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What does Phenibut withdrawal feel like?

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#1 Pallas

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:31 PM


Hi,

So I have been taking 1g of phenibut to help my anxiety and sleep problems since I have exams in a week.

 

I noted that I had some trouble falling asleep prior to phenibut, and upon taking 1g, I am guaranteed to have a great night sleep with a afterglow the following day. However, the following day(s) I have trouble sleeping again, and feel slightly suicidal because I didn't get sleep, and should have used that time more productively rather than laying there in bed trying to fall asleep.

 

Anyone else experience this possible withdrawal/rebound effect at these doses? 1g once a week I thought was pretty safe tolerance wise. 

 

Peace,

Pallas



#2 The Brain

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:36 PM

If you feel suicidal because you weren't productive then you shouldn't be worrying about anything except seeing a medical professional.

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#3 Galaxyshock

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:53 PM

Sense of "primal fear" is something that tends to stand out in Phenibut withdrawal. Get anything GABAergic to make it smoother if it gets very uncomfortable. Even big amounts of chamomile tea will do.



#4 factsmachine

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 10:06 PM

Definitely primal fear feeling. And it seems that sleep becomes extremely shallow.
I used it daily for weeks. When I stopped cold turkey I got hallucinations, didn't sleep for a couple days, then gave up and did a taper. Even the taper was painful.
Tolerance builds too fast anyways. once every other week if you can manage.

 



#5 Pallas

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:18 PM

Did the primal fear feeling include a increased sensitivity to loud sounds? I.e car noises?



#6 Galaxyshock

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 09:24 AM

Did the primal fear feeling include a increased sensitivity to loud sounds? I.e car noises?

 

I find that there's a fight-or-flight reaction so yes possibly increased sensitivity to everything and I notice my peripheral vision becomes more apparent, I think the autonomic nervous system gets hyperwired preparing for possible threats. If you recognize it's just the nervous system doing its thing, it helps.



#7 pesky

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 04:53 AM

Pbut WD varies with dose, in my experience. I started with a clean system, free of OTC and any other substance use for several months, including alcohol, so I was pretty excited to give Pbut a try for anti-anxiety, insomnia and a general bad case of nerves all-in-all, mostly due to the lack of sleep. The fact that Pbut does a workout on the GABA-b (primary) and GABA-a receptors has to be taken into consideration. Any substance that can cross the blood brain barrier is serious.

Over the course of three months, I started with 500mg and increased that incrimentally weekly by 500mg (500mg, 1 gram, 1.5 grams...) up to 5 grams. I used pure bulk powder and weighed it out. I am a slow metabolizer, and it took my body three hours, almost to the minute, every dose, to kick in. Pbut has a half life of 5 hours; half life simply helps give me an idea of when to anticipate peak, though I read reports from other users that it has lingering effects on both body and mind for days (depending on dose - and, it did for me too, especially with moderate to higher doses, 2 grams+).

I took most of my doses during the day, on the weekend, so I had two days to evaluate and enjoy without added stress of work. I did not mix Pbut with any other substance, not even caffeine.

Low doses of 500mg to 1.5 grams had no WD symptoms. Driving was normal. I did try my 1 gram dose two weeks in a row - once during the day and once before bed. Daytime use gave me a light anti anxiety feel (like 1/4 of a Xanax), and night use just made me feel comfortable in bed quicker, but no sleep changes. No stimulatory sensation, just kinda chill. I could work if needed. Music was especially fun to listen to. I could have worked out, but did not want to break the chill feel with a cardio/ lifting session. A walk would have been okay. Nothing noticeable the next day other than waking up very thirsty. Later on, I learned that Pbut is dehydrating.

