28 replies to this topic

[Jerebaldo10]

Hi fellas,

 

After purchasing what I thought was Adrafinil from 2 different US resellers other than the discredited Cerebral Health, I've come to realize that it's scam bait all around.

1 sent me what I believe is heavily fillered Noopept, and the other sent me some vitamin B analogue...likely cut sulbutiamine to provide the sulfuric urine for effect; 'tastes just like it, except mixed with starch filler. I suppose

I was late to the party since it was dropped by Cephalon, and now all that remains is counterfeit. The B analogue seller is even supposed to have their own lab (though likely

only for testing safety, not proper identification). Dissapointing, I'll just get a damn Rx and hope insurance covers generic modafinil off-label..

[BigJohn]

Are you sure about this? They seem to put COAs out there by third parties on most websites that sell adrafinil

[ZHMike]

Did you try smart drugs for thought? I think theres is legit and they are well respected in this forum.. what vendors are you referring too?

[ron45]

Do they sell in bulk? [ SDFT?]

 

Ron

[Introspecta]

I bought some from Newstar and it was def legit as took it at 10am and couldn't fall asleep until 2 am. Newstar has had top quality in my experience

[MercuryAX]

I bought some from Newstar and it was def legit as took it at 10am and couldn't fall asleep until 2 am. Newstar has had top quality in my experience

What was your dosage?  Did you use their included scoop?

[Introspecta]

My scale broke so my dose was anywhere from 300-600mgs I assume. I filled an 00 capsule about halfway. Adrafinil powder is heavier than say phenylpiracetam so the scoops arn't accurate. Plus I'm not even sure how much they claim a scoop holds.

 

Where did you buy your Adrafinil from. OP? Why say theres no legitimate Adrafinil sold in US but not list the places you got them from. Its legal so I don't think you have to worry about posting sources its done all the time.

Edited by Introspecta, 21 April 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Jerebaldo10]

I'm glad at least that one of the vendors I purchased from so far was willing to refund me without any trouble; this one being Peak Nootropics..their's is the one that is vaguely bitter and not at all sulfuric in taste, smell, or urine expelled metabolites. By effect I'd say its a latter generation racetam, peptide family noot, or else CRL-40,941....in other words, a wild guess other than doubt that it's the real thing. Kal, the owner, assures me that it's the real thing, but....Adra is sulfuric, there's no getting around that basic property. And it's true that sourcing Adra these days is going to be limited given that moda has all but replaced it for medical use globally, so US resellers are at the mercy of Chinese to-order bulk pharma manufacturers.

 

The other, Nootropics Depot, I haven't yet asked a refund for because I want to be as sure as I can that it's a thiamine derivative before asking for one. I'm corroborating effects and properties with Ceretropic's Adrafinil. I know that Cere and ND\Parmatrix are both based out of Phoenix, so hopefully they get the materials from more than a single source. Oh, and to boot I've got a 1st-month-free Rx of armodafinil coming to my preferred pharmacy tomorrow...this will be mostly useful as a discriminative tool since all insurances will balk at paying a dime for even generic moda unless you're a documented shift worker.

 

Thanks for the lead on Newstar, although they are also within the 'Arizona axis' of Noot vendors, the vendors are so willing to accept refunds for a trial purchase of this or that we can feel comfortable exploring.

 

I suppose that if the premise of this post is correct, which I'm hoping it is not, then at least I've rediscovered the moderate usefulness of sulbutiamine for augmenting caffeine...though not at $20\5grams ;-).

[ZHMike]

Hey Ron, I dont think SDFT does bulk. I'm actually just stacking my adrafinil with ciltep and having a great effect, I can lower my adrafinil to about 300 mg daily, I was at the 600-900 mg range. So far its great, I hope I dont need to cycle the Ciltep, I hear reports going both ways on to cycle or not. 

 

 

[chemicalambrosia]

Sulbutiamine is one of the most horrid tasting things on earth, and with even a small trace of it in a powder it would be hard to mistake it for something with a fairly mild flavor like adrafinil. I really think you are making silly and unfounded speculations. Nootropics Depot is definitely one of the more legitimate suppliers out there. Have you considered that you might have dosed too low or just aren't much of a responder to adrafinil? There are plenty of reports of people taking prescription, brand name modafinil(PROVIGIL) and being underwhelmed with the results, while other people rant and rave about how good it is. There is apparently a gene that shows whether you are a non-responder or no, here is a reddit thread about thatt: http://www.reddit.co..._medium=twitter

Edited by chemicalambrosia, 22 April 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Jerebaldo10]

I actually do not mind the taste of sulbutiamine, strong as it is. You're saying that adrafinil is mild by comparison...I'll keep that in mind. Of course I was rather deflated and bitter when I wrote the OP, so let me change it so it isn't inflammatory. I wouldn't be surprised if I had rs4680(A;A), from what studies SNPedia links describe...I am all those characteristics in spades. I took a gram of the ND product and didn't notice more than a bit more body-centric caffeine like jitteriness without any additional alertness...actually sulbutiamine has tended to be more awakening for me at 500mg, which would make sense given its D1 antagonism in the pfc. Well anyway, I'll let you know how the armodafinil feels by comparison. If it's similar, I won't hesitate to call it.

