19 replies to this topic

[newguy5]

I stumbled upon these 2 supplements by accident(I'll tell you how later).

 

The reason I want to have an honest discussion about this, is because I see a lot of topics concerning these 2 and I don't know what to think of it.

People are making topic after topic, some post research, some post anecdotal evidence that they work, some people have side effects, for some people they don't work etc...

It's hard to wade through all of them and understand how exactly these drugs work, how good they are, how they benefit us.

 

What I've read on the internet is that these 2 are miracle drugs, they supposedly cure any illness known to man and make you healthier in general.

They also supposedly cure cancer, which I didn't believe at first, I mean how can a pill or a mushroom cure cancer, that was the first time I heard of this.

And if they actually do cure cancer, why is this not known to the general population, why are more invasive and unhealthy methods used, that don't always work, to try and cure this disease?

 

It's hard to absorb all of it and I'm getting paranoia about it, especially since people are trying to market these on youtube and other sites and make money of it. I don't know what to think about this.

 

 

 

So the way I stumbled upon it is, my aunt who is 85 had a brain tumor, there was nothing the doctors could do about it and she would die in a couple of years. My aunt's daughter was not ready to give up and went to see a doctor who is more into alternative medicine and recommended that she take curcumin. I don't know for how long she took it but when my aunt went to the hospital and they did a scan on her it showed the brain tumor was gone, just like that.

 

I looked curcumin up and at the same time also stumbled upon reishi which apparently seems to work in the same way.

 

If these are miracle drugs, why are people not making a big deal out of this, people are talking about it like it's a nootropic, they make 1 post and then they leave the topic entirely, shouldn't there be an entire forum dedicated to this?

 

Basically can anyone tell me what this is all about because I don't understand it. 

Should I try these 2 products?

 

 

 

Also, my dog has a tumor as well, and my mother is going to try these pills on him, I'll keep the topic updated to see what happens.

 

 

[geo12the]

First, none of these things are miracle cures for every ailment. I recommend you use pub meb to research these substances:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

 

This is an NIH website that catalogs peer reviewed scientific papers.  If you search for curcumin as of today you will pull up 6582 papers and Reshi pulls up 582 papers. That should keep you busy for a while. Unfortunately most of the studies on curcumin are in animals and human cell lines. But some show promising effects and I know clinical trials are underway looking at curcumin and colon cancer and other conditions. With all of the papers you will be able to read the abstracts which are summaries. Some of the full papers are available free (open access), some are not. 

 

Lots of scientists are looking at these compounds, especially curcumin. But one issue is that natural products cannot be patented. Because of this, big pharmaceutical companies cannot make money on things like curcumin.  

 

I don't know very much about reishi, but I have read up a lot on curcumin. It's not a miracle cure but there is enough evidence that it has anti-inflammatory and potentially neuro-protective and other properties that I take curcumin supplements and mix turmeric into my dogs dinner every night. Studies show it has anti-tumor promperties, but every cancer is different so it will probably not be a miracle cure for every cancer.

 

Edited by geo12the, 29 April 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[newguy5]

Thanks, I'll check it out, at least it was a miracle cure for my aunt.

 

If I take both of these, which ones should I buy and where do I buy them?

[GoingPrimal]

They're both amazing, heavy-hitting, broad-spectrum and powerful substances, but again, not "miracle-cures", though thats awesome news for your aunt.

 

Does iHerb ship to where you live? They have good prices on many products. Jarrow, LEF, Doctor's Best and many others offer seemingly great curcumin products, though I haven't taken any of theirs yet. Look for a good hyrdo-ethanolic extract of Reishi, so that you're getting the water-soluble polysaccharides and the alcohol soluble triterpenes.

[joelcairo]

I looked curcumin up and at the same time also stumbled upon reishi which apparently seems to work in the same way.

 

These two substances are unrelated and work in totally different ways. However they both have well-documented effects against cancer, and some other medical conditions. Curcumin mainly disrupts inflammatory pro-cancer pathways, while reishi mainly enables activation of the immune system, but of course these are gross simplifications.

 

It's possible that one or the other could cause a brain tumor to regress, although there's a good chance your aunt was doing other things as well.

 

I don't know what you mean by an "honest" discussion, but neither of these is a miracle pill and it would be hard to find anyone who seriously asserts that they are. I would not take them in large doses if I were healthy. I would certainly not recommend that cancer patients rely on these in preference to established medical procedures. However both have a place alongside other fact-based therapies.

 

[newguy5]

They're both amazing, heavy-hitting, broad-spectrum and powerful substances, but again, not "miracle-cures", though thats awesome news for your aunt.

 

Does iHerb ship to where you live? They have good prices on many products. Jarrow, LEF, Doctor's Best and many others offer seemingly great curcumin products, though I haven't taken any of theirs yet. Look for a good hyrdo-ethanolic extract of Reishi, so that you're getting the water-soluble polysaccharides and the alcohol soluble triterpenes.

