390 replies to this topic

[HappyShoe]

http://tht.co/9-meth...-carboline.html

http://onlinelibrary...10.06725.x/full

Very curious. Trying to find dosages used, and wondering how one would go about using this if it's practical.
A bit cautious because carbolines tend to be neurotoxics, specifically for dopamine producing neurons.

Discussion?

[normalizing]

never heard of this one but the site you posted, very interesting. it contains a lot of regularly asked about where to buy research chems on this forum. im interested to finally see people order them from this site and report of quality....

[NeuroNootropic]

Another article: 

β-carbolines are potential endogenous and exogenous neurotoxins that may contribute to the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease (PD). 9-methyl-β-carboline exhibits multimodal effects that could be beneficial in the treatment of PD. It shows stimulatory effects to dopaminergic neurons by increasing the expression of tyrosine hydroxylase and its transcription factors in pre-existing dopa decarboxylase immunoreactive neurons. Furthermore, 9-methyl-β-carboline has emerged as a substance with the rare property of a protective and regenerative/restorative potential for dopaminergic neurons by inducing gene expression of several neurotrophic factors and decreasing apoptotic cell signals. It reduces protein levels of α-synuclein and inhibits monoamine oxidase A and B. Finally, 9-methyl-β-carboline acts on multiple targets in the inflammatory cascade by inhibiting the proliferation of microglia, by decreasing chemotactic cytokines and by creating an anti-inflammatory environment in the CNS. This article summarizes our current knowledge of 9-methyl-carboline and discusses its potential role as a new drug for the treatment of PD.

→ source (external link)

 

This is a very interesting compound. Anyone have any more information on it?

[normalizing]

^ its so vague, hardly anything substantial about it. only way is to trial it yourself and report :s

[tjcbs]

Very nice find. Can't find any dosage info yet. 

You would really have to trust that they did the synthesis correctly, I would think. Otherwise you might get PD in a jar??

 

I came across this choice quote: 

 In addition, it stimulated the gene expression of the important dopaminergic neurotrophic factors sonic hedgehog (Shh), 

 

http://onlinelibrary...10.06725.x/full

 

[tjcbs]

The prospect of new dopaminergic neurons hasn't enticed anyone? 

[mandaryn]

Tht.co appears to be gone for good. Increased dopamine receptor density would solve so many problems for me, but it looks like the only source for this research chem has went the way of the dodo.

[tjcbs]

Nope, it's back , go for it

[noot_in_the_sky]

I'm also intrested in neurogensis of dopamine receptors, but this compound & company are too new, specialy if I could get PD.

 

They do however have some very intresting stuff.  If you are buying try a compound your already familiar with to see at least they has similar effects or if it is fake.

 

If you order from them let us know how it went. 

[normalizing]

Nope, it's back , go for it

 

its not back. it closed near end of june claiming to reopen on 14th july, then it was reclosed claiming it will reopen on 21st. now, its past due date and it seems shady it will reopen. i thought the site look strange from the begining tho. cheap domain, bad design, i suspect they had legal problems hence closing it for a while now.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Here is something strange, the page is up, but you can't go straight into it by just typing www.tht.co

 

I must agree all this seem shady.

[agora]

It's completely up now. How has this forum not obsessed over this chemical? Who couldn't use some more dopaminergic neurons (besides schizophrenics). I want to try it, but I'm just not sure what the dosage in a human would be.

[Milkyway]

If anyone tries this and experiences noticeable help with depression and anxiety please inform me.  Specifically I am trying to address depression and anxiety associated or aggravated by long term S.S.R.I. use to treat what was congenital depression.  So if anyone is in the same boat and experiences anything I would like to hear about it.

[serp777]

I wonder how this would work in conjunction with illicit substances like MDMA? Perhaps this type of thing would increase the effects of MDMA or reduce negative side effects, assuming the combined neurotoxicity doesn't fry your brain?

[medicineman]

why doesn't the.co mention how much of whatever you want to buy you'll be getting? I would be interested in this, but I'd like to know how much I'll be getting for the price.

[Mightymatt420]

Tht.co is sketchy, you can access the through another site called nprfacility, but it doesn't list all their products and is even more sketchy. Anyone know whats up?

[medicineman]

so we don't know what the estimated human dose is?

[Metagene]

so we don't know what the estimated human dose is?

https://docs.google....sp=docslist_api

Stimulating effects on learning and memory as assessed using several learning tasks like habituation to a new environment, passive avoidance, etc. (see Venault and Chapouthier 2007 for review). The promnestic effect of this compound was demonstrated at low doses (0.3 mg/kg). Higher doses of methyl-b-carboline- 3-carboxylate showed anxiogenic and convulsive effects (1.0 and 10 mg/kg, respectively), both supposed to be maintained via GABAA receptor complex. Interestingly, opposite effects of the same agent at different doses (usually, detrimental at high doses vs. beneficial at low doses) seem to be quite common for different classes of drugs affecting brain function. For example, Assaf et al. (2011) have recently shown protective effects of tetrahydrocannabinol at a low dose against penthylenetetrazole-induced cognitive deficit,contrasting with cognitive impairments induced by this cannabinoid at higher doses.

Someone who is not me might want to do the math.

Edited by Metagene, 27 July 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[Metagene]

Whelp that might not help much. Sorry guys.