 

Edit: aaaand I can't edit the title; ah well

Edited by Jerebaldo10, 22 April 2014 - 03:58 AM.

[Jerebaldo10]

Alright, so at roughly 7:30p I had 75mg of Nuvigil..... .........for whatever reason it's been nothing like either bulk product, even factoring 1-3hr delayed metabolism into modafinil. By 8:00p it felt like ultralow dose of methylphenidate or dexamphetamine at first, and by that I mean it sucked: I felt humorless, more deliberate, more tired (?!), and a bit more downbeat. I figured that I discovered what the official product felt like, and that it was a pyrrhic victory since the same problems I had with phenethylamines would recur here....until an hour and a half later it didn't. Then, it began to feel like coffee's more mature older brother: upbeat, steady, better body\brain balance in stimulation. I'm thinking I can stretch this free month's worth out with a daily 37.5 mg. I guess I'll find out soon if Ceretropic's adrafinil resembles this, and also gague how the Nuvigil changes over time at steady state...

[ParMatrix]

I'm going to go ahead and step in here.  We verify every single product before it ever enters our inventory. We have an in house lab to verify the identity and purity of every product. We did not ship you Sulbutiamine. We have also tested SDFT's Adrafinil. We did this without them knowing and it's a near perfect match to our Adrafinil. Attached is a spectrum of Sulbutiamine compared to Adrafinil (Also included Noopept). Suspicion among the community is great, but armchair scientists also hurt the suppliers. The best way to verify the products quality and identity is through the use of a proper lab. I understand people being suspicious about what they are putting in their bodies. I urge you to ask for lab tests to ensure proper quality/identification.

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[Sanguine_Rogue]

Smart Drugs for Thought carries very pure and real Adrafinil. They are sending COA's from Third-parties out in every order now (at least the last two of mine came with them). I think it said something like 100.7% purity.

As to bulk sales, I know they have 4 bottle packs and I was able to get a pretty nice discount in the past when I ordered like 20 bottles of Piracetam. They won't sell bulk however, they told me they didn't have the necessary packaging for powder and also SDfT feels that it is easier for loose powder to lose potency or become "dirty" much easier than already encapsuled nootropics.

Hope this helps. Definitely don't want people thinking they can't find real and legitimate Adrafinil in the US when they most certainly can.

Edited by Sanguine_Rogue, 23 April 2014 - 10:38 PM.

[Jerebaldo10]

I wish that I could alter the title of this thread; the last thing I want to do is to kill the market for the one affordable US eugeroic... no one should have to be beholden to Teva's crushing monopoly for even US generics. For whatever reason I just don't respond to adrafinil vs armodafinil,  and it's unfortunate for people with my chemistry...I can only hope that modafinil at least works... 

 

Despite the fact that adra is a prodrug,  it won't necessarily behave like a delayed release moda... 

 

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Haha don't worry. I am not sure if one thread could kill a market, and if it could...then.... :'( I will pray that SDfT makes it out okay or I'm gonna need to start sourcing a new nootropics vendor LOL

It might be that the adrafinil isn't strong enough for you? I've never tried modafinil or armodafinil, so I can't tell you from a personal perspective what the overall potency difference is ( I want to say it's 2:1 Ad : Mod, but I have no clue). I think it's cool that SDfT aren't the only one's to have their Adrafinil checked thanks for that @ParMatrix as I've seen how easy someone can alter a doc or jpg with photoshop so one can never be too sure.

[ParMatrix]

Yeah it's no problem. It's more likely than not he's just a nonresponder. It happens. 

[ron45]

Smart Drugs for Thought carries very pure and real Adrafinil. They are sending COA's from Third-parties out in every order now (at least the last two of mine came with them). I think it said something like 100.7% purity.

As to bulk sales, I know they have 4 bottle packs and I was able to get a pretty nice discount in the past when I ordered like 20 bottles of Piracetam. They won't sell bulk however,

 

It's also possible, if not likely that they make more money doling out pills rather than pounds. Better for them, bad for everyone's bank account.

