000" when it was really 500.

 

!

[Phoenicis]

Didn't mean to come across as unfriendly. The dose of NR in those products is an issue.

I'm not qualified to in any way advise you on medical issues, but will share some research. I've seen recent papers endorsing combinations of different nad+ precursors. Nicotinamide seems to be extensively studied for traumatic brain injury and stroke models. Goes very well with ampk activators because the latter upregulate NAMPT. If you want to research this be sure to check out the study bellow:

Haar, C. et al. (2013). The use of nicotinamide as a treatment for experimental traumatic brain injury and stroke: a review and evaluation. Clinic Pharmacol Biopharmaceut S, 1, 2.

http://omicsgroup.or...065X.S1-005.pdf

[ironfistx]

Do people here still take it under the tongue since I heard some people mention they were doing that earlier.

[APBT]

 

does Resveratrol or Pterostilbene synergize better with Niagen?  

 

Noone knows.

 

I would use both.

 

 

I am filming Lenny Guarente tomorrow up at MIT;  I will ask him

 

to age or not to age, did you get an answer?  Any other tidbits you can share?

Edited by APBT, 17 August 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[Gerrans]

I have been taking 1000 mg daily of HPN's Nr for a year (2 bottles per month, I've been doing the LongeCity group buy since Oct/November 2014)

There have been various subjective changes I might think be resulting from the Nr, but there is one objective observable thing I can definitely point to (literally)--

The age spots on the back of my hands have been reduced by (at least) 2/3. Yes, I have some still, but the backs of my hands are now pretty clear. I am 61 years old. (Hence my screen name.) By the way, foolishly or not, I have not been using sunscreen over the last year. Too lazy to do it.

I have to say, it's nice that the backs of my hands are clean--but I'm thinking that there must be less visible, internal changes that are helpful--Rustoleum for the body??

I'm glad I found the LongeCity forums a year ago, and learned about Nr--

 

Nicotinamide has been associated with protection against sun damage, not just topically but orally. (Yiasemides et al, 2009). Whether normal nicotinamide, as opposed to NR, would actually fade age spots, I do not know. But my age spots have been fading now for three or four years, ever since I started taking one Swanson's niacinamide a day. Could be a coincidence, because I take other things as well. Whatever it is, I am thrilled.

[Alex_G]

Do people here still take it under the tongue since I heard some people mention they were doing that earlier.

 

I do, I take 250 mg under my tongue in the morning.

I don't know if it makes a difference or not.

 

Also, I don't feel anything different that without taking NR. Maybe I would if I took more, maybe its my age (41).

 

I am going to take a higher dose in the near future to see if there any any effects. 

[stefan_001]

I was reading the thread and was wondering whether anybody has noticed any positive effects on typical aging topics like hair thinning, retreating hairline. Anybody seen re growth? If not any theories why there may not be an effect to that?

[Ms02138]

I'm still taking my 1500/day sublingually. I d.k. if that helps. In answer tho the post about "what the theory would be," her's a little Wikipedia excerpt about sublingual administration:  "Almost any form of substance may be amenable to sublingual administration if it dissolves easily in saliva. Powders and aerosols may all take advantage of this method. However, a number of factors, such as pH, molecular weight, and lipid solubility, may determine whether the route is practical. Based on these properties, a suitably soluble drug may diffuse too slowly through the mucosa to be effective."

I think it's not dissolving completely under my tongue; it feels like some of it stays gritty and is eventually getting swallowed--but maybe that's just their filler.

Besides, that caveat about all the factors that may limit subllngual absorption, one's not getting any advantage unless the substance will be diminished by either stomach acid or 1st-pass liver metabolism. We know NR isn't totally broken down by either of these as it was orally administered in some of the mice studies that got results, but whether it 1) can be partially broken down and we're getting a lager dose therefore and 2) that it does indeed absorb sublingually, only a good pharmacologist could tell us-any got the chops? 

I'm 61. I've been taking it 9 months. The only change I'm sure of is my skin is much more moist--before it was much dryer. But my gray hair (only about 5% anyway) hasn't diminished nor have the age spots which are only on my right hand (assume it's been in the sun more) disappeared. They may be fading slightly or I may be imagining it. When  started, I thought things looked a bit brighter and sharper and that I had a bit more energy. But that seemed in the placebo range of effect and if it was real, I've gotten used to it and don't notice now.