[medicineman]

ok. so it can induce convulsions by antagonizing gaba. this seems like a great compound, but the fact that it is a beta Carboline scares me a bit. anyone tried it out yet?

[Metagene]

ok. so it can induce convulsions by antagonizing gaba. this seems like a great compound, but the fact that it is a beta Carboline scares me a bit. anyone tried it out yet?

That's the wrong compound sorry. In the animal model of Parkinson's diease study the dosage was 0.105 mg/kg per day but just give me a minute to check everything out.

[Metagene]

It does mention toxicity in vitro. Here's the paper anyway.

https://docs.google....sp=docslist_api

[Flex]

Tht is back !

 

@ Metagene

I guess You are reffering to the 80% increase of the Mitochondrial complex 1.

It sounded to me also harmful, but after reading again:

... activity of complex 1 in mitochondria was increased by 80%, in rats treated with 9-METHYL-β-CARBOLINE and MPP+      

 

compared to MPP+ and Saline and to sham-operated rats

 

I saw that it was the effect of the 9-me-Bc and not of MPP+

 

Edit: I´ve found this regarding the Complex 1

 

Mitochondrial complex I inhibitor rotenone induces apoptosis through enhancing mitochondrial reactive oxygen species production.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12496265

----------

I´ve searched for the dose, but could not find out whether they used Mice or Rats.

Here´s how You calclulate it:

Human K_m = 37
Mouse K_m = 3
Rat K_m = 6

HUMAN EQUIVALENT DOSE (HED) = Ammount used in the Study  x [3 / 37] = 0.405 mg/kg

 

See ScienceGuys Post:

http://www.longecity...nimal-to-human/

---------

Lets use the 0.105 mg/Kg for Mouse to Human:

 

0.105mg/kg x (3/37) = 0.0085135 mg/kg x 80 kg ( <--- adding now the average human weight of 80 kg) = 0.681081 mg

 

Rat to Human:

0.105mg/kg x (6/37) = 0.017027 mg/kg x 80Kg = 1.36216 mg

 

Btw, for those form Germany:

You can buy/request the 9-METHYL-β-CARBOLINE as well the 7,8 dihydroxyflavone

Here:

http://www.labchem.de/index.php

http://www.s3-chemicals.de

Edited by Flex, 29 July 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[chris106]

This is getting fairly interesting

Also, I am from Germany but WOW - does LabChem have the ugliest most sketchy looking website ever :D

(Not saying they aren't legit, but they really should hire a webdesigner)

Edited by chris106, 29 July 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[Metagene]

Tht is back !

 

@ Metagene

I guess You are reffering to the 80% increase of the Mitochondrial complex 1.

It sounded to me also harmful, but after reading again:

... activity of complex 1 in mitochondria was increased by 80%, in rats treated with 9-METHYL-β-CARBOLINE and MPP+      

 

compared to MPP+ and Saline and to sham-operated rats

 

I saw that it was the effect of the 9-me-Bc and not of MPP+

 

Edit: I´ve found this regarding the Complex 1

 

Mitochondrial complex I inhibitor rotenone induces apoptosis through enhancing mitochondrial reactive oxygen species production.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12496265

----------

I´ve searched for the dose, but could not find out whether they used Mice or Rats.

Here´s how You calclulate it:

Human K_m = 37
Mouse K_m = 3
Rat K_m = 6

HUMAN EQUIVALENT DOSE (HED) = Ammount used in the Study  x [3 / 37] = 0.405 mg/kg

 

See ScienceGuys Post:

http://www.longecity...nimal-to-human/

---------

Lets use the 0.105 mg/Kg for Mouse to Human:

 

0.105mg/kg x (3/37) = 0.0085135 mg/kg x 80 kg ( <--- adding now the average human weight of 80 kg) = 0.681081 mg

 

Rat to Human:

0.105mg/kg x (6/37) = 0.017027 mg/kg x 80Kg = 1.36216 mg

 

Btw, for those form Germany:

You can buy/request the 9-METHYL-β-CARBOLINE as well the 7,8 dihydroxyflavone

Here:

http://www.labchem.de/index.php

http://www.s3-chemicals.de

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay thanks. This is what I was referring to actually:

 

In our experiments, the mesencephalic culture was exposed to 9-me-BC for 48 h (25 to 100 μM; higher concentrations 

the mesencephalic culture was exposed to were toxic).

 

 

 

I forgot the administration method was also intraperitoneal so that number doesn't help us much.

 

Edited by Metagene, 29 July 2014 - 07:06 PM.

[Flex]

Hmm, Mol mass calculations.

I did this only one time, but cant say whether this data is sufficient nor if I could do this.

Will post later or tomorrow.

 

[Reformed-Redan]

This looks like a great addon to amp tolerance reduction. 

[Metagene]

This looks like a great addon to amp tolerance reduction. 

 

That might be a low bar. 

 

I guess it's going to be tomorrow before I can take a test dosage. I found an example for a oral formulation consisting of 12.5mg of 9-methyl-β-carboline and 50mg so I'll set 50mg as the upper limit until we learn more.

[Metagene]

Here it is! I took a 50mg dose about an hour ago no ill effects.

 

I will have to post pics later.

Edited by Metagene, 30 July 2014 - 07:30 PM.

[Flex]

Cool    Please keep me updated if You notice anything