Moderate doses of 2 grams to 3 grams, during the day, induced a 12 hour nap, then I woke up very thirsty. Water or a non-caffeinated soda were best for me and a light snack, for blood sugar. Then, it was back to sleep. No driving. Walking around was tiresome, watching TV gave me a headache, moving my head made me dizzy, so going back to sleep was the best option. I also notice I prefered warmth, even on a summer day, I slept under blankets and maintained heater temp in my room at 84 degrees, when normally the body prefers cooler sleeping temps. Again, blood brain barrier substances are not to be taken lightly. The next day, I woke with an afterglow - good GABA-GABA mood. The effects lasted about 24 hours from kick-in time for me, so by mid afternoon, the following day after dose day, I noticed a slip into my "normal" thought pattern of thinking about anxiety, without anxiety actually coming to fruition. The fact that the thought manifested told me the Pbut had been metabolized out of my body and that my brain was working to revert its less-than optimal GABA receptors. Again, rehydration was important. I also noticed that a lingering peripheral numbness from my forehead down through the tip of my nose, lips and half of my tongue was present throughout the day, even hours after the afterglow wore off. Food tasted bland. Exercise was of no interest. Sleep came natural and I remember dreaming vividly, even though I slept for a good 21 hours the day before.

Maximum doses of 3.5 grams to 5 grams include symptoms of all of the above, but in multitude strength. I made the mistake of thinking two days would be enough for my 5 gram experiment dose, and I underestimated Pbut. Five grams gave me major dehydration for several days, and I drank water and craved sugary drinks (glucose energy is quick for brain energy). I had uncontrolled sleep for three days of 12 hour+ stints of being dead to the world (dose day without choice, day 2 by choice and day 3 just because it felt so damn good to sleep and be lazy), dizzy spells if I got up or tried to walk too long, nausea if I ate more than a snack size amount of food, and after three days, I woke up with a feeling of hopelessness and depression instead of the blissful afterglow I felt on moderate doses. 3.5 grams to 4.5 grams were tolerable, with similar WD symptoms to my 5 gram experience, without profound depression. The depression was more of an afterthought, not as much of a feeling, if that makes sense. I was able to move on with my day with the thoughts of depression. Five grams was my max. The depression after 5 grams was a weight that made me feel unmoveable, like a brick and mortar depression building. I will not go there again. The depressive feeling stayed for 3 days, so in total, including the dose day, 5 grams had 6 days of lasting effect on me that was all-in-all, uncontrollable and unpleasant.

I am glad I ramped up my usage. It was well worth the time to do it. Pbut appears to be very dependant on the individual. My reactions will likely differ from someone else.

#8 Pallas

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:02 AM

"Induced a 12 hour nap" That's a long ass nap! haha.

Thanks for sharing your experience,you mentioned that " Daytime use gave me a light anti anxiety feel (like 1/4 of a Xanax)," Did you socially interact with people whilst under the influence? If so, did you find any improvement?
 



#9 deeptrance

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 12:04 AM

I'm a living experiment of long-term chronic phenibut use. I've been taking it daily for nearly 3 years! For the first year, I took between 300 and 500 mg/day, and since then my usage has slowly climbed to an average of between 1.5 and 2 grams/day. I have a firm upper limit set now of 2 grams, so I won't take more even on rare occasion.

 

My only experiences of withdrawal have been preliminary, and have come about due to my forgetting to take pb. Typically I take most of a day's dosing with breakfast because I like the effect it has on me when I'm awake and I want the prime benefits to be there for me during the day. So, what has happened several times is that I forget to take pb all day, and then by late afternoon I will be feeling pretty bad, agitated and anxious, angry, nervous, and fidgety. Also, extremely wide awake but not in a good way. I can tell that it would be very hard to sleep that night if I didn't eventually take more pb.

 

So, I know I'm extremely dependent on phenibut, and I'm fine with that because I haven't increased the dosage in more than 6 months, and it doesn't seem to have any negative side effects but lots of positive ones. It's cheap. 

 

I don't recommend for anyone else to do what I'm doing, I'm only reporting my experience for general info. What I dislike most about my habit is that I can never experience the best effects of phenibut because I use it too often and am habituated to it. I've given it to a few people who never had it before, and I always dose them on the high side so that they'll experience the magic of it. I enjoy hearing about their phenibut noob experiences. None of them have taken up the habit, and that's a cool thing about this substance --- it doesn't create a craving to re-dose because its effects are so latent and the half-life and lingering effects are both long. It only becomes a problem when someone intentionally consumes it on a regular basis, as I'm doing. And I have no intention of ever going through the full nightmare of withdrawal, so I'll continue taking it as long as it's available.