 

I live in Europe so I'd rather buy reishi from a european store or I will have to pay for customs.

 

So I should look for hyrdo-ethanolic extract of Reishi, so I'm getting the water-soluble polysaccharides and the alcohol soluble triterpenes? Anything else I should out for?

 

edit: Which brands on amazon are the best?

 

 

Edited by newguy5, 30 April 2014 - 03:19 PM.

[GoingPrimal]

Curcumin is poorly absorbed, so looking for a product that contains bioperine or shilajit to enhance absorption, or that is enhanced by binding the curcumin to a fatty acid (I think the brand name Meriva does this) would be wise. 

 

With Reishi there are a lot of factors to consider, but a good basic, dual-extracted product is a great and effective place to start. Make sure you're getting the fruiting body, not the mycelium, and if it isn't extracted at all, you're basically just using a fiber supplement, as nothing will be absorbed.

[newguy5]

Is this a good brand?

 

http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top

 

People seem happy from this one, there's a ton of others on amazon as well, which ones should work?

 

How about this, it seems to have the things you listed http://eu.lef.org/en/products/01708.

Edited by newguy5, 30 April 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[geo12the]

For curcumin I alternate these two:

 

Genceutic Naturals BCM-95 Curcumin Herbal Supplements, 250 mg,

 

 

Turmeric Force

[MiddleAged49]

For Reishi, I would recommend the following as being potent dual (hydroethanolic) extracts:

 

http://www.myconutri.com/reishi/

http://www.mushrooms...super-strength/

http://www.lef.org/V...om-Complex.html

 

Also, this one is good, but more expensive, made in Finland, you can feel a good kick from these as they are very concentrated (it would appear up to three times more concentrated than some of the above pills):

http://www.foursigma.../instant-reishi

 

and the video and information is very interesting to watch.

 

I have consumed all the above all they are all good. The first one is produced in the UK, so if you are after a European product that could be a good one to go for, as it would be sent out from the UK. The others I have bought from 'iherb' in the US and got them delivered to London, but I've stopped that now as I've been caught for customs and taxes the last few times. Unfortunately in the UK it's difficult to find high quality medicinal mushroom supplements in shops.

 

Just as an aside, this year Reishi has helped me kill off my allergies to cats, dust and pollen - I've been breathing in large amounts of ash pollen over the last few weeks (the UK has had high levels of this recently), and it seems pollen now just bounces off me. This time last year I was in serious trouble with eyes streaming and nose running and sneezing. I hope that this is a permanent change, so I will continue to eat Reishi forever. Hurrah for Reishi!

 

 

 

[newguy5]

Have a lot of allergies as well, another reason why I should try reishi I guess.

 

Before I saw your post I already ordered these:

 

http://www.hybridher...trated-extract/

 

I was also thinking of buying from this site: http://www.hyperionh...shroom-extract/

 

I read somewhere that these 2 sites had the best reishi. Could you tell me if there's a difference between these 2 and what the difference is with the ones you listed?

[newguy5]

Found this duanwood reishi as well

 

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B0038AXFVK

 

Can anyone confirm that this is the best reishi and all duanwood reishi's are the same?

[MiddleAged49]

The Hybrid Herbs and Hyperion Herbs products both look high quality. However, many Reishi extracts sold in powdered form (to mix in with smoothies, food etc) are, I believe, hot water-only extracts; they are not dual/hydroethanolic extracts, which means they don't have a large concentration of the bitter 'triterpenes' in them (the triterpenes are only poorly soluble in water, being mainly fat/alcohol soluble, so the hydroethanolic extracts pull more of these out). If you were to put these bitter, alcohol soluble compounds in these powder extracts then they would be unusable (try taking a dual-extracted reishi capsule apart and eating the powder, it's a horrific experience, have a glass of water handy if you do this).

 

However, the Hyperion Herbs powdered extract also contains 'cracked-cell Reishi spores', which are rich in triterpenes; these have probably been added in specifically to bring the triterpene concentration up. I don't think the Hybrid Herbs product does the same, I can't see anything about spores on their product information. But, either one is good, and what you could do is mix the powdered extract into drinks once a day and then take some dual-extracted pills at other times in the day (I dose twice a day), so you get your triterpenes one way or the other.

 

I'm not sure how the Four Sigma Foods Reishi 'instant beverage' product manages to taste good whilst still containing 2% triterpenes; maybe it's because it's only 2% (rather than 4% in some of the other pills I've used) and perhaps because of the added natural sweetener (Stevia) they've put in, and the mint, licorice etc. Either way, it's a good product.

 

The triterpenes are important as they have many functions; my understanding is they contain ganoderic acids that can have anti-cancer activity (cytotoxicity activity and apoptosis of certain cancer cells), help maintain good cholesterol and help to regulate blood pressure. And, for allergies, they inhibit histamine release, important for me. However, I get the impression that many of the water-soluble polysaccharides/beta-glucans can also do the same thing (e.g. certain beta-glucans can induce cell apoptosis), so whereas I, personally, feel more comfortable using dual extracted pills with a high triterpene concentration, I'm sure hot water-only powder extracts would be fine too. I would imagine that most of the usage of Reishi over the centuries in traditional chinese medicine has been through drinking Reishi tea, which effectively would be a water-only extract, and that seems to have worked out well for them.