I plan to keep doing the sublingual route--nothing to lose but a bit of time--unless I hear definitively that it makes no difference.

[ilanso]

I got 6 bottles in March (group buy) and finished them in 90 days (vs the 180 recommended) by taking 2 capsules twice a day. No subjective effect (@ the gym or elsewhere) whatsoever. I wish it were placebo instead :-)

[stefan_001]

On the improved vision. I read on the thread some people see an improvement that falls off again or see no imprvement at all. I have tried to keep track of how my eyes function. Before I started with NR+Ptero I had quite some glare and challenges with near sight. The glare dropped off and near sight improved after starting to take. But I also noticed the intermittent effect. Lately the eyes have stayed "on" fairly well but they are irritated and I can see red veins. My perception is that the NR has in that sense "fixed" my eyes that they can work harder and I see good again but that the underlying issue has not been solved. I read that when you get older the lens stiffens so could it be that the NR gives the eyes more energy to overcome the lens stiffening problem but they need to work very hard hence the irritation and redness. It could also mean that if the lens is too stiff not even the NR will help and you notice no difference. Anybody thoughts around this?

[ceridwen]

Sounds like you should consider plastic lenses which should give you 20/20 vision

[stefan_001]

That is likely what I should do, but I am still resisting :-)

 

I was also wondering would the lens stiffening be caused by the same issues as cataracts. The lens stiffness comes from thickening of the lens as proteins somewhat get messed up with age. Cataracts dissapear with Lanosterol drops according a recent study clearing the protein glut. Curious whether Lanosterol supplementation wold also adress lens stiffening. Is there a way to boost Lanosterol in the blood or would eye drops be the only way?

Edited by stefan_001, 08 September 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[ironfistx]

My niagen bottle was left in my car in california and the bottle kind of dented.  One of my swanson bottles did, too.  The rest look regular.

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[newgenduder]

I believe that the foot pain/inflammation symptoms may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511 ; and it is well known that histamine increases inflammation. 

 

My most memorable personal experience with NAD+ came from the Now Foods supplement before it was discontinued -- supplementation with this greatly reduced my histamine symptoms (hives, hot flashes, food intolerance). The Now Food Supplement had only 4mg of nicotinamide http://www.iherb.com...60-Lozenges/711 see back of bottle pic/zoom

Niagen is in fact all nicotinamide, much more than 4mg presumably - in fact I have taken one pill of Niagen, and I experienced skin itching, a symptom I get when my histamine is increased (my histamine levels are very high, so I'm a good test for what increases histamine and what doesn't) , I can say for sure that Niagen does increase histamine. 

So, all in all - markedly different experiences for me on Now Foods NAD versus Niagen. I can't lie, I wish we would experiment supplementing with straight NAD, maybe from an Alibaba overseas supplier or whatever the source may be. 

 

NAD is actually supposed to lower histamine, by way of the Dihydrofolate Reductase - which reduces ingested folic acid into active folate (Tetrahydrofolate/THF) https://en.wikipedia...olate_reductase . THF is the ultimate reduced form of folate, whether it be from folic acid or methylfolate. THF methylates histidine (therefor reducing histamine, by reducing the amount of histidine that turns into histamine)

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=3R0Yeu79jfQC&lpg=PA348&ots=hPh_6YywVY&dq=thf%20histidine&pg=PA348#v=onepage&q=thf%20histidine&f=false

" The final step in histidine catabolism requires THF) " 

 

 

And that is how NAD reduced my histamine, and very obviously my histamine symptoms. More so than any other supplement has, by far actually. 

 

 

I believe NAD will be critical in my recovery from histamine overload.

Edited by newgenduder, 02 October 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[newgenduder]

I should specify that the way NAD influences the Dihydrofolate Reductase is by being the electron donor, and limiting factor(i believe).

I would just edit my above post but it's not letting me at the moment. my bad. 

[ironfistx]

With this supplement are we going to have lower levels after we stop taking it than before we started?

[resveratrol_guy]

Just a quick anecdote for the record. As I reported here, I had never taken NR until this week. I took one 100 mg per day for 2 days, just as a sort of safety check (LEF brand) because I was planning to use it to mitigate CT scan damage. I didn't really notice anything. On the day of the CT itself, I took 500 mg before and after, for a total of 1 g on that day. The result seems to have been alertness to the point of pain, which only subsided with choline ingestion. I might be misinterpreting the event, but it was unprecedented in my memory, so I thought to report it.