 

By the way, if there are any concerns about health effects of prolonged use then my situation suggests that it's a very safe chemical. All of my health parameters are excellent, and I'm 58 and don't get enough exercise. 


Edited by deeptrance, 11 November 2014 - 12:06 AM.


#10 Pallas

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 10:31 PM

I'm a living experiment of long-term chronic phenibut use. I've been taking it daily for nearly 3 years! For the first year, I took between 300 and 500 mg/day, and since then my usage has slowly climbed to an average of between 1.5 and 2 grams/day. I have a firm upper limit set now of 2 grams, so I won't take more even on rare occasion.

 

My only experiences of withdrawal have been preliminary, and have come about due to my forgetting to take pb. Typically I take most of a day's dosing with breakfast because I like the effect it has on me when I'm awake and I want the prime benefits to be there for me during the day. So, what has happened several times is that I forget to take pb all day, and then by late afternoon I will be feeling pretty bad, agitated and anxious, angry, nervous, and fidgety. Also, extremely wide awake but not in a good way. I can tell that it would be very hard to sleep that night if I didn't eventually take more pb.

 

So, I know I'm extremely dependent on phenibut, and I'm fine with that because I haven't increased the dosage in more than 6 months, and it doesn't seem to have any negative side effects but lots of positive ones. It's cheap. 

 

I don't recommend for anyone else to do what I'm doing, I'm only reporting my experience for general info. What I dislike most about my habit is that I can never experience the best effects of phenibut because I use it too often and am habituated to it. I've given it to a few people who never had it before, and I always dose them on the high side so that they'll experience the magic of it. I enjoy hearing about their phenibut noob experiences. None of them have taken up the habit, and that's a cool thing about this substance --- it doesn't create a craving to re-dose because its effects are so latent and the half-life and lingering effects are both long. It only becomes a problem when someone intentionally consumes it on a regular basis, as I'm doing. And I have no intention of ever going through the full nightmare of withdrawal, so I'll continue taking it as long as it's available.

 

By the way, if there are any concerns about health effects of prolonged use then my situation suggests that it's a very safe chemical. All of my health parameters are excellent, and I'm 58 and don't get enough exercise. 

 

Thanks for your experience input, I personally thing phenibut is better than ethanol if people are using that as a sedative/social lubricant.

 

Did you find that any impairments in cognition through your chronic usage? I.e impaired shortterm,recall or learning? 



#11 factsmachine

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:02 AM

very very interesting.
highest dose I have tried was about 1.5 grams primaforce brand. I noticed a low blood sugar feeling, tired, dry eyes, definite need for water constantly. feeling cold. weird feeling of loving everybody, wanting to be very close to people.

I think I went through phenbut withdrawal the last week. still trouble sleeping.
at a dose of 1.2 grams (mine and my friends standard dose) we notice a good tired feeling without relaxed muscles. strange, normally muscle relaxation that is typical with things that affect gaba. in fact my muscles feel tight on phenibut. baclofen is a muscle relaxer but doesn't have that good feeling like phenbut.
the day after dosing 1.2 grams I feel very clear headed and groggy at first. but also almost an anxiety like feeling. at 3 days I feel subtle negative effects that I can't put words to.

phenbut makes you last FOREVER in bed. take it before sex. you finish when you decide, amazing.

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#12 deeptrance

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 05:31 AM

Thanks for your experience input, I personally thing phenibut is better than ethanol if people are using that as a sedative/social lubricant.

 

Did you find that any impairments in cognition through your chronic usage? I.e impaired shortterm,recall or learning? 

 

 

I've never experienced anything impairing on phenibut, but I've never used it high enough doses to cause that sort of thing. But I'm a poor barometer for any herb or supplement, because I also use certain substances that overwhelm the effects of everything else, and these "certain substances" likely cause some problems with cognition and memory. In fact, I think that my use of herbs and supplements has greatly helped to protect me from the damage that may have occurred due to my idiotic behavior. I should be in MUCH worse shape than I am!

 

I have a number of friends who have good diets, exercise habits, and drug-free lifestyles, and who have also taken phenibut. All of them have experienced positive effects on just about every imaginable parameter of mental well being. I'm speaking here of acute effects only, not long-term effects. 







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