 

The last link you posted was to a Ron Teeguarden Dragon Herbs product; I've never taken that one, but have used some of his other stuff; it's a full-spectrum extract containing triterpenes, although extracted in a different way, I think, than the usual hydroethanolic extraction process, but it has all the same stuff in. I think that one works out as being more expensive if you dose it as per the recommendations on the bottle (6 capsules a day), although I have read that some people only take 2 or 3 caps a day as it's of a high quality so you may not need as much. The reviews on iherb for this product are good, and his products are generally regarded as being better than most.

 

Most Duanwood Reishi should be grown the same way (i.e. grown on chopped down logs and cultivated in a poly-tunnel or greenhouse, and then watered using spring water rather than rain water), I believe it's left for five or six months before picking it, some producers might leave it to grow longer which theoretically would produce a higher quality product but would cost more. A lot of of Reishi products don't mention Duanwood on the label, which means they are probably grown in bags hanging in a cultivating room and/or using sawdust rather than logs; most people would say Duanwood is better, as it better recreates the natural growing environment of the Reishi.

 

This is all just from reading around, I'm not an expert so will stand corrected if anyone has any observations to make on the above.

 

 

 

 

[newguy5]

Alright thx for the answer, I'll have to test it out myself.

 

Does anyone know if you can combine it with st johns wort? I want to stop taking it and start reishi when it arrives but I know the reishi probably won't start working right away so I don't want to have this period where I don't take anything.

[MiddleAged49]

Not sure about the St. John's Wort, will leave that to someone more qualified to comment, but when you start Reishi, try 3 caps a day initially for a week/10 days to give it a head start, then perhaps level it out at twice a day (the dosage I've been using is 400mg or 500mg per cap, depending on which bottle is nearest). That's what the traditional chinese medicine practitioner advised me anyway. Your nose might dry out a bit if you take too much, so if that happens and is a problem, just back off a bit. For me, as it helps kill my allergies, I can live with that for now. Also, if you are taking anything else which reduces blood pressure, then perhaps read into it a bit more, as Reishi does the same thing and caution is recommended sometimes.

 

If you are using the powder from Hybrid Herbs, I would follow their dosage recommendations as per the packaging and just increase it a bit for the first week or so. Take it with Vitamin C, it apparently helps with breaking down the water soluble polysaccharide molecules into smaller sizes that are more readily absorbed. Other recommendations I follow are to take it on an empty stomach and to take with just a little bit of fat/oil (either a small spoonful of extra virgin raw coconut oil, or a small spoonful of peanut butter).

[newguy5]

thanks

[meth_use_lah]

If you still want to try the effects of triterpenes, you could soak some of your powder in the strongest possible alcohol you can get your hands on for a couple of weeks-months, and filter it through a cheesecloth. Although you wouldn't know what % of triterpenes that tincture would contain.

 

The LEF product seemed pretty impressive although pricey, go check the forests come autumn you might be in luck! I found a reishi infested tree last year although some beast (or moron) had knocked the beautiful fruiting body to the ground, however it'll grow a new fruiting body this year if I'm in luck and the tree is not completely void of nutrition!

 

 

 

Edited by meth_use_lah, 02 May 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[newguy5]

Alright the powder arrived, what do I mix this in? I tried orange juice and soda, it tastes like crap. Think I'm gonna buy some tablets.

[newguy5]

Also another question, how long until I see the effects from reishi?

[MiddleAged49]

Not sure about what to mix it in, have only ever done pills.

 

As for the effects, there will be different timescales. Cognitively, I don't really feel any different on reishi unless I take a high dose, then I may feel a little calmer, relaxed, wiser, difficult to explain, but it's very subtle. But it may have short to medium-term beneits on state of mind that go un-noticed because of the subtlety. If you were to stop taking it after a few months it's possible that you would notice the difference straight away. However, you may be one of the people that feel a much greater and obvious effect with it more quickly - it depends on your original state of mind I would think.

 

I think the triterpenes will kick in fairly quickly to help with reducing allergies, and then with a longer passage of time the polysaccharides will help to rebalance the immune system more fundamentally, which will help to vastly reduce allergies and improve general health. From what I've read about traditional chinese medicine, reishi may take a couple of years before it reaches it full effect, firstly analysing what's out of balance in your body, or not working correctly, and then correcting it over time. As it's a natural remedy rather than a prescription drug, it will take time to do this.

 

I've been taking it since October of last year, the only differences I feel so far are the elimination of allergies, and my blood pressure has reduced slightly, into the normal range, whereas before it was slightly elevated. But this latter point could be due to something else.