 

Ron

[ParMatrix]

The margins on encapsulated products are extreme compared to bulk powders yes.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

I'm sure they make a profit, like most companies that sell goods. The fact that encapsulated nootropics cost more seems understandable to me, at least. Since they likely have to purchase machines for capsuling/weighing/bottling/stickering/sealing (as you can see there is easily a handful of machines that they would require that a company weighing out powder into tubs isn't going to need).

So the "profit" margin difference could very easily be not a profit and more of a packaging and distribution cost adjustment. Afterall we have all likely sat for hours capsuling ourselves, and what an hour is valued to you could easily make the cost difference negligible (it is that way in my case).

Oh I forgot to mention the cost of capsules probably plays a role in the price too...

[Sciencyst]

COAs do not mean jack shit guys. Unless you are testing your own sample, you have no way of knowing if what they sent you is what they had tested for the COA.

I will take some form of spectral analysis anyday over a COA, although the same exact difficulty in knowing testing sample vs your sample applies. All of the most legitimate orders I have made came with NMR, GC/MS, or LC/MS readout, however.

Edited by katuskoti, 27 April 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Well I mean yea, that is true. But the fact that the companies shelled out money to have their products tested should count for something, if knowing what you have isn't baking soda isn't enough.

 

How do we know that the milk in the jug doesn't have the previous batches expiry date on it? lol Like I know exactly what you are saying, but I do not have time to go around second guessing and being eternally skeptical.

 

Quick question: Anyone ever ask for a COA from Advil?

 

 

Didn't think so.

[waitwhatthe]

Yeah, the title on this thread...

 

I've taken modafinil, armodafinil and adrafinil from some place on eBay (I forgot what vendor, not that it matters anymore) and nootropics depot. 600mg of their adrafinil is more effective than modafinil for me personally. 

 

And Sanguine, I'm on your side, but I don't really think that's comparable to this situation. There are tons of regulations that need to be met when getting a drug like Advil onto the market, but that isn't the case with nootropics. That's also why it's so harmful for the entire community for someone to come yelling that everything is fake. 

 

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Yea I was trying to think of something that would be somewhat comparable...figured advil would have to work simply because there isn't really too many things out that regulation wise are similar to nootropics. I'm sure this thread is getting plenty of visits, I just hope people take their time to read all the posts so they know there is in fact quality Adrafinil products being sold from within the USA.

[Sciencyst]

Well I mean yea, that is true. But the fact that the companies shelled out money to have their products tested should count for something, if knowing what you have isn't baking soda isn't enough.

 

How do we know that the milk in the jug doesn't have the previous batches expiry date on it? lol Like I know exactly what you are saying, but I do not have time to go around second guessing and being eternally skeptical.

 

Quick question: Anyone ever ask for a COA from Advil?

 

 

Didn't think so.

 

Touche. I was playing devil's advocate. I order from lots of places that only use COAs, and some places that dont at all. Your point is excellent haha. I guess we just put trust in vendors, and sometimes too much trust. Sometimes not enough.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Haha I wasn't trying to bash or attack what you said, because I do share the same level of skepticism. It's why I always urge people to do their research into a specific nootropic they're interested in or vendor, even if it's someone I recommend I still hope and ask for people to at least look over them before jumping into purchasing something.

 

I'm sure we've all be there and seen a friend with something cool that we think we want, only to buy it and be disappointed. Diligence is essential in any purchase, especially when it comes to food/medicine/supplements/health items, there should never be "knowing too much" about a vendor or product, especially if you're going to be putting it in your mouth and swallowing it.

 

[Sciencyst]

We are most definitely on the same page then. Healthy skepticism is crucial

[jroseland]

Adrafinil is kinda like Modafinil minus the sweats but really not worth trying. I’ve had this package of Adrafinil for nearly 2 years and I’ve stopped using it because it just doesn’t have the effect desired consistently (or at all). It’s probably nearing its expiration date so it’s about time for it to go into the trash! Never mind Adrafinil just use Modafinil, Rhodiola or Tyrosine if you're in need of an effective wakefulness agent.

[Kinesis]

I realize it’s been over three years since the opening post, but what appears to be high quality Adrafinil is currently available from reputable nootropics retailers. As jroseland notes in his colorful and informative review, it is truly some the foulest tasting stuff there is, easily competing with pramiracetam for that dubious distinction. Mixing just 50 mg in an ounce of warm coffee creates a beverage that tastes like it has already been drunk before and rejected. Chase immediately with straight coffee though, and it’s only transiently unpleasant.

I haven’t tried Modafinil because it’s prescription only in the US, but Adrafinil is available without prescription from nootropics houses. The following article presents a favorable scholarly review:

http://onlinelibrary...0100.x/abstract

...

Edited by Kinesis, 29 November 2017 - 05:41 AM.